Natalee Case Discussion #728 2/10 - 2/11/08

[MumInOhio]

Klaas.....when you are not too busy could you please put the pic of Arthur Santos - the one with the absinthe bottle - sis by side with the artist's sketch...TIA

Per your request 

Klaas...what do you think?

I can't even remember what was said happened in the 'Haunting' show. Did she say this is the guy that hit Natalee?

Do you know where I can find a link for that?....Thanks again....

The show Youtubes are in this front page post.  I can't watch them right now because I'm working but here's the link:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/court-tvs-haunting-evidence-the-natalee-holloway-investigation/

Spitting image - right down to the little hair sprout on the top of his head!

Thank you...Miss Scarlet....that is what I thought, but I'm really not very good with pics.


Bill O'Reilly has that body language woman commenting on Joran in the car tonight...not sure how long it will be and most times I catch it, it is towards the end. Fox..9PM..EST

[Nut44x4]

Arthur is mentioned in Andres PV

On Monday, May 30 2005, in the morning hours, my mother wakened me because I had to leave to take my examination. I must say that my sister "Alessandra" and my younger brother "Arthur" went with me in my father’s pick-up to school.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=310.0

[imnoangel]

i think it was very good of peterdevries to bring this footage under the public eye.
now joran cannot live comfortably in arnhem anymore, it keeps the pressure on the lid.
if joran the "schaakmeester, iedereen altijd een stap voor" (master of chess, always one step in front of others, as is jorans msn name)gets under pressure without inside info like before (via attorney and dad) there is no telling what he will do.
interesting.

[MumInOhio]

One more interesting one from the PVs....

How the heck did Paulus know Joran’s phone would be bugged on May 31st by the FBI. Van der Straten said he picked up one FBI guy from the airport…may have been June 1st, but I think the 2nd…would have to find the article.

Joran 6/14 PV
At approximately 20.00 pm, I was picked up by my father at the Raquet Club. Then we drove home. On Tuesday May 31st 2005, I think I only had contact with Deepak over the phone. I had called Deepak in the evening to tell him that my father had said that our phones would most likely be monitored by the FBI and that the FBI would be able to read our "Chat" conversations. I think that Deepak said it was OK. I ...snipped

Thanks Nut...I remember....just read that last week...LOL

[Blakerin]

Klaas, did you link your JibJabs for the new posters?

Aruban can can

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/680506

The Hula Sloots

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/342564

The Kalpoes Charlston

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/339850

Joran & Guido

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/325958

 

ROTFL!   

I laugh everytime I see those....they are all funny, but for some reason the hula one totally cracks me up!!!!

Oh My goodness! Those are hysterical.

[MumInOhio]

*******... I left you a post in the car thread....I can't find a blue jeep....

[Kiwi]

 

By law, unless someone is legally pronounced dead, they are alive. The extenuating circumstances in this case is the fact that Joran readily admitted she could have been alive, and he and the not named accomplice are the only witnesses, so considering all facts, I would think the verdict would say yes she was alive. Also considering the fact that it was due to Jorans intentional violation of the law and his wilful act to dispose of the body that an autopsy cannot be performed to establish that she was indeed dead, it is no ones fault but his that he can't be given the benefit of the doubt, and she was by law alive when they dumped her into the ocean. The last time I checked that was murder and he confessed.

And yes, nuts often confess to crimes they didn't committ. But in this case he was the last to be seen with her and he confessed to the crime, and most nuts who falsely confess aren't in those shoes. The criminal psychologists need to read up on their healthcare law before flapping their educated but in this instance ignorant lips and making pronouncements. Healthcare law must be considered to determine if the victim was murdered, alive when drowned, or simply a body that was illegally disposed, and dead when dumped. MO
[/quote]Boy do I agree with this. It should be the exact point the prosecutor should be using. Plus Jorans only defense would be to present the clean-up crew to verify his contention. Still they are not experts to determine her status. But we know for sure dumping someone, injured out to sea is not going to be alive now.

[klaasend]

Just saw Peter R. the Vries on "de wereld draait door".
He said he had expected to hear something from Aruba by now, and he also mentioned he and his team got between 3500 and 5000 tips after Jorans "confession" got on tv. Some tips seem to be very usefull he said, and he will make a folow-up,he's continuing his research.
Peter also repeated the fact that he thinks the parents of Joran reacted strange to the
confession tapes, strange as in not how responsible parents would react.
Peter was to promote his new book on the show, but they ran short of time, so he was quite pissed about that.

I've been looking for any press release or judges decision out of Aruba today and haven't seen anything yet. 

Great news about the tips!

[AZSunny]

Destiny,

As I remember it, Joran was said to have killed his dog a year or more before Natalee went missing.  It wasn't the day before as stated. 

[Destiny]

Destiny,

As I remember it, Joran was said to have killed his dog a year or more before Natalee went missing.  It wasn't the day before as stated. 

Thanks AZ..I had also thought the dog's body had been trown in the scummy pond nearby.

KLAAS...didn't want to waste bandwidth...but, those 2 pics you posted, one being the psychic's sketch.. . can we blow up the eye area of the real photo...it does look a bit *wonky* to me LOL

[KarmaRoundUp]

Right, and now back to work!

By PETER R. FREEZE

[ WEB-UNWIELDLY PETER R. FREEZES ] with an appearance on show of television veteran Geraldo the Amerika-tour this week end.

This week in which I have got a nice insight, have been in how the American television world works. There is much clean appearance. Then I at the request of the New York post Beth Holloway, Geraldo and and what other photographers made on the street wandelingetje, Geraldo hissed us, however, to three times during flashing: ‘Don't smile, don't smile’. And itself drew he as from that moment face of a undertaker. At this way’n serious matter none relaxed photograph in the newspaper can. That is no good publicity.


What me also clear became is that the real age of many announcers is best keep secret of the studio. A couple time one called very surprises to me: , hé, you are much younger than I thought... you sees exact this way as on the photograph’s.’’


I firstly understood that not. Natural seeing I this way as on the photograph’s! But when I met the American announcerannouncer announcers, the coin droppedl: they are sometimes as much as fifteen years older then their publicity photograph’s do suspect.


ABC abc-peronality Diane Sawyer is probable already granny, but considers on the photograph’s and in the studio under three thick layers schmink-plamuurschmink-plamuur schmink-plamuur (make-up) and under good lighting as a fit fourties (40 years old). And of Nancy Grace I thought on the basis of the photograph’s: Mmm... nice thing, however. But when I met her in the studio I thought firstly that I was presented to its mother.


What me also surprised is that the announcers scatter very generous with compliments in their show. A couple time in several programme’s  has been said that one ‘is’ jealous on these scoop and that them that complete gladly itself would have wanted make.


That does not happen in the Netherlands. Yes, if them you must persuade come, but if the prerecordings start, they drink rapidly a glass vinegar and then the interview starts.  (meaning in holland they want say they are jealous)


Don't get me wrong, I do not complain. I only determine it and I will make myself myself also guilty to this.


Right, and now back to work!

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/peterrdevries/article2040926.ece

just a bit of a rant by Peter R. about the hype, people acting fake and all that!

Hahaha....Peter has a great sense of humor.

[BUCKSHOT]

Jossy is playing both sides of the fence.

While his intentions are good, his hands are obviously tied.

People, and animals, do not shit where they eat.

Arubans locals are probably afraid to provide useful tips to solve this crime, for fear of retaliation against themselves. Look what other tipsters have endured...

[justinsmama]

Destiny,

As I remember it, Joran was said to have killed his dog a year or more before Natalee went missing.  It wasn't the day before as stated. 

Hiya, AZ!

Or was it another kid's dog? Heck, with Joran, maybe both.

[Bladerunner]

More from the Professor:

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/080211-holloway-legal-sloot

Is psychology playing an increasingly larger role in legal cases? That was the question being asked at a seminar at Utrecht University last week following the confession by Joran van der Sloot in the case of the missing American teenager Natalee Holloway. The hidden camera footage of his "confession" was broadcast to a record seven million Dutch viewers in a commercial television programme by crime reporter Peter R. de Vries.

Professor Willem Albert Wagenaar takes the floor - Thursday's seminar attracted great media interest
At the seminar, both legal psychologist Willem Albert Wagenaar and professor of criminal law Chrisje Brants particularly criticised the methods used by Mr De Vries.
"Solved"

Willem Albert Wagenaar said he thinks the crime reporter, who claimed to have "solved the case"  was too quick to draw conclusions. In particular, because "it is not even a confession".

Above all else, actually broadcasting the footage has made it more difficult to secure a conviction. If Mr de Vries had given the material to the Public Prosecution Office straight away, it would be holding all the trumps, as investigators would be able to question Joran van der Sloot on information "that only the person responsible for Natalee's disappearance could know. Now everyone knows".



"Madman"
Another point of criticism by Mr Wagenaar is that, in spite of claims by Peter R. de Vries that Joran van der Sloot would have to be a madman to say the things he did, there are people who lie about a statement.

Mr Wagenaar said it's not as simple as it seems. He described a number of situations in which people confess to crimes they have not committed. "Some people read an article in a newspaper and then say: I did it," to attract attention.

He also pointed out people admit to crimes to protect certain people. And then there are those who confess because of pressure from others. "They just crack," said Wagenaar. They even start believing their own lies.

One thing is certain according to Mr Wagenaar, "The case has absolutely not been solved." The idea that the footage is a confession to a crime is also premature, as it's not even been established that a crime has been committed.

Judge and Jury
There is something the Public Prosecution can do with the confession, said the second speaker of the day, professor Chrisje Brants. The Aruban authorities can follow up new trails of investigation. The footage itself would not lead to an arrest, because there is no evidence to detain him on. She mainly criticised the way in which the programme did more damage than good.

"Combating, investigating and prosecuting crime is a matter for the authorities," said Professor Brants. "But in his programme Peter R. de Vries is both judge and jury."

Public interest
Chrisje Brants finished off by defining the role played by public interest. Because the case has been discussed so widely in the media, a broad audience is very interested in it. The question is why has it become so important.

Ms Brants pointed out that certain information should be confined to the criminal proceedings and should not be allowed out into the public arena. "What's in the public interest is not the same as what the public believe is interesting."
* RNW translation (nc)




Read this carefully, these are the "legal minds" of the country, yet, what amazed me is their full faith and belief in a system that is obviously corrupt and nonfunctioning.

By law, unless someone is legally pronounced dead, they are alive. The extenuating circumstances in this case is the fact that Joran readily admitted she could have been alive, and he and the not named accomplice are the only witnesses, so considering all facts, I would think the verdict would say yes she was alive. Also considering the fact that it was due to Jorans intentional violation of the law and his wilful act to dispose of the body that an autopsy cannot be performed to establish that she was indeed dead, it is no ones fault but his that he can't be given the benefit of the doubt, and she was by law alive when they dumped her into the ocean. The last time I checked that was murder and he confessed.

And yes, nuts often confess to crimes they didn't committ. But in this case he was the last to be seen with her and he confessed to the crime, and most nuts who falsely confess aren't in those shoes. The criminal psychologists need to read up on their healthcare law before flapping their educated but in this instance ignorant lips and making pronouncements. Healthcare law must be considered to determine if the victim was murdered, alive when drowned, or simply a body that was illegally disposed, and dead when dumped. MO

Well said.

[caesu]

another thing that makes me very angry.

why did the KLPD/OM pull Opsporing Verzocht (Most Wanted) of the site??
Natalee was broadcasted april 11 2006 in The Netherlands and Aruba.
they did screw that up too by portraing Joran as a darker skinned kid.

http://www.avro.nl/tv/programmas%5Fa%2Dz/opsporing%5Fverzocht/archief/result.aspx?provincie=internationaal

some cases get resolved after years and years by a golden tip.

they don't even try to pretend anymore that they give a damn.

i called them up.

you want to know what the guy said?
"if it is not on the site, there has never been a program about it"
i should have taped it, i might call again - see if they come up with the same lie.
i confronted him with the facts. then he said i should call AVRO (the broadcaster).
i said: "shouldn't you be doing that for me?"
he said: "mmm....okay"

i wish i made this up.

[Nut44x4]

One more interesting one from the PVs....

How the heck did Paulus know Joran’s phone would be bugged on May 31st by the FBI. Van der Straten said he picked up one FBI guy from the airport…may have been June 1st, but I think the 2nd…would have to find the article.

Joran 6/14 PV
At approximately 20.00 pm, I was picked up by my father at the Raquet Club. Then we drove home. On Tuesday May 31st 2005, I think I only had contact with Deepak over the phone. I had called Deepak in the evening to tell him that my father had said that our phones would most likely be monitored by the FBI and that the FBI would be able to read our "Chat" conversations. I think that Deepak said it was OK. I ...snipped

Thanks Nut...I remember....just read that last week...LOL

MUM ....stop laughing at me!! LMAO! hehehe 

[bleachedblack]

Jossy is playing both sides of the fence.

While his intentions are good, his hands are obviously tied.

People, and animals, do not shit where they eat.

Arubans locals are probably afraid to provide useful tips to solve this crime, for fear of retaliation against themselves. Look what other tipsters have endured...

"People, and animals, do not shit where they eat."

Sounds like a quote from Dutchlady.....sure wish she would come back and give her insight......

[Kiwi]

Private eye- Sorry I cut too much out, but I was commenting  on your post there. Just a side note if the judges feel that nothing really happened then Joran shouldn't worry about naming the actual clean-up crew. No reason at all to take it to the grave. Unless she wasn't dead yet. But maybe the judges feel they should remain secret and continue to perform their clean-up duties for Aruba.

[Destiny]

i think it was very good of peterdevries to bring this footage under the public eye.
now joran cannot live comfortably in arnhem anymore, it keeps the pressure on the lid.
if joran the "schaakmeester, iedereen altijd een stap voor" (master of chess, always one step in front of others, as is jorans msn name)gets under pressure without inside info like before (via attorney and dad) there is no telling what he will do.
interesting.

The Queen's Gambit...P to Q4...Beth is the Queen, she will win this match!

[Nut44x4]

Destiny,

As I remember it, Joran was said to have killed his dog a year or more before Natalee went missing.  It wasn't the day before as stated. 

Thank you Sunny....that is what I remember as well... (it also wasn't Choller).