Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 - 2/13/08

[Tylergal]

when i went on vacation to islands in earlier years, (not Aruba!) there always was a place where the restaurants dumped their leftovers in the ocean each day, in order to feed the sharks, so the sharks would not be all over the tourists.
is there such a place on Aruba, and if so, where?
i cant imagine there isnt such a place to be honest.
if natalees body was dumped in the sea, which i do not think, it seems very possible to me that the body was dumped there.

Yes, we contemplated that earlier on but I don't think anyone has talked about that recently.  However, if she was in fact, bleeding, that would have been easy prey.  I hate to think in such a morose way and I am sure others do, but sometimes one has to face the reality of possibilities which are limitless, it seems on an island where human life is so devalued.

[Tylergal]

She wanted to see the sharks 

Unstated So we gave her a first-hand view

[Tylergal]

Dompig's words need to be analyzed also for the parts that are true.

He maintains that her body was moved several times.

Several times? From where to where?

If you eliminate the ocean, and consider the first place the KLPD searched when they took over the case is? The VDS House!

Legally restricted, as was the landfill. We need to follow our instincts of the corrupt, they shielded the house and the landfill would have taken extraordinary measures to be searched, not to mention equipment.

Paulus had a 10 day jump to put this together, that's alot of time.

Think about it, which is safer to dispose of evidence, the dump or the ocean?

Which would keep you up at night?

Contemplate for a moment the reason Val and/or his friends placed the bleeding girl in the bathtub with the caption "NataleeH."  Why else!?!

[bleachedblack]

Wasn't Booshi Wever the one who was allegedly caught in the strip club in Venezuela?

Yes

I have always wondered about the possibility of Paulus operating one of the Venezuelan brothels similar to the place where Amy Bradley was alleged to have been taken. I think it is possible that some thread connects PVDS (the previously unemployed judge who seemed to have money beyond what an unemployed judge should have), Paul Broughs, Michael Posner... These names have become cliche but they have been around since this case broke and I feel there is good reason, we just haven't found out "the far reaching implications " of this case. IMO it would be possible that such a brothel type place exist, and that politicians of all levels from Aruba have known and frequented such places. Is this the reason that they protect Paulus? Is Paulus an owner/investor is such a place?To implicate him in the disappearance of a young tourist would be to open the depths of depravity for all the world to see?

http://tinyurl.com/2bogoe

[Bladerunner]

Dompig's words need to be analyzed also for the parts that are true.

He maintains that her body was moved several times.

Several times? From where to where?

If you eliminate the ocean, and consider the first place the KLPD searched when they took over the case is? The VDS House!

Legally restricted, as was the landfill. We need to follow our instincts of the corrupt, they shielded the house and the landfill would have taken extraordinary measures to be searched, not to mention equipment.

Paulus had a 10 day jump to put this together, that's alot of time.

Think about it, which is safer to dispose of evidence, the dump or the ocean?

Which would keep you up at night?

Yep, and the entire thing about putting her in a metal cage just doesn't seem to make sense either. Such a container could be found very easily and someone would have thought of that. Although, the word Joran uses--"slipped"--does seem revealing.

[imnoangel]

i m sorry monkeys, just had a visitor over and i missed the documentairy i was tellng you about yesterday.
but there s a rerun late this evening and i ll report you on that one.
sorry  ::MonkeyWaa::sorry sorry

[Frank]

Tylergal,

I missed that, what picture?

[caesu]

Peter R. shows proof on dutch showbiz program about other program De Wereld Draait Door how they broke written agreement about him plugging a new book.

maybe it is a bit silly, but it just shows how huge the hype really is.
and that's important because slowly people are starting to realize how fishy and messed up this whole thing is.
and not a single word from out representatives in the hague...
of course there is seperation of powers, but at least they should voice their disgust at those tapes everybody saw.

[SunnyinTX]

Which attorney said ....I know he's guilty, it's up to you to prove it??  Those may not be the exact words...but close enough and I believe it was said to KJ....

[Nut44x4]

Sad...how no one is mentioning the innocent Kalpoe brothers....
They admiited they lied about the actual drop off place.
Deepak tries to tell the "truth" in the interviews:
* White car rental following them that turns off at Holiday Inn
* At the "lighthouse" 2 cars that match GVC and Guido
* Taking a pee at Arashi Beach
* We drove S-W where there are no cameras
* Deepak goes online to cover for Joran...if "anything happens"

Would the actual crime scene be S-W...Colony Beach/Baby Beach?

We have been that route a few times...even considering the Colorado lighthouse, rather than California. We have discussed it, yes.

[klaasend]

Which attorney said ....I know he's guilty, it's up to you to prove it??  Those may not be the exact words...but close enough and I believe it was said to KJ....

Joran's attorney

[Observer]

Which attorney said ....I know he's guilty, it's up to you to prove it??  Those may not be the exact words...but close enough and I believe it was said to KJ....

Antonio Carlo said he was relieving his conscious and told KJ early in the case that Joran plays a major role in Natalee's disappearance but its up to the prosecution to prove it.

[klaasend]

Sad...how no one is mentioning the innocent Kalpoe brothers....
They admiited they lied about the actual drop off place.
Deepak tries to tell the "truth" in the interviews:
* White car rental following them that turns off at Holiday Inn
* At the "lighthouse" 2 cars that match GVC and Guido
* Taking a pee at Arashi Beach
* We drove S-W where there are no cameras
* Deepak goes online to cover for Joran...if "anything happens"

Would the actual crime scene be S-W...Colony Beach/Baby Beach?

Innocent?  IMO, the Kalpoes were involved with the drugging and kidnapping of Natalee Holloway.  They may not have been involved with the disposal of Natalee's body but they are still guilty in my book.

We've discussed the south side of the island and other areas near the Sloots home at length.  Any possible information that has been gathered in that respect has been sent to the family and their investigators.

[Bearlyhere]

Freddy's June 12, 2005 witness statement implies that the FOUR of them went to the beach and ... THEY left her on the beach.

I speculate that Natalee was hidden in the mangrove bushes and ... Joran, Deepak and Satish (?) returned to Deepak's vehicle where they were spotted by the gardener.  After a frantic discussion ... Paulus was contacted.

Janet

++++++++++

Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
Joran's Book
June 12, 2005

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.

He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.

After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.
They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.

The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.

After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.
The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel.  The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.

Translator: Rammstein

Why has everyone said the same thing?  This is too much information, and they all tote the company line.  How many guys kiss and tell like this, telling everyone exactly what they did with a girl and then specify they didn't have sex with her.  Is this normal guy talk?  Maybe they say we fooled around or whatever, but not tell exactly and then declare they didn't have sex with her.

I think they say it to put the best light on Joran (he didn't have a condom so he didn't have sex with her--my isn't he a responsible citizen).  Even when they say she fell out of the car (an admitted lie) they want Joran to be seen in the best light--he tried to help her up, but she pushed him away (makes him look like a gentleman and her look bad) and we know this story is a lie.

When he says, her friends saw that, it sounds like something someone said to him.  Like, "we have to admit to this part because her friends saw them, so we  admit to him knowing her and leaving with her, then we can make the rest up to make Joran look good."

Why all the extra added information, from everyone, to make Joran look like a gentleman.  Why?  Because words are the only thing that could possibly redeem him in anyone's eyes, his actions sure don't.  Daddy gave them the words.

[Tamikosmom]

“NO MAN HAS A GOOD ENOUGH MEMORY TO MAKE A SUCCESSFUL LIAR.”
Abraham Lincoln

Why were Deepak Kalpoe’s inconsistencies in his declarations regarding his departure from Carlos 'N Charlies not challenged by interrogators?

1.  Did or did not Natalee introduce herself?
2.  Did or did not Deepak use his cell phone?
3.  Did or did not Deepak sit outside his vehicle ... Satish had the keys?
4.  Did or did not Satish return to the vehicle ahead of Joran and Natalee?
5.  ...
 
It is said that lies are created to cover the truth.  What truth was Deepak attempting to cover regarding the departure from Carlos ‘n Charlies on the evening of May 30, 2005?

Janet

++++++++++++++++


Deepak Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

I continued to walk around in Carlos & Charlies in search of my brother and Joran but I could not find them. I knew for certain that my brother and Joran were not in Carlos & Charlies at that moment because I had looked around the whole place. At that time it was 01.00 and everyone started leaving.

On Monday, May 30, 2005, around 01.05, I walked to my car to wait for Joran and my brother. Around 01.12 Satish and Joran came to my car. My brother sat beside me in the car and then in the mirror, I saw that Joran and the blonde girl that had been dancing on the stage, sat in the back seat. I greeted the girl in English and she greeted me in English.  The girl did not introduce herself.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

When I turned around Satish and Joran were nowhere to be seen. They hadn't even told that they were leaving. I looked for them for a short while, but hadn't found them. I was in the bathroom for a little while. I have no patience to look. After the bathroom I looked around somewhat. I walked past the bar, past the glass section where the "Carlos & Charlies" souvenirs of "Carlos & Charlie" are sold to the outside. When I was walking outside, I could hear the announcement that it was the last opportunity to buy alcohol. That is always announced before closing, I walked to my car. My car was the only one parked in the back of the parking lot. I went and sat in my car to wait for Satish and Joran. I had no more money left on my pre-paid phone to call them. I was listening to the radio and was trying to adjust the sound. The car door on the right front door was opened. I looked up and saw that it was Satish. Satish sat down next to me. Then the back car door opened. Joran got into the car. He got in on the right side of the car and sat down behind Satish. The girl had also got into the car through the back car door on the left side. She sat down behind me in the car. I greeted her. I said to her: "Hi" She greeted me back and had told me her name.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 11, 2005

I had turned around and talked to my friend. After a while I turned around and noticed that Satish, Joran and the girl Natalee were not there any more where I had last seen them stand. I then searched for them in the club but without result. Then I went to look near the bathrooms. I also didn't find them there, I then used the bathroom myself. . After I walked out of the bathroom, I called Joran on his mobile phone. He did not answer. I walked to the parking lot where my car was parked. When I arrived at my car I sat on the ground next to my car, because my brother had the keys. I then called my brother on his mobile phone. I had almot no more minutes on my pre-paid phone so I called him in a way that produces what in English is called a “miss call”. After that my brother phoned me back, I asked him where they were and he said they were still inside and that he would come. After a while Satish came walking, I asked him where Joran was and he said that Joran was still inside. I told Satish to give me the keys and to go find Joran. Satish left again and I got into my car. I stayed inside of the car with the door open. I had one leg outside the car and I was playing music and adjusting my radio set-up. After a while I heard the door on the passenger side open. I saw Satish getting into the car. Joran opened the door behind Satish and also got into the car. I cannot remember if the girl got into the same car door. I do know that she sat down behind me. I turned around somewhat and introduced myself to the girl. She had told me that her name was Natalee.

[Destiny]

RUDY OOMAN, ATTORNEY FOR DEEPAK KALPOE: Usually, in cases like this, is that, the longer you detain somebody, the stronger your evidence should be. But, in this case, in my client's case, it was the other way around. The longer they stayed in detention, the more proof came out that they didn't have to do anything with the disappearance itself.

http://tinyurl.com/ysay2h

hmmmmmmmm....interesting slip of the tongue here from Rudy Ooman...

The longer they stayed in detention, the more proof came out that they didn't have to do anything with the disappearance itself

Would give credence to the statement...*how's the girl* the next day...

[MumInOhio]

when i went on vacation to islands in earlier years, (not Aruba!) there always was a place where the restaurants dumped their leftovers in the ocean each day, in order to feed the sharks, so the sharks would not be all over the tourists.
is there such a place on Aruba, and if so, where?
i cant imagine there isnt such a place to be honest.
if natalees body was dumped in the sea, which i do not think, it seems very possible to me that the body was dumped there.

Yes, we contemplated that earlier on but I don't think anyone has talked about that recently.  However, if she was in fact, bleeding, that would have been easy prey.  I hate to think in such a morose way and I am sure others do, but sometimes one has to face the reality of possibilities which are limitless, it seems on an island where human life is so devalued.

I know I have read about a place like this, but can't recall what or where it was. May have been some sort of business that is longer there, but still attracts the shark to that area. Something to do with food processing...sorry!

[Bearlyhere]

Kalpoe Discovery /Cremer Declarations filed 02/08/08

Declaration of Satish Kalpoe re:Discovery Documents 2/08/08

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/020808_SK_Discovery.pdf

Declaration of Deepak Kalpoe re:Discovery Documents02/08/08

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/020808_DK_Discovery.pdf

Declaration of William Cremer, Esq, re: Discovery Documents/Fee-Privileged 02/08/08

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/020808_CremerDeclaration.pdf

Looks like they aren't providing the early documents May - Sept 2005 because they had a different attorney and that attorney hasn't responded to their request for documents.  In otherwords, they haven't complied with the Motion to Compel, IMO.

MO, too.  Heck, if Joran can appoint himself doctor, I can appoint myself judge.  Better yet, I declare Beth a judge.

[Tylergal]

Tylergal,

I missed that, what picture?

I think it was on "my space."  I found it when looking at those Marteen pictures, the old guy who supposedly was located in the Orient but played pretty with the Aruban youth.  It was taken down toute suite but several of us saw it.  I think Klaas saw it and Anna, but not sure about others who saw it, but it was a blond girl in a bathtub bleeding profusely and twin girls standing over her sighing, "Oh, NataleeH."

[SunnyinTX]

Which attorney said ....I know he's guilty, it's up to you to prove it??  Those may not be the exact words...but close enough and I believe it was said to KJ....

Joran's attorney

thanks.....I was thinking it was deepak's attorney .....do we have that in writing anyplace