Natalee Case Discussion #728 2/10 - 2/11/08

[Bladerunner]

[Frank]

Klaas, Red, anyone?

...heard from Jossy?

[ala_gunslinger]

A rare white stag, believed to be the only one in Britain, has been photographed on the Scottish Highlands.
As legend has it, it is

The President has asked European airlines to immediately put air marshalls on them and Chertoff is warning of something serious about to take place.   

In other words....

Lock n Load people.

[Destiny]

A rare white stag, believed to be the only one in Britain, has been photographed on the Scottish Highlands.
As legend has it, it is a sign a mammoth event is about to occur.

Martini...thanks for posting this...I'm one of those folks that believe in *signs*...let's hope that the white stag has his sharp antlers aimed at Joran...tee hee hee

[MumInOhio]

From Deepak's 6/13 PV...sound familiar....This was back at the HI the night the family arrived.

The whole process of looking and talking lasted to approximately 05.45 hours. Joran's father had then said that Joran needed to go to school and the police also that shouldn't happen like that and that the family members should go to the police and file a missing persons report. Joran and me got back into the police car.

[Tylergal]

That is so beautiful!!!!!

[Bladerunner]

More from the Professor:

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/080211-holloway-legal-sloot

Is psychology playing an increasingly larger role in legal cases? That was the question being asked at a seminar at Utrecht University last week following the confession by Joran van der Sloot in the case of the missing American teenager Natalee Holloway. The hidden camera footage of his "confession" was broadcast to a record seven million Dutch viewers in a commercial television programme by crime reporter Peter R. de Vries.

Professor Willem Albert Wagenaar takes the floor - Thursday's seminar attracted great media interest
At the seminar, both legal psychologist Willem Albert Wagenaar and professor of criminal law Chrisje Brants particularly criticised the methods used by Mr De Vries.
"Solved"

Willem Albert Wagenaar said he thinks the crime reporter, who claimed to have "solved the case"  was too quick to draw conclusions. In particular, because "it is not even a confession".

Above all else, actually broadcasting the footage has made it more difficult to secure a conviction. If Mr de Vries had given the material to the Public Prosecution Office straight away, it would be holding all the trumps, as investigators would be able to question Joran van der Sloot on information "that only the person responsible for Natalee's disappearance could know. Now everyone knows".



"Madman"
Another point of criticism by Mr Wagenaar is that, in spite of claims by Peter R. de Vries that Joran van der Sloot would have to be a madman to say the things he did, there are people who lie about a statement.

Mr Wagenaar said it's not as simple as it seems. He described a number of situations in which people confess to crimes they have not committed. "Some people read an article in a newspaper and then say: I did it," to attract attention.

He also pointed out people admit to crimes to protect certain people. And then there are those who confess because of pressure from others. "They just crack," said Wagenaar. They even start believing their own lies.

One thing is certain according to Mr Wagenaar, "The case has absolutely not been solved." The idea that the footage is a confession to a crime is also premature, as it's not even been established that a crime has been committed.

Judge and Jury
There is something the Public Prosecution can do with the confession, said the second speaker of the day, professor Chrisje Brants. The Aruban authorities can follow up new trails of investigation. The footage itself would not lead to an arrest, because there is no evidence to detain him on. She mainly criticised the way in which the programme did more damage than good.

"Combating, investigating and prosecuting crime is a matter for the authorities," said Professor Brants. "But in his programme Peter R. de Vries is both judge and jury."

Public interest
Chrisje Brants finished off by defining the role played by public interest. Because the case has been discussed so widely in the media, a broad audience is very interested in it. The question is why has it become so important.

Ms Brants pointed out that certain information should be confined to the criminal proceedings and should not be allowed out into the public arena. "What's in the public interest is not the same as what the public believe is interesting."
* RNW translation (nc)




Read this carefully, these are the "legal minds" of the country, yet, what amazed me is their full faith and belief in a system that is obviously corrupt and nonfunctioning.

[Bladerunner]

That is so beautiful!!!!!

The video is cool!

[MumInOhio]

Lala's......

"G.V.C. is suspected of criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance of Miss Holloway and of offenses related to dealing in illegal narcotics," the prosecutor's office said in a statement.

http://crime.about.com/b/2006/04/19/judge-orders-teen-held-in-holloway-case.htm

[blah]

More from the Professor:

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/080211-holloway-legal-sloot

Is psychology playing an increasingly larger role in legal cases? That was the question being asked at a seminar at Utrecht University last week following the confession by Joran van der Sloot in the case of the missing American teenager Natalee Holloway. The hidden camera footage of his "confession" was broadcast to a record seven million Dutch viewers in a commercial television programme by crime reporter Peter R. de Vries.

Professor Willem Albert Wagenaar takes the floor - Thursday's seminar attracted great media interest
At the seminar, both legal psychologist Willem Albert Wagenaar and professor of criminal law Chrisje Brants particularly criticised the methods used by Mr De Vries.
"Solved"

Willem Albert Wagenaar said he thinks the crime reporter, who claimed to have "solved the case"  was too quick to draw conclusions. In particular, because "it is not even a confession".

Above all else, actually broadcasting the footage has made it more difficult to secure a conviction. If Mr de Vries had given the material to the Public Prosecution Office straight away, it would be holding all the trumps, as investigators would be able to question Joran van der Sloot on information "that only the person responsible for Natalee's disappearance could know. Now everyone knows".



"Madman"
Another point of criticism by Mr Wagenaar is that, in spite of claims by Peter R. de Vries that Joran van der Sloot would have to be a madman to say the things he did, there are people who lie about a statement.

Mr Wagenaar said it's not as simple as it seems. He described a number of situations in which people confess to crimes they have not committed. "Some people read an article in a newspaper and then say: I did it," to attract attention.

He also pointed out people admit to crimes to protect certain people. And then there are those who confess because of pressure from others. "They just crack," said Wagenaar. They even start believing their own lies.

One thing is certain according to Mr Wagenaar, "The case has absolutely not been solved." The idea that the footage is a confession to a crime is also premature, as it's not even been established that a crime has been committed.

Judge and Jury
There is something the Public Prosecution can do with the confession, said the second speaker of the day, professor Chrisje Brants. The Aruban authorities can follow up new trails of investigation. The footage itself would not lead to an arrest, because there is no evidence to detain him on. She mainly criticised the way in which the programme did more damage than good.

"Combating, investigating and prosecuting crime is a matter for the authorities," said Professor Brants. "But in his programme Peter R. de Vries is both judge and jury."

Public interest
Chrisje Brants finished off by defining the role played by public interest. Because the case has been discussed so widely in the media, a broad audience is very interested in it. The question is why has it become so important.

Ms Brants pointed out that certain information should be confined to the criminal proceedings and should not be allowed out into the public arena. "What's in the public interest is not the same as what the public believe is interesting."
* RNW translation (nc)




Read this carefully, these are the "legal minds" of the country, yet, what amazed me is their full faith and belief in a system that is obviously corrupt and nonfunctioning.

The person who made these comments is an idiot.  He obviously has no credibility.

[klaasend]

Klaas.....when you are not too busy could you please put the pic of Arthur Santos - the one with the absinthe bottle - sis by side with the artist's sketch...TIA

Per your request 

[Lala'sMom]

Tylergal
Are you saying that GVC is the one that received the phone call that got him so nervous per the girl that was his date at the time and it took them that long to even bother with the information?  Well, that figures! 

[Lala'sMom]

Lala's......

"G.V.C. is suspected of criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance of Miss Holloway and of offenses related to dealing in illegal narcotics," the prosecutor's office said in a statement.

http://crime.about.com/b/2006/04/19/judge-orders-teen-held-in-holloway-case.htm

So....was he arrested or just questioned?  What kind of criminal offenses?  Supplying the date rape drug?  Selling her drugs?  What?  Was he arrested?

[Lala'sMom]

Klaas.....when you are not too busy could you please put the pic of Arthur Santos - the one with the absinthe bottle - sis by side with the artist's sketch...TIA

Per your request 

Thanks for asking for this Mum...hmmmmm.

[Lala'sMom]

From Andre's PV:After Joran helped the girl, Joran and I walked around in the Excelsior casino. I saw the group of girls who were playing blackjack with Joran walk by, and I heard the girls say he should go to Carlos & Charlies later in the evening because they would like to meet him there. Joran told them not to worry, he would go.

Does anyone remember what time the casino video shows the girls leaving the table? Is it even in the video...likely not because then we would have seen that older man get up from the table and would be able to identify him.

[Destiny]

This my fine, fine Monkeys...is the calm before the storm...buckle up...I think it's gonna be a rough ride...

[Bladerunner]

"The person who made these comments is an idiot.  He obviously has no credibility."


LOL, that's the problem, he does have credibility, as he is seen as a leading international expert on witness reliability!

Obviously, he doesn't know jack shit about this case.

[martini]

Did Joran kill his dog?

[MumInOhio]

Thanks Klaas...there are not a lot of ears like that in the pics we have...man I'm going to be glued to that for hours...you're a gem Klaas...

[klaasend]

Did Joran kill his dog?

We were told early in the case by some Aruban posters that he did indeed kill his dog.  Right now I believe the Sloots have 2 dogs.  I have no idea the name of the dog that was killed and I don't know if it was "choller".