Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[Lala'sMom]

Lala's, I think I posted yesterday evening but can't find anything now with high number of posts.  I think Paulus sent Joran home walking and Joran called one of the Kalpoes to come and pick him up.

He knew he couldn't get in Deepak's car with those shoes on because of what was on them and so the spot where the Kalpoe or Kalpoes encountered him along his walk home is the spot where he threw away the shoes.

Kalpoes should know what he did with the shoes in this instance.

Just speculation and a possible scenario.

.

The shoes!!!  He walked home without his shoes?  NO HE DID NOT!  Not screaming at you Anna, just for emphasis.  Has anyone found me a picture of those shoes?  Is it a coincidence that we just happen to think we have a photo of discarded shoes in the Aru Bay video?  The shoes....the shoes...he threw away a good pair of shoes.  Why? Because they were wet?  Sandy?  He lives on an island for godssakes! 

[Anna]

For the second or third time EVER Drudge has a link to this story.  It's the written article at

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UJ4HQG0&show_article=1

[klaasend]

Posted by MF at RU - MF keeps adding to his press conference post:

Press conference Mos (4 Feb'08)

Mos said the main reason to held this is to avoid misinterpretation or misquotes like the one that happened on Oprah.

He just gave a short statement: the case was never closed, it has been ongoing and he regrets that on Oprah, eventhough the OM gave a statement about this, they misrepresented the OM and ALE.

THe judicial case against the suspects were closed, and has opened this back based on the seriousness of the statements on TV.

He said that there is a big difference between solving a case on TV and trying to present this to a court. When presented to the court to redetain the suspect, he said that the judge did not see that these images were strong enough for the detention and the appeal will take place tomorrow.

The statements made an impression on us. We are working with the ALE and have contact with the KLPD for some help, for example the searches that took place this morning at 9:00 am in the Netherland.

Mos confirmed that he talked to the families about security and it is their job to guarantee that.

They are indeed looking for the new person mentioned in the show. And they think that the tape is admissable in court, and stressed that the OM was not involved in this, but was a private project.

He does not want to go into details about the boat, but joked about there are a lot of boats out there, to question if he found the boat.

He was asked of the lack of a payphone but credit card phone on the beach and said that they are investigating that, and for him paying with a credit card is a payphone. But they are investigating that.

He said that the Kalpoes must be happy now that Joran said that they were not involved.

He once again stressed that they consider the statements as serious and it should be investigated, that could bring judicial consequences. And important is that what he now is telling is different what he has told us, the place now is a few hundred meters to the north and that brings a whole new change in the investigation.

Aruba's police has a good track record, and that there is a 100% solution rate about a question from an American reporter how many american tourists have been killed in Aruba. He laughed.

They are trying to corraborate what he said. And when Joran said that it is easy to check what he said was not true, and that's what OM plans to do.

[robots]

if joran were to have used the person's real name which IN CASE anyone hasnt figured it out... IT IS PAULUS who helped joran throw Natalee away like  garbage

joran knows his link to stay out of jail is gone.

PAULUS is the key

joran used a fake name because if he named paulus - its all over


its all over anyway for joran and paulus - they simply are going to drag this out even more.

[2NJSons_Mom]

This actual clip has likely already been posted but I find it very interesting that just about all news media are carrying the story.  This is a full clip, about ten minutes, no quickie coverage.  Very surprising where this is being shown.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=41314

Thank you for posting this, Anna.  I missed GMA and was not able to get *******'s link to work nor was I able to get the video to work going directly to abc news site.   This link worked just fine.

[blah]

At the very lease, Joran has admitted that he has knowledge that he is NOT going to tell about ("will take it to my grave").  Isn't this "obstruction of justice"?

Puzzler, one would think so , but remember, we just don't understand Aruban law....

Again he can stick to his right to remain silent. He can claim anything he said on the tape was a lie, just bragging, making stuff up. And not say anything else. Like he has done before. I don't think this is different from US law, is it? You have the right not to speak in the US, right?

this little ass wouldnt last 5 minutes in the US judicial system.

Yes you have the right to remain silent but we also have something called circumstantial evidence.

Basically if he came out and said these things here in the US, the jury would be able to hold it against him and find him guilty.

There is no way in hell this punk would have been allowed to run around spouting his shit for the last  3 years with no consequence.

In the US you are also held accountable for your lies as well - perjury. (and this is a MAJOR crime - felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison)

[martini]

This article has many statements I disagree with but I wanted to post it here anyway.
Doubt about the use of hidden camera evidence

ARUBA--Top Dutch lawyer Gerard Spong expressed his doubts about the use of "evidence" collected with a hidden camera. He did this in the TV programme Nova.

Crime reporter Peter R. de Vries said that with these images he has solved the Natalee Holloway case, because Joran van der Sloot confessed his involvement with her disappearance to a friend.

The question is whether evidence with a hidden camera is legal and whether the Aruban justice system allows it. The lawyer refers to the sentence by the European Court in Straatsburg on October 25, 2007 for the use of secret tape recordings.

"That was, according to the European Court, a violation of the right of privacy. This court decided that monitoring and recording conversations by a private person in the context of and on behalf of an official investigation with the use of technical assistance of the police, is inadmissible."

According to Spong, even without the assistance of the police, penetrating the personal life with visual technical means is also inadmissible. "But if that illegal evidence is given to justice on a silver platter, it may still be used in some cases, according to the verdict. I am not certain whether this is also the case here but it is indeed exciting."

Besides, whether Van der Sloot had lied in his "confession" or not, it still is not a confession about murder, says the lawyer. According to Antillean and Aruban law, a person who buries, hides, carries off or takes a body with the intent of concealing the death, will be sentenced to a maximum of 6 months imprisonment or a fine of a maximum of 300 guilders. It is not possible to keep the person in custody for such deed.

Spong wonders why, after professional legal advice of his father, Joran van der Sloot, while knowing that the criminal consequences for him are so relatively small, has opted to remain silent in the Holloway case.

 http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/k220/doubt220.html

[Anna]

Lala's, I think I posted yesterday evening but can't find anything now with high number of posts.  I think Paulus sent Joran home walking and Joran called one of the Kalpoes to come and pick him up.

He knew he couldn't get in Deepak's car with those shoes on because of what was on them and so the spot where the Kalpoe or Kalpoes encountered him along his walk home is the spot where he threw away the shoes.

Kalpoes should know what he did with the shoes in this instance.

Just speculation and a possible scenario.

.

The shoes!!!  He walked home without his shoes?  NO HE DID NOT!  Not screaming at you Anna, just for emphasis.  Has anyone found me a picture of those shoes?  Is it a coincidence that we just happen to think we have a photo of discarded shoes in the Aru Bay video?  The shoes....the shoes...he threw away a good pair of shoes.  Why? Because they were wet?  Sandy?  He lives on an island for godssakes! 

No, not sand or water on the shoes to cause him to discard them.

If that were the case every pair of shoes in Aruba would likely have to be discarded.

I also doubt vomit would be a rarity given the amount of booze customarily consumed by the local youth.  I'd have to go with blood if venturing a guess.

JMO

.

[Observer]

Aruba's police has a good track record, and that there is a 100% solution rate about a question from an American reporter how many american tourists have been killed in Aruba. He laughed.
------------------------------
100% solution rate? It's been 12 years since the last American was murdered in Aruba..All of them since have dissapeared or killed themselves.

[Faith and Persistence]

Posted by MF at RU:

Press conference Mos (4 Feb'08)

Mos said the main reason to held this is to avoid misinterpretation or misquotes like the one that happened on Oprah.

He just gave a short statement: the case was never closed, it has been ongoing and he regrets that on Oprah, eventhough the OM gave a statement about this, they misrepresented the OM and ALE.

THe judicial case against the suspects were closed, and has opened this back based on the seriousness of the statements on TV.

He said that there is a big difference between solving a case on TV and trying to present this to a court. When presented to the court to redetain the suspect, he said that the judge did not see that these images were strong enough for the detention and the appeal will take place tomorrow.

The statements made an impression on us.

Klaas
Can we get some kind of confirmation that the judge assigned to this case is not Judge Smid (sp) otherwise not rearresting Joran is a complete crock of s%*t

[cubbeegirl]

At the very lease, Joran has admitted that he has knowledge that he is NOT going to tell about ("will take it to my grave").  Isn't this "obstruction of justice"?

Puzzler, one would think so , but remember, we just don't understand Aruban law....

Again he can stick to his right to remain silent. He can claim anything he said on the tape was a lie, just bragging, making stuff up. And not say anything else. Like he has done before. I don't think this is different from US law, is it? You have the right not to speak in the US, right?

My comment was made sort of "tongue in cheek" in reference to the many times we had to listen to Arlene Schipper(sp) stomp her pretty little foot and tell us how we just don't understand Aruban law....

[Lala'sMom]

Joran's story does not fit the evidence or what we know to be as close to fact as possible...check it out....

Things we know..monkeys help me here, please.

1. FBI told the family there was blood in Deepak's car....
2. There was an 8 min phone call to Deepak from Joran at a very convenient time.  What was Joran relating to Deepak? 
3. There is documentation that Paulus was out at 4 AM (still looking for it, but I know I read it)
4. Deepak was cleaning his car at 3 in the morning on said night.  Before or after the 8 min call?
5. Paulus was arrested on a premeditated murder charge.
6. Satish asks how is the girl?  WHY?
7. Joran's shoes are missing.
8. Freddy offers to buy him a new pair? Is that not a red flag?
9. Deepak calls Joran to tell him they hit the jackpot with Steve Croes testimony.
10. Joran's first confession is lost in infinity forever thanks to Jacobs.

This is a start...the things we know does not jive with Joran's story...this confession is to make it all go away...not gonna happen.

[Hotshot]

MF Posted

Two house searches took place this morning in Arnhem

But no results yet in.

[Blonde]

Lala's, I think I posted yesterday evening but can't find anything now with high number of posts.  I think Paulus sent Joran home walking and Joran called one of the Kalpoes to come and pick him up.

He knew he couldn't get in Deepak's car with those shoes on because of what was on them and so the spot where the Kalpoe or Kalpoes encountered him along his walk home is the spot where he threw away the shoes.

Kalpoes should know what he did with the shoes in this instance.

Just speculation and a possible scenario.

.

The shoes!!!  He walked home without his shoes?  NO HE DID NOT!  Not screaming at you Anna, just for emphasis.  Has anyone found me a picture of those shoes?  Is it a coincidence that we just happen to think we have a photo of discarded shoes in the Aru Bay video?  The shoes....the shoes...he threw away a good pair of shoes.  Why? Because they were wet?  Sandy?  He lives on an island for godssakes! 

My thoughts as well, they were wet from taking Natalee's body and full of sand.

[vzzzbx]

Basically if he came out and said these things here in the US, the jury would be able to hold it against him and find him guilty.

This may be the key difference, a jury or a judge passing the judgement. A jury judges more along the lines like you and me reason. (Dude did it). A judge follows the law more strictly, not led by emotions.

[blah]

Basically if he came out and said these things here in the US, the jury would be able to hold it against him and find him guilty.

This may be the key difference, a jury or a judge passing the judgement. A jury judges more along the lines like you and me reason. (Dude did it). A judge follows the law more strictly, not led by emotions.

I do not agree with your statement and juries are not allowed emotion to enter in to their decision making process.

[friend of monkeys]

I haven't been here for a long time but felt it appropriate to stop in now.  Hopefully the Holloway family will finally get some type of resolution.  After reading the translation of Joran's statements last night, I am wondering if he substituted Daury's name for Paulus'. 

Welcome to SM Bob! Many people here think so. Personally I think he was describing Lorenzo Van Rijn(Rumored half brother)

"Im prefer not to tell names,Because he has always had my back"
"Look,this friend is quite clever and he's a bit older,We have been friends since kids"
"I've never told anyone about this man.Its not easy"
"I'll never tell his name,I will take it to my grave"
"I'd give my life to help him"

At the very lease, Joran has admitted that he has knowledge that he is NOT going to tell about ("will take it to my grave").  Isn't this "obstruction of justice"?

Puzzler, one would think so , but remember, we just don't understand Aruban law....

It seems more like he is referring to paulus.....papa definitely helped....we all know he did.
The only person I would defend to the grave in a situation like this would be my mother, or father....

[cubbeegirl]

Posted on the front page of SM by a poster from the NL:

Dolf wrote:


Holland can’t do much, its an Aruban justice thing, all Dutch justice can do is help IF asked.

general consensus of the Dutch ppl is…ship him to Aruba..fix him up with some nice concrete shoes and have him dive for miss. Holoways remains.

His life here is over, so is that of his family.

I agree with the Dutch people! 

Sounds good to me too Sunny!!!

[truthseeker2]

Has anyone matched up confession with alleged timeline?

Just spouting from memory...

It appears as though Natalee is declared dead by Joran at 230am.
They probably drove around for just a bit, and K2 probably knew that she was deathly ill, and in horrible shape. If they left Joran and Natalee, she must have died within a half hour. Joran's eight minute call could have occurred while walking back towards a pay phone. (Why wouldn't he have just used his own cell phone to call home?) Had Paulus already told Joran to watch who he called due to possible tracking and record checks by ALE?

I think it's possible that the eight minute phone call to Deepak was a call for help.  It may also be possible that Deepak took a few minutes to figure out who Joran could call to help dispose of Natalee (I won't say body because I don't know if she was dead at that time).  Deepak and Joran may have decided at that time not to use their cell phones to contact the person they were going to call to come and help.

[anilee]

Good morning Monkeys.  I am new as a member, but have been lurking and reading and following Justice for Natalee for the past 2 1/2 years. 

One thing I am curious about is since Joran has not mentioned the K2s, are they still considered suspects and can they now be brought in as a witness against him?  They cannot lie as witness, correct?

Thank you and it's a great pleasure to be here.

anilee