Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[nonesuche]

If Joran did, in fact, turn the body over to an individual to dispose of without him present, bet your life that it was someone very, very important and trustworthy to him. This clearly implies Paulus' involvement. He has known him his whole life. Joran has trained his own mind into never using the name Paulus in any coversation, ever, regarding Natalee's disappearance. This was a very important job - to dispose of a dead body so that it never resurfaced ever again. A half-ass job would have very negative consequences. It had to be done right and done on the first attempt.

In his tapings, he refers to this person as someone who took out tourists on banana boats, etc. This would lead me to believe that it was Steve Croes. I just cannot see Paulus and Steve Croes on a boat together in the middle of the night, though. However, I do not rule out, entirely, Koen, Lorenzo, or an unknown person, either.

I can completely appreciate comments that do not place them on the beach at all. Joran lives in Aruba. Sex on the beach may not be the coziest of spots for him. An apartment, or his apartment, may have been used more frequently in times past, unless the beach was the only best option, as each scenario evolved differently. If the expiration of Natalee did not take place on the beach, well....... open the books back up. Lots of other scenarios can, again, be plausibly discussed. New concrete, furniture truck, rave parties, trailing white car, Kalpoe role(s), multiple burial sites, and on and on and on.

There are still unanswered questions in my mind, for sure. If you choose to believe that the beach was used, then the theory simplifies, less characters are involved, and dots seem to connect better. Date-rape type drug administered on Natalee, Natalee died, Natalee was taken out to sea, then justice was obstructed at every opportunity. Intentional murder has become less and less a possibility for me lately. I do not rule it out completely, but it seems less likely.

I do feel confident that Paulus did not get a full night of sleep that evening. Paulus told the truth when he said he would do anything to protect his son. Even if he, too, committed crimes in order to help his son.

I think that some of the various stuff uncovered, while searching for the truth, does exist on the island (rave parties, lions den, etc.) but did not come into play on this night.

Deepak and Satish, as posted, do owe Joran a thank you card, at the very least. He has basically given them a "get out of jail card." It is obvious that JPK2 all seek to profit from their experience in this ordeal.

Watch for this... Lawyers will argue that confession, under influence of drugs, is not admissable.  They will challenge legality of recordings. All the while, Joran will say he lied (and look like a bigger liar in the process.)

It is sad, and shows lack of experience with such a case, that ALE/Hans Mos have waited for the airing of the show so as to test public opinion. Public opinion will trump their own abilities to determine value in the recordings. Reaction will also determine which items need addressing, which items need spinning, and which items need to be left alone.

Buckshot -

Do you remember in Greta's interview how Joran stated his biggest concern was what this had done to his father? Something to that effect.........within that statement lies the truth. Yes Paulus covered for him and likely at the very least, orchestrated the disposal of Natalee whether deceased or alive at that time. So it's all the worse for an attorney allowed to be a sometime judge had so little respect for human life he did not take her to the hospital?

It doesn't get much worse than that, I agree also that Croes was likely used to ferry her out and whether Paulus and Joran were on that boat at that time, the very fact that they sent her out to sea without any medical examination makes them ALL murderers.

[vzzzbx]

I love how Joran is adamant about never telling this guy's name and then the next thing you know he tells it (even if he was lying about the name). Of course, with everything else he's done, why would anyone expect him to keep his word about something like that?

For a moment he seemed sincere when he said he would take the name to his grave. And lying about the name the next day, he may have stuck to his guns. (Not to rat out his father

[Rosetta]

Hello everyone I', new over here..
But first let me tell you this about Peter R de Vries.
I don't like the guy at all, he hired a guy from aruba
who lives also in the Netherlands and Payed him 25.000
euro's and that is 80.000 dollars to follow and make recordings
and video only for his TV show. In our Law its forbidden to
do so, and Peter R de Vries, even sell Joran to CBS.
No Judge even ask him to do so, 6 month's Peter R de Vries
did so..and of cause a young guy like Joran want's to look
more then he exualy is..but Joran told before that it was stuppid
but what he told the guy is nog true. I Look for that youtube
video's and that seems more to the order then this.
P R d V..risc a jail tour of 2 years with this.
And Beth Holloway is smiling in her hand
 Those People on the youtube video are real!!!
I Believe them!!!
http://nl.youtube.com/user/thethruth007

BANNED

[SunnyinTX]

Taco just got nailed on the "Morning Show with Mike and Juliet."

I'm cutting back flips at how they went directly for Taco. Juliet asked him if he was dropping JVDS.

"I'm not defending the character of Joran, I am defending the evidence that he had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance."

He still don't get it!

JusticeDawg

tacopenis is continually being introduced as joran's attorney...why doesn't one of these reporter ask him how he can be his attorney when he is not able to practice law in aruba??? since there are no longer any cases in the US, how can he be 'his attorney'?  who is paying him? and for what? and why? was he not hired only to defend him in the US? 

[JodyO]

Also, if it's true that Joran was told by the person who helped him to "do normal things" like go home and download porn on the computer, and go to school the next day, that person had to be somewhat smart about legal matters and how things would look after the fact. I just can't see that piece of advice coming from Steve Croes (not to rule him out completely--he could have driven the boat), but I can see it coming from Paulus.

When Joran said this, I got that feeling too. It sounded very much like something a father would say to his son. This was the vibe I got from the way Joran said it, the look in his eyes. He seemed to be talking about his father. But this is just my gut feeling. Also when Patrick said that this person has a "heart of gold" to help Joran like that, Joran seemed touched. That also came across to me like he was thinking of his dad.

I think you are correct in thinking PvdS was who he called and who made the arrangements. If he had called some kid with a boat who dumped her over the side a mile or so out from the Marriott, her body either would have been washed up on the beach the next day, or somebody would have seen pieces of her while boating, water skiing, snorkeling, etc.

[vzzzbx]

Hello everyone I', new over here..
But first let me tell you this about Peter R de Vries.
I don't like the guy at all, he hired a guy from aruba
who lives also in the Netherlands and Payed him 25.000
euro's and that is 80.000 dollars to follow and make recordings
and video only for his TV show. In our Law its forbidden to
do so, and Peter R de Vries, even sell Joran to CBS.
No Judge even ask him to do so, 6 month's Peter R de Vries
did so..and of cause a young guy like Joran want's to look
more then he exualy is..but Joran told before that it was stuppid
but what he told the guy is nog true. I Look for that youtube
video's and that seems more to the order then this.
P R d V..risc a jail tour of 2 years with this.
And Beth Holloway is smiling in her hand
 Those People on the youtube video are real!!!
I Believe them!!!
http://nl.youtube.com/user/thethruth007

First of all, 25000 euros is $37000. And how is it illegal to do undercover operations like this and pay someone as an informer? I presume you talk about Dutch law? Please tell me where you get this knowledge? Peter R de Vries has done a lot of undercover operations like this to unveil misdoings.

[BlueKYGirl]

Also, if it's true that Joran was told by the person who helped him to "do normal things" like go home and download porn on the computer, and go to school the next day, that person had to be somewhat smart about legal matters and how things would look after the fact. I just can't see that piece of advice coming from Steve Croes (not to rule him out completely--he could have driven the boat), but I can see it coming from Paulus.

When Joran said this, I got that feeling too. It sounded very much like something a father would say to his son. This was the vibe I got from the way Joran said it, the look in his eyes. He seemed to be talking about his father. But this is just my gut feeling. Also when Patrick said that this person has a "heart of gold" to help Joran like that, Joran seemed touched. That also came across to me like he was thinking of his dad.

And Joran's actions after the fact wouldn't have been nearly so calculated (as he admitted they were).
I think you are correct in thinking PvdS was who he called and who made the arrangements. If he had called some kid with a boat who dumped her over the side a mile or so out from the Marriott, her body either would have been washed up on the beach the next day, or somebody would have seen pieces of her while boating, water skiing, snorkeling, etc.

[klaasend]

ROSETTA - HAS BEEN BANNED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THAT HERE

[vzzzbx]

tacopenis is continually being introduced as joran's attorney...why doesn't one of these reporter ask him how he can be his attorney when he is not able to practice law in aruba??? since there are no longer any cases in the US, how can he be 'his attorney'?  who is paying him? and for what? and why? was he not hired only to defend him in the US?  [/b]

You're right. I think he mostly called his attorney in the US and by US media. Joran has a Dutch attorney Ariean de Bie.

_If_ Joran would be so stupid to go to the US again, Tacoguy would be his attorney again I guess.

[blah]

duh moment here...why did Taco say the Aruban Coast Guard looked at that pay phone??????

I thought that was strange too. Why would the Coast Guard be investigating phone activity?

Not only that but WHY WOULD THEY BE TELLING TACO WHAT THEY DID OR DIDNT FIND????

[chelebele]

wow Klaas, you're on the ball this morning! Great job...Like a dummy, I clicked on the youtube link rosetta put up. It was a couple of weirdos talking in circles about nothing just to get on tv. Don't bother looking at it.

[Observer]

Taco just got nailed on the "Morning Show with Mike and Juliet."

I'm cutting back flips at how they went directly for Taco. Juliet asked him if he was dropping JVDS.

"I'm not defending the character of Joran, I am defending the evidence that he had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance."

He still don't get it!

JusticeDawg

Welcome to SM,JD and VZZZ 

[Destiny]

somebody is going to be dead very soon

who it is ??

i have no idea

but someone involved in this is going to end up dead very soon

yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss...

[Bearlyhere]

JOE T. from GMA this morning

GMA:

Joining us now is Joran van der Sloot's attorney, Joseph Tacopina, to get this side of the story. Thank you Joe for being here.

<snip>

No one's asking at this point, certainly I'm not asking anyone to believe Joran, or any of his statements. Clearly his credibility is zero, but look separately, look independently at what he's saying are the facts in this case, the evidence and his story is inconsistent as it was

GMA:

Why would he lie like that?

Joe:

Well look, you know that is the toughest question but the facts are easily disprovable. The guy allegedly with the boat, Daury, wasn't even in Aruba in May of 2005, he's never owned a boat, Joran didn't meet him until 2 months ago so he made up these facts.

I wonder how many times JT practiced this in front of the mirror before he could lie say it with a straight face.

It's natural talent with scum like JT. He doesn't have to practice keeping a straight face IMO.

How do you make up facts?  Is this a new saying I am not aware of.

Look Joe, throw him under the bus, already.  He is ruining your reputation (and that is saying something).

I bet you wished you opted for Peterson.
 

Note to Joe;  The monkeys have known his credibility was zero a long time ago, so did Beth.  Maybe you should start reading here,

[blah]

Hello everyone I', new over here..
But first let me tell you this about Peter R de Vries.
I don't like the guy at all, he hired a guy from aruba
who lives also in the Netherlands and Payed him 25.000
euro's and that is 80.000 dollars to follow and make recordings
and video only for his TV show. In our Law its forbidden to
do so, and Peter R de Vries, even sell Joran to CBS.
No Judge even ask him to do so, 6 month's Peter R de Vries
did so..and of cause a young guy like Joran want's to look
more then he exualy is..but Joran told before that it was stuppid
but what he told the guy is nog true. I Look for that youtube
video's and that seems more to the order then this.
P R d V..risc a jail tour of 2 years with this.
And Beth Holloway is smiling in her hand
 Those People on the youtube video are real!!!
I Believe them!!!
http://nl.youtube.com/user/thethruth007

BANNED

you better go back to grade school and learn some math
1 Euro = 1.4796 U.S. dollars

[Observer]

Joran is supposed to be in hiding in a town in the north, called Drachten. last night after the show over 100 people went to this building and the police had to send them away. There are security officers now.
----------

Police confirms security employees guard the Drachten building where Joran is supposedly hiding.
-------------------------

Peter is thinking of canceling his US trip because he is very upset with the demands of the shows and new stations he is supposed to talk in. He says they are exploiting him and pose unrealistic demands he does not want to meet.

Let's say what he will say in P&W tonight.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3209012/_Peter_R._wil_Amerika-reis_afblazen__.html?p=1,1

[vzzzbx]

Peter is thinking of canceling his US trip because he is very upset with the demands of the shows and new stations he is supposed to talk in. He says they are exploiting him and pose unrealistic demands he does not want to meet.

Peter also said (being annoyed about these demands) let the stations come to Holland if they want to talk to me.

[Bearlyhere]

ROSETTA - HAS BEEN BANNED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THAT HERE

Thanks, Klaas.  BOC will be sorry he missed it, it's his job to take out the trash.

[klaasend]

Peter is thinking of canceling his US trip because he is very upset with the demands of the shows and new stations he is supposed to talk in. He says they are exploiting him and pose unrealistic demands he does not want to meet.

Peter also said (being annoyed about these demands) let the stations come to Holland if they want to talk to me.

I don't blame Peter.  All the stations want exclusive rights.  If they want the story they can go to him on his terms.

[pinkbanana]

Hi Monkeys...I hope I do this right...I'm new...
I have been a lurker on here since the beginning and after the latest events I HAD to become a MONKEY...I wanted to be part of this FAMILY. You all are some INCREDIBLE people. 
Like everyone here my heart was heavy yesterday reading what that little piece of poop was saying....my heart hurts for Natalee, Beth and the family.

d