Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[ldstlou]

Hi Monkeys!!
I will never catch up. Is there a place to read the transcript from last night...one that has been updated and fully translated?

[amanda]

Oh, and Sunny, I've just seen your post above this and must say that that sounds like the most probable scenario.  He's lower than a journalist acting lower than a lawyer.

[Anna]

Some of local Birmingham coverage and some video with English subtitles

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5673079&version=4&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[MumInOhio]

Dawntreader
Thanks for your response and welcome to the cage.  I only pause in your assertions at the fact that if those shoes fell off in the ocean, then they would have washed back to shore and there would be no discussion of them now. Those shoes are pivotal in this case.  He made an effort to mention them in his story.  He talked about them in his statements and maybe in his book. That I don't know for certain.  What I do know is Freddy was trying to get him another pair. Deepak felt the need to inquire about them and the shoes won't go away.  Natalee did not just die on him on the beach from a self-induced drug overdose...there is more...much more.

LOL...Lala's...I have just about gone blind today reading about those darn shoes in that stupid book......

[amanda]

No offense to the good journalists or good lawyers (there are a few).

[Dawntreader]

Dawntreader
Thanks for your response and welcome to the cage.  I only pause in your assertions at the fact that if those shoes fell off in the ocean, then they would have washed back to shore and there would be no discussion of them now. Those shoes are pivotal in this case.  He made an effort to mention them in his story.  He talked about them in his statements and maybe in his book. That I don't know for certain.  What I do know is Freddy was trying to get him another pair. Deepak felt the need to inquire about them and the shoes won't go away.  Natalee did not just die on him on the beach from a self-induced drug overdose...there is more...much more.

Thank you for the welcome! Yes, I agree the shoes are important. I just don't know how, except for the obvious that they contain evidence. You Monkeys have been keeping this going for 2 1/2 years, and I am glad so many have championed the victim who cannot speak for herself. I am also hoping there is something for the Persistence to find. A few missing pieces could assemble a huge puzzle.

[Spock]

Wasn't it a judge in Holland that refused an arrest warrant and not a judge in Aruba?

Yes, but the Aruban judge set the threshold when he last released Joran, and the Dutch Judge said that threshold was not met. At least, thats how I understand the system.

[Hotshot]

Lala's, I think I posted yesterday evening but can't find anything now with high number of posts.  I think Paulus sent Joran home walking and Joran called one of the Kalpoes to come and pick him up.

He knew he couldn't get in Deepak's car with those shoes on because of what was on them and so the spot where the Kalpoe or Kalpoes encountered him along his walk home is the spot where he threw away the shoes.

Kalpoes should know what he did with the shoes in this instance.

Just speculation and a possible scenario.

.

The shoes!!!  He walked home without his shoes?  NO HE DID NOT!  Not screaming at you Anna, just for emphasis.  Has anyone found me a picture of those shoes?  Is it a coincidence that we just happen to think we have a photo of discarded shoes in the Aru Bay video?  The shoes....the shoes...he threw away a good pair of shoes.  Why? Because they were wet?  Sandy?  He lives on an island for godssakes! 

Bingo LaLa's thats what I've been thinking too!

[Dihannah1]

I do not agree with your statement and juries are not allowed emotion to enter in to their decision making process.

Not allowed, but how do you know they don't. I think this is a common opinion, at least here in Holland, jury members are not law experts like a judge and will pass judgement more like public opinion passes judgement.

Welcome vzzzbx,  glad to see somebody else from Holland join to help us understand a little better Dutch law.
I somewhat agree with you,  in the fact, jurors are not supposed to use emotion.  But I tend to believe, human instinct does come into play and sometimes, whether concsciously or not, emotions play a small role.  It's human nature.

[Destiny]

Yikes!

Need the help of an Admin...oh gosh I replied to Robot's post...my puter had a big hiccup...and it duplicated Robot's part of the post like 3 times...please edit for bandwidth...plus that hiccup made it look like I spelled a few things wrong...LOL

Thank You!

[Lala'sMom]

How does this new scenario explain Anita seeing Natalee's underwear?

Hi Windsor....to me it does....he took her underwear off on the beach.....grabbed them and put them in his pocket forgetting about them when papa and or steve croes arrived to take Natalee away.....he forgot about then when he got home...left them in his pocket and mama sloot or the helper found them in his pants pocket in the laundry.  JMO

No, no, no, guys. We can't actually think of what we know to be true...Joran confessed all the other stuff that we have spent almost 3 years working on means nothing now...don't you get it?  JORAN CONFESSED to mistreatment of a dead body.  That is a minor thing in Aruba.   The checkmate has worked to perfection.

[Hotshot]

Lala's, I think I posted yesterday evening but can't find anything now with high number of posts.  I think Paulus sent Joran home walking and Joran called one of the Kalpoes to come and pick him up.

He knew he couldn't get in Deepak's car with those shoes on because of what was on them and so the spot where the Kalpoe or Kalpoes encountered him along his walk home is the spot where he threw away the shoes.

Kalpoes should know what he did with the shoes in this instance.

Just speculation and a possible scenario.

.

The shoes!!!  He walked home without his shoes?  NO HE DID NOT!  Not screaming at you Anna, just for emphasis.  Has anyone found me a picture of those shoes?  Is it a coincidence that we just happen to think we have a photo of discarded shoes in the Aru Bay video?  The shoes....the shoes...he threw away a good pair of shoes.  Why? Because they were wet?  Sandy?  He lives on an island for godssakes! 

Bingo LaLa's thats what I've been thinking too!

Try this again, first one didnt post
BINGO LaLa's, thats what i have been thinking too!

[WhiskeyGirl]

I really hope people see after hearing Joran speak that the most sick, scenario is possible in this case, and actually the truth is beyond people's minds. It's not far fetched to understand the father son relationship going on here.

A kid smoking dope talking crime and "bragging" about dumping that f***ing bitch in the ocean. And oh yeah, she might not have been dead.

"Why does this shit happen to me."

Is it really surprising that they are holding on to the truth, hiding it because you would be basically cutting off your head out of shame.

Paulus just keeps running.

It would be easier to believe the simplest explanation - natural causes.  However, many questions remain.

What does Joran have on the boatman?  Is he the bifrons?

What does Joran have on the Kalpoes?  Anything? 

Judges, prosecutors, lawyers, newspaper reporters, and others often acquire a lot of information that is never made public.  I wonder how much "I have something on this person" there is in Aruba?  mo

Who has stuff on JVDS and PVDS?  Would someone have something that ensures that others that may be involved, are never named publicly by Joran?

[Anna]

Monday, 4 February 2008
Natalee Holloway Update 36: Joran's confession, Natalee dumped in Ocean, possibly Alive!Accomplice 'Daury'found.No arrests made.Prosecutors 'Cautious'
 
This is a round up of the last few posts, it looks like the investigation is moving forward, but until something new pops up, we'll just have to wait. But here's the recap:

Joran van der Sloot, an earlier suspect was filmed with hidden cameras by Peter R. De Vries while in the car of a friend, Patrick van der Eem, who had offered his services to De Vries when he met van der Sloot. Van der Eem was paid about 25.000 euros for his part in the operation. Van der Eem previously offered his help free of charge to the police, yet they were legally bound not to entrap a former suspect.

Over the months of their acquaintance, van der Sloot began to trust van der Eem, who never brought up the case. After Joran returned from Aruba following his second arrest and release, the sting began in earnest. Van der Sloot told van der Eem that she died while they were engaging in sexual acts, describing her death in a way that resembles an epileptic fit.

An Aruban friend that van der Sloot described as 'Daury' helped him dispose of the body by dumping it in the ocean. During the TV show, a man named Daury, a former friend of van der Sloot's was found, but he can prove that he was in Holland at the time of Holloway's disappearance. Another friend of van der Sloot's, previously detained for questioning by the prosecution, Steve Gregory Croes, is now rumoured to be the one who helped van der Sloot.
Van der Sloot's confession makes it clear that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are not implicated in the disappearance of Holloway at all. He describes them as 'Losers and Dupes' and brags about his sexual prowess in comparison to the brothers. Van der Sloot's father is implicated in various legal strategies and maneuvers, including instructing Joranj to stay silent, and smuggling a phone into his cell.

Van der Sloot believed himself to be untouchable by the prosecution and the police. "They're idiots. I played it so well. They have nothing on me." Van der Sloot also made numerous remarks to the effect that he was planning to make a lot of money from appearances on television, book deals, out of court settlements for defamation of character.

The days before the show aired, van der Sloot's lawyers denied that he was in trouble, but soon after a phone interview with the Pauw en Witteman television show where he claimed all of the things he said to van der Eem were menat to impress him, his lawyers released a statement to the effect that he should have kept his mouth shut.

Despite the case appearing solved to the general public, the Aruban justice department can not say with certainty when there will be arrests, and if van der Sloot can be convicted, and if so of what exactly. If Natalee Holloway was dead at the time of the dumping of the body, van der Sloot is only guilty of obstruction of Justice, disposing of a corpse and perjury.

Peter R. De Vries will be seen in all major American talk shows this week. Almost half of the Dutch population tuned in Yesterday evening for his documentary. ABC will be screening an edited version of this programme tonight.

Posted by Olivier de Vries at 17:22
http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/

[SunnyinTX]

When Mos referred to misinformation on the Oprah show,
did he mean that she referred to the case as closed?

of course I can't speak for Mos...but that is what I think he was referring to.  IMO they won't ever close the case....then they would have to give up all the case documents...that is never going to happen IMO

I agree Sunny.... cause it's all there in black and white....

I'll bet that Rudy and Oduber have had everything pertinent destroyed by now.

I agree......any and all evidence has 'gone missing'

[ciskebab]

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2024995.ece

I dont know if this is posted yet but the OM in Aruba says Joran is now formally a suspect of murder and if he will set a foot in Aruba he will be arrested. This morning they also have searched 2 houses he lived in in the netherlands

[EURobert]

Hi Monk's, how are you all doing?

Just on dutch tv two forensic psychologist commenting on JvdS: the first said Joran at least had psychopathic features. The other said (specialist in women who are raped after being drugged with GHB): the description of Natalees condition resembles very much GHB drugging!

Another thing: yesterday I said I had heard the M-word...: Murder!
I recorded a piece of the re-airing of the show just a minute ago. This is what he litteraly said:

Joran: It happened at about two oclock. I was at home at 3 oclock (am) or so, 2. 30 (am). And at 2.30 (am) I immediatly went at my computer. So I was only a two and a half hour period with that girl.
- Alone?
Joran: In 2 and a half hour.... So I have actually... I didn't meet her at daytime so that we could have done things together... So in two and a half hours together you can't..... ...... murder.... or do something with her.... Everybody knows that.... Than you have to be a professional uh....

[WhiskeyGirl]

Why would Joran choose to lie?  What is wrong with the truth? 

Why would he continue to cast such a negative light on his whole family?  Does he think that they are proud of his actions?  His words?

Is Joran's family proud of his notoriety?  Are his younger brothers proud to tell people about their older sibling?

Do they look forward to his appearances on TV?  Maybe it brings them luck with the young ladies of Aruba?

Will Joran ever tell the truth?

[crazybabyborg]

Hi Monkeys!!
I will never catch up. Is there a place to read the transcript from last night...one that has been updated and fully translated?

Yes, here it is:

http://prdvtranslations.blogspot.com/   

[bleachedblack]

This is just a sad  thought that I am tossing out there. If that is if it is possibly Natalee's body in that drainage culvert next to the shoes along side the road that runs near the Marriott.......It is possible that joran stashed Natalee's body there awaiting PVDS(IMO) to make arrangements to dispose of her. Point: if Natalee was taken out to sea and dumped "like a rag" (wasn't that jorans phrase?) into the ocean, while not as good as a metal crab trap, at least the plastic would help contain the remains for possible discovery. If she had simply been released into the ocean with no form of "containment" I think she would be impossible to find. Maybe this would improve chances for locating Natalee just a fraction?