Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[CapsLockWizard]

Klaasend:

Well your board is all litup...lots of hits...hard to get on...

Did receive an email from David...he wanted to wait after Joran Story for the next Move.

Have split the riddle in 2 documents, soon in MBox.

[Anna]

Working and lurking all day, thinking and waiting so as not to strain server even more.

Just a couple of thoughts.  No one disposes of the body of someonw who just dies of natural causes in your presence.  It is ludicrous for anyone, (Greta, ALE, Aruban judge) to suggest this is normal or even possible behavior.

And secondly, I wish deVries had kept up the taping a little while longer so that Joran might eventually tell who Daury truly was.

Beth gave ALE the suspect and now deVries has him confessing but ALE can't even pin down whose boat was used?  Pathetic.

.

[Tamikosmom]

Can any Monkey tell me what time Good Morning America comes on and ... what network.

Thanks you.

Janet

____________


ABC News has obtained exclusive U.S. rights to this stunning new information caught on tape and will air a 90-minute special edition of "20/20: The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway" Monday at 9:30 p.m. ET, as well as special coverage of the case on "Good Morning America" on Monday.


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4222253&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=3
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=4

Good Morning America is on ABC channel 7.  It airs at 7am PST but check your local listings.

Thank you Klaas.

Special thanks to ... Red, Dugga, Klaas and all the other zoo keepers.  I am truly appreciative of all the time and effort that you have given to provide a forum that has meaningfully upheld the family of Natalee Holloway from the beginning in their quest for answers.

Also ... special thanks to all Monkeys who kept the forum updated this afternoon in regards to the happening encompassing the "confession" video.  The posts that provided insights made for good reads.

I was away for most of the day ... family dictated.  It too me three hours but ... I did manage to catch up.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
9:55

 

[Lala'sMom]

I am wondering if this Daury guy was visiting on Aruba that weekend for the concert and was staying at the Marriott.  There is something about the Marriott that just will not let go in my brain.  It just keeps popping up and popping up.  There is some "higher up source" at the Marriott who is involved in Natalee's disposal.  The phone call to "Bill's house," the repeated mention of Marriott with the pimps and their cronies, using a pay phone near the Marriott, Joran staying at the Marriott all summer with this girl when his family was obviously having financial difficulties over what he had put them through....I question someone involved with the Marriott who helped Joran and gave Joran "paid" days at the Marriott, compliments of the management.  This just makes me shudder to think that happened, but there is somebody in Marriott deeply involved here.

I know, I know, you've had that feeling from the start, but I think Marriott is being used here as some sort of shield as usually, Marriotts are squeaky clean and run like a tight ship....[ you know how I like the corp ]....It's so hard for me to imagine anyone in management like that involved...........but, of course, how would we know?  Like I think when he visited with that blonde 'pretend date' that summer and they stayed at the Marriott - I think he was trying to blend in with the squeaky clean Marriott reputation. I'm probably all off base, but as having been with Marriott here, I just know that Bill Marriott is a seriously good guy and would not tolerate his name being associated with crime.  Even if the hotel is owned by others, Marriott has it's name on it if it is in charge of running it.  Bill Marriott cares about his good name.  Just a thought there.

Tyler: Voting Mitt? I am.

Ono, I know the Marriott reputation but bad people use good people and their good names all the time.  I loved Bill Marriott when I met him back in the day and had dealings with him.  I have been doing MITTENS for weeks now.    California looking good.  Maine came through!

You're right...it just makes me sick to think someone connected may be a bad guy;  Yeah...California looking good! Glad about Maine!  You're a good MITTENS woman!

don't forget that mip6 was working at the marriott when natalee disappeared.
dennisintn

That's true.  Mark Purcell, right?

[Destiny]

It is a house of cards, or lined up dominoes...

One card falls and all the rest will fall as well -- all the way to the top... The exclusive club for procurement just lost it's top pimp whose sociopathic, pyschopathic indulges just frothed to the top and dragging with him one of their own, a future judge-wanna-be got in too deep...  From here the truth will continue to surface and more heads will roll (or alternatively the clean-up crew will just eliminate several of these mouthpiece scumbags to try to restore the incurable insanity that pervades the entire Dutch system.

BINGO....that's why Joren has become the liability, they never thought he might be...it's all crumbling now...the foundation is shaking!

Robots has been saying this forever...save a cigar for me Sweet Pea

[merkus]

I have not gotten a chance to watch the video yet, but I have read many of the comments.  It sounds like the Dutch reporter and his sidekick did a great job with this, but I wish they had not moved so quickly to release this information.  I wish they had continued this charade for at least a few months to see what additional information Joran might have revealed.  As I understand it, these tapes were made since his last release just a few weeks ago. 

Don't get me wrong -- those guys have done a tremendous service, but it would seem that with additional time and patience additional, even more detailed information may have been forthcoming from Joran.  Has the reporter said why they did not continue the secret recordings for an additional period of time (i.e., was there some falling out between Joran and the guy who got him to talk)?

[Lake Erie Princess]

IMO, I think that Joran's helper was Koen G.
Think back......LE went and tried to talk to him,
but his Daddy did not allow it.

IF they used 1 of the fishing cages ? which was missing from the huts, maybe.....
there would be something to recover for her Mother's sake ?

[Kiwi]

And another thing...

If Joran was BSing this guy, why not blame it on the Kalpoes?  If you are going to BS, say you had sex with her and left her with the Kalpoes.  Place the blame on them.  Placing the blame on yourself makes no sense whatsoever.  I can see bragging about having sex with a girl but not disposing of a "maybe" dead body. 

klaasend I respect you with all my heart, but all the posters here come from different backgrounds. Me, I come from the pushed nose crowd. It is how you were brought up and who you hang around that makes your interpretation different from others. That said...This is a friend bragging (trying to impress a friend) in a world not all the readers here can understand. Truth is in every word Joran says but exaggerated.

I can follow that. So is there anything in what he says that helps find his cleaners?

[Tylergal]

Okaydokey.  I am going to take a shot at some of the mysteries of this whole thing.

Deepak and Satish wanted to be big men about town.  Their only way to achieve this was to chauffeur Joran around town and have the appearance of being “somebody,” while Joran was using them all the time for “a ride.”  Remember he says they have a “fat Toyota” in his statement.  Short of knowing the strict translation, I am going to take that to mean, it was a “hot car.”  It looked good to the girls and the guys were in envy, a perfect ride for a “sporter” to have his “slaves” drive him into the evening with his latest conquests. 

In some sick way, K2 got a thrill from this and perhaps they were voyeurs , or not.  There is the mention of “the tape” that “the girl” would find repulsing.  I think at that point, even Deepak and Satish realize they have pushed too far.  Natalee thinks K2 are the jerks and demands they leave her and Joran along the beach.  She has seen the sharks, she has been in the car with them.  They acquiesce and leave Joran and Natalee at the beach, which is probably more than even Joran had bargained for.  He now has Natalee alone, and he can take advantage of her in anyway, shape, form or fashion.

Deepak states in his Skeeters tape that “she was beautiful, she looked like an angel,” or something to that effect.  I feel that he was pretty glommed by Natalee when she was dancing and could only dream of what it would be like to be with her, so he goes on line with his friend, Croes, and lives a fantasy as if he was in a porn chat room.  He is fantasizing at this point.

Later, he finds out what Joran has done because Joran calls him in need of help.  The long phone call.  Joran is holding while Deepak is trying to find an accomplice to get the mess straightened out, a friend with a boat.  Deepak and Satish realize at this point they need to clean the car because this is bigger than it was when they left them alone on the beach. 

Fine friend Joran is now, but it’s too late.  Deepak is the adult.  Paulus has been summoned to pay the bifrons.  His wheels are turning.  He needs to get Satish and Deepak into this so they can help Joran cover his tracks (or at least make up new tracks and new trails not covered).  Paulus has done one of these boys a legal favor, not sure which but it has something to do with a car, a “choller” and a gun.  These guys are not as street-savvy as they think they are and know little about the law, so Paulus has them “over the barrel,” those same old platitudes rushing forth about Deepak being held responsible since he was seen driving the car, the adult, the owner of the car, etc., etc. 

Deepak and Satish have been admonished to stick with the story.  Enter Steve Croes who has witnessed this.  He has told someone and it got back to D&S Kalpoe that he wants to be paid off for what he saw.  He loses his job for some reason and he is rewarded with a better job at C&C, thanks to the owner, who knows girls are being drugged there and SGC can prove it, so he is rewarded with a job to keep quiet.

Deepak and Satish are in this up to their eyeballs now, yet Deepak keeps trying to make Satish appear innocent.  They now view themselves as folk heroes on Aruba, to be celebrated for outsmarting an American woman looking for her daughter.  They make public appearances at such places at C&C, thinking that girls will be falling all over them and short of that, now they are stuck.  That did not happen.  No one is willing to run the risk of being their best friend.  Others in the community who know what really happened view them as “Joran’s butt-buddies” who are willing to “take the fall for him” because of their own stupidity and desire for 15 minutes of fame.

The recordings in the police van are the most revealing for me.

“If they find the girl, you are going to get 15 years.  “If they find the girl, they are going to see all that shit.”  “Your own father, unbelievable.”  See Father has promised K2 if they keep him and Joran out of this, they will have free rein in Aruba, to do as they please, to come and go and no harassment about those nasty little immigration rules. 

(Edited):  Joran states: "If they find the girl, I will laugh."  He is alluding to the fact that she was taken out so far, perhaps close to Venezuela that she will never be found.

These two are still falling on their own pitards and it is too late to turn back now because they are suing Dr. Phil for their own words on that tape which has been proven to be uncut by the FBI.  What these two “fall guys” do not realize is that they sued Dr. Phil at the urging of AHATA who were tired of them and were trying to cut the umbilical cord and “doctored” a tape for the Kalpoes to use.  That is not the original tape and a few people in Aruba know that, but they gave them the doctored tape, hoping that would get them off their backs and at very least, they would be able to stay occupied by suing Dr. Phil instead of fingering bubba and poppa.

K2 allowed Paulus to build this house of cards for them.  They are trapped in it and have no way out now.  It's too late.  Skeeters would have listened and helped, Cliff Van Zant would have listened and helped.  They had faith that it was Joran alone, but K2 refused the help offered.  The cards about to fall and Dr. Phil's suit will be for naught.

[kippy]

I am thinking this story has less to do about Natalee and more about protecting PVS.  Its all about the coverup. They could care less about Natalee, to them she was an accident.  Maybe Juron isn't as stupid as we think.  Maybe he knew exactly what he was doing/telling.  It would make much more sense to sacrafice Juron (or let him sacrafice himself)  knowing his punishment wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, than to let the secrets of PVS and his cronies out. The consequences of PVS being investigated would be much more embarrasing to the Island and involve so many high up people.  By telling his tales he is protecting everyone involved except himself, which doesn't seem to be his style.  Juron will get the punishment, everyone else is protected, we go away (they wish) and life goes on on the sinking island of Aruba.  JMO

I don't know if that even makes sense to anyone, its late here and I appologize.

[Magnolia]

Somebody has told this seizure story before!  Why else would they
be asking Dave if Natalee had ever had seizures?

[cubbeegirl]

I am thinking this story has less to do about Natalee and more about protecting PVS.  Its all about the coverup. They could care less about Natalee, to them she was an accident.  Maybe Juron isn't as stupid as we think.  Maybe he knew exactly what he was doing/telling.  It would make much more sense to sacrafice Juron (or let him sacrafice himself)  knowing his punishment wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, than to let the secrets of PVS and his cronies out. The consequences of PVS being investigated would be much more embarrasing to the Island and involve so many high up people.  By telling his tales he is protecting everyone involved except himself, which doesn't seem to be his style.  Juron will get the punishment, everyone else is protected, we go away (they wish) and life goes on on the sinking island of Aruba.  JMO

I don't know if that even makes sense to anyone, its late here and I appologize.

Kippy, you are right , they don't care one wit about Natalee or her family....
You are also right that they wish we would go away......

[Tamikosmom]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003741183_aruba09.html

As missing-teen case cools, Aruba turns against family
By Carol J. Williams
Los Angeles Times

"I've spoken with all of the suspects," she said. "I don't believe any of them did anything to her."

[Destiny]

Okaydokey.  I am going to take a shot at some of the mysteries of this whole thing.

Deepak and Satish wanted to be big men about town.  Their only way to achieve this was to chauffeur Joran around town and have the appearance of being “somebody,” while Joran was using them all the time for “a ride.”  Remember he says they have a “fat Toyota” in his statement.  Short of knowing the strict translation, I am going to take that to mean, it was a “hot car.”  It looked good to the girls and the guys were in envy, a perfect ride for a “sporter” to have his “slaves” drive him into the evening with his latest conquests. 

In some sick way, K2 got a thrill from this and perhaps they were voyeurs , or not.  There is the mention of “the tape” that “the girl” would find repulsing.  I think at that point, even Deepak and Satish realize they have pushed too far.  Natalee thinks K2 are the jerks and demands they leave her and Joran along the beach.  She has seen the sharks, she has been in the car with them.  They acquiesce and leave Joran and Natalee at the beach, which is probably more than even Joran had bargained for.  He now has Natalee alone, and he can take advantage of her in anyway, shape, form or fashion.

Deepak states in his Skeeters tape that “she was beautiful, she looked like an angel,” or something to that effect.  I feel that he was pretty glommed by Natalee when she was dancing and could only dream of what it would be like to be with her, so he goes on line with his friend, Croes, and lives a fantasy as if he was in a porn chat room.  He is fantasizing at this point.

Later, he finds out what Joran has done because Joran calls him in need of help.  The long phone call.  Joran is holding while Deepak is trying to find an accomplice to get the mess straightened out, a friend with a boat.  Deepak and Satish realize at this point they need to clean the car because this is bigger than it was when they left them alone on the beach. 

Fine friend Joran is now, but it’s too late.  Deepak is the adult.  Paulus has been summoned to pay the bifrons.  His wheels are turning.  He needs to get Satish and Deepak into this so they can help Joran cover his tracks (or at least make up new tracks and new trails not covered).  Paulus has done one of these boys a legal favor, not sure which but it has something to do with a car, a “choller” and a gun.  These guys are not as street-savvy as they think they are and know little about the law, so Paulus has them “over the barrel,” those same old platitudes rushing forth about Deepak being held responsible since he was seen driving the car, the adult, the owner of the car, etc., etc. 

Deepak and Satish have been admonished to stick with the story.  Enter Steve Croes who has witnessed this.  He has told someone and it got back to D&S Kalpoe that he wants to be paid off for what he saw.  He loses his job for some reason and he is rewarded with a better job at C&C, thanks to the owner, who knows girls are being drugged there and SGC can prove it, so he is rewarded with a job to keep quiet.

Deepak and Satish are in this up to their eyeballs now, yet Deepak keeps trying to make Satish appear innocent.  They now view themselves as folk heroes on Aruba, to be celebrated for outsmarting an American woman looking for her daughter.  They make public appearances at such places at C&C, thinking that girls will be falling all over them and short of that, now they are stuck.  That did not happen.  No one is willing to run the risk of being their best friend.  Others in the community who know what really happened view them as “Joran’s butt-buddies” who are willing to “take the fall for him” because of their own stupidity and desire for 15 minutes of fame.

The recordings in the police van are the most revealing for me.

“If they find the girl, you are going to get 15 years.  “If they find the girl, they are going to see all that shit.”  “Your own father, unbelievable.”  See Father has promised K2 if they keep him and Joran out of this, they will have free rein in Aruba, to do as they please, to come and go and no harassment about those nasty little immigration rules. 

These two are still falling on their own pitards and it is too late to turn back now because they are suing Dr. Phil for their own words on that tape which has been proven to be uncut by the FBI.  What these two “fall guys” do not realize is that they sued Dr. Phil at the urging of AHATA who were tired of them and were trying to cut the umbilical cord and “doctored” a tape for the Kalpoes to use.  That is not the original tape and a few people in Aruba know that, but they gave them the doctored tape, hoping that would get them off their backs and at very least, they would be able to stay occupied by suing Dr. Phil instead of fingering bubba and poppa.

K2 allowed Paulus to build this house of cards for them.  They are trapped in it and have no way out now.  It's too late.  Skeeters would have listened and helped, Cliff Van Zant would have listened and helped.  They had faith that it was Joran alone, but K2 refused the help offered.  The cards about to fall and Dr. Phil's suit will be for naught.

Tylergal....AWSOME!!!!!

What a read....WOW.....I'll be first in line to buy your book...

Dest

[Observer]

YouTube of the confession part with English subtitles although sometimes they are hard to read:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmNyRMUYCNo

This has got to be Lorenzo or Koen!!!!!But Koen is not really older.MO

"Its a Big Ocean"
"The time I spent her was max 3.5 hours" 12:30 to 4am?
"I was very lucky to get away with it"
"If they would have found the girl I would have been screwed"
"She will never be found again"
"They dropped her into the sea?Yes? Yes"
"Im prefer not to tell names,Because he has always had my back"
"Look,this friend is quite clever and he's a bit older,We have been friends since kids"
"I've never told anyone about this man.Its not easy"
"I'll never tell his name,I will take it to my grave"
"I'd give my life to help him"

[Tylergal]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003741183_aruba09.html

As missing-teen case cools, Aruba turns against family
By Carol J. Williams
Los Angeles Times

"I've spoken with all of the suspects," she said. "I don't believe any of them did anything to her."

She can't see beyond the war protestors and her Birkenstocks.

[Tamikosmom]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003741183_aruba09.html

As missing-teen case cools, Aruba turns against family
By Carol J. Williams
Los Angeles Times

"I've spoken with all of the suspects," she said. "I don't believe any of them did anything to her."

Julia Renfro
Seattle Times
June 4, 2007

[Anna]

Somebody has told this seizure story before!  Why else would they
be asking Dave if Natalee had ever had seizures?

Yes, ALE has heard this all before.  In his recent interview with Dana, Jug, too, said he was asked if Natalee had a history of seizures or epilepsy. 

Why on earth would ALE be asking these parents about this if they had not heard Joran's version of events in the past.

And since there was no history, it's too much of a stretch to take Joran's word that this just happened without any reason.

.

[Spock]

I think if we knew the whole truth it would be even more shocking that what we think might have happened. I think the Kalpoes were sexually involved (deepak said as much in an email). I think Paulus was involved from the time Natalee died. Of course Joran, called his father when his date died. We know van stratten helped to undermine the investigation and that Jahnsen deliberately arrested the security gurds when she knew they were innocent. We know the Judges are personal friends of the Sloots and changed the search warrant to restrict the search. The crime itself was uglier than we can imagine, the talk of a head wound in the initial alibi was not misdirection. It was said because they feared the body could wash up, Joran even said he was lucky the body was not found. This is a hideous crime by three suspects with a government coverup.

Did you notice DeVries never mentioned the coverup? Thats because he knows only how far he can push the real story.

[wreck]

My head is spinning. I left at 4:10pm central when the SM server blew up.  All I can say is that De Vries nailed it. He did what no one else could hope to accomplish. As I warned before ... multiply his "confession" by 10 and you get the "big picture."