Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[KarmaRoundUp]

Posted on the front page of SM:   

LMAO!!!!!

[klaasend]

Posted at RU - this is a chat Joran just had with the publisher of his book.  Joran just can't stop talking:

This from an interview online:

Terwijl heel Nederland de huiveringwekkende bekentenis over Natalee Holloway op tv volgt, zit Joran van der Sloot te msn-en (alias: Joran Forc@ Barc@!! Schaak Master altijd 1 stap voor). Hij heeft geen idee over de verontwaardiging die hij heeft losgemaakt. Hij chat met een DAG-journaliste die een boek met hem schreef.
While Holland is watching his horrible confession about Natalee Holloway on the television, Joran is chatting using msn messenger (his alias: Joran Forc@ Barc@ Chess master, always 1 step ahead!). He has no clue about the indignation he caused. He chats with an DAG-reporter who co-wrote his book.

Joran Forc@ Barc@!! Schaak Master, altijd 1 stap voor: Hoi, hoe gaat 'ie
Hi, how are you?
Z: Wat is nou de waarheid?
What is the truth?
J: Ha ha, je weet het zelf niet meer. Kom op Zvezdana. Ik heb toch ook tegen de recherche geluld. Dit wordt ook gewoon een lulverhaal want het klopt niet, maar dat maakt het in mijn ogen misschien nog erger.

Hahah, you dont remember anymore. Come on Zvezdana. I have also lied to the police. This is just a piece of shit (or: a story he made up), because it isnt correct, but maybe what I`m concerned, this makes it only worse.
Z: Zit je nou in Friesland?
Are you in Friesland (=one of the northern states of Holland_J: Ik ben ergens waar niemand het weet en misschien moet ik Nederland wel verlaten.
I am somewhere no one knows and I might have to leave Holland.
Z: Wegens dreigementen?

Because of threats?
J: Denk niet meer dat ik hier naar school kan.
I dont think I`ll be able to go to school here anymore.
Z: Euh... nee.
Uh..No.
J: Nee, maar een hoop mensen zijn boos.
No, but a lot of people are mad.
Z: Dat snap ik wel. Je hebt heel duidelijk en kil verteld dat je een meisje dood hebt laten gaan en in zee hebt gepleurd. Wat zeiden je ouders?
I can understand. You told really clear and cold how you let a girl die and tossed her body in the ocean. What did your parents say?
J: Zij weten ook wel dat het een lulverhaal is. Vanaf hoe ik m'n litteken heb gekregen tot aan alles. Ik was behoorlijk stoned. Ik ben 8 maanden met hem omgegaan hè, dus je hoort nu alleen wat zij willen.

They know its a piece of shit. From how I got my scar to everything. I was pretty stoned. I hang around with for 8 month, so now you only hear what they want you to hear.

Z: Besef je hoe erg het is? Denkt je advocaat dat je weer wordt opgepakt?

Do you understand how bad it is? Does your attorney think they`ll arrest you once again?

J: Nee, hij denkt van niet, maar je weet het nooit, en ja, ik weet hoe erg het is. Ja, sorry voel me ook niet zo goed.

No, he thinks not, but you`ll never know and yes, I know how bad it is. Yes. I don’t feel well either.
Z: Waar voel je je niet goed over? Dat de hele wereld dit ziet en nooit meer gelooft wat je over Natalee zegt?

Where do you feel bad about? The whole world watching this and not believing anything you say about Natalee anymore?

J: Allebei.

Both.

Z: Heb je gehuild toen je het zag?

Did you cry when you were watching the broadcast?

J: Nee, ik huil niet. Ik heb het samen met Leon (advocaat, red.) bekeken. Kijk, ik wist wat ging komen. Was precies hoe ik dacht. Jammer dat ze alles weg hebben geknipt wat Patrick zei.

No, I never cry. I watched it together with Leon (lawyer). Look, I knew what was coming. It was exactly what I thought it would be. Too bad they cut out everything Patrick said.
Z: Maar wat vonden je ouders ervan?

What did your parents think?

J: Ja, ik had ze al alles verteld. Ze hebben meegeluisterd via de telefoon.

Yes, I told them already everything. They listened to the broadcast by phone.

Ik heb er niet voor gekozen om dit met de buitenwereld te delen. Ik dacht: gewoon een gesprek tussen mij en m'n dealer. Ik vertel hem wel wat hij wil horen.

It wasnt my choice to share this with the world. I thought: just a conversation between me and my dealer. I`ll just tell him what he wants to hear.

Z: Wiet? Gaf hij je ook coke?

Weed? Did he give you coke also?

J: Nee mij niet maar hij snuift zelf zo veel dat zijn neus bloedt.

No, not to me, but he sniffs (as in: uses cocaine) so much his nose bleeds all the time.

Z: En hebben jullie samen meisjes gedaan op hotelkamer?

Did you do some girls together in a hotelroom?

J: Ja allemaal. Erg he.

Yes, everything. Bad huh?

Z: Hoe kan jij nog aantonen dat meer van wat er is uitgezonden gelul is?

How can you prove that the footage is bullshit?


J: Ja, niks ervan gaat kloppen, dus dan moet het wel gelul zijn toch. Het OM gaat dit zeker onderzoeken maar als ze niks vinden? Dan kan het toch niet waar zijn?

Yes, nothing is going to add up, so it must be bullshit right? The OM is definetly going to investigate this, but if they don’t find anything? Then it cant be true, right?

Z: Je sprak over een medeplichtige half-Arubaan, half-Nederlands, woont hier, ietsje ouder. Ik dacht...

You talked about a accomplice. Half aruban, half dutch. Livs here, a but older. I thought…

J: Haha, je bent te erg Zvezdana. Denk je echt dat iemand dat 3 jaar lang voor zichzelf houdt?

Hahaha, youre too bad Zvezdana. Do you really think someone will keep this a secret for 3 years?

Kan toch niet, welke reden zou die daar voor hebben?

J: Cant be, what reason would that person have?


Z: Ik snap gewoon niet goed waarom je nu voor het eerst een heel gedetailleerd verhaal bij elkaar ‘liegt’ en zegt dat je er wel iets mee te maken hebt. Wat heb je daar zelf nou aan?

I dont understand why you at this moment, for the first time, will make up a pretty detailed story and say you did have something to do with it. Whats in it for you?

J:Hij beloofde me veel geld. Hij deed zich voor als een echte gangster

He promised me a lot of money. He pretended to be a real gangster.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thanks, Klaas.

Spock, who is KD????

[Lala'sMom]

Who was on the beach after 2K left?

NH
JVDS
PVDS
SC?
GW?

Who was the friend with the boat?

LVR?
KG?
SG?
SC?

Who did JVDS call?

PVDS

Who did KD call?

SC

The music man...the music man.  He provided an alibi without asking. He needed to make this work, because he was involved.  The DJ was the vessel...he was there...on the beach that night...he was the easiest and most convenient person there. Paulus paid him from the ATM that morning and has been paying him ever since.  The cover up went higher...higher...higher.

[Buckeye]

Let me see if I have this straight...Joe T wants me to believe that Joran was stoned during the confession:

On thing that you'll see in this tape recording that you've played earlier is he said, the undercover said "In a boat?" and Joran paused and said "yes". Understand that each and every one of these conversations are after there was marijuana induced, introduced into the set, this undercover if you will provided Joran with drugs, marijuana, things like that, said things, he was acting like an idiot quite frankly but don't forget this individual just said he was making himself out to be a mobster, a criminal, a big individual and I think Joran was just playing this game.


but yet Joran was sober/ clever enough to reason the guy was playing him so he would tell him what he wanted to hear...

He was stoned and of clear thought during the taping??  Did he say that??

[blah]

Posted at RU - this is a chat Joran just had with the publisher of his book.  Joran just can't stop talking:

This from an interview online:

Terwijl heel Nederland de huiveringwekkende bekentenis over Natalee Holloway op tv volgt, zit Joran van der Sloot te msn-en (alias: Joran Forc@ Barc@!! Schaak Master altijd 1 stap voor). Hij heeft geen idee over de verontwaardiging die hij heeft losgemaakt. Hij chat met een DAG-journaliste die een boek met hem schreef.
While Holland is watching his horrible confession about Natalee Holloway on the television, Joran is chatting using msn messenger (his alias: Joran Forc@ Barc@ Chess master, always 1 step ahead!). He has no clue about the indignation he caused. He chats with an DAG-reporter who co-wrote his book.

Joran Forc@ Barc@!! Schaak Master, altijd 1 stap voor: Hoi, hoe gaat 'ie
Hi, how are you?
Z: Wat is nou de waarheid?
What is the truth? 

this thing is so staged that its pathetic.

So transparent that it must have been Tacos idea.

Keep up the shitty job Taco - you having a contest with your client to see who can sink him the fastest??

[Buckeye]

I would add Val to the list.  He was up that night...he may have been the driver and he is a scuba diver...he may have had access to a boat.


Check the phone records at the Raquet Club....PLEASE....

[klaasend]

Thanks, Klaas.

Spock, who is KD????

I think Spock meant DK = Deepak Kalpoe

[Lala'sMom]

They know its a piece of shit. From how I got my scar to everything. I was pretty stoned. I hang around with for 8 month, so now you only hear what they want you to hear.


What scar?  WTH? 

[Buckeye]

Maybe they want him to take the Mental Health option so they will all make him look nuts...

[Blue Moon]

Quote from Greta's blog:  (she is still not off the hook for supporting Joran )

Comment by Catherine Bonito
February 3rd, 2008 at 9:49 pm

I find it extremely difficult not to blame the Arubian police for their mishandling of this case from day one. The three suspects roamed free, covering their tracks, and them were taken into custody and contineously lied, further hampering the investigation. I have vacationed many times on the beautiful beaches of Aruba, but I can promise you this, I will never go back. Their total disregard for the life of a beautiful eighteen year old American girl has changed my attitude toward the police, and I fear what the response would be, if any, in an emergency. I would also discourage anyone I know and care about from vacationing on the island. My thoughts and prayers are with Beth and the entire family of Natalie.

[ldstlou]

GMA Feb 4, 2008 Beth / Joe Tacopina / Patrick van der Eem

Beth with Diane Sawyer
Good Morning America
February 4, 2008

Beth Holloway
Joe Tacopina
Patrick van der Eem

** I missed the beginning of this, but they may replay it later.
Strange how Diane Sawyer appeared much more distraught by this
story than Beth did.

Diane:

Beth, are you in any way troubled by the method? As we know someone was paid to use hidden cameras in order to obtain this. Are you at all bothered by that?

Beth:

Ohhhh, no I think that, no, it was just a way to capture the truth for once. I mean everyone had tried to no avail and it's just amazing that, how it unfolded and that's what it took to finally capture the truth from Joran and that is what we received, so I mean I think it's a gift that what we were given from him.

Diane:

Again, I want to go back to you as a mother looking at this tape and the coarse words from this young man. When you saw the tape, was that the moment you said goodbye to hope/ Was it a moment that you said a farewell to Natalee in a different way?

Beth:

Well, it was Diane and for the first time I felt I put an end to my nightmare and the nightmare is the not knowing and I feel as if now that I can begin the mourning and the healing process for losing a child.

You just, even though you know there's only 1% chance, you know you can't, that's still you know, that's something that's in the back of your mind, you know, just the not knowing. Also you begin to even doubt the whole mission, why, who am I hanging on to as far as her perpetrators and now it's all brought to light and gosh I just couldn't take more comfort in knowing now what actually happened

Diane:

Beth, thank you for being with us and as always, our hearts go to you.

Beth:

Oh, thank you Diane

Good Morning America
February 4, 2008

7,000,000 people watched that 2 hour special containing all the footage of those secret tapes last night. Keep in mind there are only 17,000,000 people in that entire country, so it shows how this has captured the world's attention.

This morning we have an exclusive interview with the man who went under cover and set the trap that could break this case wide open.

Chris Cuomo as you know, live in Amsterdam for us this morning. Chris?

Cuomo:

Robin, the man you're about to meet believed he could do what no one else has. He describes himself as the ultimate concerned citizen. He's not a cop, he's not a reporter and that might have been the key to his success in getting Joran van der Sloot to admit his role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Patrick:

How can you sleep, I did this thing, I had a lot of days I couldn't sleep and I wasn't harming nobody

Cuomo:

When was the first time you met Joran?

Patrick:

I went to the casino, I went over to him, he was playing the game and the first thing I said to him was "hey, matong", that means "hey, murderer" but in a funny kind of way you know

Cuomo:

Why did you say it that way?

Patrick:

Because it's the truth. I never planned him for being my friend, he was never my friend.

(play videotape)

Cuomo:

This is 34 year old Patrick van der Eem, married father of 2, born in the Antilles, filled with Dutch pride and disgust for what's believed to be Joran van der Sloot's lies. He decided to do what no one else had: get the truth out of van der Sloot. So for 6 months, up to 8 hours a day he palled around with Joran, mostly cruising, all a part of a carefully crafted scheme.

(end videotape)

Cuomo:

And why did you want this?

Patrick:

Why did I want this? It's obvious, everybody was looking for the truth, for a mother.

Cuomo:

And when you saw him in the casino, you thought this was your chance?

Patrick:

And I will finish him

Cuomo:

What was the game? How were you presenting yourself to him?

Patrick:

As a gangster, a big one

Cuomo:

Despite having no training, he posed as a dealer looking to set up an operation and the key was he ignored any talk about Natalee Holloway. With the foundation layed, he called television journalist Peter de Vries who hired him.

Patrick:

I had my Range Rover waiting all that time, the cameras, everything in it, people waiting outside filming, we were all ready for him

Cuomo:

And he took the opportunity and started to talk?

Patrick:

(snaps his finger) the minute he got in my Range Rover. He's telling about the (inaudible) dying of Natalee Holloway in his hands and without any emotion, you know I felt sometime I had to cry but I had to keep it in you know, but as soon as he'd get out of the car, my tears were coming, BANG.

Cuomo:

Joran told him he called a friend and they used a boat to dump the body. At one point Joran even brags about his ability to outsmart the authorities.

(play videotape)

Joran:

I played it right though, I played the whole thing right in the beginning. I can tell them whatever they want. If they can't get any evidence against me, then yeah, they won't be able to screw me

(end videotape)

Cuomo:

You said it's like a chess game

Patrick:

But I'm finished, it's checkmate.

Cuomo:

And so Patrick has outsmartted Joran getting the 20 year old to make this startling admission

(play videotape)

Joran:

So we took her to the boat

Patrick:

Carried her?

Joran:

Yes, the two of us

Patrick:

And no one saw you even then?

Joran:

No one

(end videotape)

Cuomo:

An admission that now brings two strangers, a mother and an informant together

(play videotape of Patrick and Beth)

Beth:

with doe eyes fixed
on Patrick "Patrick, you ended my nightmare

Patrick:

I'm happy

Beth:

You, ended my nightmare

(end videotape)

Cuomo:

Do you have any feeling of betrayal, that you betrayed him?

Patrick:

No, you betrayed my country and you betrayed the whole world Joran, this is your punishment

(end interview)

Cuomo:

You know, I asked him 'why didn't you keep going with this Patrick, maybe you could have found out something about exactly how Natalee Holloway died that's different than what you'd heard. He said he couldn't take it anymore emotionally, that literally it was too much sitting in that car pretending not to care about something that as a father and as a human he just couldn't withstand.

He says he doesn't care what the prosecutors do with this tape, now that it has aired, it will condemn Joran van der Sloot to a life of shame and he says that's punishment enough.

GMA:

Joining us now is Joran van der Sloot's attorney, Joseph Tacopina, to get this side of the story. Thank you Joe for being here.

We know that the prosecutors are asking for the case to be re-opened but right now they're not going to re-arrest your client?

Joe:

Well they tried. The prosecution had this tape for over a week and they struggled with the evidenciary value of it because they didn't even seek to re-arrest Joran for a week. They've arrested him twice in this case with no evidence. They went to a Judge finally after we sort of questioned why they wouldn't even seek an arrest and Joran denied Joran's arrest last night, which speaks volumes for the evidenciary value of this tape.

There are problems inherent in the tape, many of the facts are easily disprovable based on corroborative evidence. No one's asking at this point, certainly I'm not asking anyone to believe Joran, or any of his statements. Clearly his credibility is zero, but look separately, look independently at what he's saying are the facts in this case, the evidence and his story is inconsistent as it was

GMA:

Why would he lie like that?

Joe:

Well look, you know that is the toughest question but the facts are easily disprovable. The guy allegedly with the boat, Daury, wasn't even in Aruba in May of 2005, he's never owned a boat, Joran didn't meet him until 2 months ago so he made up these facts.

On thing that you'll see in this tape recording that you've played earlier is he said, the undercover said "In a boat?" and Joran paused and said "yes". Understand that each and every one of these conversations are after there was marijuana induced, introduced into the set, this undercover if you will provided Joran with drugs, marijuana, things like that, said things, he was acting like an idiot quite frankly but don't forget this individual just said he was making himself out to be a mobster, a criminal, a big individual and I think Joran was just playing this game.

He's [inaudible) about a lot of other things too independent of this investigation.

GMA:

But why would he go into such great detail. For Joran to know that people have suspected him and to go into such great detail, to talk with someone as he did with this informant, has a lot of people saying, at the very least, if he did not kill her, that he was there and was involved in the disappearance and wasn't that a crime in itself?

Joe:

Well actually no, there is no admission. This thing has been deemed a confession and that was done for ratings for this guy's show in The Netherlands last night. It was deemed a confession, there's no confession, there's no admission of a crime by Joran in any of these tapes, which is very telling, I mean that's one of the things the prosecution

GMA:

But to say that he was there, that she may still have been alive when she was thrown into the water?

Joe:

No, no, he didn't say that. There are various portions of this tape where his story is drastically different and that's part of the reason, you know he doesn't have details that are accurrate, his story changes over 20 hours but what he says is she died, he panicked and called a friend from a payphone, which by the way is disprovable because the Aruban Coast Guard has already looked at that payphone and there's no such call, we have the records.

GMA:

What are the authorities telling you right now?

Joe:

They're looking at the case again, which they should do. Joran deserves this if you will, but the fact of the matter is he's still not responsible, the evidence, not Joran, the evidence says he's not responsible for Natalee's death.

GMA:

Joseph Tacopina, thank you very much.

I cannot believe that Diane Sawyer implied that Beth should somehow be uncomfortable about the method which the confession from Joran was obtained.  It was not like the truth was beaten out of him.  He was given the rope and ... he hanged himself.

Janet

Patric is a hero in my book, thats for sure

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thanks, Klaas.

Spock, who is KD????

I think Spock meant DK = Deepak Kalpoe

   Now that makes sense....why my brain didn't figure it out, don't know.  Thanks, again.

[bleachedblack]

.........I'm thinking 2 dawgs came not just 1.

[2NJSons_Mom]

They know its a piece of shit. From how I got my scar to everything. I was pretty stoned. I hang around with for 8 month, so now you only hear what they want you to hear.


What scar?  WTH? 

Yep, I wondered about that, too. 

[klaasend]

They know its a piece of shit. From how I got my scar to everything. I was pretty stoned. I hang around with for 8 month, so now you only hear what they want you to hear.


What scar?  WTH? 

Yep, I wondered about that, too. 

Something to do with a scar he got on his head.  He told Patrick it was from a fight in a casino but according to Joran it actually happened from a fall at home or something like that.

[2NJSons_Mom]

They know its a piece of shit. From how I got my scar to everything. I was pretty stoned. I hang around with for 8 month, so now you only hear what they want you to hear.


What scar?  WTH? 

Yep, I wondered about that, too. 

Something to do with a scar he got on his head.  He told Patrick it was from a fight in a casino but according to Joran it actually happened from a fall at home or something like that.

I don't remember reading it....

[crazybabyborg]

Posted at RU - this is a chat Joran just had with the publisher of his book.  Joran just can't stop talking:

This from an interview online:

Terwijl heel Nederland de huiveringwekkende bekentenis over Natalee Holloway op tv volgt, zit Joran van der Sloot te msn-en (alias: Joran Forc@ Barc@!! Schaak Master altijd 1 stap voor). Hij heeft geen idee over de verontwaardiging die hij heeft losgemaakt. Hij chat met een DAG-journaliste die een boek met hem schreef.
While Holland is watching his horrible confession about Natalee Holloway on the television, Joran is chatting using msn messenger (his alias: Joran Forc@ Barc@ Chess master, always 1 step ahead!). He has no clue about the indignation he caused. He chats with an DAG-reporter who co-wrote his book.

Joran Forc@ Barc@!! Schaak Master, altijd 1 stap voor: Hoi, hoe gaat 'ie
Hi, how are you?
Z: Wat is nou de waarheid?
What is the truth? 

this thing is so staged that its pathetic.

So transparent that it must have been Tacos idea.

Keep up the shitty job Taco - you having a contest with your client to see who can sink him the fastest??

Absolutely! Thanks for saving me the typing. You said it exactly right!

[thirdstrike]

...but yet Joran was sober/ clever enough to reason the guy was playing him so he would tell him what he wanted to hear...

He was stoned and of clear thought during the taping??  Did he say that??

That's a very good point Buckeye! I mean, he's of clear enough mind to say he was lying, yet Taco's defense of the comments was that he was under the influence of drugs when he made them?  Is that right?

Everybody knows that the use of drugs and/or alcohol lowers inhibitions.  How many of us have either been drunk, or knew someone who was drunk, who've said something they shouldn't have...even though it was 100% true?  When I was much younger, I've drunk dialed once or twice...only to be extremely embarrassed the next day!  If anything, his being "high" during this confession IMO tends to authenticate it...

[pinkbanana]

They know its a piece of shit. From how I got my scar to everything. I was pretty stoned. I hang around with for 8 month, so now you only hear what they want you to hear.


What scar?  WTH? 

Yep, I wondered about that, too. 

Something to do with a scar he got on his head.  He told Patrick it was from a fight in a casino but according to Joran it actually happened from a fall at home or something like that.

Maybe Anita hit him with one of her bras....

d