Natalee Case Discussion #722 2/4 - 2/5/08am

[Justice4all]

hotping, I heard that as well, but I keep thinking that they probably showed us the most revealing stuff on the tapes.

[crazybabyborg]

Guys, it's almost 4:00am where I am, and we're not going to make it to page 50 before I konk out.  If you guys get to page 50, just switch to the next Natalee Case Discussion Thread (#723). It's unlocked, but please don't go there until you're on page 50 on this thread

It's at this link:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2572.0

Somebody can quote this post on page 50, and the link will be there.

THANK YOU and have a great night!

[Scandi]

Joe Taco said tonight on Greta that there are 20 hours of tapes from Peter and that He (JOE)  has read the transcripts...I just wonder what other info is on them that SM would find very interesting.....I wonder if they will be published...sure hope so.....I bet We might get some answers from them....MO 

Hi Hotping,  We've learned so many things in the last 2 days, some of which we know is true, and it is a matter now of the police ferreting out the truths from the mistruths.  For instance tonight hearing that Joran dragged Natalie into the Mangrove trees while he ran over to the pool area to supposedly use the pay phone.  I find it kind of hard to believe that.  And Charlie Croes, I wonder if he has control over those pay phones like he does the cell phones? 

I wonder if the Aruba investigators are excited now or so tired of the case they don't really care any more?

OMG,  I'm going to have to wonder as I wander over to my bed.  LOLOLOL  See ya tomorrow ;}

[Altruist]

Joran van der Sloot has now been formally named a suspect in the murder of Natalee Holloway. His statement to the effect that he did not know whether or not she was alive when her body was dumped means the prosecution can and will demand more severe punishments.

Gerard Spong, a prominent Dutch attorney, stated earlier today that there is a very real chance that van der Sloot may win the criminal case, but will be unable to win a civil suit brought by the surviving family members. Since there is an extradition treaty between the Netherlands and the United States, possible damages may be "..far more than he will ever be able to repay. The American system for awarding damages can have devastating results."

http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/

 

Dare we hope he will be extradited here for civil trial ?????  Is that how I'm reading this?

Don't think he could be extradited but he would probably be served papers & would certainly be able to appear on his own, if he didn't the case would still move forward & judgement be made & the Netherlands Courts would enforce the American Court Judgement against the defendant.  Think that is how it would work.  Think that a case that goes forward without the presence of the defendant is called "absentia".

[jackb]

Now we have to figure out who the owner of the boat is.  I say it belonged to either the Marriott or someone involved there.  Many of you think it is Koen's boat while others think it is Steve Croes and one of the girls who used to be a great and prolific poster at RWV said it belonged to Scuba's brother-in-law.

Steve Croes was/is very good friends with GVC who has access to boats as he does beach patrol as well as business patrol.  He has a sister who is a policewoman who worked for Vander Stratten.  GVC is a party animal and there are pictures of him partying with Croes.  He could come up with whatever is needed and was the one who had a problem when he gave NH a butt slap.  None of those guys in that group are used to being rebuffed, it seems.  GVC is a hard nose when he has to be and it is useful to him, I am thinking.  He was picked up at one time and they wisked him away.  They all knew about this and many of them participated in pre and post death crimes.  I believe, and feel I have reason to, that GVC and Croes, participants along with PVS  participant in at least the coverup, took over the final death and disposal or at least made sure she would not point the finger at anyone.       Jack blue

I thought about that last night as GVC would have access to water equipment.  The girl who was with GVC at a motel the night "the something bad happened" news came out said he received a cell phone call and told her it was from home and was very disturbed and I think, if I recall correctly, left her in bed and went someplace, never to return again.  She appeared about the time he was arrested saying she had no idea it was possible she was in a motel with a possible rapist/murderer.  I think Joran might consider one of the beach patrol qualified regards life and death, although I don't think GVC would be.  I am saying "his father," because some people on Aruba seemed to think GVC might be a bit unstable and maybe Joran called his father who referred Steve Croes to them and gave him permission to use the beach patrol equipment.  What if Steve Croes donned one of the beach patrol shirts so as not to be recognized and that was the shirt that was found that some believed would put GVC in a somewhat precarious position, although I am sure there were probably dozens of those shirts around but if Steve Croes was wearing one and using beach patrol equipment, no one would think a thing about it.

That is very interesting about the girl, the call, GCV, etc.  I had never heard that.  How did you learn about that?  There is a picture of GCV at the Vandersloots home watching tv when he was younger.  They all look younger.  Anyway, that shirt was a bloody mess. I enhanced it and there is still blood staining after being out in the weather, etc.
That boy had access to the cameras, rooms, boats, guns, etc.  I am sure old Joran had some stuff on him where he would not talk.  GCV's dad was a cop for about 12 or so years before getting that security deal going in the Netherlands, Aruba and on other parts of the antilles.  They knew the Vandersloots and had a thing going, no doubt.  Palus would possibly have been the one to approve his licence for operations in Aruba, etc.  Sure, most likely Koen was there and could have used his boat, but a patrol boat would look like it was patrolling, etc., especially if VanderStratten or the cops or security would not question the son of the owner of the Security company.  They all had stuff on each other.  God only knows what a mess they have created down there for those people to have to sort out and live around.      Jack Blue

[Tylergal]

the scaredmonkeys (observer777 is moderator) site has a lot of valuable information.

there has really been a lot of indepth honest investigation over there i noticed just by glancing at the blog and forum.
but ofcourse also misinformation and speculation.

but that's what you get with such a complicated case with false confessions, statements being withdawn, potential cover up and all that.

problem is, the information is just overwhelming.
it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.

i will be a hell of a job, but this way it is easier to get into all the information surrounding this case.
if more people (in the neterlands) get to know all the proven facts and propable theories it could ultimately reach the regular media and maybe even help solving the case...

or is there already such a summary on the SM-site? sorry for missing that...

(posted the same on a dutch forum - where observer777 is also posting there)

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1123224/1/50#56540764

I am having another sleepless night tonight.  (I am going to be honest, it's sinus headaches) and I have awakened with yet another one and could not sleep.  I bet Klaas could provide some reasonable facsimile in conjunction with Lala's, Anna and Red, some of the ones with those steeltrap minds.  I think SB had a plethora of information, not sure who has it now, but I hope KLAAS or OBSERVERI or one of the better informed monkeys will see this when our a.m. arrives.  You are quite a bit ahead of me and seriously ahead of Klaas' time zone, so I will try to keep this in my mind pipe in case neither sees it.

[Tylergal]

Now we have to figure out who the owner of the boat is.  I say it belonged to either the Marriott or someone involved there.  Many of you think it is Koen's boat while others think it is Steve Croes and one of the girls who used to be a great and prolific poster at RWV said it belonged to Scuba's brother-in-law.

Steve Croes was/is very good friends with GVC who has access to boats as he does beach patrol as well as business patrol.  He has a sister who is a policewoman who worked for Vander Stratten.  GVC is a party animal and there are pictures of him partying with Croes.  He could come up with whatever is needed and was the one who had a problem when he gave NH a butt slap.  None of those guys in that group are used to being rebuffed, it seems.  GVC is a hard nose when he has to be and it is useful to him, I am thinking.  He was picked up at one time and they wisked him away.  They all knew about this and many of them participated in pre and post death crimes.  I believe, and feel I have reason to, that GVC and Croes, participants along with PVS  participant in at least the coverup, took over the final death and disposal or at least made sure she would not point the finger at anyone.       Jack blue

I thought about that last night as GVC would have access to water equipment.  The girl who was with GVC at a motel the night "the something bad happened" news came out said he received a cell phone call and told her it was from home and was very disturbed and I think, if I recall correctly, left her in bed and went someplace, never to return again.  She appeared about the time he was arrested saying she had no idea it was possible she was in a motel with a possible rapist/murderer.  I think Joran might consider one of the beach patrol qualified regards life and death, although I don't think GVC would be.  I am saying "his father," because some people on Aruba seemed to think GVC might be a bit unstable and maybe Joran called his father who referred Steve Croes to them and gave him permission to use the beach patrol equipment.  What if Steve Croes donned one of the beach patrol shirts so as not to be recognized and that was the shirt that was found that some believed would put GVC in a somewhat precarious position, although I am sure there were probably dozens of those shirts around but if Steve Croes was wearing one and using beach patrol equipment, no one would think a thing about it.

That is very interesting about the girl, the call, GCV, etc.  I had never heard that.  How did you learn about that?  There is a picture of GCV at the Vandersloots home watching tv when he was younger.  They all look younger.  Anyway, that shirt was a bloody mess. I enhanced it and there is still blood staining after being out in the weather, etc.
That boy had access to the cameras, rooms, boats, guns, etc.  I am sure old Joran had some stuff on him where he would not talk.  GCV's dad was a cop for about 12 or so years before getting that security deal going in the Netherlands, Aruba and on other parts of the antilles.  They knew the Vandersloots and had a thing going, no doubt.  Palus would possibly have been the one to approve his licence for operations in Aruba, etc.  Sure, most likely Koen was there and could have used his boat, but a patrol boat would look like it was patrolling, etc., especially if VanderStratten or the cops or security would not question the son of the owner of the Security company.  They all had stuff on each other.  God only knows what a mess they have created down there for those people to have to sort out and live around.      Jack Blue

I found that girl on some pictures I had of Aruba and she came forward because some of us posted on her picture site.  Not sure who all did, but I did.  She was a very attractive girl.  She was on one of the talk shows, just briefly, maybe Nancy Grace or Greta, not sure which one, probably Greta as she was always looking for a perpetrator other than her beloved, ivy league sporter, Joran.

[Tylergal]

DEEPAK, SATISH

Some of us have called out to you quite often to speak up on behalf of yourselves.  I am calling out to you again to speak out and speak up.  Your law suit with Dr. Phil is probably going to fall on its face regardless of what you have been told.  But!  You can sue ALE for what you have been put through as a result of Joran's most recent taped confession if you are as innocent as it appears now.  If you participated in obtaining GHB, and you did not give it to Natalee, and even if you did, you can still be held only for minor charges.  You could be a crown witness, but you must speak up.

I posted this last night.  I am going to post it again.  This might make you mad but once you are past your anger, think about what is said within.

Okaydokey.  I am going to take a shot at some of the mysteries of this whole thing.

Deepak and Satish wanted to be big men about town.  Their only way to achieve this was to chauffeur Joran around town and have the appearance of being “somebody,” while Joran was using them all the time for “a ride.”  Remember he says they have a “fat Toyota” in his statement.  Short of knowing the strict translation, I am going to take that to mean, it was a “hot car.”  It looked good to the girls and the guys were in envy, a perfect ride for a “sporter” to have his “slaves” drive him into the evening with his latest conquests. 

In some sick way, K2 got a thrill from this and perhaps they were voyeurs , or not.  There is the mention of “the tape” that “the girl” would find repulsing.  I think at that point, even Deepak and Satish realize they have pushed too far.  Natalee thinks K2 are the jerks and demands they leave her and Joran along the beach.  She has seen the sharks, she has been in the car with them.  They acquiesce and leave Joran and Natalee at the beach, which is probably more than even Joran had bargained for.  He now has Natalee alone, and he can take advantage of her in anyway, shape, form or fashion.

Deepak states in his Skeeters tape that “she was beautiful, she looked like an angel,” or something to that effect.  I feel that he was pretty glommed by Natalee when she was dancing and could only dream of what it would be like to be with her, so he goes on line with his friend, Croes, and lives a fantasy as if he was in a porn chat room.  He is fantasizing at this point.

Later, he finds out what Joran has done because Joran calls him in need of help.  The long phone call.  Joran is holding while Deepak is trying to find an accomplice to get the mess straightened out, a friend with a boat.  Deepak and Satish realize at this point they need to clean the car because this is bigger than it was when they left them alone on the beach. 

Fine friend Joran is now, but it’s too late.  Deepak is the adult.  Paulus has been summoned to pay the bifrons.  His wheels are turning.  He needs to get Satish and Deepak into this so they can help Joran cover his tracks (or at least make up new tracks and new trails not covered).  Paulus has done one of these boys a legal favor, not sure which but it has something to do with a car, a “choller” and a gun.  These guys are not as street-savvy as they think they are and know little about the law, so Paulus has them “over the barrel,” those same old platitudes rushing forth about Deepak being held responsible since he was seen driving the car, the adult, the owner of the car, etc., etc. 

Deepak and Satish have been admonished to stick with the story.  Enter Steve Croes who has witnessed this.  He has told someone and it got back to D&S Kalpoe that he wants to be paid off for what he saw.  He loses his job for some reason and he is rewarded with a better job at C&C, thanks to the owner, who knows girls are being drugged there and SGC can prove it, so he is rewarded with a job to keep quiet.

Deepak and Satish are in this up to their eyeballs now, yet Deepak keeps trying to make Satish appear innocent.  They now view themselves as folk heroes on Aruba, to be celebrated for outsmarting an American woman looking for her daughter.  They make public appearances at such places at C&C, thinking that girls will be falling all over them and short of that, now they are stuck.  That did not happen.  No one is willing to run the risk of being their best friend.  Others in the community who know what really happened view them as “Joran’s butt-buddies” who are willing to “take the fall for him” because of their own stupidity and desire for 15 minutes of fame.

The recordings in the police van are the most revealing for me.

“If they find the girl, you are going to get 15 years.  “If they find the girl, they are going to see all that shit.”  “Your own father, unbelievable.”  See Father has promised K2 if they keep him and Joran out of this, they will have free rein in Aruba, to do as they please, to come and go and no harassment about those nasty little immigration rules. 

These two are still falling on their own swords and it is too late to turn back now because they are suing Dr. Phil for their own words on that tape which has been proven to be uncut by the FBI.  What these two “fall guys” do not realize is that they sued Dr. Phil at the urging of AHATA who were tired of them and were trying to cut the umbilical cord and “doctored” a tape for the Kalpoes to use.  That is not the original tape and a few people in Aruba know that, but they gave them the doctored tape, hoping that would get them off their backs and at very least, they would be able to stay occupied by suing Dr. Phil instead of fingering bubba and poppa.

[Tylergal]

Well, my Tylenol and aspirin are kicking in, so I am going back to bed.  I know by the time I return (busy day, Super Tuesday) you will all have posted a bazillion pages.  If I do not see my friends Caesu and Ciskebab back here tomorrow, KLAAS, I have left a note for you.

Take care, Monkeys.  Have a good day.  I will be voting and poll watching.  See you after I get past the tired (exhausted) stage.

[blah]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pPirYDvwM30

[Silverfox]

I cannot believe that Joran would put out the name of a friend of his
as the actual murderer!!!!

Joran better watch his back!

Where is the actual murder scene?
Fisherman's huts oir Holiday Inn?
Neither?

The actual murder scene, imo is the VDS compound.  Anita and younger sons were away.  PVDS was scoping Nat out at the casino.  Honestly, I believe Joran is covering for pop... Both are involved...

[San]

Joran is incapable of opening his mouth without a lie spewing forth.

 

Janet

+++++++++


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008

A 21-year old Aruban came forward Monday to say that he is the mystery man that Joran van der Sloot implicated on undercover tapes, but claims that he had nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Daury Rodriguez said he was contacted on Saturday by a frantic biographer of Van der Sloot's who, he said, warned him that his name was about to surface in the press as being the alleged accomplice who took Holloway's body out to sea in a boat and dumped it.

"She said, 'I got your number from Joran, because he said your name is going to show up in the press, but I know it's not true. It doesn't fit the story, so you've got to do something about it. You've got to give me proof [of his whereabouts in May 2005], so I can put it in the newspaper ... here in Holland."

ABC News has obtained exclusive U.S. rights to stunning new information about the case, caught on tape, and will air a 90-minute special edition of "20/20: The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway," Monday at 9:30 p.m. ET.

Rodriguez, who grew up on Aruba and played soccer with Van der Sloot when both men were teenagers, said he was angry that his name had been dragged into the case. He said he met with detectives investigating Holloway's disappearance on Monday morning, and that he told them he was living in Rotterdam, Holland in May 2005, when Holloway went missing.

Rodriguez retained an Aruban lawyer when he realized he was implicated in the case, and said he asked the biographer to put him in touch with Van der Sloot, but she refused.

Van der Sloot apparently logged on to an online instant messaging service over the weekend, and Rodriguez said he confronted him and demanded to know why he'd been named as an accomplice. "So, I was online, and he comes online, and I was like, 'Yo, what's wrong with you, man. Why did you do that?' And he's like, 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I didn't know what I was talking about. I'm so sorry.' And I said, you know, 'What the f---? Sorry? Don't say that! That's [b.s.]. You're putting me in trouble for nothing.'"

Rodriguez said he played soccer with Van der Sloot when the pair were about 16 years old, and that, while he knew him as an acquaintance, he would never call him a friend.

He said they played poker together at a local casino late last year after Van der Sloot was released from his second arrest.

Rodriguez's attorney Chris Lejuez said his client was born in Colombia, but moved to Aruba as a child when his mother married an Aruban man. Lejuez said Rodriguez moved to Rotterdam to attend trade school in 2004, and stayed on through June or July of 2007, working there. Rodriguez returned to Aruba in January and December of 2005 for vacation, but was not on the island for months before or after Holloway's disappearance.

He told ABC News he never owned a boat. "I never had one, and I don't have one,'' he said.

Asked how he could prove his whereabouts during 2005, Rodriguez said that ATMs he had used in Rotterdam could show he was there in May 2005.

Lejuez said he provided investigators with the name of the trade school Rodriguez had attended and the company he later worked for in Rotterdam.

Joran just drags everyone into the picture and he doesn't care who he hurts as long as his father is kept out of it.  He is trying to distance Paulus from this crime.  This Duary person has the same lawyer as the security guards.

You are right Janet.  Joran can't keep his lies straight and it is getting him in trouble.  But you notice how he touches on little bits and pieces of the truth.

[Debra]

jackb:

I thought about that last night as GVC would have access to water equipment.  The girl who was with GVC at a motel the night "the something bad happened" news came out said he received a cell phone call and told her it was from home and was very disturbed and I think, if I recall correctly, left her in bed and went someplace, never to return again.  She appeared about the time he was arrested saying she had no idea it was possible she was in a motel with a possible rapist/murderer.

Jack, it was an American tourist that met Geoffrey one night & as he walked her to her hotel she asked him about Natalee...And he froze up.  No photo of her ever posted.

[Debra]

I've decided this "confession" is all lies.

What happened to the facts?
Never a mention of:
2:30 am at racquet club as verified by Deepak
Lighthouse/Arashi Beach stop
Someone online until 5am
Guido's scratches
etc......

Think about it....Who's on Moomba Beach at 2 am?
Joran
Guido...............Holiday Inn
Freddy.............Champion's Bar/Marriott
Steve Croes......Tattoo Boat
Mark Purcell Jr....Moomba's Bar

This pershon has nehver been interviewed......

[San]

jackb:

I thought about that last night as GVC would have access to water equipment.  The girl who was with GVC at a motel the night "the something bad happened" news came out said he received a cell phone call and told her it was from home and was very disturbed and I think, if I recall correctly, left her in bed and went someplace, never to return again.  She appeared about the time he was arrested saying she had no idea it was possible she was in a motel with a possible rapist/murderer.

Jack, it was an American tourist that met Geoffrey one night & as he walked her to her hotel she asked him about Natalee...And he froze up.  No photo of her ever posted.

Yes, they were at the hotel and he did freeze up.  If my memory serves me right I believe they were both at the hotel in the swimming pool when he received the call.  GVC was very pushy that night with this girl and he was stressing that he would take her back.  She was with a friend and the friend was concerned and I believe GVC showed him his license or gave him his licence to hold to make him feel more comfortable in taking this girl back and the friend said ok.

Welcome Debra.

[Spock]

Morning guys. Im looking for a link to the abc news 20/20 video.  Does anyone have it?

[San]

I've decided this "confession" is all lies.

What happened to the facts?
Never a mention of:
2:30 am at racquet club as verified by Deepak
Lighthouse/Arashi Beach stop
Someone online until 5am
Guido's scratches
etc......

Think about it....Who's on Moomba Beach at 2 am?
Joran
Guido...............Holiday Inn
Freddy.............Champion's Bar/Marriott
Steve Croes......Tattoo Boat
Mark Purcell Jr....Moomba's Bar

This pershon has nehver been interviewed......

I believe this was a setup so Joran can go to trial and be found not guilty.  Aruba believes it will make them look better if they actually did something instead of just closing the case.  Joran made sure he said he was there but didn't do anything.  Aruba has brought in the big guns to help the Sloots.  In doing so they destroyed the island even more.  Why the Sloots are so important I will never know.  Is one rapist/murderer judge that important to a billion dollar industry.

[San]

Morning guys. Im looking for a link to the abc news 20/20 video.  Does anyone have it?

Spock I don't know if Carpe has put it on Youtube.  I tried to do a search and didn't find anything.

[Spock]

Morning guys. Im looking for a link to the abc news 20/20 video.  Does anyone have it?

Spock I don't know if Carpe has put it on Youtube.  I tried to do a search and didn't find anything.

Thanks San, I have been searching the internet and nothing yet...

[Debra]

Yes, they were at the hotel and he did freeze up.  If my memory serves me right I believe they were both at the hotel in the swimming pool when he received the call.  GVC was very pushy that night with this girl and he was stressing that he would take her back.  She was with a friend and the friend was concerned and I believe GVC showed him his license or gave him his licence to hold to make him feel more comfortable in taking this girl back and the friend said ok.

Welcome Debra.

Hey thanks San!

I don't remember a swimming pool & a call....I do remember GVC walking this girl (months after Natalee's disappearance) to her hotel...Possibly the Marriott..where she asked him about Natalee.