Natalee Case Discussion #728 2/10 - 2/11/08

[caesu]

Translation

No Joran on Aruba during Balkenende visit.

No MSM spectacle.

We have to put this thing off.

what is this? where does this come from?

I think Rob is just saying that's how it will probably turn out.  It was Rob's interpretation of what was said and not translation. 

IF he puts antilles or aruba visits of. (but he won't, because he can't).
it effectivly means they ABC-islands are autonomous. and then chavez steps in and grabs the islands.
like indonesian did with east-timor.
the visit is very important even without Van Der Sloot-trainwreck.
it is about what their status / relation to the crown is in the kingdom. this is still not resolved.

[caesu]

Translation

No Joran on Aruba during Balkenende visit.

No MSM spectacle.

We have to put this thing off.

what is this? where does this come from?

I think Rob is just saying that's how it will probably turn out.  It was Rob's interpretation of what was said and not translation. 

IF he puts antilles or aruba visits of. (but he won't, because he can't).
it effectivly means they ABC-islands are autonomous. and then chavez steps in and grabs the islands.
like indonesian did with east-timor.
the visit is very important even without Van Der Sloot-trainwreck.
it is about what their status / relation to the crown is in the kingdom. this is still not resolved.

i am not sure it sounds a bit drastic.
but balkie is not that stupid. usa will not like balkie giving chavez reason to take a land grab.

[martini]

Joran Van der Sloot--A Man Without a Country~

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/joran-van-der-sloot-man-without-country

http://michellesaysso.blogspot.com/

[Rob]

Klaas, did you link your JibJabs for the new posters?

[caesu]

PHILIPSBURG--Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende and State Secretary of Kingdom Relations Ank Bijleveld-Schouten will be in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba for a working visit February 10-15.

The theme of this visit will be the revival of the relations within the Kingdom. Balkenende will be informed of the progress of the political process.

He and the State Secretary will be visiting projects in the fields of education, health care and economic development. Balkenende will deliver a guest lecture on dynamics in the Kingdom, society and economy at University of the Netherlands Antilles.

The Prime Minister and the State Secretary will visit all the islands during their stay.

Balkenende and Bijleveld-Schouten will arrive in St. Maarten Sunday evening, February 10. They will be received by Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles Emily de Jongh-Elhage.

The two Dutch dignitaries will be in Saba and St. Eustatius on Monday, February 11. In Saba there will be discussions with Lt. Governor Hyden Gittens and the Executive Council, and Sacred Heart School will be visited. During lunch they will talk to persons from the community who are active in the fields of nature, tourism and the environment.

In St. Eustatius, there will be discussions in the afternoon with Lt. Governor Sydney Sorton and the Executive Council. The hospital and the oil terminal will also be visited.

There will be a reception in St. Maarten in the evening.

The delegation will be in St. Maarten on Tuesday, February 12, with discussions with the Executive Council and a visit to the Courthouse, where Balkenende will deliver a speech on law enforcement and good government.

He and Bijleveld-Schouten will leave for Bonaire in the afternoon to meet with Lt. Governor Herbert Domacassé and the Executive Council.

Prime Minister Balkenende will deliver a guest lecture at University of the Netherlands Antilles in Curaçao at the end of the afternoon. Afterwards, he will enter into a discussion with the students. In the evening, the Government of the Netherlands Antilles will offer a dinner.

The Prime Minister and the State Secretary will have discussions with Governor Goedgedrag in Curaçao on Wednesday, February 13. They will also visit Chairman of the Parliament of the Netherlands Antilles Pedro Atacho. Furthermore, there will be discussions with Prime Minister De Jongh-Elhage and the Council of Ministers.

The delegation, accompanied Commissioner of Tourism and Economic Affairs Eugene Rhuggenaath, will visit the Renaissance project later in the afternoon. In the evening, there will be a reception with youngsters, the theme of which will be education, culture, sports and the business sector.

Balkenende and Bijleveld-Schouten will visit the Marine Barracks in Curaçao on Thursday, February 14. Here, attention will be given to a Department of Defence youth programme: “Future Plan Antillean Militia.” There will be consultations with the chairmen of the political parties in the Island Council of Curaçao later that morning.

The delegation will visit Tula Museum in the afternoon and a meeting has been scheduled with Lt. Governor Lisa Dindial and the Executive Council of Curaçao immediately afterward.

i bet they are going to have a lot of fun.
enjoy scenery. swimming. maybe even some sunbathing.

maybe some shark-watching in the evening.

[caesu]

Translation

No Joran on Aruba during Balkenende visit.

No MSM spectacle.

We have to put this thing off.

what is this? where does this come from?

That's how I translate the events of the day caesu. 

I take typical Aruban bullshit and decipher it into a easy to read format. LOL

you are very good at that. you almost got me... 

[cubbeegirl]

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Freudian slip



P: "Joran shouldn't you be in jail?" "I mean in school."

J: "Laten we geen oude koeien uit de Sloot halen"

This is too funny!!!!

[martini]

That the Kingdom Relations consultations between the Parliaments of the Netherlands, the Antilles and Aruba did not take place was to be expected. The majority of Antillean Members of Parliament (MPs), backed by their Aruban counterparts, refused to sit down with the Dutch delegation if it included PVV Freedom Party MP Hero Brinkman and even adopted a motion denying him entry to the Parliament building.

That was no surprise, after Brinkman repeatedly refused to apologise for his statements likening the Netherlands Antilles to a nest of thieves with corrupt administrators, as well as his motion calling for the sale of the Antilles on eBay~

[klaasend]

Klaas, did you link your JibJabs for the new posters?

Aruban can can

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/680506

The Hula Sloots

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/342564

The Kalpoes Charlston

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/339850

Joran & Guido

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/325958

 

[caesu]

Janet:   

Rene Van Nie writes in Dutch so it's easy to translate and some interesting reading. Look at this!

COVER UP!
Of the 10 mails I receive, it certainly talked about an 8 COVER UP.
The people no longer believe. And that's not good for the credibility of our rights system. People are Saturday. They can not imagine that being fair to Aruba. I do not know anymore. But that development is certainly dangerous. Because if there is a 'cover up' is that there are those people responsible for a marked decline in our tourist industry certainly about 20%. Plus, the criminal is what they do.
There is also a very clear theory to my readers tips on the 100 registered in the Netherlands have come after the broadcast within a trace. "On Aruba people do not dare to make a call, they trust it is not" and "they do not believe that something will be done with their tips." And "why did they have to call Netherlands. This is not dangerous and then there are what is done with their tips. "
In short, wrong bunch!

CONCERNED AMERIKANEN HAVE AL FROM THE START OF A COVER UP SPEAK. THAT IS THEIR BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH ARUBA.
AND IF THAT IS NOT SO THAN THE AUTHORITIES TO ARUBA IN ANY CASE VERY VERY MISSPELLED ENTERED TO OUTSIDE. AND STILL DOING THAT.

FROM THE AMIGOE:
Van Cromvoirt is employed at the Visibility Team. His father has a bewakingsbedrijf, VCB, which for a few big hotels. The Public Attorney's Office (OM) has confirmed that the arrest was carried out. Of which he suspected was not disclosed. It would therefore be that he has withheld information, but it could be possible that he has been seen with the girl on the night of her disappearance. Whether the arrest is a result of a tip following the broadcast of Investigation requested, last week, wanted the PPS not confirm.
FROM THE PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Vriendje commissariszoon

The reason why Geoffrey has previously not been arrested, it is whispered in
Oranjestad, is the fact that he is good friends with the son of the
Aruban Police Gerold Dompig.

Dompig was leader of the team that investigates
To the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Dompig Was the second of the research team. He Followed by Jan van der Straten, who retired.

Geoffrey has some problems. He is hyperactive. There is a name for that disease but who am I even lost. This makes it clear why he cries continuously during their interrogations.



http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

excellent link. maybe i'ill read some of it one day.
latest update oct. 2007.

[Hotshot]

HOTSHOT - YOU ASKED ABOUT THIS. I emailed the pics to dave that I have.

BARREL
Searchers find no new clues in search for missing teenager in Aruba
July 15, 2005
ORANJESTAD, Aruba A metal barrel hauled out of the ocean briefly raised hopes in Aruba in the search for Natalee Holloway.
<snip>
a police official now says that the severely corroded barrel appears to have no clues to Holloway's fate.
http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3601644


Natalee's body is in a drum on the valero refinery. Taken there by the beheaded Heineken guy...who was killed to keep her quiet, however he may not have gotten her into he incinerator; just another barrel around a refinery. pressure build up from the decay may make it leak and give the dogs a scent.
Posted by: three inch rope | July 16, 2005 05:18 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_38.html

kermit, I cant get those links in or they dont work.  Do you have actual pics you can send to me?  kathee1963@yahoo.com   TIA

[Rob]

Klaas, they're just GREAT!!!

Nita's hairy chest seems right on the money... and her all know Paulus is a Sasquatch.

those crazy Kalpoes . . .

And that dancin fool Guido...

 

[caesu]

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot.  The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, was the reaction of the OM.
 

Houston, we've got a problem.

yes they are fighting behing the scenes big time.
must be.
aruban OM, dutch OM.
justice ministers croes and hirsch ballin taking hits at eachother with bull shit statements who don't even make sense.

friday i posted this earlier. 4 ! statements contradicted eachtother.

balkie just doesn't know where to look and what to say.

sorry for repeating but i think the the big word is timeline.
peter r. de vries knew about the antillen/aruba visit.
that's why he had to stop the undercovernig operation with patrick - he could have gotten more - but peter r. thought: this should do it. and it did!!!

bang big media hype never seen this before. some people think it is not that big because balkie or hirsch ballin are not sending out dramatic statements, well, the don't even know what to say - that's how bad it is!

the political and judicial system is caught with their pants down full view of the whole world.
i even think even your Mukasey had jaw dropping while watching tv.

i hope i am reading the messages right. might be a little premature.

Yeppers Caesu, I believe time being spent isn't about how to arrest the bastard but how to spin not prosecuting him without making the Dutch system look corrupt.

If there is one thing that has been pervasive throughout this entire investigation it is the Dutch system has no backbone. Zero, zip, nada. It takes an atricious murder like Theo van Gogh for them to get the nerve to even prosecute, and of course he is one of their own elite. Only 28 life sentences given out to convicted murderers in Holland in the last 67 years?

Does an American victim even stand a chance?

i know. but if this thing is going to explode.
there will be a very different election campaign and there will be a landslide win.
PVV no doubt. it maybe not all good. but right now it is all bad.

[klaasend]

Geraldo 2/10/08 Beth and Peter

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=178zR_ul7Yw

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OaIMz5Oz9E

[for natalie]

Klaas, did you link your JibJabs for the new posters?

Aruban can can

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/680506

The Hula Sloots

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/342564

The Kalpoes Charlston

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/339850

Joran & Guido

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/325958

 

   Jib  Jab is a riot...   That is what I love about this site...you are able to put some comic relief in a really upsetting situation...Love ya!      Please share for some of us ignorant  of the politics of Curacao, Aruba (Netherland Antilles and their relationship with Holland.  Is Aruba considered separate from Bonaire and Curacao...is it independent of the other NL islands?   When you say Chavez  you cannot mean Communism?  I  almost married a Curacao sweetheart( in the 70's ) and it was a very European place then.  In fact he is still thriving there..what has changed?   

[Tamikosmom]

PI,

July 06, 2005 at 12:50 AM

I just thought we needed to clarify that and also that Paul and Beth currently have different feelings towards Aruba.

 

Letter From Paul Reynolds

Natalee Holloway's Uncle, Paul Reynolds penned a letter to the Editor and sent it to Amigoe, Aruba AM and Aruba Today. He was on MSNBC's Scarborough Country Tuesday night to discuss the letter and related topics.

Below is the unedited text of the letter.
Letter to the Editor

I have been reading Aruba AM, the English Aruban newspaper sent out over the internet. There appears to be a growing backlash against the Holloway family that I am very concerned about. I am sure the people in Aruba wish this investigation could be resolved as much as our family does.

The people in Aruba have been overwhelming supportive of our entire family since Natalie's disappearance. When I arrived on the Island two days after she was reported missing, I was always greeted with expressions of concern and hope for Natalie's return. There are hundreds if not thousands of stories of people coming together and helping each other during this incident. Bernadett from Economy Car Rental, the people at Holiday Inn, the Aruban Government Workers who left work to search the island are just a few of the examples. This is the good story of Aruba . The compassion and desire to help has meant more than you can imagine to our family.

Unfortunately, there are a very small number of individuals that are holding the people of Aruba , the Holloway family and what seems like the whole world hostage. These individuals are not a reflection of the Aruban people or the system of Justice in Aruba . These individuals know what happened and are refusing to accept responsibility for their actions. It also appears that certain individuals may be attempting to protect those individuals that know what happened. Helping them hide from their responsibility will destroy rather than preserve what is left of their lives, hopes and dreams.

The concerns that we have about the investigation are real. It began with the 10 day delay with taking the three original suspects into custody. My sister, Beth and her husband, Jug, arrived on the island the same day Natalie was reported missing. They were able to identify the three individuals she had last been seen with and report this to the police. The three suspects were briefly questioned and released. Their stories turned out to be false and their allegations led to the detainment of two innocent individuals. In a missing person case, every day is critical. Ten days would allow those individuals responsible time to hide evidence and coordinate their stories. What if the missing person was alive in those first few days? The failure to take those individuals into custody and seek evidence may have damaged this investigation beyond repair. Why was this done? Was it an attempt to cover up whatever happened and or protect those individuals involved?
 
Because the father of one of the suspects is a member of the Judicial system, there was immediate concern on behalf of the family that the investigation might not be fair and objective. The interest and presence of the FBI along with assurances from the US Government and the Prime Minister of Aruba reduced those concerns.

Actions since then have again increased concerns that the investigation is not being done in an objective manner. Why would you refuse assistance from the FBI in resolving a difficult case? Why would you hinder a private search team, composed of a group of volunteers whose director has experienced a similar loss of his own?
The release of two of the suspects is also a matter of concern.

Although the latest (third) story of one of the suspects places him alone with Natalie on the beach, the other two have admitted to lying. Is this not obstruction of justice, interfering with an investigation or conspiracy to cover up a crime? Aren't these illegal activities whether or not you are involved in the actual crime itself? How can these individuals be allowed to go free and possibly leave the country? Why would they lie unless they had knowledge of a crime either before or after the fact? Why would the father of one of the suspects tell all three that without a body, there is no crime?

As you can see, our many questions and concerns are about the investigation, not the Island or the people of Aruba . They are as much a victim of these individuals as we are. Please join us in our request to the Prime Minister of Aruba and the Dutch Authorities to launch an independent investigation of this matter and allow all of us to learn the truth, return Natalie to her home and go forward with our lives.
 
Respectfully yours,
Paul Reynolds
Natalie Holloway's Uncle
Wednesday, July 06, 2005 at 12:50 AM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/week27/index.html


Paul Reynolds
'Scarborough Country' for July 12
July 12, 2005

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: i know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process.

You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice.

And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.

SCARBOROUGH: And wait a second. I mean, these confessions were so rock solid that you actually had the FBI coming to you, coming to your family, Natalee's family, saying, we are sorry to tell you this, but there has been a confession. One of these boys has confessed, and Natalee is no longer alive.

How do you pull something like that back off the table? Have you had or has your sister had or has anybody in the family had any explanation from Aruban officials whatever happened to this confession, where they buried it?

REYNOLDS: I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did.

At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, you said—talked about June the 10th. That's when you all were told that the confession had been made, and you said that the family actually started a grieving process. What did the family do?

REYNOLDS: You know, grieving is—it's a difficult process. We were all notified. We exchanged phone calls, making sure everyone in the family was notified. I even had to tell my children, very upsetting to them, very upsetting to all of us.

SCARBOROUGH: Wait, Paul. Are you telling me, back on June the 10th, you told your children, based on the confession of one of these—these punks that took Natalee away from the bar, that Natalee was dead? This was over a month ago. You had to break it to your family, the entire family, Natalee's entire family, because of the confessions, knew that she was dead, and yet here we are over a month later, and they are still claiming they don't have enough evidence to nail these guys?

REYNOLDS: That's absolutely correct.

You know, the FBI had informed my sister based on the initial interrogations that that was their belief. That information was given to our family. And it's just—it's a very difficult thing to go through. Grieving should only be a process you have to go through one time.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822

[Tamikosmom]

Justice interrogates Joran  

While he was secretly being recorded in conversation with ‘informant’ Patrick van der Eem, he was under the influence of marihuana, said Joran van der Sloot in the interrogation with Justice.

<snipped>

ORANJESTAD -- Joran van der Sloot declared that the conversations in Patrick van der Eem’s car, were carried on under influence of marihuana.  He said this at a police station in Rotterdam, where he was voluntarily interrogated yesterday morning. 

Detectives of the Aruban police and of the Corps national police service (KLPD) and his Dutch lawyer were present at the interrogation that lasted about two hours, said the Public Prosecutor (OM).

Other than that, Van der Sloot stuck to all his prior declarations in the investigation. He denies having anything to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, said the OM.  He could leave after the interrogation.  The examining magistrate decided on February 5 that Joran van der Sloot is not to be detained.  The OM has appealed that decision and expects a verdict from the Common Court of Justice.     

The OM has called on the media in a press release not to launch a witch hunt around the Holloway-case and to abstain from investigations of their own.  “The interest for this case seems to degenerate into a witch hunt, whereby several people are being menaced in an intimidated manner”, is the opinion of justice.  To the OM, these practices are ‘unacceptable’.  People are being marked as suspects without any confirmation and menaced as such with all its consequences.  Besides, other than causing big unrest, journalistic investigations harm the criminal investigation, said justice.  “Without wanting to harm the value of free press coverage, justice would like the media to be reserved, exactly for the above reasons.” 

The OM mentioned as an example the media hunt on an accomplice that Van der Sloot mentioned.  After this person (Daury Rodriguez) had declared that he has nothing to do with the case, all eyes focused on a next person (Lorenzo van Rijn). 

“The cameras were all around his house”, informed district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “He had to take on a lawyer for the contact with us.”

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot.  The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, was the reaction of the OM. 

Many institutions, official bodies, lawyers, journalists, and psychologists are asking themselves how to handle the outpouring of Joran van der Sloot before the hidden camera.   According to law psychologist Albert Wagenaar, there is not even a confession in the revealing reportage.  There is no solving of the case and it is no confession of a criminal act, ’because none is indicated’, said the psychologist.

The ombudsman of NOS, Tom van Bussel is of the opinion that the NOS should have been more reserved in reporting Peter R. de Vries’ claim that he had solved the Holloway disappearance-case.  After the coverage of SBS6 on Sunday evening it appeared that De Vries’ promise is not fulfilled.  “What we know now is that Joran is a confused guy.  Like a source of the OM phrased it: ‘We thought that we would get a solution, but what we got was another of the so-many stories”, states the ombudsman on his NOS-website. 

At this moment, the Dutch Council for Journalism doesn’t want to say whether certain publications in the Joran van der Sloot-case have crossed the borders of careful journalism. 

Nevertheless, top executive of the Dutch OM, Harm Brouwer praises De Vries for his coverage.  The chairman of the college of procurator-general said in an interview in Trouw last Friday that De Vries has delivered good journalistic work.  “The criticism from media circles on De Vries is pretty hypocritical”, said Brouwer.  “What he did is a logical continuation on a trend that is going on for years.  He is in many respects a journalistic professional.”

Brouwer wants a social debate on citizens that are actively involved in tracing activities.  That is just a detail.  The point is, where private investigation must start and where it must stop.” 

BALKENENDE

Premier Jan Peter Balkenende assumes that, during his Aruba-visit this Friday, the Holloway-case will come up for discussion in his conversation with Premier Nelson Oduber.  He said in the TV-programme EenVandaag that this is the case of the judicial authorities and that he must not get involved.  He pointed out the complexity of the case.  Van der Sloot’s statements are indeed arguable; Daury said that he was not on Aruba when the affaire took place.  Balkenende will be on Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles for five days, starting on Sunday. 

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Thanks you Klaas.

I am trying to catch up.  While scanning this thread ... did I miss an unofficial transcript ... YouTube video ... of tonight's Geraldo Rivera/Mark Furhman show?

Janet

[klaasend]

Janet - I just posted the Youtubes and the transcript from Heli is posted as well a few pages back.

[klaasend]

http://www.peterrdevries.com/news-parents-joran.htm

02 - 10 - 2008 / 8:45 p.m. (G.M.T.)

What's Joran's parents' case?

A few weeks ago, the parents of Joran van der Sloot appeared with me in the Dutch talk show Pauw & Witteman. They asserted that Joran was a boy with a good upbringing, who always treated girls with respect. They also stated that if they had any indication that Joran was indeed involved in the disappearance of Natalee, they would have gone to the police immediately.

- BORDERING ON NAÏVITÉ -

On this occasion, Joran’s mother – who was in the Netherlands at the time of Natalee’s disappearance – gave me the impression of a kind, honest woman, who loves her son dearly, but has no idea about what really made him tick. However, even naïveté has its limits, which I feel she should have reached after watching our program.

Especially in the USA, Joran’s father is seen as someone who knows more about the case than he is willing to let on. He was indeed on Aruba at the time of the disappearance, and later advised his son not to say anything to the police during questioning. According to Joran, his father has devoted himself to filing compensation claims.

In conversations recorded by us, Joran expressly denies that his father was involved in Natalee’s disappearance. However, many see his assertion that on the night in question, his ‘helper’ urged him to ‘get home quickly because he had to go to school the next day’, as an indication that his father could indeed be involved.

- SMUGGLED MOBILE PHONE -

There is also something else that Joran admitted to Patrick in some detail. He said that when visiting him in custody after his initial arrest, his father Paul van der Sloot, who was a Judge at the time, smuggled a mobile phone to his son. The story comes across as highly plausible, and implies an unforgivable transgression by the Judge/attorney.

This story, casually related by Joran, could understandably cast Joran’s parents’ role in a very different light from what they would have liked us to believe during Pauw & Witteman. It is, after all, in their best interests that everything Joran has stated be dismissed as fabrications. Any veracity afforded to Joran’s statements will effectively also ‘hang’ his father for smuggling the mobile phone into the prison. In that case, he would undoubtedly be disbarred as an attorney, with his reputation in Aruba in tatters. Until recently, the parents enjoyed a reasonably respected position on the island. That reputation will be history, should it be verified that Paul van der Sloot deliberately sabotaged the investigation into the disappearance that has caused Aruba so much damage.

- REPORTING TO THE POLICE -

If the parents’ earlier pronouncements were in earnest, one would expect that following our program – during which their son admits his involvement no fewer than ten times – they would confront their son saying: ‘enough is enough. We are going to the police and you will tell them everything that happened. You will not reserve your right to remain silent for another instant.’

This did not occur, however. Instead, Joran issued a statement through his attorney, saying that all his pronouncements were made while under the influence of marijuana joints and that his litany of admissions is a bizarre fabrication. Surely the parents must realize that this is a cheap attempt at a cop-out, that actually also works to the benefit of father Paul. If everything is a fabrication, then so is the story about the mobile phone. Contrarily, if everything is in fact true, it will undoubtedly be assumed that the story about the smuggled mobile phone is true as well, with appropriate consequences.

- NO SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE -

Anyone who has done any thinking, or has themselves smoked marijuana, must surely realize that Joran’s story about the joints just doesn’t hold water. During the course of five separate drives, on different days – sometimes separated by more than a week – Joran made extensive confessions. His confession was confirmed and repeated during each subsequent drive. Not once did he say that last time, while under the influence of marijuana, he had been sprouting a lot of hot air. On the contrary. ‘Coincidentally’, the bulk of his admissions fall perfectly in line with the vein of the earlier police investigation, and in them, Joran provides answers to several open-ended questions (how he got home, what he did with his shoes, the involvement of the Kalpoe brothers etc. etc.).

Furthermore, I have to point out that there were several drives during which he either DID NOT smoke marijuana, or only did so AFTER discussing Natalee’s case. The TV footage shows this quite clearly. He made and/or repeated confessions even while he was ‘as sober as a Judge’. Or does Joran now allege that when Patrick came to pick him up him at around noon, he had already got stoned sitting on his grandma’s sofa?

- CONFESSION COMPULSION? -

But even if he was already stoned – which I don’t believe – the question remains whether he would suddenly start to confess to all manner of bizarre crimes of which he is actually innocent? Or would the parents and grandma now like us to believe that he was in the daily habit of confessing to unsolved murders each time he rolled a reefer??? Of course not. A marijuana joint does not have that effect at all. If it did, the corridors of police stations in the Netherlands and elsewhere would be chock-full of marijuana users, spontaneously confessing to all manner of unsolved crimes. That is, of course, not the case. Joran’s story is untenable. In my opinion It's simply the only excuse he could think of to explain his constant confessions – an explanation that suits his parents just fine. After all, it is now also in their best interests….

Peter R. DeVries

[Tamikosmom]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Geraldo At Large
February 10, 2008

Geraldo:

It was a case as you know we thought had gone ice cold, but now shocking developments last weekend have thrust Natalee Holloway back onto the front page here in the US and around the globe.

Secretly recorded videotape has revealed the young aruban man, long thought to be a suspect, to be a callous and indifferent lowlife. Shocked and outraged, Natalee's mother Beth joins me now, along with Dutch crime reporter, Peter de Vries who caught Joran van der Sloot confessing to a hideous crime.

You know, I don't know whether to give you my condolences or my congratulations with these revelations. How are you taking it? Is it an awful blow? Is it a closure of some sort?

Beth:

Well if I, if I look at, if I take, to, if it's like it's, if I have to look at the not knowing versus the knowing, of course the knowing is difficult, expecially hearing the words coming from Joran's mouth as being, how he's just, gosh he's just a despicable form of a human being anyway and what he's saying, but Geraldo the not knowing is the shear hell and I think that every parent would have that constant daily torture of not knowing what has happened to their child or a loved one, so if I have to (inaudible) of course I'd have to say the knowing is where I find the peace and comfort because this is what I have been wanting all along, is the answers to what happened.

Geraldo:

The Shock of actually seeing him saying those words, when Peter showed you that video, your reaction was visceral? It was emotional? It must be something you will never forget?

Beth:

Well, I wanted to come through the tv and I wanted to kill him and I would have peeled his skin off his face, yes!

Geraldo:

The fact that he said she went into these tremors, this trembling, I remember your saying the Dutch police or the aruban police asked you at the time, when you first arrived in Aruba whether or not she had any kind of ailments or afflictions, epilepsy, things of that nature that would make her tremble, would make her shuddder, that would make her go through those; what did they know then or is it eerie coincidence that he mentions her going through those symptoms?

Beth:

You know we've really tried to be so careful in Natalee's investigation to stick with the known facts and it is a known fact that the only medical question that they did ask us, the only one question as far as medical issues, was does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures and that was within the first 48 hours of her disappearance, so we just have to lay the facts out there and they kind of speak pretty loudly that if we hear that within 48 hours of her disappearance and we take it 2-1/2 years later and I think when I, not only just to hear Joran say this but I even see him imitate her body actions as she's suffering, so I'm thinking you know, it's hard not to put those two things together.

Geraldo:

They must have heard some kind of admission somewhere along the line

Beth:

Yeah, something

Geraldo:

That's the unavoidable conclusion I come to. We'll come back to that point.

Congratulations, it takes one to know one, that was a hell of a job of undercover reporting there. On Friday afternoon in The Netherlands, aruban police again questioned Joran van der Sloot who claimed that everything he told your man, everything he told this Patrick character was because he was stoned, he was wasted on marijuana provided by Patrick, the informant. Your response to Joran saying don't believe my lying mouth because I was stoned at the time.

Peter de Vries:

Yeah well my response is simple, it's the only thing he can say because otherwise he is going right away into jail so he has to say this. It's incredible, it's unbelievable and it's unreliable.

Geraldo:

He said earlier as I recall that he was only conjuring up this fantasy because he wanted to impress the older man, Patrick.

de Vries:

I don't buy that either because nobody on the world is impressed by a story like that; an innocent girl who is dumped into the ocean, you're not going to impress anybody by that, so that's balogna!

Geraldo:

I've come to know this woman and her family very well under very trying circumstances and I am totally in her corner. The fact is though that he didn't quite confess to a homicide, did he?

de Vries:

No, he didn't confess to a homicide but what he did confess and not only once or twice but more than 10 times, that he was at the beach, present when Natalee dies and that he somehow panicked and wanted to get rid of the body and that's very important and of course, we have to find out what happened really is the death cause of Natalee. We have to find out that but the fact that he admits now on tape, that he was there, that's the key.

Geraldo:

His family is now professing to worry that Joran van der Sloot is suicidal. Your comment

Beth:

Ohhhh, it's hard for me to have any sympathy or compassion for that Geraldo, it just really is, I'll be honest, it's just not a concern of mine and you know, I can't

Geraldo:

Are they conjuring it to generate sympathy where none should exist?

Beth:

Of course, well absolutely, I mean I would think that would certainly be something that they would put out there because in the end it's always been about poor Joran. He himself as he's talking with Patrick, he never expresses any true concern for Natalee and even to the point where if you are with a young woman and this is transpiring, your immediate instinct would be to scoop them up and run with them somewhere, even if you're even seeking help from the Marriott, he was close by he could have just picked her body up and just scooped her and take off running with her, there was some medical personnel that would come and seen if something that could have been done

Geraldo:

He could have yelled "Help". He could have said "Help me, somebody help me"

Beth:

Absolutely, he admits that during some of the taped admissions he gives to Patrick that he says that he doesn't know if Natalee is alive or not and of course, no 17 year old boy can determine whether a young female is, or a person, an individual is alive or not , I mean Natalee didn't have, I mean we can never go back to re-capture whether they disposed of her body while she's in a coma or while she's dead, I mean we'll never be able to re-capture that to know whether she could have been benefited from some medical assistance.

Geraldo:

I have to take a break; I have some professional to professional hard questions for Peter about his informant Patrick and his background: what he knew and when he knew it and also whether he believes that everything is as supportable and as corroborated as he suggested on his broadcast. We'll take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back.

Welcome back, I'm with Beth Holloway and Peter de Vries the Dutch investigator who cracked one of the world's most enduring mysteries: what happened to Natalee Holloway, the then 18 year old Alabama highschool graduate who disappeared on the island of Aruba over 2-1/2 years ago.

So Patrick it turns out was coming here, the informant was coming here to the United States. He got stopped at Kennedy and they said 'wait a second, you have a conviction for heroin dealing, you're a drug dealer, you can't come into the country' Did you know about his criminal past?

de Vries:

Yeah, I did know about his criminal past. He told me right away in the beginning so it was no secret. He also told that on Dutch television, everybody knows in Holland and I have to emphasize it were only small convictions, 12, 13 years ago and he's now a well respected businessman in Holland so in my opinion, nothing wrong with him.

Geraldo:

How did he gain Joran's trust? First of all, how did they meet?

de Vries:

Well they met in a casino in Holland and Joran and Patrick like to play poker, they both speak papiamentu the language or Aruba, so they became friends. Patrick pretended that he was not interested in the case, in the disappearance case and he said "Joran, well that's your business, I don't want to know" and that was very important and later on when Joran was released from prison and the case was closed, then he started to ask "well, what happened?" and that's how it started. Then Joran started to talk.

Geraldo:

Did Patrick set the kid up then? Did he have it in his mind to make some money on Joran van der Sloot and seek you out?

de Vries:

No, not at all. He was only convinced that Joran was not telling the truth and nothing but the truth about what happened on the night on the beach.

Geraldo:

What motivated that?

de Vries:

He , what motivated him was that he thought Joran was lying, that he loves Aruba and he's the father of 2 little children, so he could imagine what Beth was going through

Geraldo:

So he was being patriotic in a sense?

de Vries:

yeah, I think you could say that.

Geraldo:

He also got paid almost $40,000.00 US, right?

de Vries:

Yeah, but for a 6 months of work

Geraldo:

I'm not putting it down at all, I believe him totally, I want to be very clear about that

de Vries:

He worked day and night

Geraldo:

Informants generally aren't priests or rabbis, they tend to be people with colourful pasts.

de Vries:

Of course

Geraldo:

And I can see Joran with his own criminal streak looking up to someone who has a little shadiness in the background. He gained his trust, Joran starts talking because no one can make your lips move and say those words if you're not saying them

de Vries:

Exactly

Geraldo:

And again, run that little clip of Joran confessing to what he did, run it now.

(play videotape)

There is Joran explaining his accomplice, this Daury and the advice the alleged accomplice gave to Joran for the next day, to behave normally, go to school Joran, he even says he's going to go to the casino so the surveillance cameras will catch him.

Who do you think really gave him that advice to act normally the next day, go to school and even go to the casino?

Beth:

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Geraldo:

Peter I know this is now verging on speculation but when you hear it in English, it sounds an awful lot like the advice a parent would give a son; also the name of the person you take to the grave isn't some hangout buddy, it's your dad.

Do you think that as a result of your work, the father Paulus van der Sloot is in trouble again?

de Vries:

I don't know if he is in trouble again, I agree with what Beth is saying about this but we do know that Joran told that his father smuggled a cellphone into the prison when he was arrested for the first time and he was a Judge at that time, so that's already unforgivable.

Geraldo:

Do you wnat to make an educated guess on whether Joran will be arrested?

de Vries: Well that's hard to say but he will stand trial, sooner or later

Geraldo:

From one professional to another, well done and darling, I hope this is the beginning of the end, you deserve justice.

Beth:

Thank you Geraldo.

Thanks Klaas.

I should have read on a little further.

Janet