Natalee Case Discussion #728 2/10 - 2/11/08

[Bladerunner]

My comments in red

The OM mentioned as an example the media hunt on an accomplice that Van der Sloot mentioned.  After this person (Daury Rodriguez) had declared that he has nothing to do with the case, all eyes focused on a next person (Lorenzo van Rijn). 

Its not Joran's fault, but the media!

“The cameras were all around his house”, informed district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “He had to take on a lawyer for the contact with us.”

Hey A-hole, that usually happens when your linked to a heinous crime by name on world wide television!

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot.  The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

Tell us something we don't know already! Of course Croes was premature, he went off script!

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, was the reaction of the OM. 

"Believe me, we know all about THE HURDLES."

Many institutions, official bodies, lawyers, journalists, and psychologists are asking themselves how to handle the outpouring of Joran van der Sloot before the hidden camera.   According to law psychologist Albert Wagenaar, there is not even a confession in the revealing reportage.  There is no solving of the case and it is no confession of a criminal act, ’because none is indicated’, said the psychologist.

Using a so called "expert" to refute the obvious--must be getting some good tips from Taco!

The ombudsman of NOS, Tom van Bussel is of the opinion that the NOS should have been more reserved in reporting Peter R. de Vries’ claim that he had solved the Holloway disappearance-case.  After the coverage of SBS6 on Sunday evening it appeared that De Vries’ promise is not fulfilled.  “What we know now is that Joran is a confused guy.  Like a source of the OM phrased it: ‘We thought that we would get a solution, but what we got was another of the so-many stories”, states the ombudsman on his NOS-website.
 
OK, I've had enough, this hold thing beyond comprehension at this point!

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Geraldo At Large
February 10, 2008

Geraldo:

It was a case as you know we thought had gone ice cold, but now shocking developments last weekend have thrust Natalee Holloway back onto the front page here in the US and around the globe.

Secretly recorded videotape has revealed the young aruban man, long thought to be a suspect, to be a callous and indifferent lowlife. Shocked and outraged, Natalee's mother Beth joins me now, along with Dutch crime reporter, Peter de Vries who caught Joran van der Sloot confessing to a hideous crime.

You know, I don't know whether to give you my condolences or my congratulations with these revelations. How are you taking it? Is it an awful blow? Is it a closure of some sort?

Beth:

Well if I, if I look at, if I take, to, if it's like it's, if I have to look at the not knowing versus the knowing, of course the knowing is difficult, expecially hearing the words coming from Joran's mouth as being, how he's just, gosh he's just a despicable form of a human being anyway and what he's saying, but Geraldo the not knowing is the shear hell and I think that every parent would have that constant daily torture of not knowing what has happened to their child or a loved one, so if I have to (inaudible) of course I'd have to say the knowing is where I find the peace and comfort because this is what I have been wanting all along, is the answers to what happened.

Geraldo:

The Shock of actually seeing him saying those words, when Peter showed you that video, your reaction was visceral? It was emotional? It must be something you will never forget?

Beth:

Well, I wanted to come through the tv and I wanted to kill him and I would have peeled his skin off his face, yes!

Geraldo:

The fact that he said she went into these tremors, this trembling, I remember your saying the Dutch police or the aruban police asked you at the time, when you first arrived in Aruba whether or not she had any kind of ailments or afflictions, epilepsy, things of that nature that would make her tremble, would make her shuddder, that would make her go through those; what did they know then or is it eerie coincidence that he mentions her going through those symptoms?

Beth:

You know we've really tried to be so careful in Natalee's investigation to stick with the known facts and it is a known fact that the only medical question that they did ask us, the only one question as far as medical issues, was does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures and that was within the first 48 hours of her disappearance, so we just have to lay the facts out there and they kind of speak pretty loudly that if we hear that within 48 hours of her disappearance and we take it 2-1/2 years later and I think when I, not only just to hear Joran say this but I even see him imitate her body actions as she's suffering, so I'm thinking you know, it's hard not to put those two things together.

Geraldo:

They must have heard some kind of admission somewhere along the line

Beth:

Yeah, something

Geraldo:

That's the unavoidable conclusion I come to. We'll come back to that point.

Congratulations, it takes one to know one, that was a hell of a job of undercover reporting there. On Friday afternoon in The Netherlands, aruban police again questioned Joran van der Sloot who claimed that everything he told your man, everything he told this Patrick character was because he was stoned, he was wasted on marijuana provided by Patrick, the informant. Your response to Joran saying don't believe my lying mouth because I was stoned at the time.

Peter de Vries:

Yeah well my response is simple, it's the only thing he can say because otherwise he is going right away into jail so he has to say this. It's incredible, it's unbelievable and it's unreliable.

Geraldo:

He said earlier as I recall that he was only conjuring up this fantasy because he wanted to impress the older man, Patrick.

de Vries:

I don't buy that either because nobody on the world is impressed by a story like that; an innocent girl who is dumped into the ocean, you're not going to impress anybody by that, so that's balogna!

Geraldo:

I've come to know this woman and her family very well under very trying circumstances and I am totally in her corner. The fact is though that he didn't quite confess to a homicide, did he?

de Vries:

No, he didn't confess to a homicide but what he did confess and not only once or twice but more than 10 times, that he was at the beach, present when Natalee dies and that he somehow panicked and wanted to get rid of the body and that's very important and of course, we have to find out what happened really is the death cause of Natalee. We have to find out that but the fact that he admits now on tape, that he was there, that's the key.

Geraldo:

His family is now professing to worry that Joran van der Sloot is suicidal. Your comment

Beth:

Ohhhh, it's hard for me to have any sympathy or compassion for that Geraldo, it just really is, I'll be honest, it's just not a concern of mine and you know, I can't

Geraldo:

Are they conjuring it to generate sympathy where none should exist?

Beth:

Of course, well absolutely, I mean I would think that would certainly be something that they would put out there because in the end it's always been about poor Joran. He himself as he's talking with Patrick, he never expresses any true concern for Natalee and even to the point where if you are with a young woman and this is transpiring, your immediate instinct would be to scoop them up and run with them somewhere, even if you're even seeking help from the Marriott, he was close by he could have just picked her body up and just scooped her and take off running with her, there was some medical personnel that would come and seen if something that could have been done

Geraldo:

He could have yelled "Help". He could have said "Help me, somebody help me"

Beth:

Absolutely, he admits that during some of the taped admissions he gives to Patrick that he says that he doesn't know if Natalee is alive or not and of course, no 17 year old boy can determine whether a young female is, or a person, an individual is alive or not , I mean Natalee didn't have, I mean we can never go back to re-capture whether they disposed of her body while she's in a coma or while she's dead, I mean we'll never be able to re-capture that to know whether she could have been benefited from some medical assistance.

Geraldo:

I have to take a break; I have some professional to professional hard questions for Peter about his informant Patrick and his background: what he knew and when he knew it and also whether he believes that everything is as supportable and as corroborated as he suggested on his broadcast. We'll take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back.

Welcome back, I'm with Beth Holloway and Peter de Vries the Dutch investigator who cracked one of the world's most enduring mysteries: what happened to Natalee Holloway, the then 18 year old Alabama highschool graduate who disappeared on the island of Aruba over 2-1/2 years ago.

So Patrick it turns out was coming here, the informant was coming here to the United States. He got stopped at Kennedy and they said 'wait a second, you have a conviction for heroin dealing, you're a drug dealer, you can't come into the country' Did you know about his criminal past?

de Vries:

Yeah, I did know about his criminal past. He told me right away in the beginning so it was no secret. He also told that on Dutch television, everybody knows in Holland and I have to emphasize it were only small convictions, 12, 13 years ago and he's now a well respected businessman in Holland so in my opinion, nothing wrong with him.

Geraldo:

How did he gain Joran's trust? First of all, how did they meet?

de Vries:

Well they met in a casino in Holland and Joran and Patrick like to play poker, they both speak papiamentu the language or Aruba, so they became friends. Patrick pretended that he was not interested in the case, in the disappearance case and he said "Joran, well that's your business, I don't want to know" and that was very important and later on when Joran was released from prison and the case was closed, then he started to ask "well, what happened?" and that's how it started. Then Joran started to talk.

Geraldo:

Did Patrick set the kid up then? Did he have it in his mind to make some money on Joran van der Sloot and seek you out?

de Vries:

No, not at all. He was only convinced that Joran was not telling the truth and nothing but the truth about what happened on the night on the beach.

Geraldo:

What motivated that?

de Vries:

He , what motivated him was that he thought Joran was lying, that he loves Aruba and he's the father of 2 little children, so he could imagine what Beth was going through

Geraldo:

So he was being patriotic in a sense?

de Vries:

yeah, I think you could say that.

Geraldo:

He also got paid almost $40,000.00 US, right?

de Vries:

Yeah, but for a 6 months of work

Geraldo:

I'm not putting it down at all, I believe him totally, I want to be very clear about that

de Vries:

He worked day and night

Geraldo:

Informants generally aren't priests or rabbis, they tend to be people with colourful pasts.

de Vries:

Of course

Geraldo:

And I can see Joran with his own criminal streak looking up to someone who has a little shadiness in the background. He gained his trust, Joran starts talking because no one can make your lips move and say those words if you're not saying them

de Vries:

Exactly

Geraldo:

And again, run that little clip of Joran confessing to what he did, run it now.

(play videotape)

There is Joran explaining his accomplice, this Daury and the advice the alleged accomplice gave to Joran for the next day, to behave normally, go to school Joran, he even says he's going to go to the casino so the surveillance cameras will catch him.

Who do you think really gave him that advice to act normally the next day, go to school and even go to the casino?

Beth:

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Geraldo:

Peter I know this is now verging on speculation but when you hear it in English, it sounds an awful lot like the advice a parent would give a son; also the name of the person you take to the grave isn't some hangout buddy, it's your dad.

Do you think that as a result of your work, the father Paulus van der Sloot is in trouble again?

de Vries:

I don't know if he is in trouble again, I agree with what Beth is saying about this but we do know that Joran told that his father smuggled a cellphone into the prison when he was arrested for the first time and he was a Judge at that time, so that's already unforgivable.

Geraldo:

Do you wnat to make an educated guess on whether Joran will be arrested?

de Vries: Well that's hard to say but he will stand trial, sooner or later

Geraldo:

From one professional to another, well done and darling, I hope this is the beginning of the end, you deserve justice.

Beth:

Thank you Geraldo.

[Rob]

hey caesu,

thanks again for taking then time to help look into this important case...Natalee's Case. we do need the help from your side, and it means alot to the people who having been following this case since day two. like me.

just when you think you have seen it all, Rooba does something else to make you vomit all over again. they are repulsive. the seven level. the end of the road.

[ala_gunslinger]

Bladerunner,

Paulus Octavius Tiberius Caligula Van Der Sloot was charged with premeditated murder.

He had two contacts.

You are correct Rob.  I know of one...in the cassino.  Where/when was the other?

I have missed 'talking to you'!

Hey Man, missed talking to you too. I thought you were long gone in a still accident. Glad to see you!!!

lol!  It's gonna take more than that!!!!  You should see my latest restoration!

Is the e-mail and snail mail address you last sent me still valid?

affirmative.

Thank you.

[nimrod]

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot.  The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, was the reaction of the OM.
 

Houston, we've got a problem.

We sure do. I don't like the tone of that article one bit. Poor Joran is just a confused boy. When are they going to stop calling him a "boy" and what is it going to take to finally remove him from the public?

[ala_gunslinger]

Bladerunner,

Paulus Octavius Tiberius Caligula Van Der Sloot was charged with premeditated murder.

He had two contacts.

You are correct Rob.  I know of one...in the cassino.  Where/when was the other?

I have missed 'talking to you'!

Hey Man, missed talking to you too. I thought you were long gone in a still accident. Glad to see you!!!

lol!  It's gonna take more than that!!!!  You should see my latest restoration!

Is the e-mail and snail mail address you last sent me still valid?

affirmative.

Thank you.

Thank you.

[Ono]

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

Then we have them right where we want them. And the boycott was justified and deserved. It would all be validated PI.

Absolutely.  And while we're at it, let's get the criminal guilty parties extradited to a court of law in ALABAMA - civil [ if nothing else ].  This must be what those ignorant guilty parties on Aruba really dread and fear, imo. 

"Alabama grand and great, Alabama, my home state."

I think he could be "Queen of the Pen" in Alabama and those mates would treat him like a queen for sure!!!!!!!!! OK a little cruel, but maybe for just a day so he will learn what NO means????????????????

Sir, most respectfully, I have absolutely no idea of what you are saying here, but :

The meaning of my post was this:

Joran and his band of merry men defiled an innocent citizen of the United States of America, an innocent of the state of Alabama, thumbed their collective noses at the aforesaid and at juris prudence, and have played America and Alabamians for complete and utter fools. To top it all off.....Aruba is whining because they don't have the American tourist's dollars anymore. Hello? Hello?   Wake up here, Aruba.  Americans want decent actions from you.

[caesu]

i want him arrested ASAP just because i don't like the feeling he is sitting there near rotterdam smoking weed as we speak. or maybe even surfing on the web trying to figure out how to spin everything.

what is going to happen after that. i don't know.
but i think in a week from now we now a lot more.

i even don't know this but apart from his lawyer can he speak to paul vds also confidential while he is in jail?
of course his lawyer can pas things on.

and then also when he is in jail i don't want him watching tv...
i don't want him watching his own face on tv.

Caesu, IMO after Peter deVries expose and the loud public outburst from holland, the US and Arubas the Dutch system will have egg all over their face, no make that shit all over their face, if they don't send him to trial. Thoughts?

i didn't get the bold line

but yes, by keeping silent balkenende proofed it think he didn't have plan to fix this, he was hoping it would just go away.
so i think the cabinet is in its last days. or the most cooked up some weird plan.
but i am cautious because i am not pretending to know how the trainwreck is going get pulled out that ditch.

hypothetically:

when the cabinet-falls, Balkie (that's his nickname is use) has to call elections in 90 or 60? days i think and he will stay on as a care-taker government to handle daily affairs.
but it can even be worse. but i don't remeber that ever occuring (i am 29).
then balkie has to step down all together and wouter bos vice-PM is care-take PM till the elections.
the next vice-PM is Andre Rouvout - he is from a christian party - if wouter bos has to go to.
but if it is that bad, then i don't even want to think about.

but with the election one party will win for sure.
the is the PVV - the only party to speak out about Natalee and crime/corruption/drugs in Aruba/Antilles.
the PVV got attacked for doing that on all sides.

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

These week my fellow MP Raymond the Roon requested an emergency debate as a result of the resounding developments around the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. The entire Netherlands talks, but the parlaiment is silent. A clear example of the enormous gap between the citizens and The Hague politician.

this party is doing very well in the polls, although i don't agree with this party on a lot of issues.
but natalee and the whole mess is way more important than all of them.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=103

i think it might be interesting to see, because balkenende is out of the country on the antilles/aruba
difficult to influence media back here. maybe he has given up already or is going to try for some major bull shit speech in aruba bit he is not very good at that. no charisma.

i am speculation but it might be interesting, maybe nothing happens at all that's also possibe.

but the ditch will still smell like hell.

[for natalie]

I am new and have been reading the forum about Natalie because your membership has been able to give information  from Aruba and the Netherlands.  Your humor is teriffic..I like your robots very much too.  SOme of you get really down on Joran's mother...did you ever think that she has been abused by Joran?   I am afraid to think what her life is with Paulus Maximus let alone her dear son, Joran.  Did anyone else get the sense that Joran abuses her?   Only further indicates his  sick nature.   I do think we will get the truth.   

[klaasend]

I am new and have been reading the forum about Natalie because your membership has been able to give information  from Aruba and the Netherlands.  Your humor is teriffic..I like your robots very much too.  SOme of you get really down on Joran's mother...did you ever think that she has been abused by Joran?   I am afraid to think what her life is with Paulus Maximus let alone her dear son, Joran.  Did anyone else get the sense that Joran abuses her?   Only further indicates his  sick nature.   I do think we will get the truth.   

Welcome! 

If Joran abuses her it's because she allows it.  Joran has been allowed to get away with bad behaviour all his life IMO and that's probably why we are all here right now.

[martini]

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Freudian slip



P: "Joran shouldn't you be in jail?" "I mean in school."

J: "Laten we geen oude koeien uit de Sloot halen"

[Destiny]

I am new and have been reading the forum about Natalie because your membership has been able to give information  from Aruba and the Netherlands.  Your humor is teriffic..I like your robots very much too.  SOme of you get really down on Joran's mother...did you ever think that she has been abused by Joran?   I am afraid to think what her life is with Paulus Maximus let alone her dear son, Joran.  Did anyone else get the sense that Joran abuses her?   Only further indicates his  sick nature.   I do think we will get the truth.   

Welcome! 

If Joran abuses her it's because she allows it.  Joran has been allowed to get away with bad behaviour all his life IMO and that's probably why we are all here right now.

Welcome forNatalee.

I have a differing opinion on this...I think that Juron is afraid of his mother...just like Paulus is afraid of her...

I think she has been pulling strings and pushing the Sloot agenda from the get go...Anita craves money and power...she is very concious of social standing...and fights and claws her way to the top. anyway she can...I think she is EVIL...

[caesu]

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot.  The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, was the reaction of the OM.
 

Houston, we've got a problem.

yes they are fighting behing the scenes big time.
must be.
aruban OM, dutch OM.
justice ministers croes and hirsch ballin taking hits at eachother with bull shit statements who don't even make sense.

friday i posted this earlier. 4 ! statements contradicted eachtother.

balkie just doesn't know where to look and what to say.

sorry for repeating but i think the the big word is timeline.
peter r. de vries knew about the antillen/aruba visit.
that's why he had to stop the undercovernig operation with patrick - he could have gotten more - but peter r. thought: this should do it. and it did!!!

bang big media hype never seen this before. some people think it is not that big because balkie or hirsch ballin are not sending out dramatic statements, well, the don't even know what to say - that's how bad it is!

the political and judicial system is caught with their pants down full view of the whole world.
i even think even your Mukasey had jaw dropping while watching tv.

i hope i am reading the messages right. might be a little premature.

[San]

I am new and have been reading the forum about Natalie because your membership has been able to give information  from Aruba and the Netherlands.  Your humor is teriffic..I like your robots very much too.  SOme of you get really down on Joran's mother...did you ever think that she has been abused by Joran?   I am afraid to think what her life is with Paulus Maximus let alone her dear son, Joran.  Did anyone else get the sense that Joran abuses her?   Only further indicates his  sick nature.   I do think we will get the truth.   

Welcome for natalie.  The first time Joran abused her she should have taken care of it.

Example: When I was younger my brother threw water at my mother.  My sister got off the chair and punched him right in the chest and he fell on the floor.  My brother was about Joran's age.  He never did that again.

[Dayhiker]

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot.  The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, was the reaction of the OM.
 

Houston, we've got a problem.

We sure do. I don't like the tone of that article one bit. Poor Joran is just a confused boy. When are they going to stop calling him a "boy" and what is it going to take to finally remove him from the public?

Just moved Dop Kruimel over to the Shit List with Karin Jannsen, Jan van der Straten and Dennis Jacobs. This scumbag or scumbagette is right in there with that lot.

[Scandi]

Here is what I read at mirror.co.uk written by ik:

A man claims he found a telephone behind the lighthouse in 2005; it was broken; he fixed it and dialed a person with the phone, so his story goes. The person apparently answered and said that that number belonged to Paulus Van der Sloot. The man is now giving testimony to the police. Late, but still important enough to be taken into consideration.


Very interesting."

Scandi - that quote from the Mirror forum came from the front page of SM.  Those are Jossy's words.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/02/09/natalee-holloway-comments-form-jossy-mansur-regarding-new-developments-in-aruba-and-joran-van-der-sloot/

Thanks so much Klassend for the quick response.  Nice.  At least the poster did reference SM, as they probably don't always do that   ::MonkeyRoll:  xoxox

[caesu]

Translation

No Joran on Aruba during Balkenende visit.

No MSM spectacle.

We have to put this thing off.

what is this? where does this come from?

[klaasend]

Translation

No Joran on Aruba during Balkenende visit.

No MSM spectacle.

We have to put this thing off.

what is this? where does this come from?

I think Rob is just saying that's how it will probably turn out.  It was Rob's interpretation of what was said and not translation. 

[martini]

PHILIPSBURG--Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende and State Secretary of Kingdom Relations Ank Bijleveld-Schouten will be in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba for a working visit February 10-15.

The theme of this visit will be the revival of the relations within the Kingdom. Balkenende will be informed of the progress of the political process.

He and the State Secretary will be visiting projects in the fields of education, health care and economic development. Balkenende will deliver a guest lecture on dynamics in the Kingdom, society and economy at University of the Netherlands Antilles.

The Prime Minister and the State Secretary will visit all the islands during their stay.

Balkenende and Bijleveld-Schouten will arrive in St. Maarten Sunday evening, February 10. They will be received by Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles Emily de Jongh-Elhage.

The two Dutch dignitaries will be in Saba and St. Eustatius on Monday, February 11. In Saba there will be discussions with Lt. Governor Hyden Gittens and the Executive Council, and Sacred Heart School will be visited. During lunch they will talk to persons from the community who are active in the fields of nature, tourism and the environment.

In St. Eustatius, there will be discussions in the afternoon with Lt. Governor Sydney Sorton and the Executive Council. The hospital and the oil terminal will also be visited.

There will be a reception in St. Maarten in the evening.

The delegation will be in St. Maarten on Tuesday, February 12, with discussions with the Executive Council and a visit to the Courthouse, where Balkenende will deliver a speech on law enforcement and good government.

He and Bijleveld-Schouten will leave for Bonaire in the afternoon to meet with Lt. Governor Herbert Domacassé and the Executive Council.

Prime Minister Balkenende will deliver a guest lecture at University of the Netherlands Antilles in Curaçao at the end of the afternoon. Afterwards, he will enter into a discussion with the students. In the evening, the Government of the Netherlands Antilles will offer a dinner.

The Prime Minister and the State Secretary will have discussions with Governor Goedgedrag in Curaçao on Wednesday, February 13. They will also visit Chairman of the Parliament of the Netherlands Antilles Pedro Atacho. Furthermore, there will be discussions with Prime Minister De Jongh-Elhage and the Council of Ministers.

The delegation, accompanied Commissioner of Tourism and Economic Affairs Eugene Rhuggenaath, will visit the Renaissance project later in the afternoon. In the evening, there will be a reception with youngsters, the theme of which will be education, culture, sports and the business sector.

Balkenende and Bijleveld-Schouten will visit the Marine Barracks in Curaçao on Thursday, February 14. Here, attention will be given to a Department of Defence youth programme: “Future Plan Antillean Militia.” There will be consultations with the chairmen of the political parties in the Island Council of Curaçao later that morning.

The delegation will visit Tula Museum in the afternoon and a meeting has been scheduled with Lt. Governor Lisa Dindial and the Executive Council of Curaçao immediately afterward.

[Rob]

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Freudian slip



P: "Joran shouldn't you be in jail?" "I mean in school."

J: "Laten we geen oude koeien uit de Sloot halen"

these are my thoughts on Joran -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MPfvt5tR8M