Natalee Case Discussion #726 2/7 - 2/8/08

[AVA]

Howdy AVA, and welcome!!

Welcome to all the new monkeys.

Thank you for the welcome...and I will go check out the Shango thread......

[Nut44x4]

Question. How did everybody get the spelling of Daury? Couldn't it be Dorry? Or Dowry? Or Dury? They were going by the name as Joran pronounced it. I don't think Patrick asked him to spell it. Just wondering.

It doesn't really matter. It is a name that Joran just blew out of his ass. He will take to the grave of the person/s who really helped him...that part of his statement to Patrick was the truth. The investigation to 'Daury' is futile.

[SunnyinTX]

Good Morning.....

I am a first time poster and have a question about Aruba's Social Clubs.
Has anyone ever investigated social connections?

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

Thank you for any info......

hi AVA...welcome to Scared Monkeys!! 

[Anna]

Thank Anna.

I wonder why this "rumor" has taken two years to clear up.

 

Janet

Scubajap/Bon Dia kept promoting it would be my guess.  It was never "unclear" to some of us, lol.  Anybody But Joran hard at work?  One of those things that a simple timeline should have cleared on it's own without requiring a statement.

.

[SunnyinTX]

Howdy AVA, and welcome!!

Welcome to all the new monkeys.

Good Morning Snoopy!   My computer keeps hiccupping this morning...Hope this isn't a double post!!

[Tamikosmom]

Emotions Run High, Aruba Is Angry At Van Der Sloot

February 7th 2008, Aruba.

Arubans still feel attacked by the U.S. media.
Many believe the pride of Aruba has been tarnished.

ORANJESTAD-Hundreds of locals expressed their anger on radio shows and via e-mail to newspapers after watching the "confession-on-tape" on Monday evening. Arubans reacted massively against Joran van der Sloot, and that for the first time since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on May 30th, 2005.

For the past 2 years the public on the island gave Joran van der Sloot the benefit of the doubt, in that he was involved in the disappearance of Natalee. There was no blood, no body, and no evidence of a murder. Many on the island believed that Natalee was still alive, and was in hiding somewhere. Others believed that she may have accidentally drowned at sea, after she was left alone by Joran on the beach.

At least 5,000 government employees were granted two days free, to help with the search for Natalee in 2005. Dutch F-16 planes were sent to scan the entire island for a body recently buried underground. Thousands of volunteers helped search for the missing teen without any result. There was a search every day for months. And the government was spending millions in the investigation.

Arubans felt that they were constantly attacked by the U.S. media, and at times by the Holloway family. That did not help with having sympathy for the Holloway family, and it certainly did not help the case. In the contrary Arubans shifted in a defensive mode, and felt that their pride was being attacked by the media. Arubans felt nothing that they did to help find Natalee was appreciated.

The Dutch crime reporter, Peter R. de Vries started to investigate the case at the beginning of 2007. De Vries has spent months studying the investigation reports, and interviewing those involved in the case. Patrick van der Eem –a 34 year old Antillean- approached De Vries in The Netherlands in the middle of 2007, he wanted to help out solving the case.

De Vries hired Van der Eem as an undercover thug that would make Joran comfortable enough to tell exactly what happened that night. Joran told his story on different occasions while Van der Eem was driving, and it was all captured on hidden camera.

Van der Eem is a businessman in Arnhem who loves Aruba, and wanted closure for the parents of Natalee. In addition, he was tired of the bad press Aruba has been getting. With the story of Joran on tape, De Vries added the pieces of the puzzle together and claimed he has solved the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. His program was broadcasted on Monday evening to the Aruban public.


"Joran is a psychopath, he has lied to everyone on the island." said an angry water-sports businesswoman, who did not want her name to be made public. "I feel so sorry for Natalee, and her parents who had to go through years of uncertainty as to what happened to their daughter. Our island will suffer for a long time too, we will bare the consequences of the actions of one man. My colleague of Pennsylvania was told by his family, are you going again to that murder island? A person on CNN also advised tourists that they are better off in Bermuda.''

Management Consultant, Mathilde Robles said that she knew Joran van der Sloot by face. "He seems like a nice guy, and I did not want to pre- judge him. But now after watching the program on Monday, I am certain that he is behind the disappearance of Natalee, he himself has admitted it."

Robles is shocked on Van der Sloot's comment, that he can not believe that this has happened to him. "If the judge does not punish this man, we the Arubans will," said Robles.

Joran van der Sloot said on different occasions that he felt particularly sorry for the Aruban community. The image of Aruba as the safest country in the Caribbean has been tarnished ever since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

According to the government, the case has cost the island tens of millions of dollars. Tourism from the U.S. fell by 9 percent during 2006. Aruba is 70 percent dependent on the U.S. generating market. There are barely arrivals from Alabama, the state of Natalee Holloway. The Governor of Alabama has imposed a travel boycott to Aruba.

Public anger is also directed to the father of Joran, Paul van der Sloot, mainly because Paul has smuggled a cellular phone to his son in prison. Many on the island now believe that the family Van der Sloot is out for the money. Paul van der Sloot said earlier that he would sew the country of Aruba, because he was held as suspect in the disappearance of Natalee. On tape, Joran said he will also sew, and wants to cash in big time for a house in Spain.

Emotions ran so high, there were a few people who expressed that the Van der Sloot family should be deported from Aruba.

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54632

Thanks Klaas

Joran, Paulus, the Kalpoes, the sons of the elite (pimps), those involved in or aware of the coverup or ... the judicial ... may never be held accountable by the Aruban/Dutch Justice System but ... BETH HOLLOWAY HAS BEEN VINDICATED IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION IN ARUBA AND HOLLAND.

 

Janet

[klaasend]

Thursday, Feb 07, 2008 - 02:41 PM Updated: 03:26 PM

By Jennifer Hale

Thursday, Aruban prosecutors are scheduled to meet with Joran van der Sloot in Holland. Van der Sloot has not been arrested - he's meeting with prosecutors voluntarily.

The topic of discussion: his secretly recorded confession. If convicted in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, van der Sloot could face as little as a few months in jail or as much as life in prison, but first it will take a lengthy legal battle to even bring him into court.


According to Dutch and Aruban law, Joran van der Sloot's secretly taped confession by itself isn't strong enough to have him re-arrested, let alone bring him to trial, since he now says he made the story up. But van der Sloot's confession is giving prosecutors some new clues where to look for additional evidence, and Natalee's family has more insight into what may have happened to her.


Van der Sloot's confession is hitting Natalee's family hard. Van der Sloot says he was lying, but Natalee's family says for once - they think he's being honest.

"Oh absolutely - I watched him intently: his mannerisms, his tone of voice. I'm absolutely sure that's the truth., " says Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle and Beth Holloway's brother.

It's not just a gut feeling either. Natalee's father Dave Holloway arranged for the confession to be tested through voice analysis equipment that detects lies. Holloway says the test's result: a truthful, valid statement. Except Holloway believes the story goes on from there.

"A lot of people on tv are afraid to say it, but I'm not: I think there's more to it, " says Dave Holloway.

He suspects van der Sloot slipped Natalee drugs - a common practice in Aruba's night clubs. Holloway says a detective warned him about it the first day he arrived in Aruba.

"He repeatedly told us, and I'll never forget: He says watch your drink around here because drugs are prevalent and somebody may slip something into it," says Holloway.

One of the more common drugs in Aruba: GHB, also known as the Date Rape Drug in America, but in Aruba it's commonly used as a party drug, one you can even order at some bars.

"You can buy a drink and pay a bartender $25, and he'll put it in it, " says Holloway.

In his confession, van der Sloot described Natalee's condition on the beach that night: trembling, that turned into shaking and then nothing...an unconscious state van der Sloot says he couldn't wake Natalee from... symptoms Samford University's Dr. Pam Sims says could describe someone who's been given GHB.

"Generally when they pass out, it looks like a coma. They are not arousable. That is generally caused because they're blood pressure drops so low, " says Dr. Pam Sims, Pharmacy Chair at Samford University.

In his confession, van der Sloot says he checked to see if Natalee was dead before deciding to drop her in the ocean, but Dr. Sims warns that's a call van der Sloot wasn't qualified to make.

"Lay people may not be able to detect pulses that are very faint or breathing that's very shallow or irregular," says Dr. Sims.

If van der Sloot's confession is true - Natalee may have been alive when she was thrown into the ocean.

"He claims he shook her and she didn't arouse- that doesn't mean she's dead, " says Dr. Sims.

"We try not to think about because it's too painful to imagine," says Reynolds.

Dutch media reports claim fifty percent of Holland's population watched the tv report about the secretly recorded tapes. Newspapers are full of stories and opinion columns about the alleged confession. Now the country's Parliament is bitterly debating whether lawmakers should step in and review how the case is being handled.

Aruba's chief prosecutor is fighting to have van der Sloot re-arrested and brought to trial, but so far a Dutch judge says no.

"He put the threshold very, very high because this is the third consecutive time you've asked me for this in two and a half years time. Well, this is serious, but he thought it didn't meet his threshold, " explains Aruba's Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos.

If an arrest happens, this would be the third time Aruba has taken van der Sloot into custody for Natalee's disappearance. Every time the prosecution asks for permission to re-arrest, their burden of proof increases.

According to Aruban law, a suspect's own words can't be used against him and there's no such thing as perjury. Consequently, a judge needs something to back up van der Sloot's confession. However, right now, there are several reasons the judge doubts van der Sloot's confession:

The accomplice van der Sloot says dumped Natalee's body has come forward and says the story is made up. The phone booth van der Sloot says he used to call the accomplice is actually a credit card only phone for tourists that just connects to the United States. Plus, van der Sloot says he abandoned his shoes the night Natalee died in a drain on his walk home, but Aruba doesn't have street-side drains.

The Aruban Prosecutor's Office says investigators are searching for the needed back up evidence. If they can find it, they are considering charging van der Sloot with:

Aiding and Abetting First Degree Murder, which carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment; Injury to Health Causing Death, which carries a sentence of six to nine years; Accidental Death, a sentence of up to nine months; Illegal Disposal of a Corpse, a sentence of up to six months and Not Giving Aid to Someone in Need, which also carries a sentence of up to six months.

If van der Sloot is ever brought to trial and convicted, he would get credit for the time he's already served in jail. Aruba's Prosecutor expects a higher court to answer his appeal to re-arrest van der Sloot by next Tuesday.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2008-02-07-0007.html

[Anna]

Mother Van der Sloot: Joran has no half brother

Family Van der Sloot with left, Anita van der Sloot.  Joran has two younger brothers.

ORANJESTAD – The mother of Joran van der Sloot, Anita, wants to clear up the rumours that Joran has a half brother; he does not; this half brother does not exist.  She told the Amigoe this yesterday.  

Amigoe reported yesterday that the Dutch current affairs column and the local radio transmitter Cool FM assumed that a certain Lorenzo van R. was the person that helped murder-suspect Joran dispose of Natalee Holloway’s body with a boat.  Daury Rodriguez’s name was mentioned earlier as the ‘boatman’, but Rodriguez denied this.  Joran van der Sloot said in the talked-about footage of Peter R. de Vries that he was helped by ‘Daury’.

Also in the early stages of the investigation, family Van der Sloot has rebutted this rumour.  “Justice has investigated it at that time and could ascertain that nothing tallies.  But the media is digging into it again.  How are Joran’s brothers going to understand this now?  They asked me if what is in the Amigoe is true; that they have a half brother.  This is on top of everything that has already happened.”

Also Lorenzo’s family had already told a newspaper in the past that this story about half brother is not true.  The two families had contact with each other right after family Van der Sloot moved to Aruba in 1990.  “They had an auto-repair shop and we have taken our car to them a few times.  Lorenzo was five or six years old at that time and Joran two-and-a-half.”

‘Joran-shows’

The Netherlands as well as the United States are keeping a close track of all the latest developments in the Holloway-case.  The Netherlands that was the first to broadcast Peter R. de Vries’ footage last Sunday, noted a viewing record of seven million people.  ABC has broadcast the footage on Monday and at least 12 million Americans watched it, which is 11 percent of the TV-viewers at that moment.

De Vries has meanwhile left for the US to appear in several prominent talk shows.  Aruban televiewers could watch the footage on ABC via cable for the first time on Monday.  They have already seen and heard fragments via local radio- and TV-transmitters and on internet earlier. 

Patrick van der Eem, the man that encouraged a confession from Joran van der Sloot on a hidden camera, seems to become ‘the big hero’ in the Netherlands and in the US, confirmed the office of Peter R. de Vries.  The telephone hasn’t stopped ringing and several bouquets were delivered ‘out of appreciation’.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_39496.php

Oh Anna, I am so glad you cleared up the half-brother status between Lorenzo and Paulus.  It was good to learn the Sloots arrived in 1990.  That has helped us in the Shango thread with some thing else we have been working on.  So Lorenzo isn't Joran's half-brother....but Joran has known him since he was a young child.  If Paulus and Lorenzo's father were good friends, I wonder if Joran played with Lorenzo as a child and on even into his teen years.  Regardless, Lorenzo still remains where he has been placed by so many from Aruba...a person of interest due to his nefarious dealings with drugs and his known rave parties.  Thanks again.

This says the opposite of that.  No where does it say Joran even laid eyes on Lorenzo nor that they were good friends.  They only used their garage services.  I am not good friends with my auto mechanic nor do my children know his children or even if he has any.

Where does it say anything about friends, playing, etc?  Not many six year olds want to play with a two year old that I have ever encountered.

.

[jackb]

Hi everyone!  Been in and out trying to catch up.    Hope it's not to  late   to say this:
The T-shirt is beautiful and such a great idea!  One thing though, Beth didn't like  "the water"; couldn't look at  it,   so I wonder if  putting the water  behind her  picture  is such a   good  idea?   Just a  thought.

God  bless all of you, and prayers for the Persistance and crew. 

Good morning.  Welcome to the new monkeys. 

I am not crazy about the water in the background either.  (Too busy)  I like the beautiful picture of Natalee and the words in fuschia. Simple and elegant.   I'm also concerned the water wouldn't reproduce well enough......

JUST A SUGGESTION:  How about a picture of the persistence, Dave, Beth, Robin and Jug sort of transparent in the sky just above (Persistence being a bit more opaque), then a picture of NH in her cameo shot looking so beautiful with her hair up, etc, somewhat more opaque, and the words in gold:  We Stand WithThe Girl. I could make this, but thought you all would have more time since you are working on it anyway.        Jack Blue

[Frank]

Will someone translate Jossy's comments?

I have always respected Jossy, however I find him strangely subdued, especially now. Is it because of the shock of hearing Joran speak this way?

There is no loyalty however, and the fact that he does not address the cover up worries me.

He doesn't know? It's hard to believe Jossy doesn't know exactly what happened here, yet the fact remains he supports van der straaten and Janssen, why?

His timidity now is disturbing to me.

[cubbeegirl]

If Anita doesn't snap to, and see just how at risk Joran is, as well as society from his behavior, her other children should be taken from her. She is behaving as if she is an unfit Mom interested in only herslef and not the welfare of her child.

ANITA, WATCH THE TAPE AND SEE JUST HOW SICK JORAN IS, WHAT YOUR PATH HAS BROUGHT HIM, AND RE-EXAMINE YOUR DIRECTION TO HIM. DO YOU HEAR HIS THOUGHTS? THIS IS YOUR OTHER 2 CHILDREN'S ROLE MODELS.

Very scary to think that they could be raising two more sons who could well turn out as Joran has.....
What are they telling the two other boys by bailing Joran out and covering up for his lying ass all the time.....
They are at a very real risk of turning out to be just as evil as Joran... JMO

[SunnyinTX]

Thursday, Feb 07, 2008 - 02:41 PM Updated: 03:26 PM

By Jennifer Hale

Thursday, Aruban prosecutors are scheduled to meet with Joran van der Sloot in Holland. Van der Sloot has not been arrested - he's meeting with prosecutors voluntarily.

The topic of discussion: his secretly recorded confession. If convicted in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, van der Sloot could face as little as a few months in jail or as much as life in prison, but first it will take a lengthy legal battle to even bring him into court.


According to Dutch and Aruban law, Joran van der Sloot's secretly taped confession by itself isn't strong enough to have him re-arrested, let alone bring him to trial, since he now says he made the story up. But van der Sloot's confession is giving prosecutors some new clues where to look for additional evidence, and Natalee's family has more insight into what may have happened to her.


Van der Sloot's confession is hitting Natalee's family hard. Van der Sloot says he was lying, but Natalee's family says for once - they think he's being honest.

"Oh absolutely - I watched him intently: his mannerisms, his tone of voice. I'm absolutely sure that's the truth., " says Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle and Beth Holloway's brother.

It's not just a gut feeling either. Natalee's father Dave Holloway arranged for the confession to be tested through voice analysis equipment that detects lies. Holloway says the test's result: a truthful, valid statement. Except Holloway believes the story goes on from there.

"A lot of people on tv are afraid to say it, but I'm not: I think there's more to it, " says Dave Holloway.

He suspects van der Sloot slipped Natalee drugs - a common practice in Aruba's night clubs. Holloway says a detective warned him about it the first day he arrived in Aruba.

"He repeatedly told us, and I'll never forget: He says watch your drink around here because drugs are prevalent and somebody may slip something into it," says Holloway.

One of the more common drugs in Aruba: GHB, also known as the Date Rape Drug in America, but in Aruba it's commonly used as a party drug, one you can even order at some bars.

"You can buy a drink and pay a bartender $25, and he'll put it in it, " says Holloway.

In his confession, van der Sloot described Natalee's condition on the beach that night: trembling, that turned into shaking and then nothing...an unconscious state van der Sloot says he couldn't wake Natalee from... symptoms Samford University's Dr. Pam Sims says could describe someone who's been given GHB.

"Generally when they pass out, it looks like a coma. They are not arousable. That is generally caused because they're blood pressure drops so low, " says Dr. Pam Sims, Pharmacy Chair at Samford University.

In his confession, van der Sloot says he checked to see if Natalee was dead before deciding to drop her in the ocean, but Dr. Sims warns that's a call van der Sloot wasn't qualified to make.

"Lay people may not be able to detect pulses that are very faint or breathing that's very shallow or irregular," says Dr. Sims.

If van der Sloot's confession is true - Natalee may have been alive when she was thrown into the ocean.

"He claims he shook her and she didn't arouse- that doesn't mean she's dead, " says Dr. Sims.

"We try not to think about because it's too painful to imagine," says Reynolds.

Dutch media reports claim fifty percent of Holland's population watched the tv report about the secretly recorded tapes. Newspapers are full of stories and opinion columns about the alleged confession. Now the country's Parliament is bitterly debating whether lawmakers should step in and review how the case is being handled.

Aruba's chief prosecutor is fighting to have van der Sloot re-arrested and brought to trial, but so far a Dutch judge says no.

"He put the threshold very, very high because this is the third consecutive time you've asked me for this in two and a half years time. Well, this is serious, but he thought it didn't meet his threshold, " explains Aruba's Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos.

If an arrest happens, this would be the third time Aruba has taken van der Sloot into custody for Natalee's disappearance. Every time the prosecution asks for permission to re-arrest, their burden of proof increases.

According to Aruban law, a suspect's own words can't be used against him and there's no such thing as perjury. Consequently, a judge needs something to back up van der Sloot's confession. However, right now, there are several reasons the judge doubts van der Sloot's confession:

The accomplice van der Sloot says dumped Natalee's body has come forward and says the story is made up. The phone booth van der Sloot says he used to call the accomplice is actually a credit card only phone for tourists that just connects to the United States. Plus, van der Sloot says he abandoned his shoes the night Natalee died in a drain on his walk home, but Aruba doesn't have street-side drains.

The Aruban Prosecutor's Office says investigators are searching for the needed back up evidence. If they can find it, they are considering charging van der Sloot with:

Aiding and Abetting First Degree Murder, which carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment; Injury to Health Causing Death, which carries a sentence of six to nine years; Accidental Death, a sentence of up to nine months; Illegal Disposal of a Corpse, a sentence of up to six months and Not Giving Aid to Someone in Need, which also carries a sentence of up to six months.

If van der Sloot is ever brought to trial and convicted, he would get credit for the time he's already served in jail. Aruba's Prosecutor expects a higher court to answer his appeal to re-arrest van der Sloot by next Tuesday.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2008-02-07-0007.html

If I ever decide to commit a serious crime I think I'll go to aruba to do it....at least I know I won't spend much time in jail

[Tamikosmom]

Off to Whister, BC for a day of snow boarding ... skiiing for me.  My husband family is entertaining relatives from Japan.  I think I am getting too old for this activity.  Hubby claims it keeps us young. Whatever!

If I come home with no broken bones ... I will be back in the cage tomorrow ... scanning the forum for Natalee Holloway updates.

Have a good day Monkeys

Janet

[klaasend]

Getagrip has translated some more Diario articles - Thanks Getagrip!

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/

2.08.2008

According to Jug Twitty, there was a justice cover-up in the disappearance
DIARIO Aruba
02/08/2008


ORANJESTAD(AAN): The stepfather of Natalee Holloway, Jug Twitty, said recently that Aruban police, a few days after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, knew what happened in the case but that they covered it up.

Twitty said this after he saw the recording of the Peter R. de Vries show. Natalee’s stepfather, who some time ago is divorced from Beth, said to Fox News that two weeks after the disappearance of Natalee, he was asked various strange question from Aruban police agents.

They asked his things like: “did she suffer from epilepsy, or did she have any allergies?” “I was angry about these questions”.

“But now I am thinking, they knew at the time what had happened.” He spoke of a so-called cover-up.

[klaasend]

Off to Whister, BC for a day of snow boarding ... skiiing for me.  My husband family is entertaining relatives from Japan.  I think I am getting too old for this activity.  Hubby claims it keeps us young. Whatever!

If I come home with no broken bones ... I will be back in the cage tomorrow ... scanning the forum for Natalee Holloway updates.

Have a good day Monkeys

Janet

Janet - have a great time!

[cubbeegirl]

Question. How did everybody get the spelling of Daury? Couldn't it be Dorry? Or Dowry? Or Dury? They were going by the name as Joran pronounced it. I don't think Patrick asked him to spell it. Just wondering.

I agree... I also feel and have felt since the first viewing of the Peter Devries show that when Joran said that he was starting to feel a little paranoid about the whole thing... his whole demeanor changed in my opinion ....also he is too certain that things he said will not add up and it is my firm belief that this is one of them.... he put that in there to CYA in case he had already said too much... JMO

It doesn't really matter. It is a name that Joran just blew out of his ass. He will take to the grave of the person/s who really helped him...that part of his statement to Patrick was the truth. The investigation to 'Daury' is futile.

[SunnyinTX]

 

Waving to our friend Beachy!!!

[cubbeegirl]

Howdy AVA, and welcome!!

Welcome to all the new monkeys.

Thank you for the welcome...and I will go check out the Shango thread......

Welcome to the cage Ava...

[SunnyinTX]

Off to Whister, BC for a day of snow boarding ... skiiing for me.  My husband family is entertaining relatives from Japan.  I think I am getting too old for this activity.  Hubby claims it keeps us young. Whatever!

If I come home with no broken bones ... I will be back in the cage tomorrow ... scanning the forum for Natalee Holloway updates.

Have a good day Monkeys

Janet

Janet - have a great time!

ditto from me and please come back with nothing broken!!

[Bladerunner]

Now the country's Parliament is bitterly debating whether lawmakers should step in and review how the case is being handled.

WTF, debating what??


According to Aruban law, a suspect's own words can't be used against him and there's no such thing as perjury.

WTF??