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Monkey All Star Jr.
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« on: February 07, 2008, 09:59:13 AM »

transcripts may 2005


May 31: High School Student Missing In Aruba

POSTED: 10:11 pm CDT May 31, 2005
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BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- A Mountain Brook teen is missing in Aruba.

A high school's senior trip to Aruba went terribly wrong for a local family. The trip ended without

Natalie Holloway returning.

The 18-year-old went to a nightclub in Aruba with a man she befriended while on the trip. She was last

seen in the man's car leaving the club at about 1 a.m. Monday.
Click here to find out more!

The man, who lives in Aruba, has been interrogated and his car is in FBI custody.

The FBI along with local authorities are investigating Holloway's disappearance. School officials said

the event is not school sponsored and is the choice of the students and parents if they want to go.

Holloway's family is in Aruba helping in the investigation.

The trip has been by taken by Mountain Brook students and chaperones for the last three years. About 138

seniors and seven chaperones took the trip this year.
'Largest Search In Island's History' Underway In Aruba

POSTED: 4:02 pm CDT June 6, 2005
UPDATED: 12:01 am CDT June 7, 2005

MOUNTAIN BROOK, Ala. -- Hundreds of people are walking across the island of Aruba Monday afternoon,

searching for any hint on the whereabouts of missing Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway.

Holloway was on a five-day excursion with 124 seniors and several chaperones from Mountain Brook High

School. She was last seen early May 30.

The island government released its government workers and civil servants at 2 p.m. Monday to participate

in the search.

The searchers assembled in several staging areas on the beach, organized in groups of 40, with a law

enforcement official assigned to each group. Searchers plan to walk the length of the island, meeting in

the middle of Aruba.

Donations of food and water from local businesses have begun streaming into organizers Monday, so that

the search can continue without interruption. Representatives from the International Red Cross are also

on hand to help organize the search.

As plans for the search in Aruba move forward, friends and family of Holloway continue their vigil in

Alabama. Hundreds of yellow bows have begun appearing in area shopping centers and on homes, with

several local florists reporting they are running out of yellow ribbon.

Back in Alabama, the aunt of Natalee Holloway held a press conference late Monday morning, expressing

her belief that somehow the missing teen would return home safely. The appearance was followed by a

prayer vigil, held by friends and family at the Mountain Brook Community Church.
Holloway's Isn't Only Missing Woman Case In Aruba
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2006, 01:51:37 PM »
    Reply with quote
Holloway's Isn't Only Missing Woman Case In Aruba

POSTED: 11:53 pm CDT June 6, 2005
UPDATED: 9:41 am CDT June 7, 2005

Another family said they know exactly what Natalee Holloway's parents are going through. They've been

dealing with the same nightmare for seven years.

The Bradleys, of Virginia, went on a cruise in 1998 and Aruba was one of the stops. That's where their

daughter disappeared.

Iva Bradley said her 23-year-old daughter Amy befriended three men that worked on the cruise ship and

they wanted to take her to a bar in Aruba.

"They said they wanted to take her to a bar on Aruba that was called Carlos and Charlie's," said

Bradley. "She made a face and said 'I wouldn't get off the ship with any of those guys anyway, that's


Amy Bradley was last seen in her cabin at 5:15 a.m. By 6 a.m., she was nowhere to be found.

"Imagine if you have a child. You brought that child into the world and every waking moment is geared

toward your children," said Iva Bradley. "You go on a trip and come home without one of them and you get

no help. It's a pretty devastating 24/ 7 situation."

Bradley's case remains open with the FBI. NBC 13 spoke with her case manager in Barbados but there

wasn't much she could say. However, she did confirm reports of a sighting by a Naval officer one year

after the woman disappeared.

The officer told the FBI he went to a brothel in Curac'l on Canal. He said an American girl leaned in

and said: "My name is Amy Bradley. I need your help."

Unfortunately he didn't report the sighting for sometime and by then the brothel had burned to the

ground. The FBI has released sketches of suspects in her case.

There is a $260,000 reward for information leading to Bradley's whereabouts. Her family continues to

hope that someone, somewhere, has information that could finally reunite the missing daughter with her


The hot line phone number for the Amy Bradley case is (804) 276-8503.
Ala. girl missing in Aruba called 'dependable' by friends
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2006, 01:58:43 PM »
    Reply with quote
Ala. girl missing in Aruba called 'dependable' by friends
Updated June 6, 2005, 10:08 a.m. ET

MOUNTAIN BROOK, Ala. (AP) — Already a world traveler at 18, Natalee Holloway was nothing if not careful

and dependable, relatives say. That's why friends knew something was wrong the instant she failed to

show up for the flight home to Alabama after a senior trip to Aruba.

"Natalee being late is a tipoff," aunt Marcia Twitty said Saturday.

Now Holloway -- with sparkling eyes, long blond hair and a heart for service -- is the focus of an all-

out search in an island paradise just off the coast of Venezuela.

FBI agents have joined with authorities and volunteers in Aruba in the hunt for Holloway, who planned to

attend the University of Alabama on a full academic scholarship this fall and talked of joining a


Back home, dozens of Holloway's friends and classmates attended an afternoon prayer vigil Saturday.

Stores are selling out of yellow ribbon as residents put bows on trees, mailboxes and doors all over

Mountain Brook.

"The entire community is very concerned and very much in prayer," said longtime city manager Sam Gaston.

Two men were charged Sunday in connection with the disappearance and authorities on the Dutch Caribbean

island also requested a special diving team from the FBI because of rough currents in some areas, said

the island's attorney general, Caren Janssen.

The men -- ages 28 and 30 -- were arrested Sunday morning at two separate homes in the southeastern

community of San Nicolas, Janssen said at a news conference in the capital.

Janssen declined to provide specific charges, saying the case will go before a judge within 48 hours to

determine whether the men can be legally held. She said authorities had not found any of Holloway's

belongings at the suspects' homes.

Holloway was known as a top student and tireless worker at Mountain Brook High School, where she

graduated last month before leaving for Aruba with 124 other seniors. Twitty said seven adults went

along as chaperones.

Holloway was in the National Honor Society, studied Spanish and was a member of American Field Service,

which works with foreign exchange students. Her participation may have been a reflection of her travels,

which Twitty said included trips to Europe, Canada and some cruises.

She was a member of the student government and sweated through long hours of practice as a member of the

school dance team. But Holloway wasn't just about glitz: she also joined Natural Helpers, a peer support

group, and other volunteer organizations.

For all her activities and achievements, relatives described Holloway as having an almost childlike

side, too.

"Natalee's naive. She hasn't dated a lot. She doesn't party a lot," said uncle Paul Reynolds. Holloway

attends church regularly and wouldn't ever run away, he said.

In the Mountain Brook yearbook, Holloway's senior quote came from the old Lynyrd Skynyrd song

"Freebird." It says: "If I leave here tomorrow, would you still remember me? For I must be traveling on

now, there's too many places I haven't seen."

For now, relatives just want Holloway back in Alabama.

"We're going to bring Natalee home," said her aunt, wearing a brightly colored yard bracelet made by

Holloway's friends as a sign of support. Some of the bracelets are being shipped to Aruba for volunteers

and authorities there to wear, she said.

At least 70 people showed up for a prayer vigil Sunday evening at a lighthouse on Aruba's gusty

northwest point, singing a hymn and listening to a brief sermon by the Rev. Larry Waymire, an American

who has lived in Aruba for six years.

"This is a trying time, not only for Aruba but for the world as a whole," Waymire, originally of

Lexington, Tenn., said during the 10-minute ceremony. "This has touched the lives of millions of people

around the world."

Suspects In Aruba Case Known To Police

June 7, 2005 11:05 a.m. EST

Hector Duarte Jr. - All Headline News Staff Reporter

Oranjestad, Aruba (AHN) - A police officer tells The Associated Press the two men charged with the

disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, the Alabama teen who went missing in Aruba over a week

ago, are known by police for going around to hotels, attempting to pick up women and asking people for

cigarettes. Authorities also reveal one of the men had a previous run-in with authorities.

The two suspects lost their jobs at a hotel, about two blocks from The Holiday Inn where Holloway was

staying, after their work contracts expired.

The officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said several locals told police the men had a habit of

combing hotels and talking to female tourists; one of the men had a previous run-in with the law, but

the officer clarifies it was not a violent or sexual offense.

The two men, ages 28 and 30, will appear in front of a judge Wednesday to determine whether their

detention is justified. Aruba's system of law allows suspects to be held for 48 hours before they must

appear in court, because the men were arrested Sunday, a non-business day, the two-day period began


Holloway went missing May 30 during a five-day trip to the island with over 100 of her classmates

celebrating their high school graduation.

FBI agents, soldiers, and about 700 volunteers combed beaches and scrubland Monday, as part of an

intensive search for the missing girl. The search brought on the discovery of T-shirts and sunglasses;

none of which were tied to the girl.

After a nine-day search, authorities are considering a number of possibilities, including accidental

Defense: Two Aruba Men Held On Suspicion Of Homicide, Kidnapping

POSTED: 4:14 pm CDT June 7, 2005
UPDATED: 2:31 pm CDT June 8, 2005

The defense attorney for two men currently being held by police in Aruba has told NBC13 the two men are

being held under the suspicion of homicide, accessory to homicide, murder, accessory to murder and


At a Tuesday afternoon press conference, police and other law enforcement officials refused to confirm

the statements from the defense attorney. They did state the evidence against the two men was strong

enough to hold the men for an additional eight days. At the time, formal charges are expected to be

lodged against the two men. According to police, the two men are currently being held under the

"possibility" of having committed a crime.

The two men were arrested Sunday in connection with the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee

Holloway. They had recently lost their jobs when their company's contract expired with a hotel near the

one where Holloway was staying.

In other news related to the case, police said that FBI divers are currently searching the waters near

Aruba for Natalee and have requested the aid of search dogs.

Officials also clarified several details about the search, noting that authorities are only searching

the island of Aruba. They also stated that the three men who have been described as "persons of

interest" in the case have not left the island.

Massive Search For Teen In Aruba
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2006, 02:01:37 PM »
    Reply with quote
Massive Search For Teen In Aruba
(Page 1 of 2)

ORANJESTAD, Aruba, June 6, 2005

(CBS/AP) About 700 volunteers joined police, soldiers and FBI agents on Monday, combing scrubland and

beaches on Aruba's southeastern tip in an unprecedented search for an Alabama teenager who vanished a

week ago on a trip to the Dutch Caribbean island.

"We are a safe island, and we are a happy island,'' volunteer Erica Odor told CBS News Correspondent

Kelly Cobiella.

Aruba's government let 4,000 civil servants off work early at 2 p.m. to hunt for Natalee Holloway, 18,

of Mountain Brook, Alabama. The expanded search came a day after police charged two men in her


The blonde honors student vanished May 30 while on a five-day trip with more than 100 classmates

celebrating their high school graduation. Seven chaperones accompanied them.

The initial search idea called for an islandwide effort, but later changed to focus on the southeastern

area of Seroe Colorado and part of San Nicolas, police commander Judy Hassell said. San Nicolas is where

the two charged men were arrested.

"The change happened when we realized how big Aruba was," Hassell said. "We're going to do as much as we


Aruba's land area is about 74 sq. miles, slightly larger than Washington D.C.

One of several search parties scoured barren terrain spotted with sequoia cactus, prickly pear and sea

grass in view of Valero oil refinery. A helicopter hovered overhead. Other groups searched abandoned

houses, remote roads and bushes as lizards crossed their path.

Some volunteers were tourists, including young couple Bill and Sarah Wise, both 22, of Cleveland, Ohio.

"We couldn't leave without trying to help a fellow American," Bill Wise said. His wife said the case hit

home with her because she's about the same age as Holloway. "It could be me," she said.

ORANJESTAD, Aruba, June 6, 2005
A Dutch marine searches Monday for Natalee Holloway, 18, an Alabama high school graduate who disappeared

while on a five-day graduation trip to Aruba. (AP)

(CBS/AP) Arubans and American residents and tourists have joined the search, upset that Holloway's

disappearance could mar the image of this tranquil island. About 500,000 Americans visited Aruba last


Hassell said she asked the Justice Ministry for permission to conduct another big search Tuesday, but

had not yet received permission.

The coast guard said that Aruba's shoreline had already been searched on foot, by boat and helicopter,

but the new search was more thorough.

About 10 large coach buses waited outside a stadium in the community of Santa Cruz, about 6 miles from

the capital, Oranjestad. Kenneth Angela and three co-workers from Aruba's lottery were among hundreds

who boarded the buses.

"It's the first time Aruba has done such a big search," said Angela, a 31-year-old lottery supervisor.

"We want to keep Aruba's name good. That's why we're here, to help find Natalee."

Holloway's disappearance has shaken a sense of safety many Arubans took for granted on an island of

97,000 people that saw one murder and six rapes last year. This year, there have been two murders and

three rapes on the island, where the average annual income is a comfortable US $22,000.

The two suspects, aged 28 and 30, were arrested in a pre-dawn raid on Sunday. Police said the men work

as security guards, and neighbors said they were guards at a hotel under renovation near the one where

the teen was staying.

Officials have declined to provide specific charges, saying the case will go before a judge by Tuesday

to determine whether they can be legally held. Authorities had not found any of Holloway's belongings at

the suspects' homes.

Authorities impounded three vehicles and took bags of items from the two homes. An eight-member team of

FBI agents supporting the investigation will help perform forensic testing on them, police said.

Police spokesman Edwin Comemencia said that authorities had not ruled out the possibility that other

people were involved. The two men in custody were not among three others described Saturday by police as

"persons of interest."

Authorities declined to comment whether there is a relationship between the suspects and three others,

earlier described as students, who told police they dropped off Holloway at her hotel around 2 a.m. on

May 30. Hotel employees, however, say that security cameras did not record her entry.

The night she disappeared, Holloway went to a beach concert and then ate and danced at Carlos' n

Charlie's bar and restaurant. She did not show up for her return flight hours later, and police found

her passport in her hotel room with her packed bags.

Police are investigating three main theories: Holloway was kidnapped; she went off on her own — a

possibility her relatives discount; or some harm came to her.

Holloway, a straight-A student, had earned a full scholarship at the University of Alabama and planned

to study a premedical course.

The Aruban government and local tourism organizations have offered a US $20,000 reward for information

leading to Holloway's rescue. Her family and benefactors in Alabama have offered another US $30,000.

It's little solace to Holloway's fearful family.

"One happy island is there logo,'' Holloway's stepfather Jug Twitty told Cobiella. "Well I can tell you

it's not happy for me right now."
Judge To Rule Whether Aruba Suspects Can Be Legally Held
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2006, 02:10:08 PM »
    Reply with quote
Judge To Rule Whether Aruba Suspects Can Be Legally Held
Monday Search Failed To Uncover Clues To Teen's Disappearance

POSTED: 8:50 am CDT June 7, 2005
UPDATED: 11:50 am CDT June 7, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Investigators in Aruba say a judge is expected to rule Tuesday whether two men

charged in the disappearance of an Alabama teen can be legally held.

Police say the men were security guards. Neighbors say they worked at a hotel under renovation near the

one where Natalee Holloway of Mountain Brook stayed. She vanished a week ago while on a high school

graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island.

Officers say they've asked the Justice Ministry for permission to conduct another big search Tuesday for

Holloway. But so far they haven't received an answer.

Monday, about 700 volunteers joined police, soldiers and FBI agents. They combed scrubland and beaches

on Aruba's southeastern tip.

Aruba's government also allowed 4,000 civil servants off work early to help with the search.

As the search moves forward in Aruba, friends and family of Holloway continue their vigil in Alabama.

Hundreds of yellow bows have begun appearing in area shopping centers and on homes, with several local

florists reporting they are running out of yellow ribbon.

Back in Alabama, the aunt of Natalee Holloway held a press conference late Monday morning, expressing

her belief that somehow the missing teen would return home safely. The appearance was followed by a

prayer vigil, held by friends and family at the Mountain Brook Community Church.
Nancy Grace for Tuesday, June 7, 2005
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2006, 02:13:56 PM »
    Reply with quote
Aired June 7, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the search turns desperate for an 18- year-old American girl who took her

senior trip with classmates to Aruba and vanished into thin air. Tonight, police and FBI agents descend

on the tiny island of Aruba desperately searching for the 18-year-old Alabama girl, Natalee Holloway.
Update, the two hotel security guards suspected in her disappearance lost their jobs just one day before

Natalee went missing.

And tonight, a horrific case of murder. A man`s body, cut into pieces, washed ashore in three separate

pieces of his own designer suitcases.

And day three of deliberations for a California jury. We are in a verdict watch in the Michael Jackson

child molestation trial.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

And Aruba is under siege as FBI, police and even their own citizens bear down on the search for 18-year

-old Natalee Holloway. And tonight, two suspects still in police custody.

Tonight, in Aruba, defense attorney for one of the two arrested men, Chris LeJuez; in Santa Barbara,

defense attorney Debra Opri; in New York, defense attorney Jason Oshins, psychologist Dr. Jeff Gardere.

But first, let`s go to Aruba, and CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Welcome back, friend. Karl, bring me


KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Another day of intense searching, Nancy. There have been search-and-

rescue teams out there. We understand the FBI divers have been in the water, too, for the first time.

And also U.S. tourists are continuing to join this search, Nancy. They`ve been joining rescue teams

looking along the north coast of the island, putting some of the -- sacrificing the Pina Coladas and

white, sandy beaches for rocky, thorny scrub hunting. But so far, no further clues, Nancy.

GRACE: Karl Penhaul, what can you tell us about these two men that are still in custody? Are there

formal charges yet?

PENHAUL: It would be best to describe these as formal accusations, Nancy. As you know, the Dutch system

of legal system here is very different from the U.S. system.

But we can describe these as formal accusations. And the formal accusations, we understand, that are

being leveled at these men are murder, homicide, and kidnap leading to death.

GRACE: Karl, if they don`t have a body of this girl, how are they coming up with a murder accusation?

Why have they charged them with murder?

PENHAUL: That is the big question. That`s the big question the legal experts are answering. And when,

today at an afternoon news conference, the public prosecutors said that they would remand those two

suspects in custody for a further eight days, they declined to reveal publicly any of the evidence that

they may have gathered against them. So we can`t answer that right now. And the legal experts, we don`t

think, were in a position to answer that right now, either.

GRACE: With us also tonight, the defense attorney for one of these two men in custody, arrested in the

connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, everyone, as you recall, the 18-year-old Alabama

girl who went missing on her senior trip in Aruba.

Chris LeJuez, thank you for being with us. What is the evidence by which they`re holding your guy in


CHRIS LEJUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have not seen the evidence as yet. All that I know is that they`re --

apparently there have been people who have described them as possible suspects, but I don`t know

anything of a body. I don`t know anything of anyone being dead in this case. So it`s a very strange

thing that they have been accused as of now of these charges.

GRACE: What are the official charges against these two men, Chris?

LEJUEZ: Well, I wouldn`t call them formal charges. We will call them accusations for the time being,

until the trial is at hand. The charges -- the formal accusations would be murder, that would be a

premeditated homicide, premeditated murder, accomplice or accessory to murder, and then also homicide,

which would be the same thing without the premeditation, and also being accessory to homicide and the

next one would be kidnapping with a fatal consequence.

GRACE: Mr. LeJuez, with were told last night that your client is being uncooperative with police. Why

won`t he give a full statement?

LEJUEZ: I don`t know where you got that information from. I don`t know from both these people, because I

spoken with both of the persons who are detained right now, they both have stated to me very clearly

that they gave a very ample statement to the police. I have seen them at the police station where they

were giving their statements. So I have no reason to believe that they did not cooperate with the


GRACE: Mr. LeJuez, did either of the two men, to your knowledge, come in contact with Natalee Holloway

the night she went missing?

LEJUEZ: I didn`t really quite catch your question. Would you please repeat the question?

GRACE: Sure. Did your client come in contact with the girl the night she went missing?

LEJUEZ: Well, I can assure you that both the people who are in detention right now here in Aruba for

this case have denied ever having any contact with Natalee Holloway. They both say they know her only

from the press.

GRACE: Mr. LeJuez, were they -- was your client still working at the Allegra Hotel the night Natalee

went missing as a security guard?

LEJUEZ: They are not working for this hotel. They are working for a security company. They were

dismissed a few days after that, dismissed in the sense that they are not working at the hotel right

now. They were going probably to be placed at some other place for this security company.

GRACE: I understand. So you`re telling me, Mr. LeJuez, they did not work for the hotel, they worked for

a separate security company? Did that security company provide security to the Allegra Hotel?

LEJUEZ: That`s correct.

GRACE: Did they work at the Allegra Hotel?

LEJUEZ: They were working at the Allegra Hotel for some time now.

GRACE: And Mr. LeJuez, how far away is the Allegra Hotel from the Holiday Inn where Natalee was staying?

LEJUEZ: Approximately two hotels further down, down the beach.

GRACE: Let`s go back to CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Karl, do you have any idea what the forensic

evidence is, what the evidence is at all, that leads officials to keep these two guys in custody?

PENHAUL: We don`t, at this stage, Nancy. Although, talking again to senior police officials, they have

also described to me that there`s tremendous political pressure in this case.

You must remember that Aruba is highly dependent on tourism. This kind of case is really out of

character for the island, which traditionally has had a very low crime rate, and none of that crime has

traditionally affected the foreign tourists here.

And so there is tremendous political pressure to resolve this case, and even the police are saying that

they are feeling that pressure. And so, also, for that reason, prosecutors are playing cards very close

to their chest. They haven`t presented any of the forensic evidence.

Yes, earlier in the week, we heard of this mattress stained with blood. That was ruled out, turned out

to be dog`s blood. We also heard earlier today about a security company t-shirt stained with blood. But

again, that seems to be ruled out, or at least police don`t seem to be making too much of that

discovery. And certainly that security company t- shirt wasn`t anything to do with the security company

that the two suspects were working for, Nancy.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.


PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S UNCLE: We`re doing well. It`s an overwhelming outpouring of support

and concern from the island, everyone in the States, the authorities. It`s an amazing series of events,

and we`re just touched as to how Natalee has reached people`s lives.

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF MISSING GIRL: I hope, I pray to God that she walks through that door

or that we find her somewhere. I don`t care if she`s, you know, in a crack house somewhere and she`s

been drugged up for, you know, seven days or whatever. We can work with that. We can fix her. We can do

whatever to get her back.


GRACE: Just to hear him say, "We can fix her," back to Chris LeJuez. Sir, are you the defense attorney

for one of the suspects or both of them?

LEJUEZ: I have been the defense attorney for both of them for the last two days. But as of tomorrow, I

will be only for one of them, because apparently there will be a conflict of interest in defending them

both. This has been told to me by the public prosecutor, so I will be resigning from one of the cases. I

have no evidence yet that, that is the case, but I do take her word for it.

GRACE: Very quickly, let`s go to Jason Oshins, defense attorney. Jason, you know what that means, that

writing is on the wall. If there is a conflict of interest, that means one is turning on the other. That

means somebody clearly knows something.

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, at least one would hope that, from the prosecutor`s perspective. I

mean, clearly the fact that there is so much political pressure on this tiny little island, the

prosecutor has got to tread very, very carefully and needs to look out for things in advance of what

could be a problem. So, yes...

GRACE: Jason...

OSHINS: Yes, Nancy?

GRACE: ... I asked you what it means when there is a conflict of interest between two defendants. It

means one is going rat on the other or else Mr. LeJuez could represent both.

OSHINS: Well, no, either way -- yes, you`re right, with respect to that, if that`s what the end result,

that one is going to flip on the other, or at the very least, the prosecutor wants to lean on one of the

defendants, not knowing which one they`re going to lean on. So that possibly, if there is that flipping,

as you say, that information could come out without having already been a conflict that would taint any

of the evidence.

GRACE: Very quickly, back to defense attorney Chris LeJuez. He is representing tonight both of the men

in custody in Aruba. Sir, do your clients know these three guys that escorted Natalee Holloway away from

the Carlos and Charlie`s bar that evening?

LEJUEZ: Both of these persons have told me -- these clients have told me that they don`t know the three

people who have brought them to the hotel that evening.

GRACE: Everyone, we are live in Aruba with the latest regarding the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee

Holloway. Please stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our family isn`t really focusing on the fact that there are dive teams. They`re

just focusing on the fact that it`s more help, and the more help the better. And if they don`t turn

anything up in the water, that`s great news, because they believe that Natalee is still here on island,

alive, somewhere on island.

And that is the family`s belief right now. They are not considering any other option. And they are

remaining very, very strong. And they have a great support system here on island from family, from

friends, from the local community, and, of course, the U.S. government sending in help is a huge, huge,

you know, relief for them.

BETH TWITTY, MOTHER OF MISSING GIRL: Our primary goal is to bring Natalee back home. We will do whatever

it takes. As I`ve said from the beginning, I`m not leaving Aruba without her.

GRACE: That`s Natalee Holloway`s mother speaking out. She is in Aruba with many other family members

tonight, along with Aruban citizens and tourists helping the FBI and police scour the island for 18-

year-old Natalee Holloway. She went on her senior trip to Aruba, well-chaperoned, and vanished into thin

air. In fact, yesterday, the government gave government employees half a day off to help find Natalee


Let`s go straight back out to Chris LeJuez. He is the defense attorney for both suspects that are in

custody tonight. Mr. LeJuez, I understand that you`re telling us tonight you represent both of them.

Tomorrow, you`re going represent one of them. Which one are you going to represent?

LEJUEZ: Well, one of the Js. They`re both called J, with their initial. And I will be representing J-1.

GRACE: OK, so are their names not public?

LEJUEZ: They might be, but I don`t public names. You might try to get them from the prosecutor`s office.

GRACE: No, that`s fine. Sir, you`re choosing to represent J-1 or are you assigned J-1?

LEJUEZ: I chose to represent one of the two.

GRACE: Why did you choose him over the other one?

LEJUEZ: It`s not really one over the other. But one of the two, not both of them.

GRACE: Do you believe that your client is less culpable than the other client?

LEJUEZ: I have no reason to believe so, because both of them have given extensive statements to the

police that they are not implicated in this case whatsoever. And I have no -- you`ve mentioned just now

they would be ratting, one would be ratting on the other. I have no reason to believe that is the case.

I do have reason to believe that their stories don`t match exactly.

GRACE: Well-put.

To Karl Penhaul, CNN correspondent there in Aruba. Karl, when will these two men be having their first

court appearance?

Karl, are you with me? OK, for some reason our satellite is down on Karl Penhaul.

Elizabeth, let me know when we get Karl back.

To Chris LeJuez, sir, when will your client and the co-suspect have their first court appearance?

Darn. Both gone. We`ll let you know when we get them back.

To Jason Oshins, let`s talk another moment about why LeJuez has chosen one client over the other. You`ve

been in that predicament before as a defense attorney. Explain.

OSHINS: Well, clearly, as you`re looking at a case there, as he indicated, there could be conflicts

between the two. He said there is some inconsistencies in the story. You don`t want to jeopardize one

client`s ability to have a not-guilty verdict if that`s the direction it is going to go. You need to be

certain about not impeding one or the other`s ability to have a clear defense.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.


LIZ SANDNER, MISSING GIRL`S BIBLE STUDY LEADER: This is someone who, if she wasn`t going to be at bible

study, would call before, say she couldn`t, make an appointment at a different time, sometimes 7:00 a.m.

Friday morning, to come recite, you know, her scripture memory for the week.

We just want everybody to keep praying for Natalee because we know she`s going to come home. She`s a

strong girl, and she`ll get through this. And she knows that we`re all praying for her. And we`re here

for her, waiting for her to come back.


GRACE: Debra Opri, what`s your take on these breaking developments regarding a conflict?

DEBRA OPRI, JACKSON FAMILY LAWYER: I`m looking at the big picture, Nancy. Obviously, there is guilt.

There is a lot of culpability. This individual attorney out there, he`s representing one, the other one.

They will turn against each other.

And listen, I`m like the rest of the citizenry listening to this case. Let`s get the girl alive. And if

we can`t get her alive, let`s get the evidence to put these people away for a long time.

GRACE: To Dr. Jeff Gardere. Jeff, what`s your take on this?

DR. JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, my take on this is, from what we`ve heard from the relatives of

Natalee Holloway, this is a young woman who does things by the book, she does things the right way,

she`s a good girl. So if something happened to her, it was probably something against her will.

She may are gone off voluntarily. We don`t know. But if she was taken, she was taken against her will

because her pattern is not one to just drift off and...

GRACE: Gone off voluntarily? The girl was leaving the next morning. Here bags were packed. The room was


GARDERE: Nancy, what I`m talking about is when she was at the nightclub, she met a few people. She might

have talked with them. But from her profile, her history, she`s not one to just be carefree.

Therefore, if something happened to her, it probably happened to her against her will. And I fear there

may have been some violence in this, looking at her psychological profile.

GRACE: Jeff, I`ve got to agree with you.
Aruba Search Scaled Back
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2006, 02:16:07 PM »
    Reply with quote
Aruba Search Scaled Back
(Page 1 of 2)

ORANJESTAD, Aruba, June 7, 2005

(CBS/AP) Accidental death has not been ruled out in the case of a missing Alabama honors student whose

fate remains a mystery despite the arrest of two suspects known to police for trying to pick up women in

hotels in this Dutch Caribbean territory, authorities said Tuesday.

Police and FBI agents kept up a 9-day-old search for 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, but a lack of any

solid leads is hindering progress, said several officers involved in the investigation.

A massive search involving more than 700 volunteers on the southeastern tip of Aruba — where the two

suspects were arrested in their home Sunday — yielded no leads Monday. More than 4,000 civil servants

who had been given the day off and encouraged to volunteer returned to work Tuesday. Police officers

have complained that Aruba has several drug-sniffing dogs but few trained to search for people.

Alabama native Patrick Murphy flew to Aruba from his home in Grand Cayman.

"It all came down to a person from my hometown and a mother pleading for help," Murphy told CBS News

Correspondent Kelly Cobiella. "I mean, who wouldn't come?"

Authorities had not ruled out any possibilities, including that Holloway may have drowned, Aruba

Attorney General Caren Janssen said. Two divers were among the eight FBI agents helping in the hunt, but

it was not immediately clear if they had begun an underwater search.

The two men in custody were former security guards for a hotel two blocks from the Holiday Inn where

Holloway had been staying. Their work contracts had expired the day before she disappeared, a police

officer told The Associated Press. A judge was to decide on Wednesday if authorities had sufficient

grounds to continue holding them, Janssen said. Police have refused to reveal the charges against them.

The guards were known to police because they had a habit of going around to hotels trying to pick up

women or bum cigarettes, said the officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Police policy prohibits

authorities from discussing details of an investigation before they are presented in court.

The officer said several islanders told police that the men were seen hanging out frequently at

different hotels talking to female tourists trying to pick them up in a friendly manner. No complaints

had been filed against the men.

(CBS/AP) One of the suspects had a brush with the law, but it was not a violent or sexual offense, the

officer said.

Police last week questioned and released three other men — described as "persons of interest" — who told

police they took Holloway to a beach and then dropped her off at her hotel the night she vanished.

Holloway's parents and other relatives who rushed to the island last week refused to give up hope of

bringing her home alive.

"We're not stopping," said Paul Reynolds, her maternal uncle.

That feeling was shared in Holloway's hometown of Mountain Brook, Ala., a tree-lined community of 22,000

that is home to many of the Birmingham area's most affluent families. Residents had attached yellow

ribbons to everything from mail boxes to automatic bank machines.

Holloway has been missing since May 30. She vanished while on a five-day trip with more than 100

classmates celebrating their high school graduation. Seven chaperones accompanied them.

She had spend her last night dancing and eating at a Carlos' n Charlie's bar and restaurant, which has

contributed US$5,000 (euro4,070) of a US$55,000 (euro44,770) reward offered for information on

Holloway's whereabouts.

Her disappearance has upset Arubans, who take pride in their island's reputation for friendliness and


The Aruba Tourist Authority usually gets about 25 e-mails a day from prospective visitors. In the past

week, it has been bombarded with messages from more than 100 asking if they should go ahead with

vacation plans, said Myrna Jansen-Feliciano, the agency's managing director. The visitors were reassured

and few have changed their plans, she said.

"I can tell you that 100 percent of the private and public sector attention is on this matter," Rob

Smith of the Aruba Hospitality and Security Foundation told CBS News. "There's no way there could be

more attention focused on finding this young lady."

Tourism accounts for 70 percent of the economy in the territory of 97,000 people, with 73 percent of

visitors coming from the United States. Many American tourists have volunteered in the search.

"I'm impressed by the people, their warmth and concern for Natalee," said Jim Robinson, a Pennsylvanian

insurance executive who came to the island for a convention and offered to help search. "I would come

back. Time will heal."
Alabama town hopes for safe return of missing teen
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2006, 02:54:13 PM »
    Reply with quote
Alabama town hopes for safe return of missing teen
Updated June 7, 2005, 10:55 a.m.

MOUNTAIN BROOK, Ala. (AP) — They have waited and prayed for good news for a week, refusing to give up

hope that 18-year-old Natalee Holloway will be found alive and come back home.

The belief has kept residents of this upscale suburb and Holloway's anxious family tightly bound since

the teen went missing last Monday during a senior class trip to Aruba.

"You don't want that to happen to anybody's family," said Nikki Quick, manager of a gift shop in the

mostly residential, tree-lined community of 22,000 that is home to many of the Birmingham area's most

well-to-do families.

An aunt of Holloway, Marcia Twitty, said the girl's mother -- though on "an emotional roller coaster" --

is staying upbeat: "I know Natalee is alive and I'm going to find her," she quoted her saying.

The hope is shared from one town to the other; yellow ribbons are attached to everything from mail boxes

to automatic bank machines.

"We're just showing that we're supporting her family and everyone down there wanting to bring her home,"

Quick said.

Quick spent Monday morning redecorating the show window in front of her business with only yellow items

-- her own small way of showing support. A handmade sign on the sidewalk outside said "Pray for


Mountain Brook Mayor Terry Oden said he's not at all surprised residents have banded together. "Most

people have lived here all their lives and we care for each other," he said.

In Aruba, the effort to find the youngster grew Monday. About 700 volunteers joined police, soldiers and

FBI agents combing scrubland and beaches on the Dutch Caribbean island's southeastern tip. Aruba's

government let 4,000 civil servants off work early to hunt for the teen.

"It's the first time Aruba has done such a big search," said Kenneth Angela, among the hundreds of

searchers. "We want to keep Aruba's name good. That's why we're here, to help find Natalee."

Police commander Judy Hassell said Aruba's 74 square miles, slightly larger than Washington, D.C., made

a full search of the island impractical. "We're going to do as much as we can," he said.

Two suspects, aged 28 and 30, have been arrested in connection with the disappearance. Neighbors said

the pair served as security guards at a hotel under renovation near the one where Holloway stayed.

Holloway's disappearance has shaken the sense of security many of Aruba's 97,000 people took for

granted. Only one murder and six rapes were recorded last year. So far this year, there have been two

murders and three rapes on the island, where the average annual income is a comfortable $22,000.

The Aruba government and local tourism organizations have offered a $20,000 reward for information

leading to Holloway's rescue. Her family and benefactors in Alabama have offered $30,000 in addition.

Holloway went to Aruba with more than 100 other recent Mountain Brook High School graduates on a senior

trip, along with seven adult chaperones. The school's graduates have been making the trip to Aruba,

which is unofficial and not sponsored by the school, for about the past five years, Oden said.

The night she disappeared, Holloway went to a beach concert and then ate and danced at Carlos' n

Charlie's bar and restaurant. She did not show up for her return flight hours later, and police found

her passport in her hotel room with her packed bags.

Twitty, speaking to reporters Monday in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church, which has

been holding daily prayer services, showed a large picture of Holloway and her mother.

"These people belong together. This is a mom and daughter team that go together," Twitty said. "She's

missing and we've got to find her."

Asked how the family was reacting to the possibility Holloway might not be found alive, Twitty remarked:

"I can't mentally go there, because we've got to find her."

At Norton's Florist, manager Deana Cross said she had made 400 yellow ribbon displays in the past four

days and was having trouble keeping up with orders.

"Every bow goes out the store with a little prayer," she said.
Aruba's Government Asks for Help in Search
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2006, 03:13:58 PM »
    Reply with quote
Aruba's Government Asks for Help in Search

Tuesday, June 07, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba —  The Aruban government called on thousands of civil servants and tourists Monday to

join the local police and American FBI in the search for a missing Alabama teen as two men were being

held in connection with her disappearance.

Natalee Holloway (search), 18, vanished a week ago while on a five-day trip to the Caribbean island with

more than 100 other classmates to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School (search)

near Birmingham, Ala.

Authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island requested a special FBI diving team to search waters with

rough currents, Aruba Attorney General Caren Janssen said.

The Dutch Caribbean island's government on Monday asked most of the 4,000 public employees to meet at a

sports stadium in the central community of Santa Cruz at 2 p.m. EDT to be briefed on "a systematic

search," police commander Trudy Hassell said.

"We hope there will be thousands," Hassell said in the capital, Oranjestad. "This effort is a national

effort. We feel with the family."

Aruban police in unmarked cars accompanied by FBI agents made a pre-dawn raid at 5 a.m. Sunday, rousting

two suspects aged 28 and 30 from their beds.

An AP photographer watched as the rumpled men — one from the De Vuiyst housing project for poorer

islanders and another from an average home in southeast San Nicolas — emerged without resistance, hands

cuffed behind their backs.

Police searched the homes and emerged with what looked like a metal safe deposit box and a garbage bag

of clothing.

Police spokesman Edwin Comemencia said that authorities had not ruled out the possibility that other

people were involved. The two men in custody were not among three others described Saturday by police as

"persons of interest."

"I think there are more suspects ... we're going to arrest more" people in connection with the case,

Comemencia told FOX News on Monday.

Authorities declined to comment whether there was a relationship between the suspects and other three,

earlier described as students — two Surinamese and a native of the Netherlands — who told police they

dropped off Holloway at her hotel around 2 a.m. on May 30. Hotel employees, however, say that security

cameras did not record her return.

Comemencia also said that he didn't believe Holloway ever returned to her hotel. "The investigation

looks like, that night, she never returned to her hotel," Comemencia told FOX News.

Janssen declined to provide specific charges, saying the case will go before a judge within 48 hours to

determine whether they can be legally held. She said authorities had not found any of Holloway's

belongings at the suspects' homes.

"The charges have a relationship with the disappearance," Janssen said. "There is a reasonable suspicion

they may be involved."

Authorities impounded three vehicles found at the two homes, and a team of more than a dozen FBI agents

helping with the investigation will help perform forensic testing on them, police said.

"We hope she's alive," police commissioner Jan van der Straaten said. "Everyday I see the light at the

end of the tunnel." Van der Straaten called on the public to be patient because the investigation will

"take time."

Neighbors described the two detained men as security guards who worked at a hotel closed for renovation

near where the teen was staying at the Holiday Inn. Deputy police chief Gerold Dompig confirmed that the

suspects were security guards.

At least 70 people showed up for a prayer vigil Sunday evening at California Lighthouse on Aruba's gusty

northwest point. They sang a hymn and listened to a brief sermon by Rev. Larry Waymire, 50, of

Lexington, Tennessee, who has lived in Aruba for six years.

"This is a trying time, not only for Aruba but for the world as a whole," Waymire said during the 10-

minute ceremony. "This has touched the lives of millions of people around the world."

The lighthouse, built in the early 20th century, was named for a steamship that wrecked off the island's

coast and overlooks a dive site and one of the beaches that Holloway was reported to have visited.

Hundreds of Arubans and American residents and tourists have joined the hunt, upset that Holloway's

disappearance could mar the image of this tranquil island. About 500,000 Americans visited Aruba last


When asked why the teen's disappearance had reverberated throughout the world, 54-year-old Bill Creamer

of Fitchburg, Mass., said the impossible had happened.

"It can't happen here and it did. On a smaller scale it's 9/11," said Creamer, who has come to the

island with his wife, Nancy, for the past seven years.

Holloway spent her last night at a beach concert featuring Boyz II Men and Lauryn Hill at Surfside beach

in southern Aruba, Tourism Minister Edison Briesen said. About 8,000 people attended the concert, which

was part of the third annual Soul Beach Music Festival (search).

She then ate and danced at Carlos 'N Charlie's bar and restaurant. She did not show up for her return

flight hours later, and police found her passport in her hotel room with her packed bags.

Authorities were overheard on a police frequency Sunday evening issuing a bulletin to stop a rented

white Toyota in connection with the disappearance of the 5-foot-4-inch blonde. Dompig declined to

confirm it.

The Aruban government and local tourism organizations have offered a $20,000 reward for information

leading to Holloway's rescue. Her family and benefactors in Alabama have offered another $30,000.

Holloway's disappearance has shaken a sense of safety many Arubans took for granted in an island of

72,000 people that saw one murder and six rapes last year. This year, there have been two murders and

three rapes, police said.

Holloway, a straight-A student, had earned a full scholarship at the University of Alabama and planned

to study premed, said her uncle, Paul Reynolds.

Many feared the worst when authorities said they found a blood-soaked mattress at a beach in eastern

Aruba on Sunday, but it turned out to be animal blood.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.,2933,158666,00.html
Mountain Brook girl disappears during senior trip to Aruba
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 12:56:41 PM »
    Reply with quote
Mountain Brook girl disappears during senior trip to Aruba
AP via ^ | 6/1/2005 | AP

Posted on 06/02/2005 8:02:49 AM PDT by SamFromLivingston

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — FBI and Aruban officials said Wednesday that they had flew clues to the

whereabouts of a Mountain Brook High School graduate who disappeared during a senior trip to the island.

FBI officials in the Caribbean were coordinating with Aruban police and Dutch authorities, who oversee

Aruba, to search for Natalee Holloway, 18, The Birmingham News reported.

Holloway joined about 125 graduating seniors and adults on the five-day trip, which is an annual

tradition not sponsored by the school. Other students said she never showed up for the group's return

flight Monday.

"We went to check in for our airplane, and she wasn't there, and she's been missing since then," said

Jay Weinacker, a member of Holloway's graduating class.

Holloway's parents, David Holloway, of Meridian, Miss., and Beth Holloway Twitty of Mountain Brook, and

several family members traveled to Aruba to aid the search, said Robin Holloway, the girl's stepmother.

"It is torture," Robin Holloway said. "It is just agony."

Aruban police said Wednesday that they had questioned and released three local men who said they dropped

the teenager off at her hotel late Sunday night. Officials said the girl's parents were unable to spot

her on a hotel surveillance tape.

Officials said there were few leads on Natalee's whereabouts.

After hearing of her disappearance, Robin Holloway said her husband felt compelled to search for his


"We can't just sit here and do nothing," she said. "We don't know if she is still in Aruba

Behind Every Lie is a Clue to the Truth
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Posts: 9585

« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 10:18:26 AM »

Transcripts Auguest 1.2005

Latest From Aruba; Missing at Sea

LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, 64 days with no word of Natalee Holloway. Nothing found at the bottom of that pond, and Natalee's mom heads back home for the first time in two months, while volunteers continue searching the landfill. Will investigators get any more out of the suspect in the new round of questioning tomorrow? We've got the latest from Aruba with Natalee's father, Dave Holloway, and her uncle, Paul Reynolds. Also, T.J. Ward, the private eye her family hired. Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper, and renowned forensic doctor Henry Lee.
And then, a groom vanishes on his honeymoon cruise. Blood stains are found on the ship. Tragic accident or murder? The FBI explores the mystery, and so do we. The Aruba story continues to mystify, and let's get a complete update with Susan Candiotti on the scene in Miami, who has followed this from the get-go. Susan, what's new?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Larry, first of all, we expect that tomorrow, that Joran Van Der Sloot will have to go through another round of questioning, at least by Dutch investigators. They're going to try to get more information from him when they're scheduled to meet with him tomorrow. And he'll be transferred from the prison, from the detention section there, over to the police department, where this team of specialists, behavioral specialists will go over, perhaps, old ground and start to go over some new ground if that's possible, to perhaps give it a fresh outlook and question him again.
There's been another development as well. And that is today, for the first time, police are making a public plea to ask for anyone who might have seen a pair of sneakers, tennis shoes, size 14, described as white and blue and brand new.
This is coming from Joran Van Der Sloot. Police say that during the course of the many statements that they took from him, during one of them, he told them that he may have lost that pair of sneakers the night that Natalee went missing.
You know, it's not unusual for authorities during questioning about your whereabouts that night to ask you, OK, where were you, who were you with, what were you wearing? And so it's during the course of it, I'm told, that he mentioned that he might have lost this pair of tennis shoes.
They've been looking for them since the very beginning, haven't found them. Didn't see them in the landfill, didn't see them around the pond that they looked at the other day, or around town. He claims to have lost them at the beach in the fisherman's hut area, police tell me, the night that Natalee went missing.

KING: Dave Holloway is Natalee's father. What's your latest read on this incredible story?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE'S FATHER: Well, I don't know. You know, we've had 22 different stories from this guy, and he's going into interrogations tomorrow. I bet you that his father has already coached him today or yesterday. You know, as you're aware, he's an athlete, and his dad's a very good coach and a lawyer, or has been in the legal business for at least 22 years. And it's obvious to me that, you know, this guy, he goes through all of the interrogations, and then the next day, he meets with his father and they're coaching him to continue to stay strong. And I just hope that these -- this new set of team can get to the bottom of it.

KING: Paul Reynolds, do you believe, with your own logic, that he is somehow involved with your niece's disappearance?

PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE'S UNCLE: We're convinced of that. There's -- you know, the information that we have, the initial confrontation by my sister, the multiple stories that followed, and that they have admitted their involvement. They were last seen with her. We're convinced they have information. We're convinced they know what happened. And, you know, we think the clues to that are in the interrogation records that the police have, starting at the beginning of the time period in which he was missing, going forward with the interrogations after their detainment. And we just hope all that -- those pieces of the puzzle can be put together.

KING: T.J. Ward, private investigator hired by both families. Is this beginning to be like the duck story? It looks like a duck, it walks like a duck? This kid is involved?

T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Yes, I believe so. I believe we have the right person under the microscope. I've been back on the island for about 24 hours, and we've gotten a lot of new leads that we're following up with, and hopefully, it will bring us to some new -- some new information. And I bring -- Wednesday, I have another associate joining me, Herald Phelps (ph), with the Norcross Group, who has 21 -- excuse me, 31 years of experience with the Federal Bureau of Investigation out of Miami. And he will be joining me to try to follow up with this information and leads that we have just received.

KING: Attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper, why is law enforcement seemingly so slow in Aruba?

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well, I don't think they're slow. It's an ongoing investigation. They have been thrown a lot of curves herein, a lot of different stories. Of course, they are bound to search in regulations on how they can approach a suspect, and they have to abide by those rules. You just cannot hang a person just to tell you a story. You have to talk to him. And, of course, now they are trying all their resources, and one of their last resources is to get expert interrogators from Holland with behavior specialists.

KING: Dr. Henry Lee, are they going to have to find a body?

DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, they don't have to find a body, but they do need some type of physical evidence. Right now, you know, the duct tape did not pay off. Draining the pond did not pay off. Now, they start looking in the garbage dump.
The garbage dump, when I look at television, looks like they just randomly dig. When we search the garbage dump, first thing, you'll have to do some intelligence analysis, use logic, separating pile. They should look at the stuff after May 19th. Especially pay attention to May 20th, around that time, any letters, newspaper, and if we can isolate that time period, and you should sort the garbage piece by piece. Look for things (ph).
And, of course, this missing sneaker, now that is something new. Size 14. That's an unusual size, pretty large size. I don't think there's too many pair of size 14 in Aruba. And they should look for that. Some reason the disposed sneaker must have some kind of evidence on there.

KING: Susan, are authorities frustrated?

CANDIOTTI: Well, I think they're trying to be persistent. I don't know frustrated, but naturally, after this length of time, yes, they would have liked to have solved the case by then, but they tell me that they're being very methodical, trying to look at every possible angle. They have looked for these shoes at these various locations in the past, as an example. They did look at the landfill before, but they're supportive of Equusearch, if they want to go -- and they are going in there and going through the specific area that the witness thinks he thought he saw something, even though police don't think -- don't give much credibility to what that witness had to say.
Nevertheless, as I said, they're trying to, as they put it, leave no stone unturned as they try to solve this case.

KING: We'll take a break and come back with more. We'll also include your phone calls.

KING: Now, Dave Holloway, Natalee's father, doesn't it bug you that nothing seems to have been accomplished; that it's not the biggest island in the world. Where is she?

HOLLOWAY: You know, that's what I'd like to know, Larry. And I've said it several times: If we could just find which hay stack to search, I believe we could find the needle. You know, that's been the whole problem all along is: Where do we need to search? And you know, without any clues, you know, you just have to, you know, just basically search the entire island.

KING: Arlene, while Joran is being questioned tomorrow, can his attorney be present?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Yes, he can. He actually, if you recall, won the case to be present at the interrogations. Yes.

KING: And under Aruban law, would rules governing any interrogation be changed if he was formally summoned to court and charged?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: I'm sorry. I don't understand your question.

KING: OK. We're having -- I'll come back to you, Arlene. We're having a little difficulty with your mic. Let's get a call in.

Phoenix, Arizona, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. I love your show. Over the weekend, Tim Miller was at the Van Der Sloot home and he said that Equusearch wants to search the well. I believe that Van Der Sloot is likely keeping the evidence and-or her body at the bottom of the well. Can we not force the Aruban government to allow us to search that well?

KING: Paul?

REYNOLDS: Requesting a search warrant for some time now. I think it's very important that Tim Miller and Equusearch go in there and look at the property. It's very suspicious to us the way that the family was confronted at their property the very first time. And, you know, it's only a logical place for us to go in there and take some special equipment.

KING: Yes. Dave, why don't you -- don't you ask them? Why can't we get in there?

HOLLOWAY: Well, we've asked those questions and you know, we've been told the police have...

KING: What do they say?

HOLLOWAY: Well, they told us the police have searched the area and have searched the area with a dog at one time. How thorough that was, you know, I'm not sure.

KING: Dr. Lee, I know you're not there and you haven't been there, but where do your suspicions travel?

LEE: Well, my suspicions, you know, they disappear after midnight. So, you probably do a geographic analysis. Look at the area. If witness say he have a car, if we look at a vehicle, any trace evidence under the carriage and wheel well, maybe give us some clue, type of sand, sedimentation, casing material; any algae material, then try to do a systematic look and search.
Obviously, his house, we should look around. And they should ask another search warrant to look at the house and if the sneaker -- if you just threw it in the water, it would float on top. So, there must be weighted to something. If still do not see the sneaker, watch to the beach. Then they should watch the tide. Which way it goes and which beech you should look for and stuff.

KING: Henry, if God forbid there were a body in the landfill and it's been two months, what would it do to it?

LEE: That's terrible, Larry. If, at two months, in that kind of hot weather, decomposition definitely going to take place. Of course, one of the witnesses saw somebody with a plastic bag and the bag contents a body.
Now, that's kind of an interesting statement. If I understand correctly, it's a black-color plastic bag. So, the witness probably won't see through. And however, the witness says they saw the body. If the body in fact in the plastic bag, even decomposed, all the remain going to be in the bag and the bag itself could be a crucial evidence. We should at least look for fingerprint.
Also, the bag we could trace to original box, which is germantal (ph) analysis and striation mark and the machine mark on the plastic bag. We can actually trace back to the box.

KING: T.J. Ward, are you optimistic about coming to an answer here? You said you discovered some new things today and you've got more evidence maybe coming tomorrow. What do you think?

WARD: Yes. We've -- well, we've gotten some new evidence that we're following up with and we're going to see if it pans out. I will say I hope we have an opportunity and we've attempted to try to do this today, to talk to the witnesses about the pond, the gardener and also the person that brought the information to the landfill.
I have my layered voice analysis equipment with me and we can sure verify enough if they are being truthful or have any additional information, if we can sit down and talk to them.

KING: Arlene, with your knowledge of Aruba, are you confident about getting answers?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, it's a mystery, really. I don't know what the prosecutor has in file, but it seems to be still very thin. They will have to find some real evidence for them to be able to summon these suspects to court. If they don't, I don't think we will see a summation to court.

KING: I know Dave and Paul only have a few minutes left. Dave, what keeps you going?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I've said this a number of times. You know, you take each day as it comes. I left Meridian, Mississippi, with a prayer with my pastor that God give us strength to get through this. And so far, so good. He has held with us. And every day, we continue to get stronger and stronger.

KING: What about you, Paul?

REYNOLDS: You know, I'm continually encouraged by the massive efforts that I see, by the volunteers and other supporters, Equusearch and the police here. There's a massive effort draining the pond. So, I don't think the intensity of the investigation has diminished at all.

In fact, I think it's increasing and people are beginning to come forward. You know, the tip line and other people, I think, are feeling more confident that it's OK to come forward with information. So, you know, we're working our way through it and we're hopeful.

KING: One more call before you guys go. San Pedro, California. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. Thank you for taking my call.

KING: Hi. Sure.

CALLER: My question is why did Natalee's mother go back to Alabama yesterday? Because, she had said all along she would never leave until she found her.

KING: Dave, do you know why your ex-wife went back?

HOLLOWAY: I really don't know. She left Friday to take a break and she is returning, I believe, tomorrow.

KING: Thank you both very much. Dave Holloway and Paul Reynolds, I know you've got to leave us. T.J. Ward, Arlene Ellis- Schipper, Dr. Henry Lee and Susan Candiotti remain.

KING: We're back with T.J. Ward, the private investigator hired by the Holloway and Twitty families. Arlene Ellis-Schipper, the Aruban attorney. In New York is Dr. Henry Lee, one of the world's foremost forensic scientists. And in Miami is Susan Candiotti of CNN. Let's take another call. La Grange Park, Illinois, hello.

CALLER: Hello. I would like to ask the Aruban attorney as to why and what political clout that this judge has that he closed his office, but still seems to be controlling all the police.

KING: Arlene?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, I don't think he's controlling the police at all. He does not have political clout. As a matter of fact, this is a Dutch man that came to Aruba some years ago. I do not agree with you that he has any influence on this investigation, other than he can talk to his son, of course. But that was also a battle, as you'll recall. The prosecution office strongly contested his visitation rights. So I really feel they have done everything possible to prevent that.

KING: T.J., do you agree? WARD: Somewhat. I believe from the beginning, some information that I found out, that there was a connection between Van Der Straaten and Van Der Sloot, and all along from the beginning of the investigation, I thought it would have been proper for Van Der Straaten to step down from his relationship with Van Der Sloot.

KING: To Kelowna, British Columbia. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry?

KING: Yeah.

CALLER: Yes, my question, sir, is for Mr. T.J. Ward, if I may.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: Can you ask Mr. Ward, from the very beginning, in the past 64 days, he mentioned very early on about those mine shafts. Can you tell me if anything is being done with respect to those mine shafts?


WARD: Well, well, I can't answer that. I don't know what the law enforcement officials are doing. As you're well aware, the information that law enforcement has is closed to the public and is also closed to us as investigators. I was brought here by the families to do a parallel investigation and to find what information we could, and if we found any new information, to turn it over to the Aruban authorities and the FBI. So I really can't answer that honestly, to know what the Aruban authorities are doing in the course of their investigation.

KING: Susan, as a reporter, what, in all of this, is the most puzzling aspect to you?

CANDIOTTI: Well, I think in the beginning, what puzzles me is how long it took before there was a more intense look at the three young men who were last with him. But in talking with the law enforcement authorities, they insist that they were following the book, that they did things the right way. They talked to them initially. Yet don't really explain why the length of time, but they insist that they did things the proper way, and they insist that they are trying to follow through on leads as best they can.
It would seem as though they went to all these places and looked for the shoes. They went to the house. They checked out the clue at the landfill. Yet this all remains a mystery. And it is, indeed, tough when you don't have a body or any, as far as we know, any real hard evidence.
What's striking to me the most, however, is the gardener, the witness who says that he saw the three suspects in a car the night that Natalee disappeared near the racquet club, which is somewhat near the beach. So, that seems to be an interesting piece of evidence.

KING: To Telford, Pennsylvania, hello.

CALLER: Yes, hello, Larry, thank you for taking my call.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: I have two questions, actually. One is, only the father and son know where Natalee is. I don't believe the relatives of Natalee have been aggressive enough in exhausting all search warrants on the property. Can the U.S. government get involved?

KING: Can they, Arlene? Can the U.S. government get more involved than it is?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: No. The U.S. government does not have jurisdiction. We are a sovereign country. This is a locally investigation. Everything, every aspect of this investigation and of this suspected crime is concentrated locally. It does not cross international boundaries.
So, there is no grounds for an international or a foreign government to get involved.
Neither would Aruban government be involved if an Aruban girl would be lost on U.S. territory. You can compare it to that.

KING: Dr. Lee, what puzzles you the most, forensically?

LEE: Well, forensically, this case, really, so far, no evidence. And when you don't find any physical evidence, that becomes a difficult case. Now, 67 days later, this becomes a cold case now. As a matter of fact, this -- more in this afternoon, (INAUDIBLE) to all this, (INAUDIBLE) law enforcement officer, homicide detective, they have their annual meeting here, to talk about cold cases. This cold case, now you need a little luck. To find one piece of evidence. If we can find something, can link to him or a piece of evidence, say, linked to her, somehow we can use physical evidence to develop some question to reinterview the suspect.

KING: A little bit of luck.

Thank you all very much. Dr. Lee will remain with us in the next segment, when we talk about missing at sea. We thank, earlier, Dave Holloway and Paul Reynolds, T.J. Ward, Arlene Ellis-Schipper, and, of course, our own Susan Candiotti.



8-2-05, CNN

Suspect in Natalee Holloway Case Questioned by Behavioral Specialists

KING: Natalee Holloway is still missing, 65 days in Aruba. The search goes on.
They questioned Joran Van Der Sloot by Dutch authorities. He's the only one currently being held. Before we talk to our three guests in this segment, we have obtained a tape of the young lady, Natalee, speaking on tape. This is home video. Watch.




HOLLOWAY: Hi, Fran (ph). Just, you know, sitting in the back, cruising over to my place. And you're doing an excellent job.

And I just want to say happy birthday. You know, you look like a new woman. And I'm sure you feel like one too.

And the beach was a blast. I had the best time of my life. And, you know...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you properly buckled, hootie?

HOLLOWAY: Oh -- ooh.



HOLLOWAY: Got that one on tape.



KING: Paul Reynolds, is it tough to hear your niece like that? PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE: It's very tough. You know, it's good to hear her voice. You know, it reminds us of the person that we're missing and it's hard to hear.

KING: Yes. A beautiful young lady. Susan, what happened today with Van Der Sloot?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Larry, Joran Van Der Sloot, he's 17 years old. He was brought in an unmarked car before 8:00 this morning, very early. He was handcuffed and escorted from this prison into a police station in downtown Oranjestad. Now, he was brought in, in front of news cameras. We were able to get a glimpse of him as he walked into the police station. And those Dutch behavioral specialists spent nine hours talking to him. Now, naturally, we don't know precisely want went on, how forthcoming he might have been. However, his defense attorney has told me that Van Der Sloot told the court he had nothing new to add, so he wasn't in favor of this additional questioning. And so we don't know what, if anything, he -- he might have been silent for all we know, but presumably he had something to say. He did have his attorney present with him during that time. And the FBI was allowed to observe the interview. And we know also that they're not done yet. He is expected to return for another round of questioning tomorrow.

KING: Casey Jordan, the criminologist and former criminal profiler is joining us from New York. What do you think they talked about?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, I think what they're trying to do is really bring in these behavioral specialists to make sure that even the police did a lot of interviewing before, this is an interrogation. This is all about testing information that he's given them before, double-checking him, probably trying to catch him in deceptions, use those against him, and use a lot of behavioral techniques, mirror imaging, focusing on the language that he uses, on word choice, and watching things as simple as perspiration, eye movement, that sort of thing, to steer the conversation. And again, try to get some chinks in his armor. But for all we know, again, as Susan said, he could have the wall of Jericho up and just refuse to cooperate at all.

KING: Paul, you had said previously on this program that you believe he is the prime suspect. That belief still holds?

REYNOLDS: Absolutely. We know -- we know he's guilty. You know, we don't know exactly what he did, but we know he did something. We know he knows where she is. We want him to come forward. You know, we feel his father is giving him bad advice. I think the advice that he's giving his son, just to be quiet, I think it's going to ruin his life.
And, you know, he could encourage his son to come forward with the truth. If there was an accident -- and there very well may have been an accident -- he could come forward with that and release everyone from this tragedy and, you know, help us move forward.
So I just encourage his father to give his son good advice and come forward with the truth.

KING: What's the key factor, Paul, that tells you it's him?

REYNOLDS: We've known that since the first day, since my sister and her husband arrived on the island. We saw them with her. He admitted having her in the car.
We know she was there, the multiple lies that they've told, the suspicious nature that they've exhibited, along with their father, the things that they've said, and clues in the interrogation. We know they have involvement. And we want them to come forward. And it's going to help them move forward with their lives, as well as us.

KING: Susan, did the attorney for the suspect, for want of a better term, give -- say anything? Was he encouraged by the questioning? Did he -- discouraged? What was his attitude?

CANDIOTTI: Well, Larry, because the rules there are very strict in Aruba, this defense attorney said he is obligated by the law there not to divulge anything that transpired during the course of the questioning. He said he must abide by those rules and declined to even characterize how things were going. Now, naturally, we'll keep asking those questions, but a big question is whether they were able to move this case forward in any way. Because, remember, police have already said, Larry, that Joran Van Der Sloot has given them different versions of what happened the night Natalee disappeared.
So that's not the question. And some even question whether he was even given -- if he were given a lie detector test, which is not permitted under Aruban law, but if he were, some say it wouldn't do any good at this point, because they believe they already know that he's lying, in their opinion, and that it wouldn't necessarily tell them anything they don't already know.

KING: Casey, even though we don't have a body of any kind, are you puzzled as to why he hasn't been arrested and charged?

JORDAN: Well, he's told a number of different stories. It's the contradictions in the stories that are the key. I think that they are really trying to get enough information where -- to where they could locate a body. The issue with Joran at this point is a waiting game. He has been there for, what, 60 days or so. He knows that they can't hold him past -- I forget what it is exactly -- 100, 120 days. He has another two months to wait this out.
And it's a logic game for him. If he can win that race of waiting them out, just continue stalling, telling the same stories over and over again, shrugging when there are contradictions, can't remember, doesn't know, and get to the end of that legal period for his incarceration without arrest, then he can walk free.

KING: Paul, have they told you -- Paul has to leave us, but one other quick question. Have they told you that they have enough evidence to go forward at all?

REYNOLDS: They haven't told us what evidence they have, but we're going to solve this case. And the truth will come forward. You know, witnesses are coming forth now. More evidence is being found. The records will be put together. The truth will not escape us. And we will find out what happened. I just encourage them to come forward now and, you know, help everyone move forward with their life.

KING: Thank you. Paul Reynolds, who has to leave us -- we have about another couple of minutes -- Natalee Holloway's uncle. Susan, what happens next?

CANDIOTTI: Well, as we said, the questioning will continue, is scheduled to continue in the morning again. They will bring him in handcuffs back to the police station for another round of interviews with these behavioral specialists. We presume that they are videotaping these, because I know the authorities have told us that they have videotaped other witnesses. So this will also provide authorities with another avenue to study what he is saying or what he isn't saying. However, it is important to note, as some of your guests already have, clearly, there is not enough evidence to bring this young man forward to a trial. That's how it works in Aruba. And if there are no sufficient grounds, they won't be able to do so. Although, there is a two-year window of opportunity for authorities to eventually bring him to trial if they feel there is enough evidence.

KING: And Casey Jordan, do you think we're going to get a resolution?

JORDAN: I'm losing hope, simply because of the lack of forensic evidence at this point. I love that there are behavioral specialists in there. The point is they're there two months too late. You really need to go for that early window of opportunity and vulnerability if you're going to get the answers. I think at this point, he's told so many lies, he doesn't even know what the truth is. It's deep inside of him. But they're going to have to appeal to his logic more than his emotions at this stage of the game.

KING: Thank you, Paul Reynolds, Susan Candiotti, and Casey Jordan.
Back to top

GRACE: I want to go to Claire Fierman, a friend of Natalee Holloway`s that was there. OK, no Fierman? Let me go to Katherine Weatherly. Katherine, are you with me, dear? Can you hear me?


GRACE: Hi, dear. Thanks for being with us. Now, were you there that night at Carlos and Charlie`s?

WEATHERLY: Yes, ma`am. I was there.

GRACE: What did you see? Did you see Joran Van Der Sloot there?

WEATHERLY: Actually, Natalee -- I was with Natalee. We were all together, dancing, and Natalee was only with Joran towards the end of the night. But I did pass him. I didn`t really even notice him. And that was it.

GRACE: So when you saw him later in the evening with Natalee, what were they doing?

WEATHERLY: I didn`t see him later in the night with Natalee. I saw him in passing, and that was it.

GRACE: OK. How was Natalee that evening?

WEATHERLY: She appeared fine. She wasn`t acting out of control or anything so...

GRACE: Did you see her when she left?

WEATHERLY: No, I did not see her.

GRACE: Had you already left?

WEATHERLY: Well, Carlos and Charlie`s closed at 1:00 o`clock, and when it closed, everyone was getting in taxis at the same time and it was really chaotic. And I got in a taxi, and everyone just thought that everyone would get home OK. There were so many people leaving at one time, it was just...

GRACE: OK. Hold on. Am I getting Claire Fierman yet, Elizabeth (ph)? OK. I`m hearing...


GRACE: Hey, Claire.


GRACE: Claire, did you see Joran Van Der Sloot that evening?

FIERMAN: Did I see him? I`m sorry, I -- (INAUDIBLE) breaking up. No, I`ve never seen him. I wasn`t at Carlos and Charlie`s, and I`d never seen him -- I`ve never seen him ever.

GRACE: Claire, when did you realize Natalee was not there to return home?

FIERMAN: The next morning, I was on an earlier flight than everybody else, and Francis Ellen (ph), one of our friends, came and found me and Katherine in the airport and told us that Natalee wasn`t flying home, that they did not know where she was.

GRACE: But to Katherine Weatherly. Katherine, when did you realize that Natalee wasn`t there to return home?

WEATHERLY: I realized the same time as Claire, actually, but at the time, we thought maybe she slept in. We didn`t -- I mean, we were very concerned, but we thought...

GRACE: What did you do?

WEATHERLY: ... she would be coming home. We -- well, we had to get on the plane immediately after that, and we got on the plane...

GRACE: Nobody tried to call her?

WEATHERLY: Oh, yes. People -- we were getting -- her cell phone was in her room at the time. She didn`t take her cell phone with her.

GRACE: Did you try and call her before you got on the plane?

WEATHERLY: No. We knew that she didn`t have her cell phone with her, so there was no point in calling, if she -- because -- well, they -- I wasn`t there when they realized that she was missing. I was told in the airport. But I know that other people did, and -- but realized that she didn`t have her phone with her.

GRACE: Why would anybody know she didn`t have her phone with her?

WEATHERLY: Because they saw her phone in the hotel room. She hadn`t taken it out with her that the night.

GRACE: OK. It just seems to me that everybody keeps their cell phone with them. Why wouldn`t she have it that morning? But you`re telling me people did try to call her, right?

WEATHERLY: No. Well, no. They -- no. They didn`t -- everyone knew -- when the next morning that her cell phone was there. I was just saying that we would have tried to call her. I don`t know if people actually did try and call her or not, but the people that were in her room knew that she hadn`t had her phone that night.

GRACE: Right. Right.[/b]

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: Suspects' Lawyers Go 'On the Record    Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Suspects' Lawyers Go 'On the Record'
Thursday, August 04, 2005

This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," August 3, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Just hours ago, Joran van der Sloot (search) and Deepak Kalpoe (search) were in court. Their lawyers argued that the FBI should not have full access to documents or evidence in the Natalee Holloway (search) case. We caught up with Joran van der Sloot's lawyer outside the courthouse.


In terms of information that the prosecution is obliged to turn over to you, are you satisfied everything's been turned over to you that should be turned over?

ANTONIO CARLO, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT'S ATTORNEY: No. Today, also, we had a summary proceeding, which was also heard by the judge today, where we complained formally that, in our opinion, the defense is not getting full and/or timely access to the documentation in the case. The judge is going to decide on our complaint, so we are awaiting the response of the judge, the decision of the judge.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you expect that decision to come today, with the issue of the FBI, as to whether or not the prosecution is turning over everything it should to you?

CARLO: No, again, the issue of the FBI intervention is a separate issue.


CARLO: This was a separate proceeding.

VAN SUSTEREN: But do you expect both decisions this afternoon?

CARLO: This afternoon or early tomorrow morning. The judge did not give an indication as to when he was going to render his decision, but soon.

VAN SUSTEREN: Between now and September 4, what do you do for your client strategically as you await September 4?

CARLO: OK. Of course, you know, we are not going to go into detail and disclose what our strategy is going to be. But right now, our role and our duty is to protect and defend the rights of our clients, and that is what we propose to do and, you know, advise and assist our client in all ways necessary.

VAN SUSTEREN: Clients come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, easy to get along with, easy to work with. Is there a way to describe this client and your working relationship with him?

CARLO: He is a nice guy. He is a nice guy.


VAN SUSTEREN: The suspects were not required to show up in court today. We saw Joran van der Sloot enter the courthouse through the back door in custody, in handcuffs, and Deepak Kalpoe walked through the front door with his lawyer, but Satish Kalpoe did not attend. Earlier today, we spoke with Satish's lawyer, David Kock, and talked to him about how the prosecutor is handling the case.


She told me today — I mean, and granted, it was not the most comfortable of settings, but as she walked out of the courthouse and I stuck a mike in her face, basically, I asked her if she was confident of her case, and she said, yes, indeed, she was confident. Do you get the sense she's confident, or do you just think that's sort of grandstanding by a prosecutor leaving a courtroom?

DAVID KOCK, SATISH KALPOE'S ATTORNEY: I don't think the prosecutor would have taken this action and then come out of the court and saying she's not confident. Although by that, I don't mean to say that she's not but she just says she is. It's hard for me to judge what her opinion is. From what I heard her present today, I think she believes that she has acted correctly. I don't think she thinks otherwise and presents it in a different way. We just don't share her opinion. But you know we are free to do that, too.

VAN SUSTEREN: What does their case consist of? We know that it consists of interrogations, and from the interrogations, the best that we can conclude on the outside is that there are inconsistent statements internally, that Joran's made different statements on different occasions. We know there's no body suggesting a murder. We know that no one knows where Natalee is. Is there any forensic evidence or any physical evidence you've been presented with to suggest that Natalee is not alive?

KOCK: Not at all.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any forensic evidence you've been presented with to show that Joran van der Sloot knows where she is?

KOCK: Not evidence. I think that this is a very logical assumption.

VAN SUSTEREN: But evidence?


VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any evidence — any physical evidence — to tie your client to Natalee Holloway?

KOCK: Of course, they were in the car priorly. But you're talking after that, I assume?


KOCK: Not at all.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any physical evidence to tie your client's brother to Natalee, other than being in the car?

KOCK: Not that I know of.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any physical evidence to suggest a crime?

KOCK: Physical evidence? Not that I know of.

VAN SUSTEREN: Based on your conversations with the prosecution and what the prosecution turned over to you, at best you can say only that Natalee Holloway isn't here in front of us, or at least, we don't know where, I guess.

KOCK: Correct. And then we make certain assumptions.

VAN SUSTEREN: But assumptions aren't evidence, necessarily. I mean, we might make assumptions, but I take it that assumptions are not evidence in an Aruban court.

KOCK: No. They are sufficient to trigger an investigation. They are sufficient to detain suspects. But they're not sufficient to sentence someone.

VAN SUSTEREN: If you're a betting man, do you expect on September 4, the state of the evidence, that Joran van der Sloot goes home?

KOCK: I would prefer not to give an answer on that question. I think because of all that's happening in this case, it's not going to be such an easy decision either to let him go or to keep him.

VAN SUSTEREN: But usually, you would detain someone, I suspect, in an investigation if there's evidence to support that the person's involved in a crime. So you at least need some evidence of a crime and some evidence of a connection of the person to the crime.

KOCK: Yes, you need suspicion, according to our laws. The evidence doesn't have to be hard evidence in this phase of the investigation.

VAN SUSTEREN: So it's enough that you are the last person with a missing person, so we're suspicious of you.

KOCK: If you can sum it up, it's like that.

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of working with your client — I've said this to other defense lawyers — clients come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, all different kinds. How do you describe your client?

KOCK: I describe him — he's a very young boy, you know, soft-spoken. And I have no reasons to doubt in what he's telling me up to now. So you know, I think he's going to come — as it stands today — that he's going to be all right.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you spoken to his brother at all or had any interaction with his brother?

KOCK: Not interaction. I mean, today I met him at court, you know? I tried to keep things separately, and I try not to be involved with other parties.

VAN SUSTEREN: How come Satish wasn't here today? Deepak was there, and Joran obviously was there. He was brought in custody. But how come your client didn't show up?

KOCK: It was not required for him to show up today. It was a total technical issue, judicial issue. He didn't have any answers to give. So you know, we said, Why let him go through this today? There was no need, in our opinion.

VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, we sort of expected either both brothers not to show up or both brothers to show up. So we sort of wondered why one did and one didn't.

KOCK: I think every attorney has a different strategy.

(END VIDEOTAPE),2933,164769,00.html
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:34 pm    Post subject: LARRY KING LIVE 8-18-05,    Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

8-18-05, CNN

Interview With Beth Holloway Twitty; BTK Sentenced

First off, though, we have a one-on-one interview with Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother. Beth, of course, in Aruba, continuing the search. Beth, day 81, moving in on three months since Natalee's disappearance. I have to ask the obvious question, how are you holding up? How is the family holding up?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Well, you know, each day it's hard. And some days are very difficult to get through. But, you know, we've just been -- just had an amazing amount of support from family and friends and people that we've never met in the U.S. and Mexico and Canada. And so it helps tremendously to get us through this. PIXLEY: As the volunteer search goes on, of course, the Aruban authorities conducting their own search, the FBI participating. What is the latest in terms of the reward, and what is the latest that you have been doing in the last 30 days or so?

TWITTY: Well, I think the main thing that we've been trying to do is to get the word out about the reward. And I think CNN has been doing a great job of covering that, the million dollars for her safe return, $250,000 for her whereabouts. And making available the 1-877- Natalee line. I've even had tourists approach me here on the island from Caracas, Venezuela, and knew all about the story and they know about the reward that's in place. So I feel like the word is out there, and that's something else we still want to continue. We're also trying to produce a little Spanish speaking public service announcement that could run through the media and distribute that to some stations, international. And so we're just always trying to think of ways to get the word out.

PIXLEY: Beth, with all good that's been done, and of course with all the attention that's been brought to the story, you have nonetheless said that you don't think the official investigation has been heading in the right direction. Now, we know that you have been given the opportunity to look at the police reports, see some of the witness statements. When you see that kind of evidence, do you feel better or worse?

TWITTY: Well, there are a lot of things, of course, at the beginning that we were so -- just went so incredibly wrong. And, you know, what I get worried about now is, is hitting a wall. And you know, I think the gardener coming forward with his statement, I think that that is something that still is being, you know, verified to see if it has credibility to that. And, I mean, to me, that's huge news coming forward. We've all known, as early as July 1st, that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, that the beach trip -- that never happened. You know, now, this will, of course, be having them scramble to come up with, you know, a new alibi.

PIXLEY: And we're going to get into that alibi in a little bit. But I want to ask you first, though, you mentioned some of the dead ends. With the dead ends that we have seen that have been so widely reported, the hair on the tape, the pond that's been drained, all the while you have to sit back wondering if your daughter is going to be found in the worst possible condition. Now there is this new report, hundreds of miles away from Aruba, of human remains washing up in Venezuela. Do you ever allow yourself to think that this could be your daughter, or do you shut that out, Beth?

TWITTY: I don't allow it anymore at all. You know, we've been through so much, even before all of these things were being made known. There were -- as early as June 1 -- it was early as May 31 and June 1, we were running with sightings of Natalee all through Aruba in the most unimaginable places that you would be thinking of looking for your daughter. So, you know, we had to really try to get a handle on, you know, all this information that we're getting from these sightings, because you just have -- there were too many ups and downs, too many highs and lows in the beginning and we just had to put the brakes on and really just wait until we had something definitive before we began to think it could be related to Natalee.

PIXLEY: You mentioned the Kalpoe brothers and, in particular, of course, it's been in the news lately that you have had words with Deepak. Is there something in particular that you have learned, something in particular that you want to say to the Kalpoes?
Or does it have more to do with the fact that their story continues to unfold now, of course, with the gardener's statement coming in and challenging what the brothers and what Joran Van Der Sloot has to say?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, we've known from day one that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are way deeply involved in this crime with Natalee. You know, proving that has been difficult with all the lies that they've continued to, you know, tell the authorities.
As far as what I would, you know -- as far as, you know, Deepak's reaction, you know, when I met him in the internet cafe, it was a completely different Deepak Kalpoe than I met the night of May 31. You know, at that point, he's thinking that he had a rock solid alibi, the Holiday Inn drop-off, and he held his head high, looked at me in the eye.
At the internet cafe, he couldn't lift his head until I'd been in there over an hour, close to an hour and a half before he -- you know, I was leaving at the time some of the footage was shot. He had been repeatedly having to ask him to hold your head up and look at me. He couldn't even do it, he couldn't even look at Natalee's mother. It's just this incredible guilt over him. He couldn't even deny any involvement.

PIXLEY: We're approaching, of course, September 4th. There is a chance on that date that Joran Van Der Sloot will come out of custody. Is there a contingency plan at this point in place? Will you be challenging that? Will you be doing what you can to keep Joran Van Der Sloot in custody, and are you doing anything on the ground to try to see, or through your attorneys, that the Kalpoe brothers are brought back in?

TWITTY: Well, of course, I'm just going to have to wait until September 4th. I'm just going to have to wait to experience it to see what we're going to do. Of course, you know, we're always thinking and putting different things into motion. But, you know, we've just got to wait and see how it's going to go before we can implement anything. And as far as Deepak and Satish, I'm not giving up that they will not be rearrested. I still think that that is a strong possibility.

PIXLEY: We'll be back with more of our discussion with Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother, from Aruba and New York in just a minute.

PIXLEY: Continuing our live, one-on-one conversation with Beth Holloway Twitty in Aruba. Beth, do you have any theories at this point? You sure have been on the ground for a long time. You've got the help of some great investigators. Do you have any theories as to what happened that night?

TWITTY: No. You know, we have -- there's so many different theories that we've come up with as our family, and also with, you know, the people that have been involved, the investigators and attorney. And, you know, we just go back to the two things that we know happened. And we know that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot took Natalee from Carlos and Charlie's. And, you know, I've not made it a secret that Joran Van Der Sloot had confessed these sexual assaults and he committed against Natalee to us, her family. Those are two of the facts that we know. And, you know, what happened from there, you know, there's where the answers lie with Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot.

PIXLEY: Beth, you're talking about facts that suggest that your daughter did encounter some foul play. You say that you don't allow yourself to think that way. I wonder which is worse in your mind, the idea that your daughter was the victim of a deadly crime, or the idea that you could spend the next 20 years wondering whether she's going to walk through the front door -- sort of Elizabeth Smart kind of story?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, those are both cruel to go through either one of them. So, you know, I just know that we have to have answers. And I know the answers are right here. I know the answers are right here on the island and, you know, we expect to get them.

PIXLEY: And so you go forward with this all-consuming search. Tell me about the members of your family. We've heard from everyone. Who is down in Aruba, who is back home? How do you sustain this level of activity and work for months?

TWITTY: It's the most incredible support that you've ever seen coming out of Natalee's community of Mountain Brook, Alabama. You know, something that even has been made possible -- I'm supposed to be back at work. I teach school at Mountain Brook City Schools. And the teachers have come forward and donated sick days to last me this entire fall. And, you know, they're just making things happen. And it's just incredible. And then the amount of friends that we have that support us and are able to fly in and out and take time from their jobs. We all have jobs and lives there and children there. And everybody's just been making sacrifices to make this work.

PIXLEY: Beth, plan A, obviously, has been to get as much help from as many sources as possible. Do you feel, at any point in time, that the participation of all of these different groups, where it's the volunteer groups, the Aruban officials, the FBI, that people can get in each other's way? Or do you feel that the attention that has been brought to the case and the number of people who are looking for Natalee is a positive?

TWITTY: Oh, I think that number of people that have been involved are -- it's definitely a positive. We've been so fortunate to have these groups of individuals that have come in. I mean, from Equusearch to -- gosh, I mean, they just did an incredible job of combing this island. It's a very unforgiving terrain. It's not easy. It's not easy at all. And we've just, you know -- investigators have come in and, of course, anything that anyone has brought to the table has been helpful.

PIXLEY: Beth, this is also hard to talk about. We appreciate you being with us tonight. We're going to be talking with your brother and with a panel some more.

PIXLEY: We're back, talking about the Natalee Holloway disappearance. With us, the full panel now. In Houston, Paul Reynolds, Natalee Holloway's uncle. In Birmingham, Alabama, Anastasiya Bolton, reporter for TV station WBMA in Natalee Holloway's home state. In Atlanta, T.J. Ward, private investigator. He's been working on the case for some time now. In Orlando, Vinda De Sousa, the Holloway family attorney. And here in New York, Henry Lee, famed forensic pathologist, criminologist, here to talk to us a little bit more about the details of the case. We go first, to Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasia, a week's worth of news, some hearings this week, bring us up to speed.

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, REPORTER, WBMA-TV: Chris, well first of all, on Monday, the gardener, the key witness in this case, gave sworn testimony to the judge. The reason why this is important, because previously, the gardener gave testimony that he saw the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot in the car near the racket club at 2:30 in the morning, the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. The judge asked the witness to be brought back again and give a sworn statement again. And if that statement were to be the same, he potentially could have ordered the Kalpoe brothers to be rearrested, that was the buzz earlier in the week. Now, the re-arrest did not happen, although the gardener did give the same statement, he stands by his story that he saw the brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot. Now, I've spoken to one of the attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers today. He tells me he does not expect his client to be rearrested. That's what he told me today. He says that the records do not lie in terms of phone and internet records, because he maintains that the Kalpoe brothers were cruising the internet and chatting on the internet way after 2:30 in the morning, so they could not have been on the beach near the racket club.
Also, over the weekend, an arm was found on the beaches of Venezuela. The investigators say they do not think that the arm could belong to Natalee Holloway because of the way the tides go. However, the Venezuelan authorities at some point are going to look into this and test the arm. Right now, they're busy with a plane crash that happened earlier in the week, as you very well know. So they're going to look at the arm a little later. Joran was in court with attorneys yesterday. His attorneys are contesting that the prosecution in this case is not giving them full access to all the paperwork in this investigation. So the judge is supposed to make that decision on Monday. And last but not least, Joran has not been interrogated for at least a week since last Thursday, even though the judge ruled that the interrogators will still be able to question Joran. Why he wasn't questioned, we do not know -- Chris?

PIXLEY: Thanks, Anastasiya. Vinda De Sousa, you're the Holloway family attorney. I want to ask you very quickly, the viewers now have heard about this Colombian nationalist gardener, an illegal alien in Aruba, who is obviously becoming an important witness. But as an illegal alien, who has now testified and given sworn testimony, do you have a fear that he will be turned over to immigration and deported, as opposed to being kept in the country? And is there any basis for keeping him in Aruba?

VINDA DE SOUSA, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, of course, the Aruban authorities are entitled to turn him over to the immigration authorities since he's an illegal alien. He has provided a sworn statement. So basically, his task, if I may call it that, in this case is done. I see no reason for him to be held in custody for this case any longer. It's probable that the authorities will turn him over, yes.

PIXLEY: And will you oppose, or will the family oppose, his deportation in any way? Is there any basis for doing that, even?

DE SOUSA: No, there is no basis for the family to oppose, no legal basis. Our criminal procedures code does not allow for the family, in this case, having joined as a victimized party to oppose a deportation, because the immigration laws in Aruba are very clear. If you're an illegal immigrant, you can be deported.

PIXLEY: Vinda, can you explain what happened at this hearing on Monday? I understand that attorneys for all of the parties, not just the prosecution, were allowed to cross-examine and question the gardener on his statement. What was going on there, and is this testimony, as you said, that can be used in the future?

DE SOUSA: Definitely. That's why he was heard in front of the judge of instruction. Because by hearing him in front of the judge of instruction, the parties, both the defense and the prosecution, are allowed to cross-examine him. And the judge himself asks the witness questions. And that will be a put in a sworn affidavit and that is used as evidence in the trial.

PIXLEY: Do you know anything, Vinda, finally about this witness's background? Do you have any expectation that if he is deported and sent back to Colombia, that you will be able to keep tabs on him?

DE SOUSA: I don't think so. If he's deported and sent back to Colombia, I don't think they will be able to keep tabs on him. But as I said before, I don't think it's necessary for them to keep tabs on him anymore, because he has given a statement in front of the judge of instruction with the opportunity for cross-examination by both parties, being the prosecution and the defense. So his task as a witness in this is done.

PIXLEY: OK. I want to go to Henry Lee. Henry, I asked this question of Beth Holloway Twitty. Obviously, when you have the Aruban authorities, the FBI, local volunteers, canine volunteers, all going about their individual investigations, does there come a point in time, without a single lead or without some coordination that this becomes a detriment, that it actually undermines the investigation? Do you have any fear when you know there're all these disparate parties searching this small island?

HENRY LEE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, Chris, you're absolutely right, because so many different agencies are involved, lack of coordination. This case become a cold case now. And very little scientific evidence. Make this case really need some organization, coordination, somebody has to be in charge, reevaluate the witness testimony, look at the timeline analysis. We have a witness say, "That night I saw two of them." They have a piece of evidence they were surfing the Internet. And we have to look at computer evidence on the hard disk, which, in fact, which we can extract the information on. Of course, over the weekend, the arm. And it should be easy to tell that it's a male or female, what the possible age and nationality. And this can get a set of fingerprints. You have hand attached to it and try, of course, later for DNA analysis.

PIXLEY: That brings up another question, too. Are we going too far afield in this investigation when we start looking at evidence that's washing up hundreds of miles away, where reportedly, the Aruban tides don't even reach? Is this something that you think needs to be done in this case, or are we chasing the leads because they're interesting to the media?

LEE: Well, we should at least turn over the stone. Don't leave any stone unturned. To look at arm, in two second we can tell you that's consistent with the victim or not. And, of course, I have a fingerprint and DNA. Three or four days later, we can give you a DNA profile to see if that matches or not. At least we can eliminate that instead of keep waiting. PIXLEY: Let me go for a moment to T.J Ward. T.J., private investigator on the ground, do you put any stock in this latest report that Natalee Holloway may actually have been approached by someone from the adult film industry masquerading as a legitimate modeling agent, somebody that might have [/b]

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'The Abrams Report' for July 13
« 'The Abrams Report' for July 13

Updated: 10:14 a.m. ET July 14, 2005

Guest: Pam Bondi, Lisa Wayne, Steve Emerson, Lincoln Gomez, Henry Bruen, Frank Bowman

Plus, tomorrow judges in Aruba will decide whether the only suspect in custody in connection with

Natalee Holloway's disappearance will go free.  We've got details about the new evidence judges are


ABRAMS:  Now the latest in the story of the missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway.  At this time

tomorrow, the prosecution's lead suspect could be free.  Tomorrow afternoon, three judges will announce

a decision as to whether to release Dutch teen Joran van der Sloot, the only person in custody in

connection with the case.  They'll also decide if brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, who were arrested

with Joran and were released last week, will be re-arrested.  And what about this new evidence that we

hear about presented at today's hearing.

Joining me now with the latest, NBC's Michelle Kosinski.

Michelle, what do you know about what was presented to the judges yesterday?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT:  Well, what we were hearing was sort of tantalizing.  It was put

out there as new developments, new evidence by the prosecution that would indicate that they were

furthering their case before this court of appeals.

But here's the catch.  In this system, prosecutors were not required to put out any new evidence.  This

is simply appeals court judges reviewing the exact same evidence that the lower court had.  But the

prosecutors were required to put out anything new that they were able to get.

So to make that clear, they didn't have to present anything new but if they had something new, then they

have to present it.  So this new evidence which we know now is in the form of witness statements, some

new witness statements in the case, it's out there but it doesn't necessarily benefit the prosecution's

case.  They could be neutral.  They could be things that were already know, but they had to present it.

And that's what we're hearing from all of the attorneys.  And that's really what we rely on to get our

information, the attorneys for all three of these boys.

ABRAMS:  We don't - I was going to say - sorry to interrupt.

KOSINSKI:  Go ahead.

ABRAMS:  We don't know anything about what these witness statements say, right?

KOSINSKI:  Not at all.  But here's what we do know from those attorneys.  They all say, hey, it doesn't

pertain to my client, all across the board, and it's not anything substantial to the case.  So it could

be neutral.  But then again, they want to protect their client.  So they're saying, well, my client

wasn't involved and, you know, whatever was revealed by those statements.

One attorney was very coy when we asked, well, does it pertain to any of the other suspects in this

case.  Didn't want to answer that question and most questions about that evidence, they don't want to

answer because they're really not supposed to.  All of this, remember, is behind closed doors.

So there is new evidence out there, we just don't know how important it will be to prosecutors, if

important at all.

ABRAMS:  All right, Michelle Kosinski, thanks a lot.

All right.  So coming up, how might any new evidence affect the chances that van der Sloot will be

release?  Does he have really a shot of getting out tomorrow?  I mean, tomorrow at this time we're going

to know.  An Aruban attorney joins us next.

And later, WorldCom's CEO Bernie Ebbers sentenced to 25 years behind bars for his involvement in the

largest corporate fraud case in U.S.  history.  We're going to talk to one of his former employees who

lost everything.  He testified today against his former boss.  He's pleased with today's sentence.


ABRAMS:  Coming up, a big day in Aruba tomorrow.  Will the chief suspect in the disappearance of Natalee

Holloway go free.  We'll talk to an Aruban lawyer about what might happen.  First, the headlines.

ABRAMS:  We're back with more on the Aruban investigation into Alabama teen Natalee Holloway's

disappearance.  Tomorrow, we expect to hear the decision of three appeals court judges who, as we speak,

are considering whether to release lead suspect Joran van der Sloot, and maybe even re-arrest brothers

Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.

Joining me now is Aruban Attorney Lincoln Gomez.

Lincoln, thanks for coming back on the program.

All right, let's take these one-by-one.  Let's start with the issue of Joran van der Sloot.  His lawyer

appealing, saying that he should be released.  That the lower court judge got it wrong by ordering that

he remain detained for another 60 days.  Is it a long-shot argument from his attorneys?

LINCOLN GOMEZ, ARUBAN ATTORNEY:  Well, you know, it's the same facts

being presented to this time a three-judge panel.  And it could go

either way.  This three-judge panel may very well find that indeed the

evident is too thin and could then order the release of Joran van der


ABRAMS:  How significant is it that they're looking at new witness statements?

GOMEZ:  Well, again, we don't know the contents of those statements.  But, you know, the question is,

are they really incriminating towards, in this case, Joran van der Sloot.  If they're not, then they may

not have that big of an impact in the decision-making process.

ABRAMS:  What about the Kalpoe brothers?  The prosecutors arguing that the lower court judge made a

mistake in releasing them.  Tough argument for prosecutors to make to say re-arrest them?

GOMEZ:  Well, it's tough to send somebody back in once they've been released.  But, again, it's the same

factors being presented and it could go, again, either way.  Statistically speaking, about 90 percent of

these type of appeals are just confirmed by the appellant court.  So the overturn ratio, it's about 10

percent here.  So there's not a lot of chance of dramatic changes there tomorrow.

ABRAMS:  Is it higher one way or the other?  Meaning, is it generally statistically harder to get

someone rearrested than it is to have someone freed?

GOMEZ:  No, once the first judge has gone through it and has taken a decision, only in 10 percent of the

times, either way, that decision will be reversed.  And if you go back and look at, for instance, the

Joran van der Sloot case, compared to the Kalpoe brothers, there the evidence was deemed too thin in the

part of the Kalpoe brothers.  As far as Joran van der Sloot, the question is, what is still holding him

there.  And one possible explanation for that is the risk of collusion.

ABRAMS:  Judges are human beings.  We like to think that they only look at the law but there's always .

. .

GOMEZ:  We would like to think that.

ABRAMS:  Yes, there's always a level of discretion that comes into this.  How do you think that the

profile of this case, the fact that the world is watching, could impact these judges in terms of making

them more or less likely to free someone or re-arrest someone?  Do you think it's going to make them

more prone in being tough in the sense of keep van der Sloot behind bars and maybe even re-arresting the

Kalpoe brothers?

GOMEZ:  I think - I think the scrutiny that they're facing and the pressure they're under to make sure,

knowing that the world is watching, to make the right decision.  To make a conscious decision and to

make a good decision, regardless of whether or not, you know, people from different sides may like that


ABRAMS:  Hey, Lincoln, can lawyers in - do lawyers in Aruba go to work with polo shirts on?  I love that

idea if they do.

GOMEZ:  Well, it's nice and fresh here.

ABRAMS:  Thanks for coming back.  We appreciate it.

GOMEZ:  Bye-bye.

Nancy Grace for July 14, 2005, CNNHN

Aired July 14, 2005 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news from Aruba. A judge splits the baby, ruling first that another

judge`s 17-year-old son, Joran Van Der Sloot, will stay behind bars in connection with the disappearance

of 18- year-old American beauty Natalee Holloway, and second, that the two Kalpoe brothers will still

walk free tonight, as Natalee`s family desperately searches for answers. Day 46 in Natalee`s

And today, an eminent doctor and researcher, Dr. Jonathan Nyce, convicted for the death of his wife,

Michelle, possibly due to her affair with the gardener.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Guilty. Dr. Jonathan Nyce goes down on a manslaughter verdict in the brutal slaying of his wife,

Michelle, after prosecutors reveal the petite Asian beauty was involved with the family`s gardener.

But first, live to Aruba for breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee

Holloway. Today, a judge orders a fellow judge`s son, 17-year-old suspect Joran Van Der Sloot, to stay

behind bars while the Kalpoe brothers walk free.

Tonight, in Aruba, Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway, is with us; and Aruban defense attorney Arlene

Ellis-Schipper; in Birmingham, Alabama, Natalee`s stepfather, Jug Twitty is with us; in Atlanta, defense

attorney Ray Judache (ph); in New York, defense attorney Michael Mazzarella (ph); in L.A., psychoanalyst

Bethany Marshall.

But first, let`s go live to CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Karl, surprised at the judge`s ruling?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not really. It seemed to be on the cards. There`s been a lot of

pressure here.

Essentially what the judge did, in association with his two colleagues, part of this three-panel appeal,

was leave everything as it was. So Joran Van Der Sloot will stay behind bars. The two Kalpoe brothers,

they`re still suspects, but they`ll still be allowed to go free. They were freed, you`ll remember, a

couple of weeks ago now.

And then there are another couple of bits and pieces there, essentially that Antonio Carlo, Joran Van

Der Sloot`s attorney, can still be present during the interrogations. And also, some of the restrictions

that were lifted on Joran Van Der Sloot can still remain lifted, i.e., he`ll be able to read the

newspaper, and he`ll have some access to TV while he`s behind bars, Nancy.

GRACE: Interesting, Karl Penhaul. Nobody likes to rock the boat there in Aruba.

Let me go to Natalee`s stepfather, Jug Twitty. Do you notice that not a thing changed, this judge didn`t

want to tip the apple cart at all? You`ve got Van Der Sloot, the son, behind bars. The Kalpoe brothers

walk free. Van Der Sloot can still have access to TV, radio, newspapers, and his lawyer can be there

during questioning.

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Well, Nancy, that`s the first I`ve heard of that. I

didn`t know all that. And that`s disappointing to me.

But today, there actually wasn`t one judge. I think there was a three-judge panel that came in and made

the decision. And you know, at least they did keep Joran in there. I think, if they would have let him

out, it would have been devastating to Beth and I, actually probably to the whole world.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right, Jug. You`re right. At least they kept Joran Van Der Sloot behind


Back to Karl Penhaul. He`s been on the case from the get-go. Karl, it seems to me that, if you take a

look at the evidence we know of tonight, what do we actually know?

We know that Joran Van Der Sloot was making phone calls, cell phone calls, to the Kalpoe brothers a

couple of hours after Natalee went missing. Now, if any of the three are involved, that would suggest it

me that Joran Van Der Sloot was involved and using the Kalpoe brothers to cover.

PENHAUL: Not necessarily, Nancy. What we do know, and these from statements that were in the dossier

that one of the defense attorneys from the Kalpoe brothers had and shared some of that with us, was that

Joran Van Der Sloot was dropped off at the beach near the Marriott, according to statements, around 1:50

in the morning.

He then made a phone call to Deepak Kalpoe at about 2:30 or 2:40, so less than an hour later, saying,

"I`m leaving Natalee at the beach, and I`m walking home." And then, about 40 minutes later, we know that

he sent an SMS message, a text message, saying, "OK, Deepak, I`m home."

And we also know at that time from interceptions that Deepak Kalpoe was in at an Internet chat site at

the time. We don`t know what kind of Internet chat site.

GRACE: Well, Karl, my point is, when Van Der Sloot was dropped off, wasn`t he dropped off with Natalee?

PENHAUL: That`s correct. He was dropped off with Natalee. But he said in the phone call to Deepak, "Hey,

Natalee`s staying here, and I`m leaving the beach. And I haven`t got any transport, so I`m walking


GRACE: Well, wouldn`t that suggest to you that the Kalpoe brothers had already left him alone with


PENHAUL: That they do say in their witness statement, that they dropped him off at 1:50. Both Satish and

Deepak left Joran and Natalee alone together at the beach so they could go for a walk along the beach.

GRACE: Jug, how do you see it?

TWITTY: Well, Nancy, Karl has been there almost as long as I was down there. And he knows better than

that. I mean, you know Joran is -- when he says not necessarily, you know, he`s involved, goodness

gracious, Nancy. It`s unbelievable that he would say that.

GRACE: I think what he was saying -- I was asking about the Kalpoe brothers, about whether Joran was

involved in using them as cover. I`m getting the feeling that a lot of people think they were all three

involved, not just Joran.

TWITTY: Well, I think the world knows that all of them know more than they`re saying. And that`s why

this case is where it is today. Everybody is concerned that, you know, why are they not getting the

answers? Those boys have the answers. You know, they know what they did with Natalee.

GRACE: Jug, why are you so convinced?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, Nancy, just -- if the story still stood that the night that I confronted the

judge, so-called judge, and the son, and Deepak, and they sit there and told me that, "Yes, here is what

we did. We took her to the Holiday Inn. Come with me; we`ll show you. We`ll talk to the guards."

Of course, the guards never saw them. It`s not on the video. They say that, for nine days before they

arrested them, that was the story. And then, all of a sudden, they change the story. So why did they do

that? The whole world knows that.

GRACE: Hey, Jug...

TWITTY: I mean, why didn`t they tell me to start with that that`s what they did? They took her to the

beach. They dropped her off with Joran, and then, you know, that would be different.

GRACE: Jug, you`re preaching to the choir. Listen...

TWITTY: I know I am, Nancy.

GRACE: When a suspect starts changing their story up to eight versions, something is wrong.

TWITTY: I know you`re on my side. I mean, know you are. You`ve helped Beth, and I, and my family so

much. And I appreciate it.

And that`s what`s so frustrating to my family, to myself, I mean, to everybody in the whole world.

GRACE: I agree with you 300 percent.

And, Karl Penhaul, speaking of changing stories, the latest A.P. wire tonight says one of the reasons

the judges kept Van Der Sloot behind bars is because he`s changed his story again. This is the ninth


PENHAUL: And probably at least the ninth story, because that`s the other part. I mean, certainly what

George says is correct. Some of these three, if not all three, do know exactly what happened that night.

And we know through the multiple statements that at least Joran hasn`t been telling the full truth and

far from it all that time. We know that there were at least eight or nine different statements made by

him, some of them very significant story changes.

GRACE: Let`s go to Dave Holloway, Natalee`s biological father. Mr. Holloway, thank you for being with

us. What is your response to the judge`s ruling today?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Well, I was quite relieved of the decision, believe it or not.

I was hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. And it came in the middle.

And I was relieved that the main suspect remained behind bars. And hopefully, as time goes on, we`ll

develop more in the investigation.

GRACE: Mr. Holloway, everybody is speculating based on the tidbits of evidence that we do know exist

what happened that night. What do you make of the fact that Joran Van Der Sloot, the judge`s son, was

making these phone calls, cell phone calls, text messaging, to the Kalpoe brothers after they had left

him alone with Natalee?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I don`t know what to make of it, because really we don`t know the whole story. All we

really know for a fact is they left Carlos and Charlie`s. After that, it`s a lot of speculation and a

lot of fill in the blanks.

But you know, it sounds like to me that the prime suspect`s behind bars. And as a judge said earlier,

you know, common sense is this, Nancy. If you and I were involved in something, and then I come to you

and ask you to make up a story about, "We dropped her off at the Holiday Inn," wouldn`t you ask

questions of why, if you were not involved in something? Why would you make up the story?

GRACE: Absolutely, Mr. Holloway. Exactly.

And my reasoning, thinking that, just on what we know tonight, when you look at all three of them, why

would the Kalpoe brothers go along with making up this story? And we already know from the deejay, Steve

Croes, who was released, he heard one of the Kalpoe brothers on the phone at Internet cafe cooking up a


This guy got arrested when he went to police with what he knew. He has since been released.

But as a matter of fact, all of those phone calls, all of those text messages, Karl Penhaul, I hope, I

pray, the Aruban police have gotten a hold of the records, right, Karl?

PENHAUL: Absolutely. That`s where these records have come from, from Aruban police. And from what some

of the defense attorneys say, that is an indication that maybe that part wasn`t a cover-up because they

didn`t have time to cover it up. Maybe it is part of an elaborate plan. That`s something, obviously,

that investigators will be looking at.

But don`t forget also that there are two fisherman that come forward from that night, they`ve come

forward to say the way Joran Van Der Sloot says that he walked with Natalee and left Natalee, they say

they were out there fishing all night and never saw any of that going on. So even that bit seems, or

could have been a lie, if those two witnesses are telling the truth.

GRACE: Well, at this juncture, Dave Holloway, do you believe a single word Joran Van Der Sloot says,


HOLLOWAY: That`s what I said earlier. All we know is, when they left the bar that night. Again, as I

understand, this is the 15th story he`s told and the Marriott story may not even be true at all.

GRACE: Fifteen? Holy moly. I knew of nine. I didn`t know it had changed 15 times.

We`re headed to break. But very quickly, Rosie, Renee, could you show me that one quick piece of video

where Joran Van Der Sloot is handcuffed to one of the Kalpoe brothers?

Ray Judache (ph), defense attorney, look at this. Is this not a defense attorney`s dream come true? You

get the co-defendants, the co- suspects, handcuffed together for a nice long drive through the country

to just firm up their story. This is courtesy of the Aruban police, Ray.

RAY JUDACHE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY (ph): Well, Nancy, it`s certainly not what would be acceptable police

practice here in the United States in any jurisdiction, to allow these guys to get together and spend

time together, to have access to his father, to be able to make these phone calls, you know, hot on the

trail of a missing persons investigation, especially with young men who are susceptible to making

stories up.

They knew the pressure was on. Even if it was just a missing persons case -- and I don`t believe it is

-- I believe it`s a homicide.

GRACE: Hey, check it out, Ray. I hope they turn on the air conditioning for them. I don`t want Van Der

Sloot and Kalpoe to get warm on that ride together.

Hey, Michael Mazzarella (ph), defense attorney`s dream to see your client full access to co-defendant,

co-suspect cooking up a story.

MICHAEL MAZZARELLA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY (ph): Absolutely. And, Nancy, the question I have is, how many

times prior to this occasion did these young men text message each other and speak to each other 1, 2,

3, 4 o`clock in the morning? I think the police should subpoena those records and see how consistent

these stories are. I think it would be telling.

GRACE: Well, you know, the Aruban police are probably just getting around to that tonight if they`re

watching you, Michael.

Everybody, we`ll be right back.

IGELLA WERNET, ARUBAN COURT CLERK: The circumstances under which Natalee Holloway disappeared do justify

at this moment the presumption that we can speak of a serious crime. For the suspect, it is

incriminating that he was in her company until shortly before her disappearance and that originally he

did not tell the truth about what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From what I understand, they have not been ruled out as a suspect. The prosecution

still has a case against them. The only thing that, at this point, they are not -- there is not enough

to hold them in a pretrial detention. So basically, it`s an open-end for them at this moment.


GRACE: Open end, up until about 116 days. Then the state must either fish or cut bait, I will put it


Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace.

Let`s go straight back down to Aruba. I want to speak with Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper.

Thank you for being with us tonight, Arlene. Got a couple of questions for you. Regarding these two

Kalpoe brothers, as well as Joran Van Der Sloot, in Aruba, is there a grand jury? How is someone

formally indicted?

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well, there is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system.

You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion, and then, as you know, Nancy, there are

several assessments made by a judge of instruction. After, if the person is still in pretrial detention

on certain -- based on certain grounds, like, for instance, Joran Van Der Sloot, after a maximum of 146

days, the prosecution must determine the criminal offense that has been committed and make an official

summation for court.

So she has to decide whether she will bring that case to court. That does not mean that the trial is

already starting, but she has to issue that summation.

GRACE: Now, at that time, Arlene, can the person -- if you don`t have your case together in 116 days,

you have to let them out of jail. If you then later get evidence on them, can you bring them back, or is

it all over at the end of 116 days?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: No. It`s at the end of 146 days, that`s first full. And yes, you can bring them back if

the case is not complete and, for instance, in this case, God forbid, that they cannot determine what

criminal offense has been committed, the case remains open.

And it can remain open for a whole number of years, actually, until the due process, the international

rules about due process, up to two years.

GRACE: I want to go back...

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: And during that time -- I`m sorry.

GRACE: Go ahead.

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: No, I said, during that time, the prosecutor can always decide when she gets more

evidence to bring that case to trial.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.


QUESTION: Does the prosecutor have new evidence? Was there more presented against your client?

ANTONIO CARLOS, ATTORNEY FOR JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: Not really. Today, there was no really new evidence.

QUESTION: How`s Joran? How is his demeanor?

CARLOS: He`s doing well. He is holding up. He is very hopeful. And, again, today he is continuing to

maintain his innocence.


GRACE: Let`s go down to CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul.

Karl, I just heard Natalee`s father, Mr. Holloway, state that there have now been 15 -- not nine, as you

and I were speculating -- but 15 different stories spit out by the judge`s son, Joran Van Der Sloot, 15.

Do you know what the most recent version it?

PENHAUL: Not precisely. It could be that the family`s got a little better access to that information

than even the defense attorneys, because they`re getting a daily briefing by Aruban authorities and the


But certainly, there may be 15 different statements. Not necessarily all of them represent significant

changes. It could be a detail here, a detail there.

But obviously, what it does amount to, as Dave and Jug are saying, is that, why would they believe one

story over another? As Joran Van Der Sloot is presented with different pieces of evidence, such as the

text messages, such as the phone call records, he then goes and changes his story either to give a

little bit more of the truth or to change the story for another lie, depending which way you look at it.

GRACE: Karl Penhaul, what is the significance of keeping Joran Van Der Sloot away from TV, radio,

newspapers, as the prosecution wanted?

PENHAUL: I guess possibly to put a little bit more pressure on him so that he doesn`t know how this case

is going, in terms of public opinion. Possibly also to add to the sense of isolation that he feels

himself in.

At the end of the day, he`s a 17-year-old boy. And the longer he`s away from those kind of things,

possibly the more desperate he`s getting to feel. But with this appeal, he can still have access to

those things, newspapers and TV.

GRACE: To Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway, joining us from Aruba. Are you still going to or having daily

briefings with the prosecution?

HOLLOWAY: Well, we have a lot of our briefings through our personal attorney, Vinda de Sousa. And we

also have -- every other day, we have a meeting with the FBI correspondent that`s with us.

GRACE: Dave, you mentioned that there have been 15 different versions of the truth by Joran Van Der

Sloot. What`s the latest version?

HOLLOWAY: Well, the latest version was that of the witnesses who rebuked his claim that he was north of

the Marriott with Natalee. Those two fishermen, or three fishermen is what I thought it was, had

indicated that no one had stopped in at the fishermen`s hut that night.

GRACE: So that was just a crock of lies?

HOLLOWAY: Well, apparently so.

GRACE: OK. Well, we know this: Both stories can`t be true. Somebody`s lying. And as I always used to

tell jurors, take a look at who has the most to lose.

Those three fishermen? Did they have a dog in the fight? I don`t think so. No skin in the game. The only

one that had something to lose is Joran Van Der Sloot.

Quick break, everybody. And we have invited the Van Der Sloot family and attorneys on, as well as the

district attorney, the prosecutor there. They did not want to speak.


GRACE: Eighteen-year-old American honor student Natalee Holloway had a full scholarship waiting for her

when she came home from her senior trip from Aruba. As of now, she`s been missing 46 days.

We are live in Aruba tonight. Very quickly to CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Since the Kalpoe brothers

are out, Karl, are they still considered suspects?

PENHAUL: They are, indeed. Anybody that`s been arrested in this case and then released is still regarded

as a suspect. I guess that also applies to Judge Paul Van Der Sloot, as well.

GRACE: Are Aruban authorities still actively searching for Natalee? Are they leaving it up to Natalee`s

family to do all the heavy lifting?

PENHAUL: Well, we`ve seen Texas EquuSearch leading parts of the search, but we`ve also seen backing

there by police on occasion from the Dutch marines. We`ve seen those Dutch Air Force F-16 fighters...

GRACE: But really, Karl Penhaul, when you say an F-16 fighter, how are they going to find Natalee

Holloway? That`s a plane flying overhead, for Pete`s sake.

PENHAUL: Right, but there were three planes. And they were flying in a strict grid pattern there for the

space of almost a week. They`ve got some pretty sophisticated camera devices on.

They`re not only heat-seeking and forward-looking infrared, but other kinds of devices on there that

have tracked the island in a grid pattern. And they say they`re 99 percent sure Natalee`s remains aren`t

on the island.

GRACE: Everybody, when we get back, we`re going back to Natalee`s stepfather, as well as her biological

father. They are both with us tonight for the latest on a judge`s ruling today on the Natalee Holloway




ISELLA WERNET, ARUBAN COURT CLERK: The investigation requires that the preventive custody is continued

because the suspect recently retracted earlier statements again, and that further investigation is

required to verify the exactitude of that most recent statement in connections with all the other

statements of the suspect ,without the suspect having the opportunity to influence the investigation.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Day 46, and today a break in the case of Natalee

Holloway, in that a judge demands that Joran Van Der Sloot stay behind bars while the Kalpoe brothers,

also suspects in the case, walk free.

I want to go to Dave Holloway. This is Natalee`s father. He`s with us tonight from Aruba. My thought is

back to Carlos and Charlie`s, the night that Natalee went. Weren`t her friends concerned about leaving

her there alone with two -- with local guys?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, MISSING GIRL`S FATHER: Nancy, I did not have the opportunity to speak with her friends.

But later on, I did find out that Joran had indicated to the group that he was a student visiting here

from Holland, and the group thought he was a guest at the Holiday Inn. And when they left Carlos and

Charlie`s, he left with Natalee and Natalee alone, and they were not holding hands or anything like


So what happened next, I can only fill in the blanks, but I suppose that Deepak was waiting in the car,

and she may have thought it was a taxi because all the taxis around here, all they have in them is a

small yellow tag up on the dash that says "Taxi." And then furthermore, I understand that the Satish boy

may have entered the car after Natalee and the other guys were already in the vehicle.

GRACE: Jug Twitty, agree or disagree about the way Natalee left Carlos and Charlie`s that night?

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, MISSING GIRL`S STEPFATHER: Oh, Nancy, I don`t know. I mean, I know that she got in

the car, and I agree with Dave that - - you know, that all the cars look alike down there, and you can`t

tell. You know, we`ve been down there 38 days, I`ve been in all different type taxis, so, you know, who

knows what happened.

GRACE: Do the taxis there look like a regular car?

TWITTY: Sure. I mean, they got all kinds. They got everything from Mercedes to -- you know, to Chevettes

or whatever. I mean, they`ve got everything there. You cannot tell -- most of them do have a taxi

sticker in the window or whatever.

GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, psychotherapist joining us tonight. It seems as if everything Joran Van Der

Sloot has said from the get-go...


GRACE: ... even telling Natalee he was a student from Holland, for Pete`s sake -- everything has been a


MARSHALL: It has. And the only thread that ties all these stories together is a CYA. He`s covering his

own behind, getting what he wants, reaching out, exploiting people. The one thing that doesn`t exist in

any of these stories is the truth.

GRACE: I`m just wondering -- back to Dave Holloway -- will the so- called judge, Van Der Sloot, be able

to continue to visit his son behind bars?

HOLLOWAY: You know, I`m not sure about that. All I got today was the information that it`s status quo.

So if he was visiting his son prior to the decision, then he can continue visiting his son now.

GRACE: Well, also, Dave, it seems to me, for the prosecutor -- there he goes! Of course, once again, I`m

more familiar with his backside than I am his face because whenever Karl Penhaul asks him a question, he

runs. There he is. That`s the judge, Judge Van Der Sloot.

Dave Holloway, it seems to me that for prosecutors to ask for the Kalpoe brothers to be put back in

jail, they had to have some more evidence to ask for a change in the status quo. What did they have?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I`m not sure about that. But if you`ll remember, we had the fishermen, who indicated

that the guys were not at the Marriott beach. And as I understand, that`s where the Kalpoe brothers said

they brought Joran and Natalee of at the beach. So there you go. I believe that puts them back in it.

GRACE: And I want to go back to Karl Penhaul regarding these fishermen. What exactly was it that they

told the authorities?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They told the authorities, according to the statement that was seen by

the defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, that they`d been on the beach between about 12:00 midnight and

5:00 AM, at an area known as the "fishermen`s huts." That`s the area where the Kalpoe brothers say that

they dropped off Joran and Natalee together.

Bear in mind, though, they were on the beach. Then there`s a mangrove area, and then there`s the road

where the Kalpoes would have dropped Joran. And so they would have had to have made their way through

the mangroves to get to the beach, so it could be that the Kalpoe brothers did drop them off on that

road but that they stayed in the mangroves.

What the fishermen do, interestingly, say, though, is that sometime in the timeframe when they were

there, they`re assuming sometime around 3:00 AM, that they saw a Jeep-type vehicle pull up near the

beach. That was the only vehicle that they saw close to the beach, a Jeep-type vehicle.

GRACE: I want to go to Jug Twitty, Natalee`s stepdad. These three judges -- didn`t they have prior

interaction with Van Der Sloot`s father, the judge wannabe? Don`t they all know each other?

TWITTY: I don`t know about these three. These are all three new judges. They`ve -- they`ve -- you know,

it`s not anybody that`s been on the case before.

GRACE: Well, I`m glad to hear that.

TWITTY: Well, you know, Nancy, the one thing, though, I would say, that, you know, you -- today, Beth

and I -- keeping Joran in there was a big thing for us. And we`d like to have seen Deepak or Satish go

back in, but Joran staying in there was big for us.

And you know what? If I was the so-called judge and my son was now going to be in there for 60 days, I

believe I would try to start talking to people, I would try to -- if he thinks he`s innocent, then he

needs to come out and he needs to tell the world and he needs to talk to Joran and prove they`re

innocent. I wouldn`t want my son, George, in there for 60 days. This would be something that, I`m saying

-- you know, I would do everything in the world to try to tell the world that he`s innocent.

GRACE: Michael Mazarella (ph), a response.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree 100 percent, Nancy. These three guys should be incarcerated, squeeze them.

And you know, once they start lying, they got to get their lie right, and I wholeheartedly agree with

the father.

GRACE: Well, the thing is, Ray Giudice, there`s no way for the Kalpoe brothers to keep their lies

straight with Joran Van Der Sloot because he`s already had either 9 to 15 different stories.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, with respect to the family, in deference to the family, I just

want to say that it may not be a bad thing for the brothers to be out. The police will have more access

to them in a more comfortable setting. We don`t know if the brothers are communicating with Van Der

Sloot and/or his father while in custody.

And if you look at the overall investigation, the quality of it, that is not an impossibility. You may

want to get them out, where you can sit down and talk to them, maybe talk about them turning, quote,

unquote, "state`s evidence," state`s witnesses, away from Van Der Sloot, away from the arm of

prosecution, and you might get some progress there.

I understand how the family feels, and I respect that, but I don`t necessarily think that having the

brothers out is a fatal flaw to this investigation. It may cut the other way.

GRACE: Well, you know, the thing is, Ray, if I thought the police were actually wiretapping them,

following them, getting their text messages, getting their phone records, you may be right, flushing

them out in that manner. But I`m not so convinced that the Aruban police are all on top of it in that


Very quickly, to Karl Penhaul. Why would Joran lie from the get-go?

PENHAUL: Why was what? Sorry, Nancy?

GRACE: Why would Joran Van Der Sloot lie from the get-go, from the beginning?

PENHAUL: It would be speculation on my part, but talking to some of the defense attorneys, they`re

saying, Well, he`s a young guy, he may have panicked at the start. They all knew that there was some

kind of trouble when Natalee disappeared, and that`s why they say, initially, that they invented this

cover story to put themselves completely in the clear...

GRACE: Wait. Wait, wait! Wait, wait! Karl...

PENHAUL: ... but it could be after that, he panicked.

GRACE: Karl, are you telling me that theory that there was an accident and Natalee died and they


PENHAUL: I really wish I knew that. The motive here is the one that mystifies me...

GRACE: Right.

PENHAUL: ... and also, these guys, if any of them have killed Natalee, are certainly not hardened

killers with any criminal record. So how did they react in such a short time to cover up all these

tracks that are defying all efforts to find Natalee?

GRACE: Good point, Karl Penhaul.

Very quickly, to Michael Mazarella. But here`s the thing. Michael, if you fell and hit your head out

there in the hall tonight as you were leaving, I wouldn`t suddenly try to cover up the body and flush

you down the commode and throw you out the window!


GRACE: No! I`d call 911. So why feel the need to cover up an accident, if there were an accident?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. And I don`t buy it whatsoever, Nancy.

GRACE: I don`t buy that for one minute!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. What needs to be done, Nancy, is a systematic investigation. The judge could

be the answer as to how they got their stories straight. Those phone calls in the middle of the night

are key.

GRACE: OK, everybody. Quick break. I want to thank Dave Holloway and Jug Twitty. Please join us again,

sirs. Our thoughts and prayers with you and your families.
Aruban Judge: Dutch Teen Stays in Jail
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2006, 10:29:27 AM »
   Reply with quote
Aruban Judge: Dutch Teen Stays in Jail

Friday, July 15, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba —  A 17-year-old Dutch youth must remain behind bars as authorities try to find out

what happened to Natalee Holloway, who was last seen six weeks ago leaving a nightclub, an appeals court

said Thursday.

The court also ruled that there was not enough evidence to detain two Surinamese brothers in connection

with the disappearance of the 18-year-old Alabama woman.

During a closed hearing Tuesday, a judge heard appeals from a defense lawyer seeking the release of

Joran van der Sloot (search) — the son of a judge in training on the island — and from prosecutors

asking for the re-arrest of Deepak Kalpoe (search), 21, and his brother, Satish, 18.

A three-judge panel decided there was adequate grounds to suspect van der Sloot of involvement in

Holloway's disappearance.

"He was in her company and gave varying statements about what happened then and afterwards," according

to the ruling, which was read by a court clerk.

The ruling also said that van der Sloot had recently change his account of the night of Holloway's

disappearance and authorities need time to investigate the new version.

"We are a bit disappointed," said Richie Kock, a lawyer for van der Sloot. "We had a fair chance that he

would be released."

Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes were among the last people to see Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala.,

before she vanished on the final night of her high-school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island.

Another court ordered the release of the brothers July 4.

The missing teen's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty (search), said she was "pleased with the judge's ruling

on Joran," but disappointed with the decision on the brothers, whom she has insisted were involved in

her daughter's disappearance.

Holloway Twitty said she was not sure how long she would remain in Aruba.

"We know eventually we will have to pull out," she said.

Van der Sloot has been in custody since June 9, when he was arrested along with the brothers. No one has

been charged in Holloway's disappearance.

Van der Sloot's father, Paul, and three other men were detained in the case but released last month.

Holloway vanished in the early hours of May 30, just before she was to catch a flight home from a five-

day vacation celebrating graduation with 124 classmates.

Extensive searches of the island and surrounding waters by Aruban and Dutch authorities, FBI agents and

volunteers have turned up no trace of the young woman. Members of a volunteer search team from Florida

State University's underwater crime scene investigation department left the island Tuesday.,2933,162601,00.html
Every Man for Himself'- GretaWire
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2006, 10:32:16 AM »
   Reply with quote
Every Man for Himself'

Friday, July 15, 2005

By Greta Van Susteren

Check out my photo essay from Aruba (search) by clicking on the link in the photo box.

We landed about 12:30 p.m. Thursday in Aruba and had 90 minutes to go about three miles to the

courthouse for the decision by the judges. That seemed like ample time — or so we thought. As luck would

have it, one of our group got stopped at customs. Our "shooter" had to bring so much equipment into

Aruba to do our show that customs stopped him and went through everything. It took more than an hour for

him to get through and we began to panic. Finally we decided "every man for himself" and left him at

customs and went to the courthouse without him. He finally made it through customs and took a cab to

meet up with us. Needless to say, we were worried that our sleepless night so that we could get a flight

to get to Aruba for the decision was wasted effort. In the end it worked out... but only after putting

us in a full-scale panic.

After the decision was issued, we raced to all the lawyers' offices. We talked to two of the lawyers on

camera (and showed both interviews last night) and one lawyer would not talk to us on camera — Joran van

der Sloot's (search) lawyer. Joran's lawyer was polite and gracious and did speak to us... just not on

camera. Incidentally, Satish Kalpoe's (search) usual lawyer is on vacation so his partner who is now

handling the case spoke to us. The partner was willing to talk to us because he was a big fan of the

show I did at CNN — "Burden of Proof." He said he watched it daily... the only regrettable thing he said

was that he was in high school when he watched it making me feel 110 years old.

From the lawyers' offices we raced to the Kalpoe home. We knew they were home (their car was there and

there was noise inside the house) but they would not answer the door for us. So we left and raced to the

other side of the island to shoot tape of the search with the dogs. We shot that cadaver dog search

tape... and then decided to try again getting the Kalpoe family to talk. So we got back in the car and

once again raced back to the other side of the island to the Kalpoe house. We could again hear the TV on

inside the house but no one answered the door. The Kalpoe brothers' mother has always answered the door

to us so we are not sure why she did not yesterday (maybe she was not home... maybe she is sick of us.)

Of course we will try again today — we are persistent.

I also called Paul van der Sloot from the car as we raced back and forth all day. When I identified

myself, he said, "I have nothing to say" — or something like that — and hung up.

In between all the racing around yesterday, we stopped and checked into our hotel. Unfortunately there

is no high-speed Internet capability in the hotel (we could not get back in the Marriott Hotel on this

trip — it is booked full) so it was a scramble to get ready for the show and do the blog this morning.

After our racing around all day yesterday, I had hoped to prepare for the show in my room. Since there's

no high speed, I had to go back to the workspace at the Marriott to log on to our computer system. We

have some high security system at FOX that requires a high-speed connection — we can't just dial up in a

hotel room.

Thursday night's show started with a surprise for me. I was sitting on our set in Aruba with Beth

Holloway Twitty ready go and ready to get the cue to start when suddenly I heard Uma Pemmaraju say, "Hi,

I am Uma Pemmaraju sitting in for Greta Van Susteren who has technical problem."

I did not know we had technical problems or that New York had "lost" us. Of course I listened

attentively and was happy when I was told, "They have us" — which meant to me that we would not be back

in the show. I was momentarily disappointed that we had flown to Aruba on virtually no sleep, worked the

entire day and then to think we would not make air. Things like this happen in TV... but in the end it

all worked out since our technical problem was limited to a few minutes.

Incidentally, I think the problems were related to the weather here in Aruba. We have a tropical storm

warning and it is now raining hard (it was raining intermittently in our show last night.) I am not sure

what surprises the weather will bring us today. I do know that we have many projects planned for today

which take us outside. Hence don't be surprised if I look like a 'drowned rat' when I do the show

« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2006, 10:37:49 AM »
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Panel Discusses Natalee Holloway Case

Aired July 15, 2005 - 21:00   ET


TED ROWLANDS, CNN HOST: Tonight, after 47 long, agonizing days, Natalee Holloway's fate remains a

mystery. Yesterday, an Aruban judge ruled another judge's son stays in jail and that two brothers who

had been jailed remain free. Now, the latest on how her family's holding up, with her uncle, Paul

Plus, Tim Miller, leading that Texas team in Aruba searching for Natalee. Also with us, CNN's Susan

Candiotti with news on the FBI's involvement in the case. Florida Assistant State Attorney Stacey

Honowitz. High-profile defense attorney, Michael Cardoza, and forensic expect Dr. Kathy Reichs. They're

all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Hey, hello. And welcome, everybody. I'm Ted Rowlands in for Larry tonight.

It has been 47 long, anguished days since 18-year-old Alabama honor student Natalee Holloway disappeared

on the island of Aruba. Her fate is still a mystery.

Earlier this week, a three-judge panel ruled that a 17-year-old Dutch student, Joran Van Der Sloot, must

remain behind bars as authorities try to figure out what happened to Natalee. Joran, the son of a judge

in training, has been in custody since June 9th.

He and two brothers, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, are the last three people known to have seen Natalee. The

Kalpoe brothers were taken into custody on June 9th, as well, then released on grounds of insufficient

evidence on July 4th. A prosecution appeal to have them brought back into custody was rejected on


Thus far, no one has been formally charged in connection with Natalee's disappearance.

Tim Miller is the director EquuSearch. He is in Aruba tonight.

Tim, something was found on the beach. What was it? And was there any significance to the case?

TIM MILLER, EQUUSEARCH DIRECTOR: Well, you know, I think it was wonderful what was found on the beach

today. Again, we did some things that eliminated where Natalee's at.

In all honesty, I wish she would have been in that barrel. We found some things in it. It's terrible to

say that we wish we'd find Natalee's body, but I feel as though Natalee is dead somewhere. I don't think

she made it off this island. Or if she did, she ended up in the water.

So we're trying to cover all that stuff. And you know, we was a little disappointed at the end of it

today. I mean, we put a tremendous amount of work in it and, again, eliminated something but, you know,


ROWLANDS: This was a cement barrel? Was it actually in the water? Was it in the sand? What was the


MILLER: Well, I bought a 250-foot rope, and we used up every inch of the rope to tie off the barrel, and

then we got many people on the beach to pull the barrel in.

The storm came in, so when we were diving, we really couldn't see. We knew it was a barrel. We knew it

had some concrete. We felt as though that possibly, if Natalee was dumped out there, that they don't

want Natalee to float. They don't want her to end up in anyplace.

I mean, this has been a big high-profile case, so, you know, we feel as though there is a chance she was

dumped in a container in the water. So we're just checking out everything. And we came up empty- handed,

but I'm proud of what we did. I just really wish Natalee would have been in there so everybody could

have some closure on this.

ROWLANDS: Tuesday on this show you said that you found a spot you think possibly Natalee was at, at one

point before she was, quote, "moved." Did anything come of that? And have you really found anything of

significance since you've started searching?

MILLER: We've not found anything that really means anything in this case. I'm certainly not convinced

that that area we found the other day may not have had something to do with Natalee's disappearance. You

know, it's possible that she was buried, and that's what got us excited about that.

We were actually searching on the other side of the island when a guy drove up to us and told us where

we needed to go. And he said, "Don't tamper with evidence when you get there."

We went there. We saw that, which certainly appeared as a grave site. Remembering what they said early

on, that, you know, they buried her. You know, we felt as though maybe they buried her a couple of days

later, somebody hired somebody to go ahead and dig her up, and dispose of her someplace so she'd never

be found.

So I'm not totally convinced at this time -- even though there wasn't any evidence found, I'm not

totally convinced that that wasn't a possibility that Natalee was there at one time or another.

ROWLANDS: Paul Reynolds is Natalee Holloway's uncle, brother of Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty.

Tonight, he is in Houston, Texas.

You hear about a barrel today, a few days ago, a spot where she may have been. How frustrating is it for

the family? Did you think that this nightmare would last, now 47 days?

PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE: We certainly never expected this to go this long. You know, we

understand the frustration. We appreciate Tim's efforts out there looking every day, following up on the


That's what we want to happen. That's what's necessary to get to the bottom of this. You know, we're

there to stick this out. My sister is there. You know, we want the truth to come out, no matter what


ROWLANDS: Are you confident that the truth will come out here, one way or another, and it's just going

to take time? Or are you fearful that you'll never know exactly what happened to Natalee?

REYNOLDS: I feel like we will know. I'm confident that, with the people involved, the determination that

we have. And you know, we certainly have hope that we will get the truth and we will find out what

happened and where she is.

ROWLANDS: Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent covering this for CNN is in Miami tonight. Susan, I know

you have some information about the FBI's frustration, let alone the family's frustration.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, everyone's disappointed, obviously, about the inability to

solve this difficult case. And tonight, we're hearing from a source close to the investigation, a law

enforcement source, that, as you know, the FBI has been involved in this investigation -- invited by the

Aruban authorities to come down and participate, to observe basically.

And we learned that the FBI has asked on more than one occasion to take a close look at what's been

gathered so far, for example, statements made, interviews conducted, evidence collected, that kind of

thing, as it's been explained to me, to try to give a fresh perspective to things.

Well, I have learned that they have been turned down on more than one occasion to get a look at this

information. And for example, I'm also told by sources that the FBI profile of her was there on one


And a Dutch profiler who has also been provided in on this case has offered advice, for example, on

techniques in interviewing this teenager, Joran Van Der Sloot, the son of the judge, the teenage son of

the judge, and that advice has not been used, apparently.

Now, we've gone to government spokespeople to ask them about that. We've also talked to a spokesperson

for the prosecutor's office to find out -- try to find out why. And according to one source, the local

rules don't allow the FBI, who is actively not participating but observing and assisting, to look at

this information.

But we also, according to the government spokesperson and the prosecutor's office, they couldn't really

give us a clear-cut answer. They said, "They're assisting us. We're thinking about it. We're allowing

them to do certain things, and not allowing them to do others."

ROWLANDS: Stacey Honowitz, does that surprise you? And if they're not supposed to share information,

that's not going to fly very well in the local community, if the FBI comes in and wants to take this

over. Clearly, in a case that's so high-profile, that seems to make sense to me.

STACEY HONOWITZ, Florida ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: Well, I'll tell you something. We were on the show

Tuesday night. And Michael Cardoza made a poin

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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 05:25:47 AM »

Cloned MSNBC 06/9/2005 

MSNBC 'Scarborough Country' for June 9

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  The tragic story continues to develop in Aruba.  These three men are in custody tonight in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, but still no sign of the young 18-year-old girl from Birmingham, Alabama.  The mystery in Aruba gets darker and darker.  And we‘ll have full coverage tonight. 

Three more men arrested in Aruba, including the son of a powerful local family.  And there is still no sign of Natalee.  We‘re going to have live expanded coverage tonight and have all of the latest developments, including information that the search has expanded beyond the shores of the tiny island.  And we‘ll be asking, where could Natalee Holloway be? 

Then, the fifth day of deliberations in the Jackson case, but still no verdict, this as reports of rising tensions, and outside the courthouse, one reporter gets a court order against a rabid Michael Jackson supporter.  We‘ll be live in California with that.  And we‘ll also talk to two legal eagles who know that waiting is the hardest part and what this waiting means. 

Plus, Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, are they Hollywood‘s newest lovebirds or a match made only in Hollywood, with Tom Cruise pulling the strings?  Or maybe it‘s about Scientology?  We‘ll ask the question and get the answers you want to know. 

ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

SCARBOROUGH:  It‘s been a day of major developments in the case of Natalee Holloway, who was last seen at a nightclub in Aruba seven days ago. 

In a minute, we‘re going to tell you about three new suspects and also showing you a picture now.  It actually is from an Internet site.  These are the three men whose identities have been confirmed by a local TV reporter and a lawyer.  Also this hour, we‘re going to be talking to one of Natalee‘s close friends who was with her the night she disappeared and is in Aruba now, still helping on the frantic search for her lost friend. 

But, first, let‘s go live to Aruba and talk to NBC‘s Martin Savidge and get the very latest. 

Martin, a fascinating day in Aruba.  Give us the very latest. 


Tonight, five suspects in custody, behind bars, and still no real firm idea as to what has happened with Natalee Holloway or, most of all, where she is.  The three latest suspects were arrested early this morning.  They are young men between the ages of 17 and 21.  They were formerly known as persons of interest., the last three people that eyewitnesses say they saw Natalee Holloway with the night that she vanished. 

However, these same three admit to all of that.  They did party with her.  They were in the nightclub with her.  And she did get in their car and drive off, drive around the island for a bit.  But one thing they agree on, they brought her back to her hotel, and she was alive and well when they left her. 

Now, obviously, authorities don‘t necessarily buy their story.  That‘s why they‘re in custody.  How did they meet?  That‘s one question that was brought up.  Here‘s the answer that was given at a press conference by authorities this afternoon. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Yes, that‘s true.  They know the boy, yes.

QUESTION:  How do they know them and for how long? 

JAN VAN DER STRATEN, CHIEF POLICE COMMISSIONER:  They meet each other in the casino. 

QUESTION:  That day or a previous day? 

VAN DER STRATEN:  The day before. 

QUESTION:  The day before.  All three of them? 

VAN DER STRATEN:  No, the youngest boy, the 17-year-old boy. 


SAVIDGE:  One thing is clear.  The pressure continues to grow.  Even the prime minister of Aruba today said that he was growing frustrated at the pace of this investigation.  Still, he knows it‘s police work.  Five suspects in custody and still no idea of where Natalee Holloway is—Joe.

SCARBOROUGH:  Martin, let me ask you a quick follow-up question here. 

Obviously, so many of us knew right after this happened that there were three persons of interest.  There was a lot of talk about one of these men, the Dutch boys actually being connected to a powerful person in Aruba.  Tonight, a lot of people are asking, why did it take the police officers so long to search his car, to search his home?  Why did they start this investigation 11 days after Natalee went missing? 

SAVIDGE:  Well, the answer to that one is that, initially, they weren‘t positive that a crime has been committed.  Even now, they aren‘t certain that there has been a crime. 

But they cannot leave any stone unturned.  It‘s clear that they had talked to these three suspects almost every single day since the day that Natalee disappeared.  And they had looked into their automobile.  But they obviously weren‘t getting the answers they thought these young men had.  And now they‘re applying the pressure.  The pressure is arresting them, and they‘ve been charged with suspicion of murder. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, thanks a lot, NBC‘s Martin Savidge.  We greatly appreciate your report, as always. 

Now, this morning, the attorney general of Aruba was asked point blank if she had any idea whether Natalee Holloway was still alive.  This is what she said. 


CAREN JANSSEN, ARUBAN ATTORNEY GENERAL:  No, we aren‘t close or coming to the point.  At this stage, we can‘t say what we are presuming at this moment.  We have too little details to say.  All options are open.  All scenarios can have happened. 


SCARBOROUGH:  You know, the thing is, they still don‘t know. 

I mean, obviously, they don‘t know what‘s going on.  But the thing that, again, at some of the press conferences held earlier today, what a lot of people didn‘t understand was what I was asking some time ago, why they took so long to pull this judge‘s son back in to investigate, to arrest him, to seize his car, to search his home, to do all those things that, obviously, officers in the United States would expect or at least be expected to do?

After all, there were three men who were clearly identified that night as leaving with Natalee Holloway.  Those three men have been free.  Their car hasn‘t been searched.  And, again, so, now, what, we‘re 11 days after she‘s gone missing, and finally they‘re seizing this judge‘s son‘s car. 

Now, let‘s go to David Kock.  He is the attorney for one of the  Kaploe brothers.  And he is one of the brothers, again, who was taken into custody this morning. 

David, thank you so much for being with us tonight. 


SCARBOROUGH:  What can you tell us about your clients?  Obviously, they were the ones identified in the car going away from the bar that night.  But they claim they‘re innocent.  What did they say happened that night when they were riding around the island with Natalee Holloway? 

KOCK:  Well, look, the details of exactly was being said, I can‘t comment at the moment. 

I must tell you that they‘re amazed that they‘ve been arrested.  As you know, they were first interrogated as a witness.  They gave their total cooperation for this.  And they were not detained.  As you know, later on...


KOCK:  Sorry?

Later on...


SCARBOROUGH:  No, I was just going to say, but they have admitted in the police statements that Natalee got in the car with them that night, right? 

KOCK:  Yes.  They have never said that that‘s not true. 


Now, and your clients, from what we‘ve heard from reports today, and again in the police reports, your clients weren‘t the ones who were said to be intimate with Natalee that night.  But, instead, it was Mr. Van Der Sloot.  Is that correct? 

KOCK:  That is correct.  That‘s been confirmed by the three of them separately in separate statements, from the beginning, also, I must—I must note. 

SCARBOROUGH:  But your clients were not intimate with Ms. Holloway. 

Is that what it says in the statement? 

KOCK:  That‘s what it says in the statement.  And that‘s what they‘ve been saying all along. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Can you help us out again?  Because a lot of us that haven‘t been to Aruba don‘t understand the geography of the island.  Obviously, she left the restaurant and the bar with your client, his brother, and Mr. Van Der Sloot, the judge‘s son.  And then they went to the other side of the island to this lighthouse. 

How far away, as far as mileage goes, was the other side of the island where they took her? 

KOCK:  No, it‘s not really on the other side. 

If you know the island, if you are driving from the restaurant where they were, the nightclub—that was Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s—and you have to go to their hotel, the lighthouse is just a little bit further down.  I would say it‘s about two miles from where I‘m standing right now, made a turnaround and came back in the direction of the hotel.  So, it‘s not really going to another side of the island, like I have also heard from other sources. 

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  That‘s great to know, and that‘s why we‘re asking you.  So, only a couple of miles from where you‘re standing right now. 

Now they claim that, after Mr. Van Der Sloot had been intimate with her, they drove her back to the hotel, dropped her off, and what do they say happened next after she got out of the car? 

KOCK:  After she got out of the car, I understood that she went to the hotel, even that she fell when she trembled from the door.  And then they left her going inside of the hotel.  That‘s the point where the question of the security guards come into place, where they say that a security guard was there when they left her behind. 

And I think, again, that‘s the reason why you also know that, afterwards, the security—they concentrated this investigation on the security guards.  The security guards were detained.  And what I‘m saying about that, it‘s a little incomprehensible for us why now, all of a sudden, they detained these three suspects, is that you have these two—these two groups or these two trails that are so to the contrary of each other, no?  It can be only one of those two groups.

SCARBOROUGH:  But, David, they were the—they were the—but, David, they were the only—your client, his brother, and the judge‘s son were the only three people that were seen with Natalee that night by all the witnesses, correct? 

KOCK:  At the, yes, last—that is correct. 


KOCK:  They have never denied that, no. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Right, right.  So, that‘s probably why they were suspects. 

Well, David, thank you for being with us tonight.  We greatly appreciate it.  Obviously, again, in America, we believe that everybody is innocent until proven guilty.  That‘s what I believe tonight.  And that‘s certainly what we believe about your clients, too.  We‘ll just have to see what happens. 

Now, friends, listen, last night on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, in fact, I was hammering this point home over and over again.  It didn‘t make sense that you arrested two black males who were security guards when nobody saw them that night with Natalee Holloway.  Nobody saw them at all.  And yet, while this frantic search has been going on for the better part of 11 days, they just arrest these two black men.  And the only thing that they‘re accused of doing is trying to pick up on white tourists that go down to Aruba. 

It is absolutely outrageous.  Listen to me here.  It is absolutely outrageous that a judge‘s son from a well-connected family is allowed to roam free for 10, 11 days without being arrested, when everybody saw this young man, again, who is obviously connected to a very powerful family in Aruba, everybody saw him leave with Natalee.  We find out tonight that he was intimate with Natalee.  He brought her back, allegedly, according to reports, and claims he let her off. 

And yet nobody saw his image, saw his car‘s image or saw Natalee‘s image that night on the tape.  It doesn‘t sound—again, it just doesn‘t sound right. 

I want to get more on this story.  Let‘s go ahead and go to Chris Lejuez.  He‘s the attorney for Abraham Jones.  Now, Abraham Jones is one of these two security guards who was taken into custody earlier this week, despite the fact that nobody has come forward claiming that they saw Mr.  Jones with Natalee Holloway. 

Thank you so much for being with us again tonight, Chris. 

I‘ve got to tell you, a lot of things just don‘t add up, why they put your client in jail, while they allow the judge‘s son to roam free for the better part of 11 days.  Can you explain to me why that happened? 

CHRIS LEJUEZ, ATTORNEY FOR ARUBAN SUSPECT:  I cannot explain that part, sir. 

But I can—I‘m very happy that probably also because of the pressure of the press, the prosecutor‘s office has decided to explore new options.  They were so limited in their options.  They were so blindly focused on the first two—the person that they had detained.  It was about time that they had to start opening this investigation a little further, expanding the options that they were looking into. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Chris, nobody saw your client or Mr. Jones with Natalee Holloway.  Yet they take them into custody.  They allow this judge‘s son to roam free on the island for 11 days.  They don‘t seize his car.  They don‘t search his home.  They do anything. 

And I understand today that you were allowed to see two reports, two police statements, from two of the three suspects that were taken into custody.

LEJUEZ:  That‘s correct.

SCARBOROUGH:  But, coincidentally, you didn‘t get to see the judge‘s son‘s statement.  Is that correct? 

LEJUEZ:  That‘s correct, sir. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Why is that? 

LEJUEZ:  I would not like to speculate on that, sir.  I do know that what you are saying is correct. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, Chris, why don‘t you stay with me and let me speculate?  It‘s because this judge‘s son has been getting preferential treatment since the beginning.  And if the police officers had treated him like the suspect he should have been treated like, we may have more clues on where Natalee is tonight. 

We‘ll be right back in a second.  More with the attorney, more on this story, more when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.


SCARBOROUGH:  Coming up on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, I‘m going to be talking to somebody who was with Natalee the night of the disappearance, a friend of Natalee‘s who is still down in Aruba looking for her Birmingham friend. 

That and a whole lot more when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.




MARCIA TWITTY, AUNT OF NATALEE:  Let‘s keep everybody, keep them all 

in custody and let‘s figure out the answers to this.  And let‘s figure out 

the truth.  And let‘s let the innocent ones go and let‘s keep the ones who 

·         who—who did something wrong. 


SCARBOROUGH:  We‘re back with Chris Lejuez.  He‘s the attorney for Abraham Jones, who is still—still being held on suspicions of murder and kidnapping in the case of Natalee Holloway. 

Now, for those of you that haven‘t been following this story closely, Mr. Jones appears, in my opinion, to simply be a man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  There‘s no evidence linking him to Natalee Holloway.  All we‘ve read in America is that they liked talking—those two security guards liked talking to women and picking women up.

Thank you, again, for being with us, Chris. 

I want to ask you this question.  Again, maybe I‘m being played for a sucker, but from the news reports I‘ve read, I haven‘t seen anybody that‘s seen your client with Natalee Holloway.  I haven‘t seen anybody that has any evidence linking your client to Natalee Holloway.  Does your client claim that he ever met Natalee Holloway that night or any other night? 

LEJUEZ:  My client never met Natalee Holloway.  He never knew her.  He never spoke to her.  He only knew about her from what he read in the press. 

And I would like to correct you, sir, on one thing that you just said.  He never picked up any girl at any hotel in Aruba.  He expressly told me that. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  No, I‘m just saying, those are news reports in the United States of America.  And had he tried to do that, which, of course, we don‘t know—and you‘re saying he hasn‘t, so I‘ll take you at your word.  Had he did, that‘s not a crime. 

LEJUEZ:  He told me he never had.



LEJUEZ:  He told me he never had, because I asked him specifically about that question. 


You know, the thing that concerns me, Chris, what concerns me is the fact that we had unnamed sources in Aruba that were saying that to the Associated Press and other people in the United States that may have actually, again, been trying to point the finger to your client. 

Now, let me ask you this question.  Are you surprised that the three gentlemen that were seen picking up Natalee, took her to the island—now we find out that one was intimate with Natalee.  They allegedly came back that night.  Are you surprised that they didn‘t impound their car?  They said—they claim they searched their car.  But they didn‘t impound it and dust it and do things for evidence. 

I mean, is that the way police work is usually done in Aruba?  Do they usually allow 11 days to go by in normal cases like this? 

LEJUEZ:  Not at all.  Not at all. 

That‘s why I‘m happy that they have decided finally to go back to the origin, to go back to the source, to go back to the beginning of this whole thing, to go back to the people who saw Natalee last.  And I‘ve been trying to get them to do that.  But they wouldn‘t listen to me.  But, finally, by going to the interview to get the press to put enough pressure on the public prosecutor‘s office, finally, it paid off.  And now they are doing what they have—should have been doing from the beginning. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, you know, Chris, and you are doing what you need to do.  And I‘ll tell you what.  The thing that concerns me is the fact that this judge‘s son and his two friends had 11 days to clean up the evidence at their home and in their car. 

Chris, thanks a lot for being with us.  We‘re going to be following this.  Good luck with your case.  We greatly appreciate your time in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. 

LEJUEZ:  Thank you. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Now let‘s bring in Tom Parker.  He‘s a former FBI agent. 

Tom, I‘ll tell you what.  It just doesn‘t add up here.  You‘ve got three gentlemen on the scene the night of the disappearance.  I think nine, 10 people I.D.ed them with the missing girl.  We now find out that she was intimate with one of these three, the judge‘s son.  They wait 10 days to impound the car.  They wait 10 days to search his home.  Evidence can be cleaned up in 10, 11 days, can‘t it? 

TOM PARKER, FORMER FBI AGENT:  Oh, sure, Joe, it absolutely can. 

But one thing we have to remember here with speculating as to what the reasons were, we‘re viewing this through the prism of how law enforcement work and how the judicial system works here in the United States.  Aruba is a foreign country.  They operate under a different set of laws.  Now, in most Westernized countries, which Aruba certainly is as a territory of the Netherlands, they operate basically the way we do here in the United States.  But there are variations. 

I don‘t know personally what the threshold is for arrest or for search and seizure in Aruba.  But the big thing that comes out of this 10-day period is that they obviously did not have enough evidence, enough probable cause, back on that initial encounter with these three individuals to be able to arrest them or perhaps even to be able to search them. 

You can‘t just go in, in hardly any country and conduct a search just based on your suspicions. 

SCARBOROUGH:  But, Tom, but, Tom, they had no problem, though, Tom, picking up these two security guards and arresting them on suspicion of kidnapping and murder. 

PARKER:  Absolutely.  And I‘m not criticizing them.  I‘m not questioning why any of these individuals were arrested. 

We obviously don‘t know all of the details of the investigation that the police and the FBI do.  But one thing I can assure you of, at least from the FBI perspective, where I spent most of my career, at the point that they have probable cause, at the point they have evidence, they‘re going to move on getting those suspects into custody, or those persons of interest, as they‘ve been called. 

And the best assessment I can make of this situation is that that‘s exactly what they did.  Now, it may well be that, when they first interviewed these individuals, they needed time to check out their stories, to backtrack on what activities they were involved in at the time of her disappearance or leading up to it.

SCARBOROUGH:  I—yes, but again, Tom, they picked up these two security guards with absolutely no evidence at all, from what we understand.  That‘s what concerns me. 

When we come back, more with you, Tom. 

Also going to be talking to Marjanne Havelaar.  She is the editor of the largest Dutch newspaper.  I am going to talk about—to her—about the family of this Dutch judge‘s son who has been arrested and, obviously, from what we‘re hearing tonight, was intimate with Natalee.  We are also going to be talking Haleigh Uncapher.  She is a friend of Natalee‘s who was with her the night she disappeared and is now helping in the search. 

All that, plus the Jackson case, Tom Cruise, Scientology. 

A lot ahead.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY is just getting started.  Stick around.


SCARBOROUGH:  We‘re going to be right back.

And when we return, we are going to be talking to people on the island of Aruba, also going to be talking to a friend of Natalee‘s who was with her the night that she disappeared and searching for her. 

And, also, we are going to go out to California and get the very latest in the Michael Jackson case.  The circus act continues, except Michael Jackson may be going to jail soon.  That is what a lot of experts are claiming.  We‘ll talk to our experts out in L.A., when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.

But, first, here is the latest news that you and your family need to know. 


SCARBOROUGH:  With the arrest of three more suspects and also the search for Natalee Holloway entering the 11th day and counting, the question remains, what could have happened to this beautiful, intelligent, attractive young girl from Mountain Brook, Alabama? 

With me now to talk about it is Marjanne Havelaar.  She is the editor of “The Amigoe,” which is, from what I understand, Marjanne, the largest Dutch-language newspaper on the island. 

Thank you for being with us tonight. 

Your island is such a safe island.  I know this has to be a shock to everybody down there.  How often do you have tourists from America or any other country end up missing like this? 

MARJANNE HAVELAAR, EDITOR, “THE AMIGOE”:  As far as I can remember, it never happens.  I work as an editor for five years now on this island.  I live here for 15 years.  And something like this, it‘s really the first time. 

SCARBOROUGH:  It just doesn‘t happen. 

Now, let me ask you something.  You know the family of the Dutch teen.  Obviously, they‘re a very well respected family there.  What can you tell us about them tonight? 

HAVELAAR:  Yes.  You‘re right.  It‘s a very respected family.  As we know, the father is a local judge.  The mother is a teacher.  I mean, they have three kids.  They‘ve never been in trouble.  It‘s a normal, decent family, nothing extraordinary about them.  So, this came really as a shock that their son was named as one of the suspects. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  I‘m sure a lot of people are shocked by that. 

Let me ask you something.  Last night, we had an FBI profiler come on this show.  And they said, you know, one of the things that happens, not only in Aruba, but happens—I mean, it happens in Miami.  It happens all across America, all across the world, is, sometimes, you have date rape drugs that are slipped into drinks.  It happens on college campuses.  A lot of speculation that that may have happened in this case. 

Has that ever happened in Aruba before?  Have police or newspapers ever felt the need to issue warnings to tourists because this happens? 

HAVELAAR:  Yes.  It‘s something that happens on Aruba.  It happened a few times last—over the last few years. 

And, sometimes, in our paper, we issue a warning, not only for the tourists, but also for the local teens.  Once in a while, we hear information about this kind of thing.  . 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, thank you for being with us, Marjanne.  Obviously, we are all going to continue to focus on this story, just like you are.  We greatly appreciate you being with us tonight. 

Let‘s go back now to Tom Parker.  He‘s a former FBI agent. 

Tom, you know, a lot of people are talking about possibly Natalee being killed, murdered on the island.  They‘re searching for her.  But there is a possibility, because of Aruba‘s geographic location, that she could have possibly been taken off the island.  Talk about that. 

PARKER:  Well, obviously, anything is possible as to where she has ended up as a result of this situation. 

And it really comes back to, what was the motivation of whoever took her?  If there was a need to conceal her or to get her removed from any opportunity of somebody finding her, then to take her to another remote island would be very, very logical.  This is why a very important part of this investigation, which I can assure you is under way, they will be dissecting from A to Z all of the activities, the background, where they‘ve been, what they‘ve been doing this past weekend as it relates to these five suspects that are now in custody. 


SCARBOROUGH:  I‘m sorry.  I was just going to say, let‘s put that map back up for—that shows how close Aruba is to Venezuela. 

You had the attorney general coming out earlier today talking about—and there‘s the map—talking about how this search has expanded beyond their borders.  Does the FBI—I mean, have you heard of cases before where somebody got kidnapped from an island and taken to the mainland?  And, of course, the speculation is—and it‘s all speculation—that could have been sold into prostitution or slavery.  Does that ever happen? 

PARKER:  Absolutely.  It‘s happening all over the world. 

And, certainly, that‘s one of the possibilities that the investigators down there are looking at.  And it‘s also logical to start looking beyond Aruba, when we are 10 and 11 days into this and no trace of her has been found, at least as far as we know.  You do start expanding your search.  So, I‘m presuming that it was a natural forward movement for them to expand the search.  But I‘m also guessing that they have developed some information which would indicate that this other island, this remote island, is perhaps somehow involved in this. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Tom, thanks a lot for being with us.  We greatly appreciate it. 

PARKER:  My pleasure. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, obviously, I‘ll tell you what.  A lot of people In Mountain Brook, Alabama, very concerned about what‘s going on tonight, concerned about the fact that Natalee, obviously worst-case scenario, that she is on the island and something terrible happened to her there, but also that she may have been taken off the island.  And, again, this investigation now has expanded beyond Aruba. 

Now let‘s bring in Haleigh Uncapher.  Haleigh is a friend that was with Natalee the night that she disappeared.  And, also, she continues with the valiant search for her friend from Mountain Brook, Alabama. 

Haleigh, thanks a lot for being with us tonight. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Talk about the emotions of today, now in the 11th day.  Are people starting to think that this story just may not have a happy ending? 

UNCAPHER:  I think people are still hopeful.  And they‘re trying not to focus on whether it is going to be a happy ending or not.  I think we‘re really just trying to find Natalee and get some closure to this case. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, today, we got a lot of information on the Dutch man.  You spoke last night—Well, I say man.  He‘s 17 years old, the 17-year-old son, a judge‘s son who is a Dutch guy. 

You talked about the fact that they met the night before she disappeared.  But we‘re hearing now that they met in the casino.  Can you set the stage for those of us in the United States that want to know what the hotel was like where you were staying?  There was a casino nearby.  There were bars nearby.  Talk about the casino where they met. 

Well, the casino and lobby and all that is kind of separate from the sleeping quarters or whatever.  But you have to walk from where your room is, across the way, and then there is a bar on your right.  And then, as you keep walking straight, it comes right into the hotel, the main hotel, where the lobby is and the casino and everything is just right there.  And so, the main hotel kind of...

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  And...

UNCAPHER:  Go ahead. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Keep going. 

UNCAPHER:  Oh, I was just going to say, the hotel surrounds the pool and the bar, kind of. 

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  We‘re hearing also obviously that what Natalee did, meeting this young Dutch man, was not out of the ordinary, that, actually, you had a lot of locals coming into the casino, a lot of locals coming into these bars trying to pick up tourists, which, of course, happens in the Caribbean and also in other vacation resorts.  Is that correct? 

UNCAPHER:  Well, yes. 

I mean, locals are everywhere you go, because they‘re just like you, trying to enjoy themselves as—just as much so.  They were—you know, were pretty much wherever we were, not necessarily only where we were.  But everywhere we went, you know, were locals. 


Now, Natalee—we‘re hearing from these reports that Natalee was intimate with this young man.  Had Natalee talked to you, had she talked to anybody else from Mountain Brook High School that was down there with her on this senior trip about this young man that she had obviously met the night before? 

UNCAPHER:  She had never talked to me about it.  I have not talked to any of her friends.  And from what I know of, they didn‘t know.  They only knew him from Sunday night when—at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Oh, OK.  So, they don‘t know the backstory to it, how—what we‘re hearing today, again, from the statements that were released. 

Talk about the search today.  It looks like you‘ve been out in the sun for the better part of the day looking for Natalee.  It‘s been 11 days now.  This island, as we said last night, is no bigger than Topeka, Kansas. 

There are 700 people that have been out searching.  The FBI is out there.  There are divers out there.  There are search dogs out there, still no—searching for Natalee. 

Where did you all go today?  What—what‘s left to search on the island of Aruba?

UNCAPHER:  Well, normally, they‘ve been searching from the lighthouse to the Alta Vista, which is a church which they think that Natalee may be.  And then this area, there is just a lot of brush and just a lot of ground to cover and also little homes that we may think that, you know, people don‘t have cable or—we can‘t imagine people not knowing about this, but we are just trying to go out there just to see if, you know, people haven‘t heard about it. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Can you talk about talk about your friends, fellow people from Mountain Brook?  What are their thoughts tonight? 

UNCAPHER:  I just think we‘re all just really worried now. 

You know, it‘s our 11th day.  And we‘re all just anxious to find out more news.  And, yes, that‘s about—just really worried. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Haleigh.  All right, Haleigh, thanks a lot. 

We appreciate you being with us tonight.

UNCAPHER:  Thank you. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Again, good luck on the search.  Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Natalee‘s friends and, obviously, everybody that‘s searching for this young 18-year-old woman.

Snipped...End of Natalee discussion.

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