Natalee Case Discussion #728 2/10 - 2/11/08

[private eye]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

[WhiskeyGirl]

An island with increasing crime and increasing high end tourist properties -

1/30/2008 11:27:00 AM   

Why are we selling off the island at our own expense?

Islanders are at risk of a Third World existence as

The new Minister for the Environment has launched his Cabinet Career by issuing a Special Development Order (SDO) to speed up development at Coco Reef on the south shore.

It appears that the government is 'fast-tracking' luxury housing for foreign fractional ownership, while affordable housing and other benefits for Bermudians are on the slow track.

Some examples: Never in my lifetime have I seen so many potholes, large and small cracks, lumps and ripples on our roads, in some places worse than some of those Third World countries and islands we think we're better than. Can we realistically expect to compete with them just by building luxury hotels while our infrastructure falls into derelict status?

No matter how the statistics are being parsed in their presentation, there's no doubt in our experience that serious and violent crime in Bermuda is increasing. And two contributing factors, population density and xenophobia are on the rise, both being fuelled by the government's push for excessive, high-end tourism construction.

And all this is supposed to make us happy? When I look at the faces of people riding or driving or walking on our streets I don't see them happy. I don't see or hear the cordiality, friendliness or good nature that made us the tourist destination of choice.

Doesn't anybody get it? We are being taken for a ride. Is all this haste for glitz worth the trashing of our culture, our island and our people?

Are we to be relegated to a Third World existence with buckled roads and homeless families and angry youth gunning each other down just so we can sell off our island to foreigners looking for the luxury life? That may be a harsh analysis, but will anything short of a shock wake us up?

http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=135&ArticleID=36456&TM=45537.06

I wonder if someone in Aruba will be writing similar words in ten years?

Here is another -

Our children are lacking the support that many of us received as adults. We were educated in the principles of Love thy Neighbour and Respect for our Elders, and most of us went to Sunday school. We were taught values and had them reinforced every school day at assembly. This country has slipped its moorings on values. We should not be surprised that our young people lack direction.

Many children are going to school hungry and many children are not receiving the support to flourish; and with the decline in the extended family they are not receiving the wholesome upbringing Bermuda once prided itself on.

http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=24&SubSectionID=270&ArticleID=36555&TM=59572.54

In the U.S. there is often a complaint that people move to the suburbs to avoid fixing problems in the inner-cities.  Where are the suburbs if you live on an island?

[Rob]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

Then we have them right where we want them. And the boycott was justified and deserved. It would all be validated PI.

[Rob]

PI, the difference this time is that 13 million watched 20/20. 8 million watched SBS6.

This isn't the super secret info Mos squawked about last time and then did nothing. Everyone knows what this entails.

People are now informed like never before.

[Buckeye]

Natalee's case has its own summary page at ad.nl
Many articles, although of course in Dutch, can be seen here w/ reader comments.
http://www.ad.nl/holloway/

Thanks Nut.  The site is great. I will not read all day, I will not read all day....

[private eye]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

Then we have them right where we want them. And the boycott was justified and deserved. It would all be validated PI.

True, except the real goal is to prosecute the guilty. I have never bet before that someone is going to get killed, but when this actually becomes checked, the crime folks in Aruba are simply going to kill Joran.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

Troubling questions remain -

What is the worst thing that could have happened if anyone had dialed 911 to get help for Natalee?

Did Joran make a confession early on?  Did authorities avoid looking to the water for remains that first week in June?  Why focus on the land? 

Does Joran have a right to confess and be held accountable for his actions the night Natalee Holloway disappeared?

Confession, responsibility, punishment, and forgiveness seem very basic.  Has Joran been given these opportunities?

Is it possible that no authority on Aruba would accept a viable confession from Joran?

Would anyone be allowed to take responsibility for what happened to Natalee?  Will anyone be punished?

What happened to forgiveness?

[private eye]

PI, the difference this time is that 13 million watched 20/20. 8 million watched SBS6.

This isn't the super secret info Mos squawked about last time and then did nothing. Everyone knows what this entails.

People are now informed like never before.

I know I am in the minority, but Mos is for real.

[klaasend]

Emotions Run High, Aruba Is Angry At Van Der Sloot

February 7th 2008, Aruba.
 
Arubans still feel attacked by the U.S. media.
Many believe the pride of Aruba has been tarnished.

ORANJESTAD-Hundreds of locals expressed their anger on radio shows
and via e-mail to newspapers after watching the "confession-on-tape" on
Monday evening. Arubans reacted massively against Joran van der Sloot,
and that for the first time since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on
May 30th, 2005.

For the past 2 years the public on the island gave Joran van der Sloot the
benefit of the doubt, in that he was involved in the disappearance of
Natalee. There was no blood, no body, and no evidence of a murder.
Many on the island believed that Natalee was still alive, and was in hiding
somewhere. Others believed that she may have accidentally drowned at
sea, after she was left alone by Joran on the beach.

At least 5,000 government employees were granted two days free, to
help with the search for Natalee in 2005. Dutch F-16 planes were sent to
scan the entire island for a body recently buried underground. Thousands
of volunteers helped search for the missing teen without any result.
There was a search every day for months. And the government was
spending millions in the investigation.

Arubans felt that they were constantly attacked by the U.S. media, and at
times by the Holloway family. That did not help with having sympathy for
the Holloway family, and it certainly did not help the case. In the contrary
Arubans shifted in a defensive mode, and felt that their pride was being
attacked by the media. Arubans felt nothing that they did to help find
Natalee was appreciated.

The Dutch crime reporter, Peter R. de Vries started to investigate the
case at the beginning of 2007. De Vries has spent months studying the
investigation reports, and interviewing those involved in the case. Patrick
van der Eem –a 34 year old Antillean- approached De Vries in The
Netherlands in the middle of 2007, he wanted to help out solving the case.

De Vries hired Van der Eem as an undercover thug that would make
Joran comfortable enough to tell exactly what happened that night. Joran
told his story on different occasions while Van der Eem was driving, and
it was all captured on hidden camera.

Van der Eem is a businessman in Arnhem who loves Aruba, and wanted
closure for the parents of Natalee. In addition, he was tired of the bad
press Aruba has been getting. With the story of Joran on tape, De Vries
added the pieces of the puzzle together and claimed he has solved the
disappearance of Natalee Holloway. His program was broadcasted on
Monday evening to the Aruban public.


"Joran is a psychopath, he has lied to everyone on the island." said an
angry water-sports businesswoman, who did not want her name to be
made public. "I feel so sorry for Natalee, and her parents who had to go
through years of uncertainty as to what happened to their daughter. Our
island will suffer for a long time too, we will bare the consequences of the
actions of one man. My colleague of Pennsylvania was told by his family,
are you going again to that murder island? A person on CNN also
advised tourists that they are better off in Bermuda.''

Management Consultant, Mathilde Robles said that she knew Joran van
der Sloot by face. "He seems like a nice guy, and I did not want to pre-
judge him. But now after watching the program on Monday, I am certain
that he is behind the disappearance of Natalee, he himself has admitted
it."

Robles is shocked on Van der Sloot's comment, that he can not believe
that this has happened to him. "If the judge does not punish this man, we
the Arubans will," said Robles.

Joran van der Sloot said on different occasions that he felt particularly
sorry for the Aruban community. The image of Aruba as the safest
country in the Caribbean has been tarnished ever since the
disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

According to the government, the case has cost the island tens of millions
of dollars. Tourism from the U.S. fell by 9 percent during 2006. Aruba is
70 percent dependent on the U.S. generating market. There are barely
arrivals from Alabama, the state of Natalee Holloway. The Governor of
Alabama has imposed a travel boycott to Aruba.

Public anger is also directed to the father of Joran, Paul van der Sloot,
mainly because Paul has smuggled a cellular phone to his son in prison.
Many on the island now believe that the family Van der Sloot is out for
the money. Paul van der Sloot said earlier that he would sew the country
of Aruba, because he was held as suspect in the disappearance of
Natalee. On tape, Joran said he will also sew, and wants to cash in big
time for a house in Spain.

Emotions ran so high, there were a few people who expressed that
the Van der Sloot family should be deported from Aruba.

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54632

[klaasend]

Big Audience For Confession-On-Tape


February 7th 2008, Aruba.


ORANJESTAD-The program of crime reporter Peter R. de Vries
named "confession-on-tape" was watched by 13 million Americans on
Monday evening. The number of viewers that watched the program is
quiet high, considering the fact that there are over 250 different television
stations in the United States.

The program of De Vries was broadcasted by ABC in their program
20/20, that usually receives an average of 5 million viewers per episode.
The public in Aruba also got to see the confession on Monday evening.

The program was broadcasted in The Netherlands a day before, on
Sunday evening. Eight million viewers in The Netherlands watched the
confession of Joran van der Sloot, a record in Dutch television.

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54627

[Rob]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

Then we have them right where we want them. And the boycott was justified and deserved. It would all be validated PI.

True, except the real goal is to prosecute the guilty. I have never bet before that someone is going to get killed, but when this actually becomes checked, the crime folks in Aruba are simply going to kill Joran.

That's my point - the guilty are identified. Aruba refusing to act - places the onus on them. No wonder there has been a closed door meeting going for 240 straight hours now.

I have the drug shipments stats somewhere that sort of confirms that the drug lords have had to move their shipments around. They can't be happy about that. Let me see if I can find that info.

[private eye]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

Troubling questions remain -

What is the worst thing that could have happened if anyone had dialed 911 to get help for Natalee?

Did Joran make a confession early on?  Did authorities avoid looking to the water for remains that first week in June?  Why focus on the land? 

Does Joran have a right to confess and be held accountable for his actions the night Natalee Holloway disappeared?

Confession, responsibility, punishment, and forgiveness seem very basic.  Has Joran been given these opportunities?

Is it possible that no authority on Aruba would accept a viable confession from Joran?

Would anyone be allowed to take responsibility for what happened to Natalee?  Will anyone be punished?

What happened to forgiveness?

Joran cannot be forgiven for what he claims not to have done

[BTgirl]

This is a campaign year, and I think we have been pressuring the wrong governments. It is time the media take these questions to Bush, and the candidates. We have an absolute and legitimate right to know and it is absurd that Bush has not been publicly questioned about this case. If him responding is such a dman big deal, if this is such an awkward question to force him to address, then we can assume that some how the US is dirty in Aruba as well.

I know my stance isn't popular, but I'm not someone who always supports my government even when I think the government is wrong. To me, blind acceptance leads to exactly the type of corruption we've witnessed in Aruba. I agree with you - our government at the top levels needs get on board.

[Buckeye]

Early on, Paulus and Anita gave an interview (I think to ABC).  The video has been pulled.  There was discussion of Paulus being out of work and he said he couldn't go to the courthouse so he was working from home.  He was never reclused from his job.  It was all for appearance sake.   

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/109260
http://www.newsweek.com/id/109260/page/2
http://www.newsweek.com/id/109260/page/3

Cracking the Holloway Case?
Meet the crime writer who believes he's solved the mystery.

De Vries secretly filmed van der Sloot (middle, with his father) saying he had witnessed Natalee Holloway's apparent death and helped dispose of her body. (Van der Sloot has said he was joking and maintains his innocence.)
 
By Catharine Skipp | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Feb 8, 2008 | Updated: 10:56 a.m. ET Feb 8, 2008

[private eye]

The family started the circling of phone calls spreading the word that Natalee was dead June 10, 2005. All of the relatives started arriving at Mrs. reynolds house on June 11, 2005, armed with food and flowers thinking that the burial process was underway, only to see on TV the gradual recanting of the confession by Joran. This activity began because the FBI said they witnessed the confession and that Natalee was definitely dead.

Now wtf is so secretive about that that the FBI won't publicly acknowledge it. Why do they not clear the air about what they saw and heard? It is absolutely insane and absurd.

[martini]

Good Morning! I am behind in my reading~

Just some thoughts IMO

Mos was the spokesperson for "The dog and pony show"

When the job got more complicated with the recent events he screamed~

I am on vacation starting NOW!

Janssen and Mos ran back to the Netherlands. Who could blame them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ask a Rasta "Does smoking ganja makes you lie or tell the truth?"

"The TRUTH Mon, the truth."

[Nut44x4]

http://www.elsevier.nl/dossier/asp/dossier/620/index.html

Here is another dosssier w/ summaries, some going back to 2005 in Dutch
The site loads slow, but passing along anyway for those who wish to peek.

[Tamikosmom]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

Troubling questions remain -

What is the worst thing that could have happened if anyone had dialed 911 to get help for Natalee?

Did Joran make a confession early on?  Did authorities avoid looking to the water for remains that first week in June?  Why focus on the land? 

Does Joran have a right to confess and be held accountable for his actions the night Natalee Holloway disappeared?

Confession, responsibility, punishment, and forgiveness seem very basic.  Has Joran been given these opportunities?

Is it possible that no authority on Aruba would accept a viable confession from Joran?

Would anyone be allowed to take responsibility for what happened to Natalee?  Will anyone be punished?

What happened to forgiveness?

Joran cannot be forgiven for what he claims not to have done

I agree PI.

In my opinion ... the line in the sand regarding the issue of  forgiveness was drawn over 2000 years ago ...  "genuine" repentence and forgiveness are a package deal.

Janet

+++++++++++
 
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

[caesu]

yesterday i realized i've been looking too much in the dirty ditch.
so i got overwhelmed by it. (see previous thread)
i am not going to let that happen because it won't help.
i had a good night sleep.

i am not going too look again in the ditch that deep and in so much detail.
you guys have been doing that for me since the start.
i will never be able to keep up with and get all the information in.
i don't even think i can handle even if i tried.

the arubans have failed you, the dutch have failed you.
i have failed for not paying attention to what was really happening on aruba from the start of natalee's disappearance.
even before that when the ditch was created.

i think i will take a step back and look at the big picture.

keep you guys updated with dutch politics in connection with this.
because i believe the dutch politics are slowly realizing aruba, america, the dutch, the world will not wait an eternity for justice.

this week balkenende his visiting the antilles and aruba (friday!).
today peter r. de vries comes back the amsterdam.
so peter r. will be in the news talking about his usa tour while balkenende is not in the country.
if peter r. wasn't such a noble and democratic man he would stage a succesful coup d'etat with american backing - because he is a hero in both countries.
i think the timeline is interesting.
also hans mos being on 'vacation' in the netherlands.

in my signature is an earlier sting operation by peter r. de vries to show you what he can do.
i have to be honest but also that man is still free...
this are other cases not linked to natalee peter r. has covered / solved:

De Vries tracked down the Heineken-kidnapper Frans Meijer in Paraguay, worked on behalf of the Putten Two and revealed that Mabel Wisse Smit knew the criminal Klaas Bruinsma better than she had previously admitted. Another important issue in his show was a found floppy-disk. This disk contained detailed information from AIVD research, the Dutch secret service. It turned out that the service observed murdered politician Pim Fortuyn; the service thought that he had sex with Moroccan minors.

On 13 September 2006, De Vries was arrested in Oisterwijk and detained for several hours in Tilburg when he tried to confront a police officer with allegations about questionable actions concerning the inheritances of elderly women. He was charged with one count of trespassing. The case was dropped in January 2007 "in view of the final results of the persistent search for the truth and the results of the disciplinary inquest" into the behavior of the police officer in question.

(Mabel Wisse Smith is married to Prince Friso who lost his claim to the throne - due to Peter R. de Vries - this was huge)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_R._de_Vries
i am putting this out here to show you what peter r. is about.
peter r. de vries won't fail you!

he has managed to expose the ditch.
only a glimpse of the ditch.
even if people close their eyes and ears it is already a horrible stench.
the smell won't go away by ignoring it, that's what the dutch politics have been doing the last week.

but now balkenende himself has to go to aruba to a pre-planned summit with aruban pm.
he can't just cancel it because he doesn't want to go - that would be even more suspicious.
he doesn't want it covered by the media so he doesn't talk about it to pretend it's low-key.
but has to go there, although he doesn't want to see the ditch.

when he comes back the stench will follow him around everywhere.
and people will start to ask why he suddenly started stinking after having been in aruba.