Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[martini]

Please remember what Joran said to Patrick, is a friend bragging to another friend. Joran is a sick lier and when he told Patrick his tale, the truth is there but twisted to fill Joran's ego. Daury is not his Father. The part about just go on about your daily life came from his Father but was twisted in his mind. Daury is a real person in this crime. Daury is a strong person who Joran knew. He tells this like he watched to many episodes of the Sopranos. Don't worry I'll take care of it. Really, it is sickening. He was a kid when this happened and made a stupid mistake not calling 911. He will regret this for the rest of his life. However short that will be.

[robots]

the far reaching implications are the following

that a JUDGE was involved in making a GIRL disappear


thats what he is saying

the judge is paulus

paulus is daury

Did Paulus own a boat?  Just asking, because I think we need a boat.

there were other people that helped

that had a boat, but paulus sent joran home to have an alibi

paulus was out and about all night

We know Paulus is the one who said he would "take care of it, son," but who had the boat that needed the money that morning at 4 a.m.?

well. my guess is someone that had a boat that paulus borrow

paulus did everything - IMO

Yes, and he already said he would do anything to protect his son..

yes, he did


paulus must be spinning right now

2+2 = paulus

[Tylergal]

JUST HAVE TO GET THIS OFF MY CHEST

I did not expect any more or any less of Joran in this confession.  It is just about what I expected.  I have always said that if she had died of natural causes, even from an overdose, Joran and/or his father would have sought help, taken her to the emergency room, called the friends at the Holiday Inn if and when she expired or was resuscitated, and Beth would have been notified.  Joran would have been a hero of some sort for rendering necessary help, but this was not NATURAL CAUSES. 

Further, I expected no more or less of the language he used and his "blame the victim" attitude, because we have seen and heard his Yenta mother, and he is only an extension of her greedy control.  We have seen her lying on TV, heard what she said to Beth & Greta, and witnessed what she raised and called a "child."  She raised a monster.  Normal, good, loving kind people do not raise these kinds of monsters.  He is a product of his environment.

Anita, Paulus, you are reaping what you sowed.  Paulus, you weakling.  You never stood up to that fat blob and told her that your children would need to be raised with morals and discipline.  You let her "woodstock" these children.  She has ruined your life which became warped because of your weakness and her control and in all probability she goaded you for not being a judge and then lied to make you look better, you weakling.  She controlled your family life, your children and has wrecked everything you worked and fought for and now your spawn has finished her off as well.  We hope Val will have enough decency and common sense to distance himself from your grasp and that Joran will no longer be around to kick poor Poppin' Fresh.  He is just a fat little guy who needs your love that you are unable to give him for cleaning out the vacuum cleaner that Joran sucked out of your household.  It's all empty now.  Everybody knows you for what you have done and what your #1 spawn has done.  Empty your vacuum cleaner.  Redeem yourselves.

[Frank]

Klaas, Red,

Anything from Jossy?

[Ono]

I wonder if van der Stratten (sp?) had a boat at that time?  He would certainly have a paternal attitude towards Joran and hasn't he known him all of his life?

[Observer]

He didn't name him tonight either. It's Lorenzo or Koen that helped dispose of Natalee with the Boat. WHat he was telling was half truth here.MO
-------------------------------
the friend is older

knows Joran all his life

he will never name him until the day he dies, as an honor debt for brining away the body

at one moment he moved no more, Joran went to a pay phone called the guy and they got rid of her

the guy says, you go home, I will take care of it

Joran is full of praise for the man, the infiltrator tells he will get pay for the man

[Tylergal]

I wonder if van der Stratten (sp?) had a boat at that time?  He would certainly have a paternal attitude towards Joran and hasn't he known him all of his life?

Joran also said that he told this paternal figure not to call the police, just bring the boat.

This father figure called him 'son.'

I wonder also about GVC's father.

[klaasend]

Klaas, Red,

Anything from Jossy?

Frank - I know Red emailed Jossy with WTF? ...don't know if Jossy has replied though.

[Tamikosmom]

My heart is breaking for Beth.  Watching that video and ... listening to Joran van der Sloots words in regards to the last moments of daughter's life ...   

Janet

++++++++++

http://www.vkmag.com/videos/videos_reactie_natalees_moeder

[Tylergal]

I am wondering also if the reason Steve Croes inserted himself into this is because he saw what was going on.  We were told that a woman who saw two men putting a screaming woman into a white truck was the mother of Steve Croes' children, who worked in the hostelry business.

[klaasend]

Tylergal - BRAVO!

[Noly]

Joran: "Something happened, I didn't kill her, the ocean is big, right? I got very lucking they never found her (no body no case). I think I'm in the clear, they wont find a body. Let me tell you I never talked about this to anyone. They dumped her in the ocean. I know people who could helped me, I'm not naming names. It's not my parents, it was a friend, with a boat. "


why in the world would he throw in  'it's not my parents' ???

[Ono]

I wonder if van der Stratten (sp?) had a boat at that time?  He would certainly have a paternal attitude towards Joran and hasn't he known him all of his life?

Joran also said that he told this paternal figure not to call the police, just bring the boat.

This father figure called him 'son.'

I wonder also about GVC's father.

Yes, yes...another possibilty.  I think it is a very close intimate with the van der Sloots who has power............and access to a boat.

[robots]

Joran: "Something happened, I didn't kill her, the ocean is big, right? I got very lucking they never found her (no body no case). I think I'm in the clear, they wont find a body. Let me tell you I never talked about this to anyone. They dumped her in the ocean. I know people who could helped me, I'm not naming names. It's not my parents, it was a friend, with a boat. "


why in the world would he throw in  'it's not my parents' ???

PAULUS is DAURY

[Destiny]

He didn't name him tonight either. It's Lorenzo or Koen that helped dispose of Natalee with the Boat. WHat he was telling was half truth here.MO
-------------------------------
the friend is older

knows Joran all his life

he will never name him until the day he dies, as an honor debt for brining away the body

at one moment he moved no more, Joran went to a pay phone called the guy and they got rid of her

the guy says, you go home, I will take care of it

Joran is full of praise for the man, the infiltrator tells he will get pay for the man

*******....yes...I personally still think it was Lorenzo....when I was making my phone calls quite awhile back, to the corrections institute in Aruba, when Lorenzo had been arrested, I was very disturbed to hear that Lorenzo was getting the same slap on the wrist from LEI, that Joran had recieved.

I still wonder at the *special* treatment he got...he only served 18 days in prison, for a much larger crime.  And, he too had a *private* closed door meeting with the judge who let him off scott-free.

Dest

[Tamikosmom]

WHY??

_______


http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/02/03/natalee-holloway-update-press-conference-in-arubatomorrow/

Investigative judge reopens inquiry against J. v.d. S. but refuses pretrial detention; prosecutor plans appeal

The investigative judge found that secretly taped conversations and video between J.v.d.S and a third person were sufficient reason to reopen the judicial inquiry against J.v.d.S by January 30, 2008.

However, the judge held that the tapes handed over to the Public Prosecutor by the Dutch crime reporter Pieter R. de Vries, were insufficient to order additional pre trial detention.

The Public Prosecutor’s Office will appeal the judge’s ruling on pre trial detention.

On January 20, 2008 De Vries showed a part of his material to two public prosecutors. The tapes show the moments on which J.v.d. S. tells his version of events for the first time to a third party and tells his story of the fate of Natalee Holloway on May 30, 2005. The contents of the tapess and the way J.v.d.S. ultimately tells his story create the impression with the Office, that this version of events could come close to the truth.

The Office responded positive to the question of De Vries whether the Office could use and would like to use his material. This is in conformity with the end of last year’s statement that the Office will investigate every clue to the case. The Public Prosecutor’s Office regards the material of a serious nature.
Hence the Office did not await the broadcasting of the program which had been announced by De Vries for February, 3rd, 2008, but acted speedily by requesting the reopening of the judicial inquiry by the investigative judge, which was granted by him.

Before requesting the judge to reopen the investigation, the Public Prosecutor wanted to review additional tapes that were recorded during this operation. This process to verify and validate the tapes was done on January 25th and 26th 2008. By February 1st the Office received the final materials.

It’s important to note that neither the Public Prosecutor Office or the Police has had any involvement with the activities of De Vries. Nor any influence on him or his team. In our view the material can be used for the purpose of the investigation.

The Office finds that the story of J.v.d.S corroborates to a large extent the results of the investigation to date. Despite the fact that the Office values the statements by J.v.d.S. properly, the Office is obliged to proceed judiciously. Confession evidence always requires a more thorough investigation.

It may be the case that in the eyes of the public the disappearance of Natalee Holloway has been solved by J.v.d.S.’s statements presented in the crime program of Peter R. de Vries. However, while video tape may present a strong case in a tv news show, it may be insufficient for a finding of guilt by a Judge. It is up to the Court to evaluate the materials and the statements, and to find out their significance in relation to other results of the investigation. It is not the Public Prosecutor’s Office’s position to refer in any way to the guilty question: that is for the Court. Apart from this again there is a big difference between the reality of a courtroom and the reality of television screen.

In summary, on Friday, February 1st the Public Prosecutor requested in the wake of the new materials the investigative judge to order the pretrial detention of J.v.d.S. The judge denied the request reasoning that the new materials did not meet his threshold for a new pretrial detention, a threshold he put very high because of earlier multiple arrests and pretrial detention periods concerning this suspect.
This means that the Office is legally not able to have J.v.d.S. arrested in the Netherlands.
The Public Prosecutor’s Office will appeal that decision.

The Office of the Public Prosecution and the police will continue their investigation into the story by J.v.d.S. The investigation will not be limited to Aruba. All materials put at our disposal by Peter R. de Vries will be checked and double checked. Forensic scientists will be asked to investigate and give their opinion on the physical condition of Natalee Holloway, before, during and after the time she spent on the beach with J.v.d.S., as he claims.

On Monday February 4th 2008 at 12.00 there will be a pressconference, held in the government pressroom in Oranjestad.

[hotping]

Joran: "Something happened, I didn't kill her, the ocean is big, right? I got very lucking they never found her (no body no case). I think I'm in the clear, they wont find a body. Let me tell you I never talked about this to anyone. They dumped her in the ocean. I know people who could helped me, I'm not naming names. It's not my parents, it was a friend, with a boat. "


why in the world would he throw in  'it's not my parents' ???

Noly I wondered the same thing.......His parents were involved in someway in this no doubt about it...JMO 

[Observer]

I am wondering also if the reason Steve Croes inserted himself into this is because he saw what was going on.  We were told that a woman who saw two men putting a screaming woman into a white truck was the mother of Steve Croes' children, who worked in the hostelry business.

Whats odd about that story is Edwin Croes of top 95 was the one who reported that story to the Ale,from a tip that came in through the radio station. He is also the guy that the 2 freak psychics said witnessed Pitbulls Murder. Same guy who on June 9th hours after JK2 were arrested went on the internet and started emailing everyone to tell Arubans to fight back.

I think it is possible SGC may have witnessed something,but even more possible that before the sun came up they were near the beach/hotel area disposing of Natalee. Either temporarily or permanently. We also have 2 independent sources that said they saw people place a body in a white pickup from a dumpster behind one of the hotels. I forget right now but it was the Marriot or the Hyatt.

[Spock]

I found this admission extremely troubling:

"I didn't say shit. They have nothing on me anymore. Even if they find her body with my sperm in it, they can't do shit. they're f***ing idiots."

It seeems to say, it was necessary to hide the body, because there was evidence of intercourse. When you consider further that Joran admits she might not have been dead when he hid her in the bushes and placed her in the boat, it really makes a strong case that Joran wronged her is some way. He seems to be saying, I left DNA on her and I could not let her be found, I moved her to the boat, in whatever condition.

Now the Judge says these statements are not enough for serious charges and he will only approve a lesser charge of grave robbing. I don't see it that way.

I expect the only way forward is to find out who had the boat and assisted in the disposal. He initially said it was a long time friend that he called from a payphone and that person resides in Holland now. He then gave a name that I think was misinformation, as if he realized he had said too much. If the case is to move forward, this person needs to be found. Joran told us alot, but he is still lying.

I agree spock .....I think he was starting to fear he was saying too much and just named a name and now I am sure that Daury would love to get his hands around the delicious sporters neck...

Every time Joran comes out with a story, we get closer to the truth, but never the truth. There are two obvious choices for whose boat was used. Both had boats out that night, one for the tatoo (SC) and one for a private party (SG). I think the Dutch will have to bring someone with a boat in for questioning now and that could break the case.

[Frank]

As I said earlier, this was kickoff.

We cannot let Joran van der sloot define Natalee Holloway. This misogyny must stop somewhere, it's one case that must be tried in people's souls.

Those friends and coworkers who are amazed at your passion, if a little confused about why "this case," you know, the ones that ask about it but don't know the details.

Now they know that tomorrow this case will be worldwide, the fires lit.

Retell the story to everyone you come in contact with, everyone. Now is a moment to re-energize from the pain.

We need to close, and we're not there. I cannot see myself as someone who can't close the deal, so to speak. And nothing has this much moral importance.

Tamikosmom, are you ready?

You are the Giants, without the champagne. I'll always remember this Super Bowl, alone, thinking of you.