Natalee Case Discussion #728 2/10 - 2/11/08

[Observer]

Bah..The Aruban Govt is at it again..They hired a new spokesperson to combat Joran's confession and media coverage

[Tylergal]

governments take advantage of a population in shock or confusion by forcing through major policy changes the population normaly wouldn't agree too.


that's exactly right and that is what I have tried to say on here, that the USA has NO controlling authority over these events.  This is totally up to Netherlands and Aruba.  Natalee was an American citizen and it pains the Americans that we lose even one, but she was not on American soil.  She was on Aruban soil, a former Dutch colon and I am not sure of the relationship at this time as the Arubans would have you believe they are totally autonomous but then when they start citing their law, they say "it is up to the Dutch.  We have no control, blah, blah, blah."

The Dutch are our allies and we cannot overstep our bounds to intervene in what is their case, no more than we would want the Italians to come in and tell us how to prosecute or what to do with Scott Peterson. 

If countries start changing laws and enforcing policy based on emotion and the "plight of the day," then we become a lesser people.  My heart is pained as much as any mother's excepting Beth by what has happened to Natalee, but I don't want to see our laws turned on their heads or Bush become a dictator like Chavez by trying to tell Aruba how to run their country.

The most we could do is offer a hand via the FBI and when that was rejected, our country had no recourse except for the warnings that were already there, warning about travel to Aruba secondary to drugging and human trafficking.

Now I am going to sign off and let all my fellow monkeys bash me for telling the truth, which many do not want to accept.  Having said that, I still love all the Monkeys but sometimes a good civics course would help.

[Tylergal]

I have a feeling this will be a very big week..Everyone say a special prayer for Natalee

Natalee Holloway - Have You Seen Her
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5T9oUoQBbk

Thanks for this.  Wasn't she a beauty!

[Shell]

Bah..The Aruban Govt is at it again..They hired a new spokesperson to combat Joran's confession and media coverage

 

[Observer]

The Persistence will be on the Greta show tomorrow evening John tells me.  Tim spent the day aboard the boat yesterday and so far all is a go! This is great.  They are out today and the dutch news guys I am told are getting sick over the rail.... about 12 foot seas.... John said they are not doing well... I hope this doesn't deter them from helping! L!

[Observer]

Thanks for this.  Wasn't she a beauty!

Yes she is..A beautiful girl on the inside as well!

[Bearlyhere]

Justice interrogates Joran  

While he was secretly being recorded in conversation with ‘informant’ Patrick van der Eem, he was under the influence of marihuana, said Joran van der Sloot in the interrogation with Justice.

<snipped>

ORANJESTAD -- Joran van der Sloot declared that the conversations in Patrick van der Eem’s car, were carried on under influence of marihuana.  He said this at a police station in Rotterdam, where he was voluntarily interrogated yesterday morning. 

Detectives of the Aruban police and of the Corps national police service (KLPD) and his Dutch lawyer were present at the interrogation that lasted about two hours, said the Public Prosecutor (OM).

Other than that, Van der Sloot stuck to all his prior declarations in the investigation. He denies having anything to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, said the OM.  He could leave after the interrogation.  The examining magistrate decided on February 5 that Joran van der Sloot is not to be detained.  The OM has appealed that decision and expects a verdict from the Common Court of Justice.     

The OM has called on the media in a press release not to launch a witch hunt around the Holloway-case and to abstain from investigations of their own.  “The interest for this case seems to degenerate into a witch hunt, whereby several people are being menaced in an intimidated manner”, is the opinion of justice.  To the OM, these practices are ‘unacceptable’.  People are being marked as suspects without any confirmation and menaced as such with all its consequences.  Besides, other than causing big unrest, journalistic investigations harm the criminal investigation, said justice.  “Without wanting to harm the value of free press coverage, justice would like the media to be reserved, exactly for the above reasons.” 

The OM mentioned as an example the media hunt on an accomplice that Van der Sloot mentioned.  After this person (Daury Rodriguez) had declared that he has nothing to do with the case, all eyes focused on a next person (Lorenzo van Rijn). 

“The cameras were all around his house”, informed district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “He had to take on a lawyer for the contact with us.”

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot.  The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, [/b] was the reaction of the OM. 

Many institutions, official bodies, lawyers, journalists, and psychologists are asking themselves how to handle the outpouring of Joran van der Sloot before the hidden camera.   According to law psychologist Albert Wagenaar, there is not even a confession in the revealing reportage.  There is no solving of the case and it is no confession of a criminal act, ’because none is indicated’, said the psychologist.

The ombudsman of NOS, Tom van Bussel is of the opinion that the NOS should have been more reserved in reporting Peter R. de Vries’ claim that he had solved the Holloway disappearance-case.  After the coverage of SBS6 on Sunday evening it appeared that De Vries’ promise is not fulfilled.  “What we know now is that Joran is a confused guy.  Like a source of the OM phrased it: ‘We thought that we would get a solution, but what we got was another of the so-many stories”, states the ombudsman on his NOS-website. 

At this moment, the Dutch Council for Journalism doesn’t want to say whether certain publications in the Joran van der Sloot-case have crossed the borders of careful journalism. 

Nevertheless, top executive of the Dutch OM, Harm Brouwer praises De Vries for his coverage.  The chairman of the college of procurator-general said in an interview in Trouw last Friday that De Vries has delivered good journalistic work.  “The criticism from media circles on De Vries is pretty hypocritical”, said Brouwer.  “What he did is a logical continuation on a trend that is going on for years.  He is in many respects a journalistic professional.”

Brouwer wants a social debate on citizens that are actively involved in tracing activities.  That is just a detail.  The point is, where private investigation must start and where it must stop.” 

BALKENENDE

Premier Jan Peter Balkenende assumes that, during his Aruba-visit this Friday, the Holloway-case will come up for discussion in his conversation with Premier Nelson Oduber.  He said in the TV-programme EenVandaag that this is the case of the judicial authorities and that he must not get involved.  He pointed out the complexity of the case.  Van der Sloot’s statements are indeed arguable; Daury said that he was not on Aruba when the affaire took place.  Balkenende will be on Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles for five days, starting on Sunday. 

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Thanks you Klaas.

I am trying to catch up.  While scanning this thread ... did I miss an unofficial transcript ... YouTube video ... of tonight's Geraldo Rivera/Mark Furhman show?

Janet

Interesting choice of words.  He didn't say was not convicted of a crime, he said was not convicted yet.

[caesu]

Brought this link over from the front page of sm. (hope it hasn't been posted here yet.) http://www.peterrdevries.com/news-parents-joran.htm
 Devries speaks his mind about Joran"s Parent"s

this is the first time Peter R. has put a translated column on his english site.
before only on the dutch site he put his columns.

Peter R. did put on both sites the news stories.

reason for this is because Peter R. is coming today back The Netherlands.
i think from now on all columns of Peter R. will be put on both sites.

[Altruist]

is saw another psychiatrist http://www.brambakker.com/
he said on dutch talk tv network Het Gesprek last tuesday something along the lines:

"wether it is a crime or not by law he couldn't say but Joran is sick in his head. he will never recover. should be put away forever in mental hospital. he has no conscience and is self-obsessed."

Standing Ovation for the ABOVE PSYCHOLOGICAL OBSERVATION / PROFESSIONAL OPINION
BASED ON VIDEO OF JVDSTOOLSCUM, SERIOUS PERSONALITY DISORDER THAT IS INCURABLE/UNTREATABLE!!!!!!

[NorthernStar]

is saw another psychiatrist http://www.brambakker.com/
he said on dutch talk tv network Het Gesprek last tuesday something along the lines:

"wether it is a crime or not by law he couldn't say but Joran is sick in his head. he will never recover. should be put away forever in mental hospital. he has no conscience and is self-obsessed."

Standing Ovation for the ABOVE PSYCHOLOGICAL OBSERVATION / PROFESSIONAL OPINION
BASED ON VIDEO OF JVDSTOOLSCUM, SERIOUS PERSONALITY DISORDER THAT IS INCURABLE/UNTREATABLE!!!!!!

That might even give the authorities a way out. If they cant nail him for murder, only "lesser" crimes like lets say making a body disappear, they could go for TBS. Thats forced admission to a forensic psychiatric hospital. TBS literal means you are being turned over to the state. You are no longer considered able to make your own decisions.

Once in there, he could be there indefinitely. Believe me, that would be way worse for Joran then being convicted for murder.

[MumInOhio]

is saw another psychiatrist http://www.brambakker.com/
he said on dutch talk tv network Het Gesprek last tuesday something along the lines:

"wether it is a crime or not by law he couldn't say but Joran is sick in his head. he will never recover. should be put away forever in mental hospital. he has no conscience and is self-obsessed."

Standing Ovation for the ABOVE PSYCHOLOGICAL OBSERVATION / PROFESSIONAL OPINION
BASED ON VIDEO OF JVDSTOOLSCUM, SERIOUS PERSONALITY DISORDER THAT IS INCURABLE/UNTREATABLE!!!!!!

That might even give the authorities a way out. If they cant nail him for murder, only "lesser" crimes like lets say making a body disappear, they could go for TBS. Thats forced admission to a forensic psychiatric hospital. TBS literal means you are being turned over to the state. You are no longer considered able to make your own decisions.

Once in there, he could be there indefinitely. Believe me, that would be way worse for Joran then being convicted for murder.

Good Morning.....NorthernStar...I had read something to that effect before...Thank you for reminding me.

Have you by chance read Joran's book? TIA

[crazybabyborg]

governments take advantage of a population in shock or confusion by forcing through major policy changes the population normaly wouldn't agree too.


that's exactly right and that is what I have tried to say on here, that the USA has NO controlling authority over these events.  This is totally up to Netherlands and Aruba.  Natalee was an American citizen and it pains the Americans that we lose even one, but she was not on American soil.  She was on Aruban soil, a former Dutch colon and I am not sure of the relationship at this time as the Arubans would have you believe they are totally autonomous but then when they start citing their law, they say "it is up to the Dutch.  We have no control, blah, blah, blah."

The Dutch are our allies and we cannot overstep our bounds to intervene in what is their case, no more than we would want the Italians to come in and tell us how to prosecute or what to do with Scott Peterson. 

If countries start changing laws and enforcing policy based on emotion and the "plight of the day," then we become a lesser people.  My heart is pained as much as any mother's excepting Beth by what has happened to Natalee, but I don't want to see our laws turned on their heads or Bush become a dictator like Chavez by trying to tell Aruba how to run their country.

The most we could do is offer a hand via the FBI and when that was rejected, our country had no recourse except for the warnings that were already there, warning about travel to Aruba secondary to drugging and human trafficking.

Now I am going to sign off and let all my fellow monkeys bash me for telling the truth, which many do not want to accept.  Having said that, I still love all the Monkeys but sometimes a good civics course would help.

Well said, Tyler. I quoted it because it's worth repeating. I wouldn't expect bashing, it's just a statement of truth..........an eloquent one at that! 

[blah]

Deepak confessed on video and they just threw it aside as if it was nothing and now Joran has done the same thing.

Its starting to look like they will just toss this confession aside as well.

These punks are untouchable and remain free to kill again. 

This is so sickening.

[cubbeegirl]

Deepak confessed on video and they just threw it aside as if it was nothing and now Joran has done the same thing.

Its starting to look like they will just toss this confession aside as well.

These punks are untouchable and remain free to kill again. 

This is so sickening.

Yes, and the crimes will only become bigger.....
It is an abomination....

[MumInOhio]

Any one else like to see a side by side of that artist's sketch and a pic of Val at 15?

[sharon]

PI,

July 06, 2005 at 12:50 AM

I just thought we needed to clarify that and also that Paul and Beth currently have different feelings towards Aruba.

I stand by Beth and Natalee

Yes.

I stand by Beth and Natalee.


Happy Monday morning Monkeys. Every day this week will take us one step closer to Justice for Natalee.

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS UPON IT. IT DOES.

[Frijole]

Yes!  Another day closer to justice.

Update on the case discussion on the Husker football site - every one of them say Joran did it.  These people don't have nearly the insite we do and most of their opinion is from the ABC showing last week. 

What struck me as most interesting is that they are talking corruption!  They are saying it was a date rate drug, a rape and there is an obvious cover up. I see this as progress. The point is getting across mainstream America.

Keep it going.  God bless the crew of the Persistence and Natalee's family.

I stand with the girl - I stand with Natalee.

[dennisintn]

governments take advantage of a population in shock or confusion by forcing through major policy changes the population normaly wouldn't agree too.


that's exactly right and that is what I have tried to say on here, that the USA has NO controlling authority over these events.  This is totally up to Netherlands and Aruba.  Natalee was an American citizen and it pains the Americans that we lose even one, but she was not on American soil.  She was on Aruban soil, a former Dutch colon and I am not sure of the relationship at this time as the Arubans would have you believe they are totally autonomous but then when they start citing their law, they say "it is up to the Dutch.  We have no control, blah, blah, blah."

The Dutch are our allies and we cannot overstep our bounds to intervene in what is their case, no more than we would want the Italians to come in and tell us how to prosecute or what to do with Scott Peterson. 

If countries start changing laws and enforcing policy based on emotion and the "plight of the day," then we become a lesser people.  My heart is pained as much as any mother's excepting Beth by what has happened to Natalee, but I don't want to see our laws turned on their heads or Bush become a dictator like Chavez by trying to tell Aruba how to run their country.

The most we could do is offer a hand via the FBI and when that was rejected, our country had no recourse except for the warnings that were already there, warning about travel to Aruba secondary to drugging and human trafficking.

Now I am going to sign off and let all my fellow monkeys bash me for telling the truth, which many do not want to accept.  Having said that, I still love all the Monkeys but sometimes a good civics course would help.

so the best idea is just don't expose yourself to a country that is out of control and dangerous.  you wouldn't put your hand in a hole that somebody just saw a rattlesnake go into, aruba, in it's present form, is the same.
dennisintn

[sharon]

I have no idea what they are saying but you have to watch this, LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGszbTAxbu4

omigod 

Thanks for that. You almost don't really have to understand Dutch to get this one 

[martini]

Let's talk about surgery, maybe a surgeon can remove Joran's brain and replace it with a junior mint~