Natalee Case Discussion #728 2/10 - 2/11/08

[Tylergal]

I am new and have been reading the forum about Natalie because your membership has been able to give information  from Aruba and the Netherlands.  Your humor is teriffic..I like your robots very much too.  SOme of you get really down on Joran's mother...did you ever think that she has been abused by Joran?   I am afraid to think what her life is with Paulus Maximus let alone her dear son, Joran.  Did anyone else get the sense that Joran abuses her?   Only further indicates his  sick nature.   I do think we will get the truth.   

Welcome! 

If Joran abuses her it's because she allows it.  Joran has been allowed to get away with bad behaviour all his life IMO and that's probably why we are all here right now.

Welcome forNatalee.

I have a differing opinion on this...I think that Juron is afraid of his mother...just like Paulus is afraid of her...

I think she has been pulling strings and pushing the Sloot agenda from the get go...Anita craves money and power...she is very concious of social standing...and fights and claws her way to the top. anyway she can...I think she is EVIL...

Ditto!  I posted something to that effect about a week ago, a long "dissertation" about how she has neutered the men in her household, she is a yenta who has taken control of the household and has allowed it to become a model for the Woodstock 60s generation.  She is hippie redux.

[Tylergal]

Snipped from Caesu's post:

Many institutions, official bodies, lawyers, journalists, and psychologists are asking themselves how to handle the outpouring of Joran van der Sloot before the hidden camera.   According to law psychologist Albert Wagenaar, there is not even a confession in the revealing reportage.  There is no solving of the case and it is no confession of a criminal act, ’because none is indicated’, said the psychologist.


What is this turdball smoking? Disposing of a human being that may be alive is nor a crime?

is saw another psychiatrist http://www.brambakker.com/
he said on dutch talk tv network Het Gesprek last tuesday something along the lines:

"wether it is a crime or not by law he couldn't say but Joran is sick in his head. he will never recover. should be put away forever in mental hospital. he has no conscience and is self-obsessed."

Psychopath, narcissistic, antisociable.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet:   

Rene Van Nie writes in Dutch so it's easy to translate and some interesting reading. Look at this!

COVER UP!
Of the 10 mails I receive, it certainly talked about an 8 COVER UP.
The people no longer believe. And that's not good for the credibility of our rights system. People are Saturday. They can not imagine that being fair to Aruba. I do not know anymore. But that development is certainly dangerous. Because if there is a 'cover up' is that there are those people responsible for a marked decline in our tourist industry certainly about 20%. Plus, the criminal is what they do.
There is also a very clear theory to my readers tips on the 100 registered in the Netherlands have come after the broadcast within a trace. "On Aruba people do not dare to make a call, they trust it is not" and "they do not believe that something will be done with their tips." And "why did they have to call Netherlands. This is not dangerous and then there are what is done with their tips. "
In short, wrong bunch!

CONCERNED AMERIKANEN HAVE AL FROM THE START OF A COVER UP SPEAK. THAT IS THEIR BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH ARUBA.
AND IF THAT IS NOT SO THAN THE AUTHORITIES TO ARUBA IN ANY CASE VERY VERY MISSPELLED ENTERED TO OUTSIDE. AND STILL DOING THAT.

FROM THE AMIGOE:
Van Cromvoirt is employed at the Visibility Team. His father has a bewakingsbedrijf, VCB, which for a few big hotels. The Public Attorney's Office (OM) has confirmed that the arrest was carried out. Of which he suspected was not disclosed. It would therefore be that he has withheld information, but it could be possible that he has been seen with the girl on the night of her disappearance. Whether the arrest is a result of a tip following the broadcast of Investigation requested, last week, wanted the PPS not confirm.
FROM THE PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Vriendje commissariszoon

The reason why Geoffrey has previously not been arrested, it is whispered in
Oranjestad, is the fact that he is good friends with the son of the
Aruban Police Gerold Dompig.

Dompig was leader of the team that investigates
To the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Dompig Was the second of the research team. He Followed by Jan van der Straten, who retired.

Geoffrey has some problems. He is hyperactive. There is a name for that disease but who am I even lost. This makes it clear why he cries continuously during their interrogations.



http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

Thank you *******.

I have been catching up for the past couple of hours but ... I am wiped and ... ready to hit the sack.  I will read your post tomorrow.

Thank you again for sharing.

Janet

[Tylergal]

Just another example of the huge conflict of interest in Aruba.

Michael Dompig: (Dompigs Son)Told Dave Holloway that PVDS borrowed Koen Gottenbo's boat to dispose of Natalee on 5-31-05. It was reported in the Media he overheard 3 people saying they used a boat to dispose of Natalee. When he was questioned by the ALE his father resigned from the Natalee case as Commissioner.

Buuti Naar: Dompigs Brother In law who implicated the two innocent security guards in the case saying they were in Natalee's room and stealing from the MB kids. Also said he saw Natalee with cocaine. Two flat out lies.

Dinesh Pitbull Djoegan: X Brother In law of Gerald Dompig. He was found on/in Guadirikiri cave on 04/05/2006 -His head was bashed in,legs cut off and set on fire. It was ruled a suicide and many many suspicious events surround his death. He worked for choose-a-name bar as a bouncer that burned down shortly after his death. David Kock slipped in a interview that JK2 stopped at another bar after C&C and it is rumored that it was this bar

K2 Brothers: Are rumored to be Dompigs cousins
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
<snipped>

Thanks *******

Yes ... personal, family and professional conflicts of interests abounded since day one within the Natalee Holloway investigation.  Justice ... that the 18 year old American citizen was entitled to under Dutch law ... never stood a chance.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 6, 2006

COSBY: What do you make of the fact that it‘s so strange that here‘s this guy who‘s his brother-in-law, Gerold Dompig? Isn‘t that weird to you, too, just that strange connection? And the fact—it was interesting. When we were down there, the authorities were sort of, like, Well, we can‘t really focus on him because of, basically, who he‘s connected to.

TWITTY:  … they‘re all very connected on that island. It‘s hard to find someone who‘s not a relative or a cousin

"swimming in the same end of the gene pool."

[Tylergal]

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Freudian slip



P: "Joran shouldn't you be in jail?" "I mean in school."

J: "Laten we geen oude koeien uit de Sloot halen"

funniest thing ever seen on SM imo 

[Tamikosmom]

Geraldo 2/10/08 Beth and Peter

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=178zR_ul7Yw

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OaIMz5Oz9E

Thanks Klaas.

[Tylergal]

I watched it twice.  I wish Greta had employed Mark Furman to go to Aruba in June 2005 or Geraldo, one or the other.  I think we would have more answers and less speculation at this point.

[Tamikosmom]

Finished cathing up!!!

Thank you so much to ALL Monkeys.  I have been reading the posts submitted to the forum today and ... the insights ... quotes ... articles ... links regarding aspects of the Natalee Holloway case is just amazing.  I hope something is forthcoming soon from the judiciary regarding another detention of Joran van der Sloot.

Thanks again ...

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

[klaasend]

Nite Janet

[texasmom]

goodnight everyone!

[NorthernStar]

Yeppers Caesu, I believe time being spent isn't about how to arrest the bastard but how to spin not prosecuting him without making the Dutch system look corrupt.

I agree. I think they are franticly working on a "satisfactory" solution for their little problem. That is how to bring the case before a judge without burning all those involved. Joran isnt their concern, its who and what to sacrifice in the process. It has always been a game of interests, it still is, that wont change. What has changed is the outcome they pursue. Joran will stand trial, there's no avoiding that anymore. Who will go down with his has no become the question.

If there is one thing that has been pervasive throughout this entire investigation it is the Dutch system has no backbone. Zero, zip, nada. It takes an atricious murder like Theo van Gogh for them to get the nerve to even prosecute, and of course he is one of their own elite. Only 28 life sentences given out to convicted murderers in Holland in the last 67 years?

Does an American victim even stand a chance?[/b]

The Dutch system differs from the Anglo-Saxon system in its emphasis on "punishment".

Where in the Anglo-Saxon system punishment (or even revenge) is very much part of the idea of Justice, that aspect has much less weight in the Dutch philosophy.
The Dutch system is much more focused on rehabilitation. How can we "fix" this person and make him/her a productive member of society again. Their is a tendency to avoid long sentences as this hinders the rehabilitation process. People who serve long sentences tend to get used to the prison-culture.

Both systems have their pro's and cons. We do have less recidivism. We don’t have many people in prison, where as the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita. The other side of the medallion is that Dutch often don’t feel justice is being done. How could you when people who commit murder get of with a few years time? For years the Dutch have been asking for more severe sentences and there is some change but it has proven to be a lengthy process. It is however part of the ongoing political discussion in the Netherlands. There are now proposals for mandatory minimum sentences, things like that.

[klaasend]

Nite Texasmom

[Tylergal]

Yeppers Caesu, I believe time being spent isn't about how to arrest the bastard but how to spin not prosecuting him without making the Dutch system look corrupt.

I agree. I think they are franticly working on a "satisfactory" solution for their little problem. That is how to bring the case before a judge without burning all those involved. Joran isnt their concern, its who and what to sacrifice in the process. It has always been a game of interests, it still is, that wont change. What has changed is the outcome they pursue. Joran will stand trial, there's no avoiding that anymore. Who will go down with his has no become the question.

If there is one thing that has been pervasive throughout this entire investigation it is the Dutch system has no backbone. Zero, zip, nada. It takes an atricious murder like Theo van Gogh for them to get the nerve to even prosecute, and of course he is one of their own elite. Only 28 life sentences given out to convicted murderers in Holland in the last 67 years?

Does an American victim even stand a chance?[/b]

The Dutch system differs from the Anglo-Saxon system in its emphasis on "punishment".

Where in the Anglo-Saxon system punishment (or even revenge) is very much part of the idea of Justice, that aspect has much less weight in the Dutch philosophy.
The Dutch system is much more focused on rehabilitation. How can we "fix" this person and make him/her a productive member of society again. Their is a tendency to avoid long sentences as this hinders the rehabilitation process. People who serve long sentences tend to get used to the prison-culture.

Both systems have their pro's and cons. We do have less recidivism. We don’t have many people in prison, where as the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita. The other side of the medallion is that Dutch often don’t feel justice is being done. How could you when people who commit murder get of with a few years time? For years the Dutch have been asking for more severe sentences and there is some change but it has proven to be a lengthy process. It is however part of the ongoing political discussion in the Netherlands. There are now proposals for mandatory minimum sentences, things like that.

I believe I have read or heard on news there has been a public outcry for lengthier sentences following the van Gogh murder, and your system was not very lenient with this guy.  Unfortunately, I hear his family are taunted and bullied constantly.

[caesu]

the following is unrelated at this time but i post this anyway:

The Dutch Royal Family is on vacationing at the moment at their favorite skying resort in Lech, Austria

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3261485/_Koninklijke_familie_in_Lech__.html?p=16,1

from tomorrow both Queen and Prime Minister will be out of the country.

in the (un)likely event of dismissal of the government the Queen would need to travel back to The Hague the accept the PM's resignation and install a care-taker government.

i find De Telegraaf the best newspaper so far.

it is the first and only Dutch newspaper as far as i know who mentioned cover-up on thursday:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3238629/_Verdwijning_Natalee_cover-up_politie__.html?p=2,1
and it is the first and only Dutch newspaper as far as i know who pulled the statement by Aruban OM about the 'witchhunt by the media'
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3252568/_OM_Aruba__Geen_heksenjacht_media__.html

i've got a inclination they i've got more at articles lined up and are waiting for Peter R. to return.

[for natalie]

Night all...thanks for the sharing..............

[klaasend]

Nite for Natalie

[caesu]

Yeppers Caesu, I believe time being spent isn't about how to arrest the bastard but how to spin not prosecuting him without making the Dutch system look corrupt.

I agree. I think they are franticly working on a "satisfactory" solution for their little problem. That is how to bring the case before a judge without burning all those involved. Joran isnt their concern, its who and what to sacrifice in the process. It has always been a game of interests, it still is, that wont change. What has changed is the outcome they pursue. Joran will stand trial, there's no avoiding that anymore. Who will go down with his has no become the question.

If there is one thing that has been pervasive throughout this entire investigation it is the Dutch system has no backbone. Zero, zip, nada. It takes an atricious murder like Theo van Gogh for them to get the nerve to even prosecute, and of course he is one of their own elite. Only 28 life sentences given out to convicted murderers in Holland in the last 67 years?

Does an American victim even stand a chance?[/b]

The Dutch system differs from the Anglo-Saxon system in its emphasis on "punishment".

Where in the Anglo-Saxon system punishment (or even revenge) is very much part of the idea of Justice, that aspect has much less weight in the Dutch philosophy.
The Dutch system is much more focused on rehabilitation. How can we "fix" this person and make him/her a productive member of society again. Their is a tendency to avoid long sentences as this hinders the rehabilitation process. People who serve long sentences tend to get used to the prison-culture.

Both systems have their pro's and cons. We do have less recidivism. We don’t have many people in prison, where as the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita. The other side of the medallion is that Dutch often don’t feel justice is being done. How could you when people who commit murder get of with a few years time? For years the Dutch have been asking for more severe sentences and there is some change but it has proven to be a lengthy process. It is however part of the ongoing political discussion in the Netherlands. There are now proposals for mandatory minimum sentences, things like that.

I believe I have read or heard on news there has been a public outcry for lengthier sentences following the van Gogh murder, and your system was not very lenient with this guy.  Unfortunately, I hear his family are taunted and bullied constantly.

Van Gogh's family taunted and bullied??
where did you hear that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Bouyeri

Life imprisonment

[Tylergal]

Yeppers Caesu, I believe time being spent isn't about how to arrest the bastard but how to spin not prosecuting him without making the Dutch system look corrupt.

I agree. I think they are franticly working on a "satisfactory" solution for their little problem. That is how to bring the case before a judge without burning all those involved. Joran isnt their concern, its who and what to sacrifice in the process. It has always been a game of interests, it still is, that wont change. What has changed is the outcome they pursue. Joran will stand trial, there's no avoiding that anymore. Who will go down with his has no become the question.

If there is one thing that has been pervasive throughout this entire investigation it is the Dutch system has no backbone. Zero, zip, nada. It takes an atricious murder like Theo van Gogh for them to get the nerve to even prosecute, and of course he is one of their own elite. Only 28 life sentences given out to convicted murderers in Holland in the last 67 years?

Does an American victim even stand a chance?[/b]

The Dutch system differs from the Anglo-Saxon system in its emphasis on "punishment".

Where in the Anglo-Saxon system punishment (or even revenge) is very much part of the idea of Justice, that aspect has much less weight in the Dutch philosophy.
The Dutch system is much more focused on rehabilitation. How can we "fix" this person and make him/her a productive member of society again. Their is a tendency to avoid long sentences as this hinders the rehabilitation process. People who serve long sentences tend to get used to the prison-culture.

Both systems have their pro's and cons. We do have less recidivism. We don’t have many people in prison, where as the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita. The other side of the medallion is that Dutch often don’t feel justice is being done. How could you when people who commit murder get of with a few years time? For years the Dutch have been asking for more severe sentences and there is some change but it has proven to be a lengthy process. It is however part of the ongoing political discussion in the Netherlands. There are now proposals for mandatory minimum sentences, things like that.

I believe I have read or heard on news there has been a public outcry for lengthier sentences following the van Gogh murder, and your system was not very lenient with this guy.  Unfortunately, I hear his family are taunted and bullied constantly.

Van Gogh's family taunted and bullied??
where did you hear that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Bouyeri

Life imprisonment

Not sure that I did not read it on line, maybe from an English newspaper or other European paper.  I read extensively on line almost every single night, so it is hard for me to recall, but I think I read someplace the van Gogh family/children were being harassed by those of Muslim orientation.

[caesu]

Yeppers Caesu, I believe time being spent isn't about how to arrest the bastard but how to spin not prosecuting him without making the Dutch system look corrupt.

I agree. I think they are franticly working on a "satisfactory" solution for their little problem. That is how to bring the case before a judge without burning all those involved. Joran isnt their concern, its who and what to sacrifice in the process. It has always been a game of interests, it still is, that wont change. What has changed is the outcome they pursue. Joran will stand trial, there's no avoiding that anymore. Who will go down with his has no become the question.

If there is one thing that has been pervasive throughout this entire investigation it is the Dutch system has no backbone. Zero, zip, nada. It takes an atricious murder like Theo van Gogh for them to get the nerve to even prosecute, and of course he is one of their own elite. Only 28 life sentences given out to convicted murderers in Holland in the last 67 years?

Does an American victim even stand a chance?[/b]

The Dutch system differs from the Anglo-Saxon system in its emphasis on "punishment".

Where in the Anglo-Saxon system punishment (or even revenge) is very much part of the idea of Justice, that aspect has much less weight in the Dutch philosophy.
The Dutch system is much more focused on rehabilitation. How can we "fix" this person and make him/her a productive member of society again. Their is a tendency to avoid long sentences as this hinders the rehabilitation process. People who serve long sentences tend to get used to the prison-culture.

Both systems have their pro's and cons. We do have less recidivism. We don’t have many people in prison, where as the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita. The other side of the medallion is that Dutch often don’t feel justice is being done. How could you when people who commit murder get of with a few years time? For years the Dutch have been asking for more severe sentences and there is some change but it has proven to be a lengthy process. It is however part of the ongoing political discussion in the Netherlands. There are now proposals for mandatory minimum sentences, things like that.

I believe I have read or heard on news there has been a public outcry for lengthier sentences following the van Gogh murder, and your system was not very lenient with this guy.  Unfortunately, I hear his family are taunted and bullied constantly.

Van Gogh's family taunted and bullied??
where did you hear that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Bouyeri

Life imprisonment

On July 26, 2005, Bouyeri received a life sentence without parole.

Life imprisonment is the most severe punishment in the Netherlands and is always without parole. Bouyeri is only the 28th person to receive this punishment since 1945, excluding war criminals. A life sentence is ordinarily seen only with multiple-homicide cases, but a new law introduced in 2004 also makes the sentence applicable for leaders of terrorist organisations. In addition, the Wet terroristische misdrijven ("terrorist crimes law", in effect since August 10, 2004), also states that, if there is a terrorist motive for a crime, the term can be increased by half. Imprisonments ordinarily in excess of 15 years can be upgraded to life imprisonment, as was the case with Bouyeri.

[Observer]

Van Gogh's family taunted and bullied??
where did you hear that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Bouyeri

Life imprisonment
[/quote]
---------------------------
I learned of this crime through another Dutchman and it was absolutely horrendous. I use to think Holland was like America was 20 or 30 years ago but I thought wrong. The world has certainly changed.