Natalee Case Discussion #727 2/8 - 2/10/08

[nonesuche]

PE- yes Hurricane Beth and she's had a mission that will cascade far beyond her personal loss. Betico, that is a very interesting coincidence, isn't it?

Just looking at that horrible Rudy Croes is a nightmare, it's a miracle he can get any women or man to step into bed with him. blech !!!

[San]

does van der straaten own a boat - anyone know?

Sorry.  Nice time for Janet to be offing skiing.  She's the BOMB at references. 

San, at some point, could you have CBB email me to my AOL addy please?  TY

Peaches, I don't have your email address.  I used to have a lot but I don't have them anymore.  If you still have mine email me and I will forward the message to CBB via PM on the forum.

Hopefully Klaas will see the message also and she will send your message to CBB.

[Ono]

OK Here's a question for Everyone....What Do You think is the signifigance of Joran talking to Patrick in the tapes about Natalee coming from a rich family and knowing Bush....He said something like.....I didn't know the B***H was from a rich family....does He mean that it would have been better if She was poor (so to speak) because no one would have cared or what....I just thought it was weird that He even said anything about Her social status...any thoughts anyone....

He wouldn't have picked her to target, imo.  He/they probably had visions of all Alabamians living in one room shacks with no electricity and no indoor plumbing, etc. and being REAL dumb.

[San]

First, can someone repost that clip so we can listen again at 1:32 on the clip. You will hear JVDS say "there was noone there!" and Patrick respond, "OfCourse noone ws there! It's night, Joran!" Then JVDS says he I'm talking to her, talking to her, nothing......so then I TAKE HER". Then Patrick speaks over him and the moment is gone.
 

I listened over and over and wondered, why did the translator say that. What was the exact wording in Dutch? Did he "take" her euphemistically speaking, or take her "somewhere".....? Anybody?

I doubt this is a smoking gun, I was just curious.

This is the segment in Dutch (at 5:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSst4q1-yjY

"Ze zegt niks, ze zegt niks, ze zegt niks, dus ik pak haar op..."

and then Patrick interupts him (wish he hadn't done that that often)

My translation would be

"She doesn't say a thing, so I pick her up..."

The way he says it would suggest to me that he either put her in an upright position, or that he actually picked her up, perhaps to move her like he said, into the bushes. Difficult to tell.

again, no this is not it either but you guys are GREAT to be looking......... I'm still going thru the archives......

teacat try this link.  Carpe has captured most them and posted links on this thread.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9.msg341474#msg341474

[nonesuche]

Private Eye, when I watched Beth on Greta this week I found myself stating this one thing to Greta on that TV screen, over and over again. I think RU needs to read it too, we do need to all remember Beth having the courage to go confront Deepak in the Internet Cafe and offer him the opportunity to both tell the truth and gain protection in front of the eyes of the world.

He refused. What courage she's demonstrated throughout.

World, you need to know Beth Twitty is very smart and committed and courageous

BETH WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG. SHE WAS RIGHT. DON'T YOU DARE FORGET THAT

[private eye]

OK Here's a question for Everyone....What Do You think is the signifigance of Joran talking to Patrick in the tapes about Natalee coming from a rich family and knowing Bush....He said something like.....I didn't know the B***H was from a rich family....does He mean that it would have been better if She was poor (so to speak) because no one would have cared or what....I just thought it was weird that He even said anything about Her social status...any thoughts anyone....

I also think it has to do with the way Joran thinks. Like what he said when Natalee got convulsions and seemingly died (his account) he says "I almost started to cry, like why does it has to happen to me!"

It's all about him. He feels sorry for himself.

I think he looks at Beth and the family's persistence in the same light. As his bad luck.

She came from a wealthy family, the parents where well connected, its just his bad luck. He is the one he feels sorry for (and others should feel sorry for in his opinion).

He is totaly egocentric or narcissistic. Everything he says has to be interpreted in that way.

--

Hi people. I've been reading hear since the recent breakthrough. When I started looking for more information the Scared Monkeys just kept popping up on my google searches. 

I registered so I could leave a comment now and then. Like I just did.

Great work you've been doing here! [thumbs-up!]

WELCOME NORTHERNSTAR! Glad to have you here!

What Joran never expected was to meet a Mother who has simply kicked his ass for almost 3 years, 24 hours day, from every direction he turned. And he never knew that Beth had a gang of her own, The Band of Scared Monkeys, and another one, the Righteous Of the World, whom she would unleash on his young ass biting and scratching him merciless, until he broke down in front of the world and tells the truth.

Today kids aren't taught by the media that the might of the right is greater than the forces of evil, so this has been a learning experience for Joran. The strength of Beth comes not from money, social standing, or political pressure, it comes from the hand of the Lord, the power of the righteous, and as usual, those forces are impossible to resist.

[San]

Tyler I agree, to sexually violate Natalee and throw her into the ocean, the son of a then-judge, there is no excuse for.

Bottom line, educated people do not act like savages. This was a savage murder, something one sees happen in impoverished countries where human life has little value, not in the free world.

Natalee wasn't part of some drug ring, or caught up in illegal activities that might have placed her in the wrong place at the wrong time. She was in a very public and well advertised tourist bar and eatery.

This was savages that are sick and depraved people, nothing more and nothing less. Now at least when they step out of Aruba and that means that entire disgusting and depraved VDS family they are now PARIAHS.

That is at is should be, one can only hope a criminal decides to torment them as they did Natalee and her family.

an eye for an eye....

I agree Nonesuche.

[BUCKSHOT]

warning:complete ramblings about to occur:brainstorming out loud:comments very welcome

at cnc: dk/sk-derivation of administered drugat bar(lorenzo, ultimate supplier-may or may not be true, would not imply him in crime,just could be possible)

dk leads nh to car from cnc. jvds walking closeby en route to car.

according to possible routes driven, may or may not have dropped sk off at his house. sk and jvds could have dropped off dk.

definite stop at or near jvds house. pick up something (condoms, drugs-coke,weed, vehicle) or stop by freddys(camera return)

maybe stay at jvds. will not explore that in my ramblings. definitely not ruled out and very, very possible pool party at house with missing anita.

drive continues towards lighthouse area(present: dk,jvds,nh. probably-sk.maybe-freddy. could replace dk for sk, but more than likely as stated)

lighthouse area would substantiate rock scene,head injury,rape for sure-something bad happened(nh convulsing,blood,head injury leading to convulsion)

was daddy called immediately, or called thirty to an hour later (still considered immediately) because boys present thought they could handle situation like true 'pimps,thugs,gangsters' would. could explain others involvement, knowledge. "man,come up here-check this shit out.you will never believe what happened"

back at vds and k home(s) eventually, guessing 230-330am: vds(browsing net,messaging through hotmail)-freddy,val,or pvds. k(friend from florida,messaging through hotmail)-whichever k was home. computer manipulated records could have occurred here, which would allow for other scenarios from both homes. only brought up to show expertise in manipulating records, if necessary-dk.

what do these clues mean. i do not know: (1)spotting by gardener at racquet club of 4 people in a car by racquest club. did he confirm dk car, through description, or just a car. of 4 if true, you would think dk, jvds, nh, and who else. is this story even true. (2) break-in of fh(knife,trap,what else went unnoticed)where does this fit in to scenario besides sc was reported to have done it. does that mean sc was definitely in the disposal. what about sg or kg.

the boys knew sg(maybe kg) were on boat that evening (boat proposal to jvds earlier). boys knew sc had access to boat(little dingy boat that took people to tattoo,parked closeby in water). was either boat used right away or did coordination happen a day or two later, after coordination. or was ocean never used-incinerator or landfill plan by pvds. pvds had to eventually be the mastermind. i think this is way too obvious. did vanderstraaten have boat. if one of jvds first calls went to pvds, then one of pvds first calls went to vanderstraaten.dirty hand.

tidbit. i think. vds and gottenbos good friends. vds and vanderstraaten good friends. a=b and b=c, then a=c. gottenbos good friends with vanderstraaten. if he did not have boat and only helped sabotage, gottenbos would not been hard to arrange even after that night of sg,kg being on boat. boat got cleaned.left island and 2 businesses. if boat used after first night, or incinerator/landfill, nh body would have to come to vds residence or be hidden well(or stored).

i stopped here. but will make a couple of observations before revisiting my theory.

blocked search at vds by wit:(1) yukky clothes(muddy,bloody) in house(2)people at house that could not be seen(3)other evidence in house(4)body in house/on premises.

in addition to help in cover up of crime, sabotage of investigation: a couple of lucky bounces help those responsible. an example that i hadn't thought of before.certain rumors can easily turn in to fact. suspects do not dispute because it may help their cause by distancing the truth.

may or not be tied to above paragraph, pvds at atm/mcdonalds at 4am. why would he be here. a much closer atm, he was not eating, and probably did not pick up jvds or jvds/nh in the lights of a mcd parking lot. then why. it definitely pulls his wherabouts from sleeping man to 'out-and-about man' that night. he wa doing something.

if rock painting is true, it has something to do with crime scene. as good of a spot as any for isolated rape. rock painting implies direct cover-up. additional crime by pro-actively obstructing justice.

im done rambling for now. will revisit my brainstorming later.

feel free to disprove my ramblings or add to them.

i have a feeling only perpetrators will know exact details, to the minute, of that night. we will eventually know bits and pieces and tie them together over time, but will never know every last detail of the night.


 

[Blonde]

Mark Purcell...found a birthday of August 29th on that Friends in Aruba site, then the site froze up on me. I believe this group is where those pics from December came from the day before Joran was released last time. Remember their supposed Christmas party....

Is his son's name Mark too?...Wife Marlene...from Texas. Is that an old picture? I had thought I had seen it a while back as dated, if so he may be older. Is his son a friend of Joran's?

The first thing I clicked on when I googled was a porn forum and didn't stay very long and didn't read Mark's post or what it was about!!!

he has a myspace account i posted it sometime this week now i lost the link

Christian Porn God
 
    "I dare you to Spank the Monkey!"

Male
27 years old
Palm Beach, ABC Islands
Aruba



Last Login: 2/2/2008 
 

[Nut44x4]

Hi nut...I'm looking for an old post of yours and I saw one for early December where you asked if there where any pay phones on Aruba...LOL...but I don't suppose you can remember why you asked? TIA

Hi Mum...I am still reading back, catching up. I think we were discussing phone records and why a call may not show on those records. I thought ... PAY PHONE!

OH...I FOUND IT>>>
lol....
Quote from: Nut44x4 on December 04, 2007, 06:15:26 PM
Are there pay phones on Aruba?

   Perhaps I should be asking Glenda...where there is a pay phone, there is often a street lamp 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2417.msg312535;topicseen#msg312535

[caesu]

OK Here's a question for Everyone....What Do You think is the signifigance of Joran talking to Patrick in the tapes about Natalee coming from a rich family and knowing Bush....He said something like.....I didn't know the B***H was from a rich family....does He mean that it would have been better if She was poor (so to speak) because no one would have cared or what....I just thought it was weird that He even said anything about Her social status...any thoughts anyone....

He wouldn't have picked her to target, imo.  He/they probably had visions of all Alabamians living in one room shacks with no electricity and no indoor plumbing, etc. and being REAL dumb.

i think he was just really surprised by Beth's determination to get her daughter back.
afterwards he thought it must be money or connections because Joran's sick brain doesn't get that mothers will go all the way to get a child back.

to me that sounds like Natalee was not Joran's first victim. i am quite convinced of that.
because how can he be surprised by the determination of a mother if you haven't  'dealt with' the determination of a previous mother.

like he had done the exact same thing before and lucky for him those parents where in so much pain and depression that they didn't have the energy left to keep searching and asking questions.

or does he really think he can just let a girl disappear and nobody will ask where she is??

this guy is a real predator. 

[Ono]

Is this Aruba's version of the ending...

Joran banned from the country.
Paulus' ties to government agencies cut.
Case never solved, nor prosecuted.

Aruba is safe now. Please come visit us. We have handled the problem.

I'm thinking that's what they're thinking/hoping....but, hey, maybe not.  However, that sounds par for the course.

[MumInOhio]

Hi nut...I'm looking for an old post of yours and I saw one for early December where you asked if there where any pay phones on Aruba...LOL...but I don't suppose you can remember why you asked? TIA

Hi Mum...I am still reading back, catching up. I think we were discussing phone records and why a call may not show on those records. I thought ... PAY PHONE!

OH...I FOUND IT>>>
lol....
Quote from: Nut44x4 on December 04, 2007, 06:15:26 PM
Are there pay phones on Aruba?

   Perhaps I should be asking Glenda...where there is a pay phone, there is often a street lamp 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2417.msg312535;topicseen#msg312535

Thanks Nut...I found the post of yours I was looking for after about an hour and then realized I had saved the darn thing....LOL


Thanks Blonde...I saw that, but was having such a time loading pages that I didn't click on any links or very few for a couple of days.

No wonder I got a porn forum.....

[MumInOhio]

OK Here's a question for Everyone....What Do You think is the signifigance of Joran talking to Patrick in the tapes about Natalee coming from a rich family and knowing Bush....He said something like.....I didn't know the B***H was from a rich family....does He mean that it would have been better if She was poor (so to speak) because no one would have cared or what....I just thought it was weird that He even said anything about Her social status...any thoughts anyone....

He wouldn't have picked her to target, imo.  He/they probably had visions of all Alabamians living in one room shacks with no electricity and no indoor plumbing, etc. and being REAL dumb.

i think he was just really surprised by Beth's determination to get her daughter back.
afterwards he thought it must be money or connections because Joran's sick brain doesn't get that mothers will go all the way to get a child back.

to me that sounds like Natalee was not Joran's first victim. i am quite convinced of that.
because how can he be surprised by the determination of a mother if you haven't  'dealt with' the determination of a previous mother.

like he had done the exact same thing before and lucky for him those parents where in so much pain and depression that they didn't have the energy left to keep searching and asking questions.

or does he really think he can just let a girl disappear and nobody will ask where she is??

this guy is a real predator. 

caesu...this was not his first victim...others came forward...and Dirty cop Jacobs dissuaded some not to testify. I am sorry I don't have links, but it was discussed on the forum and IIRC Beth did on TV as well.

[Peaches]

caesu, JVDS said they had done it twenty other times and nothing bad had ever happened. 

He's a real piece of work.  Anita must be so proud. 

[Nut44x4]

I think the comments about Natalee being from a rich family and knowing Bush just reflect what Joran considers a high status in others.  He thinks status is conferred by having money and knowing people in high political circles.  Think about it.  That is status on Aruba.  That's the only status there.  Money, lots of it, and political power are what run that island and the only things that count, to Joran.  When the attention of the world turned on Aruba after she disappeared, he attributed this attention to these two characteristics which are all important on Aruba.  She must have been rich and known Bush, Joran figured, or why else would all these people care what happened to her?  This, my friends, is the thought process of a psychopath.

BINGO...big time..

Plus, he read it at RU, lol. Perhaps HE is Jenna at RU, lol. 

[Ono]

Joran persona non grata on Aruba
Rudy Croes says "except for judicial research he is no longer welcome here"
Hirsch Ballin is preparing a law which makes it possible to explain them undesirable.
"Joran is now the first example of a Dutchman who is not needed on Aruba"
Legally they can not refuse Joran entry to Aruba, but they do not want Joran to return.
Ministry of Justice has also started examining if a cell phone was smuggled into prison.

Thanks, Martini - who is Hirsch Ballin and what position of power does he have, do you know?

[Buckeye]

Hi nut...I'm looking for an old post of yours and I saw one for early December where you asked if there where any pay phones on Aruba...LOL...but I don't suppose you can remember why you asked? TIA

Hi Mum...I am still reading back, catching up. I think we were discussing phone records and why a call may not show on those records. I thought ... PAY PHONE!

OH...I FOUND IT>>>
lol....
Quote from: Nut44x4 on December 04, 2007, 06:15:26 PM
Are there pay phones on Aruba?

   Perhaps I should be asking Glenda...where there is a pay phone, there is often a street lamp 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2417.msg312535;topicseen#msg312535

If a pay phone was used and the gardner's testimony is accurate...I say Racquet
Club.  Eight minute phone call to Deepak, meet up by racquet club and .....

Setar listing of phones:

Available Coin Phone Booth:[/b]

Adventure Golf
Alamo Rent-A-Car
Allegro Casino Aruba
Aruba Airport Authority
Aruba Blue Village
Aruba Golf Club
Aruba International Beach Club
Aruba Nautical Club
Aruba Ports Authority
Aruba Racquet Club N.V.
Arubus Terminal

http://www.setar.aw/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=113&Itemid=125

[San]

WE NEED TO BOYCOTT ARUBA EVEN MORE.

Until they address what happened and arrests are made.

The following people need to be punished for what they did:

Law enforcement:

Nelson Odobur
Rudy Croes
Van der Straaten
Dompig
Karin Janssen
Dennis Jacobs
Ben Vocking
Judges Smit and Witt

Criminals:

Paulus Van der Sloot
Joran Van der Sloot
Deepak Kalpoe
Satish Kalpoe
Guido Weaver
GVC
Koen Gottenbos
Sander Gottenbos
Lorenzo

Prostitutes:

Julia Renfro
Anita Van der Sloot

BOYCOTT ARUBA

[pinkbanana]

you Monkeys are so right...he was NOT expecting Beth!

He thought he would be in the clear...with daddy and everyone else in his corner.
And mommy thinking oh, my poor Joran all the girls want him, it's not his fault.

NO DOUBT this was NOT his first time doing this...he did say he has done this 20 times
before...BUT this time his little secret was found out. This time HE IS CAUGHT!

d