Natalee Case Discussion #726 2/7 - 2/8/08

[Ono]

What still boggles the mind, rightly angers God-fearing people, and taxes the conscience, is the apparent enjoyment on the part of some in Aruba, to persecute Natalee, her family, her friends & supporters, AND slam her country............but, oh - how they crave [ and feel entitled to ] her country's money.  Are right-minded people in the minority on that island?

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning.....

I am a first time poster and have a question about Aruba's Social Clubs.
Has anyone ever investigated social connections?

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

Thank you for any info......

Hi AVA...Welcome ....did that link open for you? I haven't been able to open any Aruba Lions for a couple of weeks. One of our posters did manage to retrieve a cached copy of that one though.

The cached version was posted IIRC on a Monday 2 or 3 weeks back after it was discussed on a Saturday. I think it is really weird that a group like the Lions would take down their sites. The one for this year is gone too!

Link to the last Shango page...


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.new#lastPost

My post above LOL

Yes....it is very interesting all the connections including the Freemansons, Lions, Jaycess, and Rotary Club......such a small island and no one knows anything........thank all of you for such a warm welcome......

[Ono]

Jerry:

Quote:  Your welcome Ono and I thought ya knew it but just wanted others to be aware of it too  <g>  Have a good one friend .   Jerry

Thanks, and same to ya!  I figured you knew that I knew...LOL!

[Dayhiker]

Getagrip has translated some more Diario articles - Thanks Getagrip!

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/

2.08.2008

According to Jug Twitty, there was a justice cover-up in the disappearance
DIARIO Aruba
02/08/2008


ORANJESTAD(AAN): The stepfather of Natalee Holloway, Jug Twitty, said recently that Aruban police, a few days after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, knew what happened in the case but that they covered it up.

Twitty said this after he saw the recording of the Peter R. de Vries show. Natalee’s stepfather, who some time ago is divorced from Beth, said to Fox News that two weeks after the disappearance of Natalee, he was asked various strange question from Aruban police agents.

They asked his things like: “did she suffer from epilepsy, or did she have any allergies?” “I was angry about these questions”.

“But now I am thinking, they knew at the time what had happened.” He spoke of a so-called cover-up.

Thanks Jossy and Getagrip, and Klaas for posting it! At least the Arubans can read about it even if they can't get much television coverage.

Joran's mouth, the gift that keeps on giving!

[Dayhiker]

They're getting it, they're getting it!!!!!

 

[Frank]

Once again, Jossy watering down the corruption angle. He left out the part that Jug said they asked him if he had sex with Natalee, why?

They put it all on Jug.

Not happy with Jossy at the moment. If you make an excuse that Jossy is being threatened, what kind of excuse is that.

My God, Beth makes ALL these guys look like cowards.

At the very moment, NOW, when the case could be blown open, Jossy is weak.

[Destiny]

Destiny...I would like to help...please email me and tell me how I can help you!!  Klaas has my email addy[/b]

Sunny...that is so very Sweet of YOU!  I have some members of the group flying/driving in early to help with prep...my place is way up in the mountains...already have some locals doing a hayride for the kids...a visit to a Hanovarian horse breeding farm...and a campout..weather permitting...lined up...I'm providing all the food...and everyone who comes will be pitching in to help cook..I think we'll have a really good time

If you want to come you are more than welcome...and Thank You again for your offer to help...just pray for good weather for us..Dest

[Magnolia]

In December when the Kalpoes and Joran were released, I thought that
Mos declared the case COLD and did not close it and said that the three
still remained the primary persons of interest.
I keep hearing that the case is closed on the talk shows. Is that correct?

[Tylergal]

Thursday, Feb 07, 2008 - 02:41 PM Updated: 03:26 PM

By Jennifer Hale

Thursday, Aruban prosecutors are scheduled to meet with Joran van der Sloot in Holland. Van der Sloot has not been arrested - he's meeting with prosecutors voluntarily.

The topic of discussion: his secretly recorded confession. If convicted in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, van der Sloot could face as little as a few months in jail or as much as life in prison, but first it will take a lengthy legal battle to even bring him into court.


According to Dutch and Aruban law, Joran van der Sloot's secretly taped confession by itself isn't strong enough to have him re-arrested, let alone bring him to trial, since he now says he made the story up. But van der Sloot's confession is giving prosecutors some new clues where to look for additional evidence, and Natalee's family has more insight into what may have happened to her.


Van der Sloot's confession is hitting Natalee's family hard. Van der Sloot says he was lying, but Natalee's family says for once - they think he's being honest.

"Oh absolutely - I watched him intently: his mannerisms, his tone of voice. I'm absolutely sure that's the truth., " says Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle and Beth Holloway's brother.

It's not just a gut feeling either. Natalee's father Dave Holloway arranged for the confession to be tested through voice analysis equipment that detects lies. Holloway says the test's result: a truthful, valid statement. Except Holloway believes the story goes on from there.

"A lot of people on tv are afraid to say it, but I'm not: I think there's more to it, " says Dave Holloway.

He suspects van der Sloot slipped Natalee drugs - a common practice in Aruba's night clubs. Holloway says a detective warned him about it the first day he arrived in Aruba.

"He repeatedly told us, and I'll never forget: He says watch your drink around here because drugs are prevalent and somebody may slip something into it," says Holloway.

One of the more common drugs in Aruba: GHB, also known as the Date Rape Drug in America, but in Aruba it's commonly used as a party drug, one you can even order at some bars.

"You can buy a drink and pay a bartender $25, and he'll put it in it, " says Holloway.

In his confession, van der Sloot described Natalee's condition on the beach that night: trembling, that turned into shaking and then nothing...an unconscious state van der Sloot says he couldn't wake Natalee from... symptoms Samford University's Dr. Pam Sims says could describe someone who's been given GHB.

"Generally when they pass out, it looks like a coma. They are not arousable. That is generally caused because they're blood pressure drops so low, " says Dr. Pam Sims, Pharmacy Chair at Samford University.

In his confession, van der Sloot says he checked to see if Natalee was dead before deciding to drop her in the ocean, but Dr. Sims warns that's a call van der Sloot wasn't qualified to make.

"Lay people may not be able to detect pulses that are very faint or breathing that's very shallow or irregular," says Dr. Sims.

If van der Sloot's confession is true - Natalee may have been alive when she was thrown into the ocean.

"He claims he shook her and she didn't arouse- that doesn't mean she's dead, " says Dr. Sims.

"We try not to think about because it's too painful to imagine," says Reynolds.

Dutch media reports claim fifty percent of Holland's population watched the tv report about the secretly recorded tapes. Newspapers are full of stories and opinion columns about the alleged confession. Now the country's Parliament is bitterly debating whether lawmakers should step in and review how the case is being handled.

Aruba's chief prosecutor is fighting to have van der Sloot re-arrested and brought to trial, but so far a Dutch judge says no.

"He put the threshold very, very high because this is the third consecutive time you've asked me for this in two and a half years time. Well, this is serious, but he thought it didn't meet his threshold, " explains Aruba's Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos.

If an arrest happens, this would be the third time Aruba has taken van der Sloot into custody for Natalee's disappearance. Every time the prosecution asks for permission to re-arrest, their burden of proof increases.

According to Aruban law, a suspect's own words can't be used against him and there's no such thing as perjury. Consequently, a judge needs something to back up van der Sloot's confession. However, right now, there are several reasons the judge doubts van der Sloot's confession:

The accomplice van der Sloot says dumped Natalee's body has come forward and says the story is made up. The phone booth van der Sloot says he used to call the accomplice is actually a credit card only phone for tourists that just connects to the United States. Plus, van der Sloot says he abandoned his shoes the night Natalee died in a drain on his walk home, but Aruba doesn't have street-side drains.

The Aruban Prosecutor's Office says investigators are searching for the needed back up evidence. If they can find it, they are considering charging van der Sloot with:

Aiding and Abetting First Degree Murder, which carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment; Injury to Health Causing Death, which carries a sentence of six to nine years; Accidental Death, a sentence of up to nine months; Illegal Disposal of a Corpse, a sentence of up to six months and Not Giving Aid to Someone in Need, which also carries a sentence of up to six months.

If van der Sloot is ever brought to trial and convicted, he would get credit for the time he's already served in jail. Aruba's Prosecutor expects a higher court to answer his appeal to re-arrest van der Sloot by next Tuesday.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2008-02-07-0007.html

That is the report that was on Birmingham TV last night, however the written version
omits some things said on the news.  The quote from Natalee's Dr. was left out as
was the Julia Renfro interview by phone.

Oh, Magnolia, what did that odious character, Renfro, say?  I know you probably do not recall verbatim, but just the gist.....did she ever expand on why she told the lie about the body being at the court house? 

[Peaches]

If Anita doesn't snap to, and see just how at risk Joran is, as well as society from his behavior, her other children should be taken from her. She is behaving as if she is an unfit Mom interested in only herslef and not the welfare of her child.

ANITA, WATCH THE TAPE AND SEE JUST HOW SICK JORAN IS, WHAT YOUR PATH HAS BROUGHT HIM, AND RE-EXAMINE YOUR DIRECTION TO HIM. DO YOU HEAR HIS THOUGHTS? THIS IS YOUR OTHER 2 CHILDREN'S ROLE MODELS.

Very scary to think that they could be raising two more sons who could well turn out as Joran has.....
What are they telling the two other boys by bailing Joran out and covering up for his lying ass all the time.....
They are at a very real risk of turning out to be just as evil as Joran... JMO

And anyone who thinks the younger two are unaffected needs to pay closer attention.  These boys are learning first hand that "big people lie" and it's no big deal.  Well, how's that working for ya, Anita?   You've got one pariah on your hands already, are you trying for two more?   Teaching your sons that it is okay to be disrespectful to women and to be dishonest to anybody and everybody is pretty sad.  Pretty disgusting.

[Magnolia]

Tyler,
The Ho said that Joran may have been convicted on television, but that did not mean that he could be convicted in an Aruban court of Law:  The confession did not matter
and they would have to have additional proof in order to rearrest him.  She said that
he could not have used the phone outside the Marriott because it was only for international calling and could only be accessed by credit card.  She said that
he could not have put his shoes in a storm drain because Aruba doesn't have storm
drains.  He cannot be charged with his previous lies because there is no such thing
as perjury in Aruba.  She could "assure you" of first one thing and then the other.
Bunch of bull. IMO

No island has storm drains because when the tide comes in the drains would fill with water, but we have seen things that could be referred to as a drain.

[jackb]

Once again, Jossy watering down the corruption angle. He left out the part that Jug said they asked him if he had sex with Natalee, why?

They put it all on Jug.

Not happy with Jossy at the moment. If you make an excuse that Jossy is being threatened, what kind of excuse is that.

My God, Beth makes ALL these guys look like cowards.

At the very moment, NOW, when the case could be blown open, Jossy is weak.

Because numnuts, it is embarrassing.  Jossey IS NOT weak.  Jossey knows what he is doing. Some people have more sense than to repeat nasty, slanderous things that just put ideas in weaker minds and are so vile they are best not even repeated.   Jack Blue

[private eye]

What makes us think Anita would know if Paulus had an affair with Lorenzo's mother, that resulted in a child. That is not something Paulus would tell her. They are both Dutch Nationals. I haven't a clue if he is or isn't, but there is a rumor on the island, and I don't think Anita's declaration is worth 2 cents. The affair could have happened before the VDS moved to Aruba, and in fact that could be why they moved to Aruba. For that matter, that could be a reason why the Dad committed suicide. However, it is simply a rumor, but a popular rumor on the island, one that we didn't invent, but as a result of it being a rumor on th eisland, we can't dismiss it. It is a strange rumor to have started if they are only very casually known to each other.

[caesu]

Now the country's Parliament is bitterly debating whether lawmakers should step in and review how the case is being handled.

WTF, debating what??


According to Aruban law, a suspect's own words can't be used against him and there's no such thing as perjury.

WTF??

Now, now Bladerunner.... you know we just don't understand their laws and their system....

i realize this is difficult to understand.

but this has to do with the debate how far a citizen (or journalist) can go in taking confessions (from Joran in this case).
of course interrogations are originally the job of the law enforcement.
and then they have to issue the miranda warning first (everything you say can be used against you etc.)

patrick of course didn't do that.

i think the debate is about this.

but today Harm Brouwer, the highest official of the OM here in the Netherlands praised Peter R. de Vries.
this is a very important statement of him i think.
but he specifically praised his journalism work to imply distinction between a journalist and a police interrogator.

[Frank]

Jossy does know what he's doing. He promised to name names, he didn't. He has promised to look into things, and he doesn't.

He appears to be pulling back, why?

Nobody is expecting him to say that Natalee was killed at the van der sloots, but he has been very soft on Paulus van der sloot, the guy arrested for premeditated murder.

He called van der straaten a "good man." His paper awarded Janssen with "woman of the year" or something like that.

[MuffyBee]

Since when are we to believe what Anita says?

Half brother or not, I'm still not ready to completely dismiss him.

Nut, I was thinking the same thoughts as you posted about Anita.  Why should we believe her?  Besides, IF Lorenzo really is Joran's half brother, she would be the last to want to admit that imo.   To admit that her husband Paulus was unfaithful?!  Never. Think about how many times Anita called Paulus a judge.  And he wasn't really a judge.  This woman is very image concious.   Anita's denial is no real proof, imo.  How many times has Anita said what a good boy Joran is.  No, there would be no admitting something like Lorenzo being Paulus natural son, imo.

Klaas, I'm not ready to completely dismiss Lorenzo either.  I tend to believe where there's smoke, there's fire...

[ala_gunslinger]

Jossy does know what he's doing. He promised to name names, he didn't. He has promised to look into things, and he doesn't.

He appears to be pulling back, why?

Nobody is expecting him to say that Natalee was killed at the van der sloots, but he has been very soft on Paulus van der sloot, the guy arrested for premeditated murder.

He called van der straaten a "good man." His paper awarded Janssen with "woman of the year" or something like that.

Keep your allies close, and your enemy closer?

[MumInOhio]

What makes us think Anita would know if Paulus had an affair with Lorenzo's mother, that resulted in a child. That is not something Paulus would tell her. They are both Dutch Nationals. I haven't a clue if he is or isn't, but there is a rumor on the island, and I don't think Anita's declaration is worth 2 cents. The affair could have happened before the VDS moved to Aruba, and in fact that could be why they moved to Aruba. For that matter, that could be a reason why the Dad committed suicide. However, it is simply a rumor, but a popular rumor on the island, one that we didn't invent, but as a result of it being a rumor on th eisland, we can't dismiss it. It is a strange rumor to have started if they are only very casually known to each other.

I am wondering if Anita is not protesting too loudly....just a thought....I must have missed all the other interviews she has done since Sunday.

[ala_gunslinger]

Yeah I know, i was raised in a barn...

Good morning all ya'll!

[Tylergal]

Tyler,
The Ho said that Joran may have been convicted on television, but that did not mean that he could be convicted in an Aruban court of Law:  The confession did not matter
and they would have to have additional proof in order to rearrest him.  She said that
he could not have used the phone outside the Marriott because it was only for international calling and could only be accessed by credit card.  She said that
he could not have put his shoes in a storm drain because Aruba doesn't have storm
drains.  He cannot be charged with his previous lies because there is no such thing
as perjury in Aruba.  She could "assure you" of first one thing and then the other.
Bunch of bull. IMO

No island has storm drains because when the tide comes in the drains would fill with water, but we have seen things that could be referred to as a drain.

Thank you, Magnolia.  Of course we know that she is going to defend Joran.  He is probably a "national" hero in her eyes.  What an oaf.