Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 - 2/13/08

[Destiny]

A Monkey Media heads up ...

I talked to Beth today about all the recent events and she will be a guest on Dana's show this coming Wednesday on Scared Monkeys radio. Don't miss ... be sure to tune in at 9pm edt on Wednesday.

        

Beth on Dana Pretzer!  Yippee!!  Thanks Red!

We are watching, and *part of*...a miracle in the making...I feel the blessed energy.  Good overcoming EVIL!!!

[blah]

Morning Monkeys

10 yrs ago I was on business in Cancun and someone insisted we go to Senor Frogs. Total tourist trap geared towards younger crowd.  All about alcohol consumption and rowdiness.

Trust me.  Same place, different name. 

I guarantee that the owners did it to salvage their reputation.

I also was at Sr Frogs in Cancun right around 10 years ago!!!

I knew you looked familiar!  Weren't you the one dancing on the table? LOL

Probably!!

 

[crazybabyborg]

Morning Monkeys

10 yrs ago I was on business in Cancun and someone insisted we go to Senor Frogs. Total tourist trap geared towards younger crowd.  All about alcohol consumption and rowdiness.

Trust me.  Same place, different name. 

I guarantee that the owners did it to salvage their reputation.

I also was at Sr Frogs in Cancun right around 10 years ago!!!

I knew you looked familiar!  Weren't you the one dancing on the table? LOL

That might have been me.....  Been there, done that.
Cancun has a Carlos and Charlies as well as a Senior Frogs. C&C's seemed more sinister to me, but, depending on the bartender, and the alliances that exist between the locals and the staff that work there, the scenario that most probably played out the night Natalee went missing, could happen at either.

I'm curious about something............I always stay on a huge resort in Cancun that is all-inclusive. It's cheaper that way, and an extremely nice place. One of the "options" for guests is a bar-hop night. Basically, they take you to the better known bars, including Senior Frogs, and Carlos and Charlies, as well as a couple more, and guarentee you that you will be delivered back to your room by 4:00am, even if they have to do it in a wheelbarrow! It's just a shuttle thing with 2 burley guys that park themselves at the door of each place and you are not leaving until they gather everyone up to move on to the next place. No one bothers you or the group you are in, and you've got these bracelets that entitle you to cheaper drinks at the bars. If you decide you want to cut off the night early, the "shuttle" takes you back after it transports everyone else to the next place and you are walked to your door............whether you want to be or not! I'm making this sound like the military, and it's not...........everybody is very friendly and joke around a lot. The point is this: You're in a different country, and it's a great way to let your hair down without a worry about driving, drinking, getting home, or major regrets the next day and even if you're with friends, you don't worry about anyone. There's no interference with what you want to do, while you're at these places, but you ARE going back to the gated resort before the night's over, there's no standing in line at the places you go, and I felt SAFE!

I've done the night twice, once with adult friends, and once with teenagers I was chaparoning who were just 18 and I knew were going to be drinking, no matter what I did. It was great to know that I had help to make sure they got back alright, and I didn't have to have more sets of eyes than God gave me! I wonder why more tourists places, like Aruba, don't have more packages like that?

[Anna]

CBB,
That would interfere with Aruba's National passtime which seems to be drugging and raping the tourist girls.  Would spoil all the fun for the local punks and pimps.

.

[msmarple]

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1016&Itemid=30

Corte di husticia mester scucha abogado Joran       

Tuesday, 12 February 2008 

ORANJESTAD (AAN) — E ultimo comunicado cu autoridad penal di Aruba, Ministerio Publico a emiti y cu a mira luz ayera, a duna mas motibo pa cuminza pensa si autoridad penal no tabata sa con e sistema di husticia ta funciona na Aruba.

Siman pasa a worde bisa na prensa cu ta spera decision di Huez pa mira si ta bolbe detene Joran van der Sloot a base di e interogacionnan na Hulanda. No a splica cu e proceso lo a cana a base di reglanan pa un caso cu a bay den apelacion y den cual mester scucha e abogado di Joran van der Sloot, cu segun expertonan lo bisa cu ta bau influencia di droga el a haci su declaracionnan. Con ta atende cu hende bau influencia di droga, autoridad a demostra aña pasa den caso di un adicto na Aruba.

Ora Huez dicta un sentencia, uno di e partidonan envolvi por apela e decision. Esey ta nifica cu ta pidi Corte di Husticia pa atende e caso, cu mester worde trata manera cualquier caso. Tin acusacion y tin defensa.

E informenan di autoridad penal a crea e impresion, cu ora interogacion di van der Sloot termina na Hulanda, Huez lo dicidi si ta detene. Tabata parce cu ta sin mas Huez lo por a permiti pa detene Johan van der Sloot.

Realmente, un caso den apelacion ta worde trata di nobo door di Corte di Husticia y ni sikiera un solo Huez. Autoridad penal ta presenta su acusacion y e motibo pa cual e ta kere cu e sentencia di Huez den promer instancia mester worde revoca. E acusado tin derecho riba defensa mescos cu e tabata tin derecho despues di e sentencia di Huez pa el a apela e sentencia.

E informacionnan di Ministerio Publico a kita e caminda legal poco for di vista y a crea un impresion diferente te cu ayera, cu autoridad legal a bolbe emiti un comunicado pa aclarea un que otro y pone den perspectiva di e forma con husticia ta funciona.

Ayera autoridad penal, Ministerio Publico, a anuncia cu contrario na otro informacion, no por spera cu ayera Dialuna 11 di Februari, Corte lo a dicta fayo den e caso cu el a apela contra decision di Huez Comisario pa rechaza e detencion di Johan van der Sloot.

Corte di Husticia a bisa cu nan lo tuma un decision despues di 13 di Februari ya cu e abogado di Joran van der Sloot ta haya te 13 di Februari 2008 pa duna su punto di vista den e caso cu a apela. Ministerio Publico a bolbe conclui su comunicado cu ta ora Corte dicidi, e por duna comentario.

E pregunta ta keda si e funcionamento di husticia no ta conoci cerca autoridad penal di Aruba, cu tabata tin problema pa proba nan acusacion contra Johan van der Sloot, cu nan a detene a base di “informacionnan nobo”, cu no por a proba kico Joran cu a cera su boca, a haci.

Segun expertonan por spera cu Joran van der Sloot su abogado lo bisa loke Joran mes a bisa, cu e tabata bau influencia di droga ora el a haci e declaracionnan na De Vries. Kico esey lo nifica? Por tene responsabel pa su palabranan cu el a papia bau influencia di droga?

Online Pap translation:

corte of husticia have to listen advocate joran

tuesday, 12 february 2008

oranjestad (aan) — the ultimo comunicado cu autoridad penal of aruba, ministerio publico owing to emiti y cu owing to see luz yesterday, owing to give more motibo for cuminza think if autoridad penal not was know con the sistema of husticia is funciona at aruba.

week happen owing to worde tell at prensa cu is wait for decision of huez for see if is go back detene joran van der sloot owing to base of the interogacionnan at the netherlands. not owing to splica cu the proceso will owing to march owing to base of reglanan for one caso cu owing to bay in apelacion y in cual have to listen the advocate of joran van der sloot, cu according expertonan will tell cu is bau influencia of drugs past owing to haci his declaracionnan. con is atende cu person bau influencia of drugs, autoridad owing to demostra year happen in caso of one adicto at aruba.

hour huez dicta one sentencia, uno of the partidonan envolvi can apela the decision. esey is nifica cu is ask corte of husticia for atende the caso, cu have to worde deal as cualquier caso. have acusacion y have defence.

the informenan of autoridad penal owing to crea the impresion, cu hour interogacion of van der sloot termina at the netherlands, huez will dicidi if is detene. was seems cu is without more huez will can owing to permiti for detene johan van der sloot.

genuinely, one caso in apelacion is worde deal of new door of corte of husticia y neither sikiera one sun huez.
autoridad penal is present his acusacion y the motibo for cual the is believe cu the sentencia of huez in previous to instancia have to worde revoca. the acusado have derecho on defence same cu the was have derecho after of the sentencia of huez for past owing to apela the sentencia.

the informacionnan of ministerio publico owing to less the caminda legal some for of vista y owing to crea one impresion various till cu yesterday, cu autoridad legal owing to go back emiti one comunicado for aclarea one que another y place in perspectiva of the form con husticia is funciona.

yesterday autoridad penal, ministerio publico, owing to anuncia cu contrario at another informacion, not can wait for cu yesterday monday 11 of feburary, corte will owing to dicta damage in the caso cu past owing to apela contra decision of huez comisario for rechaza the detencion of johan van der sloot.

corte of husticia owing to tell cu they will take one decision after of 13 of feburary already cu the advocate of joran van der sloot is achieve till 13 of feburary 2008 for give his sharp of vista in the caso cu owing to apela. ministerio publico owing to go back conclui his comunicado cu is hour corte dicidi, the can give comentario.

the question is stay if the funcionamento of husticia do not conoci close autoridad penal of aruba, cu was have problem for prove they acusacion contra johan van der sloot, cu they owing to detene owing to base of “informacionnan nobo”, cu not can owing to prove kico joran cu owing to close his mouth, owing to haci.

according expertonan can wait for cu joran van der sloot his advocate will tell thing joran self owing to tell, cu the was bau influencia of drugs hour past owing to haci the declaracionnan at de vries. kico esey will nifica? can as responsible for his words cu past owing to talk bau influencia of drugs?

* * *

[crazybabyborg]

CBB,
That would interfere with Aruba's National passtime which seems to be drugging and raping the tourist girls.  Would spoil all the fun for the local punks and pimps.

.

 

[Nut44x4]

A Monkey Media heads up ...

I talked to Beth today about all the recent events and she will be a guest on Dana's show this coming Wednesday on Scared Monkeys radio. Don't miss ... be sure to tune in at 9pm edt on Wednesday.

        

I am still catching up, as you can see...
WooooooHooooooo!! Go Beth!! 
Thanks Dana and Red!!

[SunnyinTX]

A Monkey Media heads up ...

I talked to Beth today about all the recent events and she will be a guest on Dana's show this coming Wednesday on Scared Monkeys radio. Don't miss ... be sure to tune in at 9pm edt on Wednesday.

        

Good Morning Monks!!  as usual I am reading trying to catch up. ..but wanted to bring this forward....thanks RED!!  And JUG ROCKED last night....it is so good to see him again ...I love his attitude.....he tells it like it is....GET PAULUS and Van Der Stratten!!!

[klaasend]

Goodmorning all - I'm not really awake yet but I just got word.................


Wednesday - Dana Pretzer Radio

Beth Holloway and Peter R. DeVries!!!!!!

[SunnyinTX]

"Says that there is a back bar at C&Cs and that Natalee was steered to that
bar at last call.  He had a friend monitor that bar on several
nights in succession.  At last call guy would order two drinks bartender would pour two drinks normally and would then reach
to a shelf over his head and pour a clear substance into one of
the drinks."

Sounds like its time for an undercover sting by you know who!

Unfortunately, Carlos n Charlies is closed down and is being replaced by Senior Frogs.

It is my understanding that there is another one at St. Nicholas.  Remember baby beach, babylon places?  The southern part of the island.  Another Carlos and Charlies.
Wonder if Senior Frog is getting that one as well?      j/b

That one is called Charlies Bar and it's more of a biker place, not a tourist place as much as CnC was.

http://www.charliesbararuba.com/

Actually, believe it or not ... back in the day Charlies Bar was quite the tourist hot spot. It was just a nice little hole in the wall bar. People would leave mementos of where they were from.

I am not sure what the place has become today.

I actually used to frequent the place quite often in my youth ... before I was banned 

hahahaha...I almost missed that little tidbit Red!  LOL

[Dayhiker]

In my opinion, Joran has confessed to murder in the DeVries tapes.

He stresses that he does not know if Natalee is alive or dead. And since Natalee is not here to determine if she did have a seizure, one must conclude that he hid the body (based on his words on the tape) to conceal something.

EX-
If I take a live person and hurl them off a bridge - that's murder should the person die. Attempted murder at a minimum. The height used to place the person in the water is irrelevant. Bridge vs. over the side of a boat. The person is in the water. In the case where the person is slipped over the edge of the boat, it could be argued that the only reasonable conclusion is concealment.

Same thing here.

Joran has admitted taking a person, one he is not sure is alive or dead, and made them disappear. The person has not been seen in 32 months. It's only logical that the person is no longer alive and Joran is indeed the last person to be seen with that missing person.

That's murder in my book folks, and I could easily convict someone if I were seated on a jury.

I agree wholeheartedly Rob. She was a live healthy girl when she left with him. He was the last to be seen with her. He is not qualified to make a determination of whether she was dead or not, therefore he can't say she was dead when he had her dumped in the ocean.

JORAN MURDERED HER.

Dave is right on, the Kalpoes are involved. No reason for them not to be cooperating with police if not.

Kalpoes facilitated the drugging and kidnapping of Natalee at the very least. "How is the girl?" "If they find that shit you'll get 15 years." The last time around the judge even said there were high suspicions of kidnapping and disposal on the Kalpoes, part.

[Dayhiker]

Goodmorning all - I'm not really awake yet but I just got word.................


Wednesday - Dana Pretzer Radio

Beth Holloway and Peter R. DeVries!!!!!!

WOW! Great line-up Dana. You have a hard act to follow after you last show but I'd say you've done it!

[cubbeegirl]

Goodmorning all - I'm not really awake yet but I just got word.................


Wednesday - Dana Pretzer Radio

Beth Holloway and Peter R. DeVries!!!!!!

WOW! I had been hoping for this! Thanks klaas! 

[Nut44x4]

Arm bone from Pelican?

Someone better get that arm bone to the Smithsonian. Pronto. That would be a new species as far as I know. One with fingers.

Can ya just imagine?

A pelican that can open jars, turn handles, drive a car, work a calculator, and can probably post on the net. It can probably bait a hook too.... so why all that effort diving into the sea...LOL

That's a new legendary monster for the Arubans to conjure up all kinds of fantasies.

Good Morning everyone.

Lmao Rob......gotta love it, eh??
Pelican leg, my @$$
PLEASE GO HERE>>>> lol
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=pelican+skeleton&gbv=2

Pick any you like. Not even close to the picture in question.

I have discussed the arm before and I am not qualified to say if it is human or not. It does 'look' human or primatelike. The mere fact they try to pawn it off as a pelican leg bone is insane. If they were going to lie about it, the least they could have done was say it was from a primate...to make what they are saying more believable. So.........why lie??

[klaasend]

Balkenende starts working visit Antilles 



PHILIPSBURG — Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende and State Secretary Ank Bijleveld-Schouten (Kingdom Relations, CDA) arrived in St. Maarten yesterday evening.  They will visit all the islands, starting with St. Maarten.  During his visit, the premier wants to get informed on the progress of the political process.  They will also visit education-, healthcare-, and economic development projects. 

Other than the Lt. Governor, also Prime Minister Emily de Jongh-Elhage was at the airport to welcome the Dutch members of government.  After St. Maarten, they will visit Saba and Statia, after which they will fly to Curacao and arrive on Tuesday evening.  They will go to Aruba on Thursday evening and will visit in succession the Governor, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber, and the minister Nilo Swaen and Rudy Croes on Friday morning, and afterwards, a visit to the Chairman of Parliament and the parliamentary party-chair is on the agenda.  Prime Minister Balkenende will speak to teachers and students of Colegio Arubano in the afternoon, and will also visit the Valero Aruba Refinery and the barracks of the Royal Marines in Savaneta.  Balkenende will go back to the Netherlands on that same day in the evening.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

[Anna]

In my opinion, Joran has confessed to murder in the DeVries tapes.

He stresses that he does not know if Natalee is alive or dead. And since Natalee is not here to determine if she did have a seizure, one must conclude that he hid the body (based on his words on the tape) to conceal something.

EX-
If I take a live person and hurl them off a bridge - that's murder should the person die. Attempted murder at a minimum. The height used to place the person in the water is irrelevant. Bridge vs. over the side of a boat. The person is in the water. In the case where the person is slipped over the edge of the boat, it could be argued that the only reasonable conclusion is concealment.

Same thing here.

Joran has admitted taking a person, one he is not sure is alive or dead, and made them disappear. The person has not been seen in 32 months. It's only logical that the person is no longer alive and Joran is indeed the last person to be seen with that missing person.

That's murder in my book folks, and I could easily convict someone if I were seated on a jury.

I agree wholeheartedly Rob. She was a live healthy girl when she left with him. He was the last to be seen with her. He is not qualified to make a determination of whether she was dead or not, therefore he can't say she was dead when he had her dumped in the ocean.

JORAN MURDERED HER.

Dave is right on, the Kalpoes are involved. No reason for them not to be cooperating with police if not.

Kalpoes facilitated the drugging and kidnapping of Natalee at the very least. "How is the girl?" "If they find that shit you'll get 15 years." The last time around the judge even said there were high suspicions of kidnapping and disposal on the Kalpoes, part.

What kind of a place accepts the word of a teen-aged stoner that someone is deceased???

They claim they have to do everything legally and by the book yet are taking Joran's word for it that Natalee was dead???

Who appointed him coroner?  What are his qualifications?  See Bobby Cutts weeping and wailing on the witness stand right now about how it victim was accidental.  Let's see how that flies.

No reason to dump at sea any body that died by means other than extreme foul play.

Come to Aruba where teen punks stoned out of their gourds can declare you dead and dump you in the ocean and all the Prosecutor will threaten them with is the disposal of your corpse!

There is a new tourism slogan for them to replace One Happy Island.

[Dayhiker]

just to add...

Joran starts the chain of events when he places the phone call to whoever it was. That's premeditation.

What would he have done if that person didn't answer, or the line was busy? call someone else?

That's intent.

I think he initially intended to rape her but ended up murdering her.

There are a list of charges a mile long that should be thrown at him

Question is whether the Aruban and Dutch have the balls to prosecute. So far no balls, not even the size of BBs.

The Dutch judges on ABC islands are corrupt, the only way they get a prosecution is a mandate for justice from Holland where they originate.

[Dayhiker]

What kind of a place accepts the word of a teen-aged stoner that someone is deceased???

They claim they have to do everything legally and by the book yet are taking Joran's word for it that Natalee was dead???

Who appointed him coroner?  What are his qualifications?  See Bobby Cutts weeping and wailing on the witness stand right now about how it victim was accidental.  Let's see how that flies.

No reason to dump at sea any body that died by means other than extreme foul play.

Come to Aruba where teen punks stoned out of their gourds can declare you dead and dump you in the ocean and all the Prosecutor will threaten them with is the disposal of your corpse!

There is a new tourism slogan for them to replace One Happy Island.

That's just it, they do not know she was dead when he had her body disposed of so you have to assume she was alive just as she left with Joran. There is no other way to interpret it. You have to fall to the victim's side because she was alive when last seen.

That being said we have always seen the Dutch judges protect Joran so we shouldn't look for honesty or integrity from them. There is no reason to have any faith in their judicial system whatsoever.

[Anna]

I hope none of the visiting dignataries experience any health problems while in the area as they can be declared dead by one of the local potheads and pitched in the drink before they know what happened.

[Anna]

There had to have been some pretty obvious and horrific evidence to take the drastic measure of disposing of Natalee Holloway out at sea.

Anything that could remotely have been explained away would have been done so.  That would include death by overdose or even drowning so I think those two possibilities can quickly be eliminated.

Why all the admitted hiding and disposal?  Why not just leave her on the beach to be found if death was by overdose?  Joran could have said it happened after he left. 

How can Joran legally declare a person deceased and a prosecutor take his word for it and say he is only confessing to disposal of a corpse?  That is just unbelievable.

Do they always allow stoned and drunk locals to make this determination and take their word for it?  Is Joran also allowed to make this determination for death certificates and life insurance policies?  Can all the local PIMPS and HO's do so or is it just Joran who is allowed to legally declare people deceased?

Something to think about for sure.  Opens up all manner of legal questions.

Totally lawless region if this flies for one minute with any judicial body.

.