Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 - 2/13/08

[Nut44x4]

Thanks for the pics of Max...I don't think I've seen him before....

http://www.hi5.com/friend/660388--Max--Profile-html

[Bladerunner]

The pool they used to cover her with should be able to be found easily one should think. Was this pool a small kids plastic pool, I have been confused by that detail?

The pool they used to cover her with should be able to be found easily one should think. Was this pool a small kids plastic pool, I have been confused by that detail?

I know I am roboposting ... I submitted this post a while back but ... it saves me time.

Janet

+++++++++

I adhere to the theory that Natalee Holloway was placed in the landfill.

The account of Junior ... the landfill witness ... is consistent and …. with much detail was conveyed by his brother to the ALE in the first week of the investigation.  Almost two month later the same story was related to Natalee's family.  Junior provided a description of the vehicle and … he recorded a licence (tag) number. Junior identifies the location where he observed Natalee was placed and .. he described the child’s plastic pool which was used as a covering and ... the plastic pool was recovered in that location by TES/Dave Holloway almost two months later.
 
I comprehend that Junior failed the polygraph test administered by Jamie Skeeter. However … it should be noted that Junior had volunteered to take that test and … it is known that those who are afflicted with mental disorders/addictions are often very poor candidates for lie detector tests. Also … if Junior feared intimidation by the “powers that be” in Aruba … again the outcome of the polygraph would be considered inconclusive when the stress factor is considered.
 
I believe it is possible that Natalee was moved from the landfill following Junior's observation.
 
Junior's brother came forward to authorities on June 3, 2005 … two days after Junior's observation at the landfill on June 1, 2005.  When Junior came forward to Beth Twitty two months later with the same story .... ALE claimed that authorities had gone to the landfill and checked out Junior's original story and .... found nothing. I contend that .... knowing the exact location and .... after only two days had passed since the observation ... the "powers that be" would have had no difficulty locating Natalee.. I suspect that on June 3, 2005 … Natalee could have been moved as a result of Junior's observation.

I find it highly suspicious that Junior's brother came forward to authorities on June 3, 2005 regarding the happening which Junior had observed at the landfill on June 1, 2005 and ..... the Holloway and Twitty's did not find out about this witness until Junior personally contacted them two months later.
 
Inquiring minds want to know ... WHY?
[/quote]

Thanks for that.

Question: Has the video showing the white bag been dated?

[Observer]

Caesu,Did I tell you yet how nice it is to have you around..Not only here but at FOK?

voorspelbaar 

[Tamikosmom]

corpses tend to lose bodyfluids, besides i think it could smell, especially in such a warm area.i do not think it is logical they would have replaced the body.

True unless they kept her body in a freezer

The rumor is that clothing of Natalee was discovered in Lorenzo's basement.

If Natalee's remains were placed in Lorenzo's basement on May 30, 2005 ... a place where temperatures would be cooler and ... then moved to the landfill on June 1, 2005 ... we are talking three days maximum.

Junior's observation was on June 1, 2005 and ... his brother reported this observation to authorities on June 3, 2005.

I contend that Junior's observation dictated that the "powers that be" in the coverup were forced to move Natalee's remains quickly ... prior to the chance that Natalee's family would about Junior's observation.  In two days ... there would have been no difficulty locating Natalee ... especially if the childrens' pool was used as a marker.

As it turned out ... the family did not learn about this observation until almost two months later ... two months later when Junior approached them personally.  This was around the time that the pool outside the Racquet Ball Club was being drained.

TEA immediately began a search of the landfill at that time.  Dave Holloway and his father participated in the search.  The childrens' pool was located but ... no Natalee. 

Janet

++++++++++++


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 3, 20905

GRACE: And Jossy, have you heard any information regarding a search for one of those little kiddie pools?
 
MANSUR: They have been searching for that. They have found one, and they`re concentrating on that area where this witness says that when they dumped the body, they covered it with some other bags and then put this little pool on it.

GRACE: OK, I`m sorry. I didn`t hear that. Repeat, Jossy.

MANSUR: They are searching where -- they did find this -- one of these pools, this pool, and they have been searching in that specific area because we have to remember that this garbage has been moved about quite a bit from that day on by big tractors and front-end loaders and whatever.

[Anna]

And which one of the Max's is the nephew of Jossy?

I have forgotten.

.

[klaasend]

I have been thinking and as everyone knows that is  dangerous, but shouldn't all the witnesses and suspects be jumping for joy at this point?  They should all be planning Joran's thank you party.  Effectively, he has eliminated everyone that was ever rumored, speculated or suspected as being involved.  Joran confessed that it was an unfortunate accident...over which he had no control.  He thinks she had a seizure and died. Daury is MIA. The Kalpoes are released of any involvement. Koen and Sander are never mentioned. Freddy doesn't have to say anything now, since he wasn't there and what Joran told him the first time was incorrect. There was no trip to the Sloot house, Deepak and Satish did not return to the beach to pick him up. He was home on the computer before the 4 AM sighting which surely  must be a mistake now.  GVC is no longer a suspect or Guido/Marco either. No one is asking about that casino video anymore...whew! Simian and Shango and Shock and Merian are all wrong. We know for certain that the body is in the ocean and not still on land. The timeline is shot to heck and the prosecutor has been given a pretty little package to work with.  I think they should be partying with glee on Aruba...they fooled those stupid Americans again. 

Sarcasm is free....

I don't think anyone including the prosecutor is buying Joran's confession in full.   

[klaasend]

And which one of the Max's is the nephew of Jossy?

I have forgotten.

.

I don't know if either one is.   Where did you hear that info?

[Tylergal]

corpses tend to lose bodyfluids, besides i think it could smell, especially in such a warm area.i do not think it is logical they would have replaced the body.

True unless they kept her body in a freezer

Won't smell if you put lime on it regardless of the weather.

[klaasend]

Bladerunner - there is no way for us to know the exact date of the "white bag" video.  We do know that it was uploaded to the aru-bay site on June 15, 2005.

smallmovie17.mov

http://www.aru-bay.com/images/

[Tylergal]

Could this be Max?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=69879120

He look's alot like the pic that VMS posted. Also about 1 year older than Lorenzo which would be about right.

Yes, that's him too, *******!!

Doesn't look like Max to me. MOO

Is that Bibi?  Max, I thought, had pretty blue eyes.

[Nut44x4]

I know we have a lot of Dutch here...but this could perhaps be Joran   
Checking out ARUBAN & DUTCH WHO’S WHO
Note – See also WHO’S WHO – Victim, Suspects, &Family, and AMERICAN WHO’S WHO

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[Tamikosmom]

Edwin Comenencia concedes that Junior's report of Natalee being placed in the landfill was checked out but ... nothing found.  Logic dictates that if Natalee was there ... she would have been moved by those with a coverup agenda.

What I find highly suspicious ... Natalee's family were never informed of Junior's observation of June 1, 2005.  The observation at the landfill was not found out until two months later when Junior contacted them personally with the same story ... the same story with included the childrens' pool.

Janet

++++++++++++


Tim Miller
The Decatur Daily
July 31, 2005

Miller said the witness claimed to have seen the men dumping the body on the afternoon of June 1.  The witness, an Aruban man who claimed to be dropping off trash at the time of the incident, has been questioned by the FBI and Aruban police, Miller said. "He said he saw a face, blond hair and a woman's chest, and that the body was dumped and covered," Miller said. “his story has been consistent.“ The witness could not identify the men but said they were driving a light-colored Jeep, Miller said. The witness told his brother what he saw soon afterward, and the brother told police, he said.  Police spokesman Edwin Comenencia said police searched the landfill after receiving the tip in days following Holloway's disappearance, but found nothing. He said the witness recently approached Holloway's family, who asked for another search.

[Nut44x4]

this was the google search of the above
http://www.google.com/search?q=aruba%20police%20cvp&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

[dennisintn]

I think Peter R. DeVries statement about Antiono Carlo / Karin Jannsen
is important as well as Jossy's tape of Dompig. The Prosecution has
to want to solve the case.  It is the Prosecution's job to present these
things to the Judges.  I do not think KJ ever presented half of the
evidence she had to the judges in order to protect the Sloots.
Of course the corrupt judges would ignore evidence anyway.

Then there is the little matter of the lawyer of Joran's (ex?) hiring the father PVS into his law firm.  Was he afraid not to.  Did they put PVS in there to keep an eye on Carlos?  I bet Carlos is so afraid of that bunch he has to wear Depends to keep from peeing his pants.      jack b

There is another little matter of Joran's personal lawyer, Antonio Carlo, sitting on the Board Selection Committee of A.H.A.T.A. in December of 2005. Is this why the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association chose the strategy of attacking Natalee and Beth in an effort to save the Van der Sloots?

ahata chose to attack the family and natalee within days of her disappearance. aruba steve, and his crowd were all ready lying about what was going on and encourage the radio stations to "fight back" by contacting time share owners and others to do whatever they could to get natalee's family to leave.  the "shut up, go home, and get over it" policy of aruba's finest.
dennisintn

[Observer]

Edwin Comenencia concedes that Junior's report of Natalee being placed in the landfill was checked out but ... nothing found.  Logic dictates that if Natalee was there ... she would have been moved by those with a coverup agenda.

What I find highly suspicious ... Natalee's family were never informed of Junior's observation of June 1, 2005.  The observation at the landfill was not found out until two months later when Junior contacted them personally with the same story ... the same story with included the childrens' pool.

[/color]

No,They were busy at that time searching crack houses and other areas led by Julia Renfro,Jacobs and Van Der Straaten. A few days later most of the tips were about Van Loon,who we read about in Beth's book. Nothing was told to them at that time about the Landfill witness or even Fransisco the guy that says he helped bury Natalee in a shallow grave with two others who used a white PU.

[JusticeforNatalee]

Hi, everyone,

Jug really came out with all guns blasting last night on Nancy Grace's show!

Was a full transcript of the show ever posted?

[imnoangel]

caesu, im reading at fok! that you are trying your best to grow some awareness over there.
it is far too much to tell them in a few sentences.
tell them to take the time to read at scareymonkeys,then they can make up their own mind. if they still do not believe you then, its upto their own ignorance.
thanks for making an effort though.

[caesu]

<snipped>

so today peter r. showed the written agreement in another program.

but for the reputation of a crime reporter it is crucial to back words up by evidence.
that's is exactly what peter r. is about.
so you can bet your entire bank account on the fact that he has nailed joran.

this is a big story on the forums, blogs and a newspaper in the netherlands.
it all comes back to the reputation, credibility of peter r.

caesu - Peter may be facing the same kind of dis-information campaign and disrespect that Natalee's family faced. Hell hath no fury like Aruba cornered.

But I'm sure he'll weather it gracefully - as did Beth, Dave et al ...

maybe i am thinking too far ahead.
but if this mess gets totally exposed the balkenende government looses al credibilty and will have to resign.
only one political party calls aruba corrupt and spoke out for natalee.
that party will most likely win the election or at least grow very large.
most media hate this political party because it speaks out so bluntly about different topics.
and now peter r. got a virtual ticker-tape parade in the USA.
so really they are so jealous and hate his guts.
just like what peter r. wrote on his blog yesterday:

What me also surprised is that the announcers scatter very generous with compliments in their show. A couple time in several programme’s  has been said that one ‘is’ jealous on these scoop and that them that complete gladly itself would have wanted make.

That does not happen in the Netherlands. Yes, if they must persuade you to come, but if the prerecordings start, they drink rapidly a glass vinegar and then the interview starts.  (meaning in holland they won't say they are jealous - but are that anyway)

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/peterrdevries/article2040926.ece

[Kiwi]

I have to say the possibility of the ALE finding any evidence was unlikely. If you look at the most active portions of their search, the attempted draining of the pond. That was to look for what? What statement or information lead them to put all their efforts there? Instead we have a box of items found scattered all over the island by volunteers. Sorry just venting about that second call to Joran's lawyer for a hint on finding evidence.

[Observer]

caesu, im reading at fok! that you are trying your best to grow some awareness over there.
it is far too much to tell them in a few sentences.
tell them to take the time to read at scareymonkeys,then they can make up their own mind. if they still do not believe you then, its upto their own ignorance.
thanks for making an effort though.

I have posted much at FOK and have received many questions privately. I think some are starting to catch on.