Natalee Case Discussion #722 2/4 - 2/5/08am

[cubbeegirl]

Maybe I'm the biggest idiot to ever travel to Aruba... but ... but..

why ALL THIS over Joran's little "accidental death" ????

I am still not convinced the Sloot house is not involved. They want the crime away from that house.

Because it brought world wide attention to what a dirtbag Joran is and that he indeed knows what happened. Very different then what the sporter told the TV cameras in other interviews. Everyone should know they were at the Sloot house and PVDS was involved,he can talk about the beach all he likes but the bullseye remains on that house,the father and the son.

Agreed..... keep the crime away from the house..... I think Beth is right and Natalee was at that house....

[tidycat]

The ALE knew what the "something bad" was that happened on June 10th.  Joran told them she had a seizure and died.  Paulus knew.  And he knew they had dumped her body in the water. 

And none of them had the decency or the guts to do the right thing.  It would have been so much easier on Joran, Deepak and Satish, the entire VDS family and the entire island if they had just done the right thing.  Not to mention the incredible pain and suffering of Natalee's entire family.  This is so incomprehensible.

[Anna]

OMG - you aren't going to believe this.  Posted by MF at RU - no link to the article in Dutch of course:

Is he saying Natalee was allergic to Joran's semen? 

Did Dan Riehl write that? 

 How gross.. !!  Allergic to Semen. I have HEARD it all now.. 

Yesterday, he mentions her getting him off.  He said he realized she was dead and he was just going to ask her for a bj.  I think that is another place where he gave too much info.  He didn't have to say what he says he never got.  We all know from his old girlfriend--who is pro Joran, that Joran likes rough sex. 

The rest is not for the weak stomached.

I think he was forcing himself in her mouth and she vomited.  I think she choked both on him and her vomit.   

I think he is that vile, to do that.

A few years back that happened to a young boy who was kidnapped by a pedophile in Chattanooga.  His body was found in a closet where he aspirated on his own vomit.  It does happen horrible as it is to contemplate.  Because of it happening locally here, it has been a horror of mine for some time now and is possible.

We will likely never know the details and even when Joran talks, hard to tell which lies to believe and which ones to disregard.

But the fact he disposed of the remains says he is guilty of some dreadful wrong doing.

.

[crazybabyborg]

Joran said he was soo lucky her body wasn't found, and yeah, maybe he referring to his semen, but I don't think so. Deepak said, If they find her, they'll see that shit. Joran didn't even address why he didn't go for help, or call for help when, according to him, she just started to "seize". There was "shit" to see, obvious shit, about her body that wasn't caused by seizures. MOO

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Hey, Lala'smom!  It is indeed the Supreme Blueness here.  So good to hear from you. . . .with or without a tiara!!

  If Lalas has a tiaria on her head.. myself and a few others wil knock it right off.  LMAO 

[BlueBob]

Hi, Red and Ang!!  Muy bueno to hear from you guys.  Lots of memories are flooding back!!  Red, I hope you are considering writing a book!!

[Rob]

Maybe I'm the biggest idiot to ever travel to Aruba... but ... but..

why ALL THIS over Joran's little "accidental death" ????

I am still not convinced the Sloot house is not involved. They want the crime away from that house.

Because it brought world wide attention to what a dirtbag Joran is and that he indeed knows what happened. Very different then what the sporter told the TV cameras in other interviews. Everyone should know they were at the Sloot house and PVDS was involved,he can talk about the beach all he likes but the bullseye remains on that house,the father and the son.

this is the sickest part of the crime...

just wait...

[Noly]

OMG - you aren't going to believe this.  Posted by MF at RU - no link to the article in Dutch of course:

Is he saying Natalee was allergic to Joran's semen? 

Did Dan Riehl write that? 

 How gross.. !!  Allergic to Semen. I have HEARD it all now.. 

Yesterday, he mentions her getting him off.  He said he realized she was dead and he was just going to ask her for a bj.  I think that is another place where he gave too much info.  He didn't have to say what he says he never got.  We all know from his old girlfriend--who is pro Joran, that Joran likes rough sex. 

The rest is not for the weak stomached.

I think he was forcing himself in her mouth and she vomited.  I think she choked both on him and her vomit.   

I think he is that vile, to do that.

that is what i think too.  that's why i posted his quote last night.  i can see that happening!

(that is...if i believe this beach story as he is telling it)

[Anna]

The ALE knew what the "something bad" was that happened on June 10th.  Joran told them she had a seizure and died.  Paulus knew.  And he knew they had dumped her body in the water. 

And none of them had the decency or the guts to do the right thing.  It would have been so much easier on Joran, Deepak and Satish, the entire VDS family and the entire island if they had just done the right thing.  Not to mention the incredible pain and suffering of Natalee's entire family.  This is so incomprehensible.

And as recently as the wine throwing program, the Sloots were promoting the idea that Natalee was still alive and might have just run away because of abuse at home.

Double shame on them all!

[Puzzler]

At the beginning of the 20/20 show, Joran was just back in Holland after being in jail in Aruba in November.  Joran seemed very happy and relaxed to see Patrick.  I believe at that point and for a little while he was probably fairly truthful (or as truthful as Joran gets) and that's important because he was excitedly talking about how he was going to get a lot of money out of this and how dumb the police were and he just looked at them and said nothing.  That he was free of this....and there was quite a look of satisfaction on his face...he'd been more lucky than he thought he would be....a tiny smile of satisfaction..(he gambled and won).  But at some point, Patrick asked him about a boat and you see Joran hesitate for a little bit (looked to me like he had just realized that Patrick was trying to get information out of him...Patrick had an agenda) and after that the comments seemed to get a little more wild. 

Now.....was that because Joran was just saying anything that he thought Patrick wanted to hear OR was Joran being defiant, taking another gamble, and letting more of the real truth come out to see if he'd be lucky again.

If Joran has an addictive personality: drugs, gambling, sex.  Why wouldn't he be addicted to the thrill of taking a chance at "out-smarting Patrick, too"?  After all, he was so sure he'd out smarted everyone else.

By the way, am I the only one that noticed how large one of Joran's nose holes is?  (The camera kept showing a shot of Joran, looking up at him from down below: the hole on the right at you looked at the screen).

 

[Anna]

Hi, Red and Ang!!  Muy bueno to hear from you guys.  Lots of memories are flooding back!!  Red, I hope you are considering writing a book!!

So glad to see you BlueBob!

No body puts Baby in the corner used to be your sig line and my all time fav.  It was something like that anyway.  I was sad when you stopped posting and am so glad to see you tonight on this night of satisfaction that millions now know the story.

.

[cubbeegirl]

Joran said he was soo lucky her body wasn't found, and yeah, maybe he referring to his semen, but I don't think so. Deepak said, If they find her, they'll see that shit. Joran didn't even address why he didn't go for help, or call for help when, according to him, she just started to "seize". There was "shit" to see, obvious shit, about her body that wasn't caused by seizures. MOO

Right ..... at the risk of repeating myself.... cause "Natalee fell and hit her head"

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Maybe I'm the biggest idiot to ever travel to Aruba... but ... but..

why ALL THIS over Joran's little "accidental death" ????

I am still not convinced the Sloot house is not involved. They want the crime away from that house.

Because it brought world wide attention to what a dirtbag Joran is and that he indeed knows what happened. Very different then what the sporter told the TV cameras in other interviews. Everyone should know they were at the Sloot house and PVDS was involved,he can talk about the beach all he likes but the bullseye remains on that house,the father and the son.

this is the sickest part of the crime...

just wait...

 You got mail when you have a second to read it.. 

[Silverfox]

1. It would be a premeditated act to put a drug in someone's drink without their knowledge and consent.

2. Especially since apparently this is a pattern with many others before.

3. It would be a premeditated act to use a selection process (paulus in video) to select a victim in such a manner as to allow your mule (pimp, son) to carry out a plan to kidnap a victim (see 1 above).

Nobody can convince me that that those people (like the pimps) who use date rape drugs to subdue a victim are not aware of the dangers of toxic reactions, including death... with some victims...

4.  I suspect the missing shoes are missing because they have blood on them...

What we don't know is extent of the father's involvement.  He obviously is involved (see 3 above)... and probably is the one Joran is referring to who was called and who removed the body. 

sad...sad...sad...

[BlueBob]

Hola, Anna!!  I had forgotten that sig line.  Thanks for reminding me.  It is more true tonight when Beth is getting some justice.

[crazybabyborg]

At the beginning of the 20/20 show, Joran was just back in Holland after being in jail in Aruba in November.  Joran seemed very happy and relaxed to see Patrick.  I believe at that point and for a little while he was probably fairly truthful (or as truthful as Joran gets) and that's important because he was excitedly talking about how he was going to get a lot of money out of this and how dumb the police were and he just looked at them and said nothing.  That he was free of this....and there was quite a look of satisfaction on his face...he'd been more lucky than he thought he would be....a tiny smile of satisfaction..(he gambled and won).  But at some point, Patrick asked him about a boat and you see Joran hesitate for a little bit (looked to me like he had just realized that Patrick was trying to get information out of him...Patrick had an agenda) and after that the comments seemed to get a little more wild. 

Now.....was that because Joran was just saying anything that he thought Patrick wanted to hear OR was Joran being defiant, taking another gamble, and letting more of the real truth come out to see if he'd be lucky again.

If Joran has an addictive personality: drugs, gambling, sex.  Why wouldn't he be addicted to the thrill of taking a chance at "out-smarting Patrick, too"?  After all, he was so sure he'd out smarted everyone else.

By the way, am I the only one that noticed how large one of Joran's nose holes is?  (The camera kept showing a shot of Joran, looking up at him from down below: the hole on the right at you looked at the screen).

 

  I don't know about the nose hole thing, but I know exactly the part of the tape you are talking about. I WISH that Patrick had not suggested a boat to Joran, because that hestitation you were talking about made me wonder if Joran wasn't trying the idea on for fit. We'll never know, but I do wish Patrick had just let Joran talk at that point without interruption.

[Bearlyhere]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ARUBA_MISSING_TEEN?SITE=MOJOP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Feb 4, 11:12 PM EST

Aruba Sees Secret Video in Holloway Case
By MARGARET WEVER
Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) -- A hidden-camera interview with a Dutch student saying missing teenager Natalee Holloway was dead and that he had a friend dump her body at sea is admissible in court, the chief Aruban prosecutor said Monday.

The courts in Aruba will likely accept the tape as evidence because it was recorded by a private citizen without any influence by authorities, Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos told reporters.

"I take it very seriously," Mos said of the video.

The tape, which was first broadcast Sunday on Dutch television, has appeared to spur the investigation: Mos said authorities in the Netherlands searched two homes Monday where Joran Van der Sloot has lived while attending college there.

A judge in Aruba denied a prosecution request to detain Van der Sloot based on the new information. Mos said they will file an appeal Tuesday and expect a decision within a week.

The prosecutor declined to provide any details about the searches. Bert de Rooij, a lawyer for Van der Sloot in the Netherlands, said police took a hard drive and a laptop.

De Rooij, speaking on Dutch television Monday, said the college student would make himself available for questioning by authorities if necessary. "As far as Joran is concerned, that can happen soon," he told the news program "Nova."

In the secret recordings, Van der Sloot said Holloway, 18, was drunk and that she began shaking and slumped down on the beach as they were kissing in May 2005.

"Suddenly she started shaking and then she didn't say anything," Van der Sloot said in Dutch, adding that he did not kill her. "I would never murder a girl."

He said he panicked and tried but failed to revive her. He said that Holloway looked dead but that he could not be sure she was not still alive when a friend took her away. Van der Sloot identified the friend only as "Daury."

Chris Lejeuz, an attorney for a 21-year-old man named Daury Rodriguez, who is an associate of Van der Sloot's, appeared with his client at a news conference in Oranjestad Monday and denied his client had any role in Holloway's death.

Mos said prosecutors believe Van der Sloot was telling the truth in the video because he seemed to struggle as he told the story and repeated it several times.

"Now, whether that is the truth, that has to be seen ..." he said. "Finally the court will have to decide whether this is a declaration ... that we can use as evidence in this court of law."

In the interview, Van der Sloot speaks to Patrick van der Eem, a 34-year-old Dutch businessman who told ABC News that he befriended the younger man with the intention of prying a confession out of him.

Van der Eem said he spent about two months getting to know Van der Sloot, regularly smoking marijuana together and playing poker late into the night, the businessman approached Dutch television crime reporter Peter R. de Vries, who rigged up a new Range Rover with secret cameras to capture their conversations.

"Why did I want this? It's obvious. Everybody was looking for the truth for (Holloway's) mother," he told ABC News, which planned to broadcast the interview on its "20/20" program Monday night. "I'm a father. I have two children, a girl six years old and a boy two years old."

Van der Eem, who grew up in the Caribbean, said he was angry with Van der Sloot for damaging the reputation of Aruba and the Netherlands.

Joseph Tacopina, a lawyer for Van der Sloot, said his client was not responsible for the Alabama teenager's death and that the tapes do not amount to a confession.

"There was no confession, no admission of a crime by Joran on any of these tapes, which is very telling," Tacopina said on ABC's "Good Morning America."

Last week, Van der Sloot said he was lying in those conversations and denied that he had anything to do with Holloway's disappearance. In the secret footage, Van der Sloot spoke with a man he believed to be his friend, who gave him "drugs, marijuana, things like that," Tacopina told ABC.

But Natalee's mother, Beth Twitty, told ABC: "I don't think any of us are surprised by his reaction (that his comments were fiction), but I know one thing. Once people see the video of Joran there are no more questions. There is no one who can walk away from this believing that he is innocent."

She said Van der Sloot didn't even know if her daughter was alive or not.

"Natalee never even had the chance for a medical doctor or a coroner, anyone, to determine (if she was alive)," Twitty said.

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar with Van der Sloot and two Surinamese brothers hours before she was due to board a flight home.

The three were arrested shortly after her disappearance and again in November, but released for lack of evidence. Prosecutors then dismissed their case against them, saying they lacked evidence even to prove a crime. All three have always denied any role in her disappearance.

[mrs. red]

good nite monkeys...

see what keeping the faith does?  moves mountains...

we still have a HUGE mountain to move though... so keep the faith and keep up the pressure... move this mountain!! 

see y'all tomorrow....

[Anna]

HOLY COW ... DID YOU ALL CATCH THAT!!!

JVDS just volunteered the comment that it wasn't my parents who helped him.

NO ONE ASKED HIM THAT!!!

Why would he even make the comment.

Can you say Paulas VDS!!!

Bringing this forward from 'way back as it does bear some consideration.  And Steve Croes was the likely source for a boat early this morning.  They didn't keep him over a week for being a dumbass or they'd have half of Aruba locked up.

.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

good nite monkeys...

see what keeping the faith does?  moves mountains...

we still have a HUGE mountain to move though... so keep the faith and keep up the pressure... move this mountain!! 

see y'all tomorrow....

Night Mrs Red and TY for your well wishes .