Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 - 2/13/08

[Destiny]

I believe this post was made by Charles Croes on an Aruban message board:
06-16-2006, 04:45 PM
Re: Sharks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aruba has had shark sightings however the history of shark attacks is extremely minimal. Unless brought on by an abnormal behavior pattern, sharks are not inclined to go swimming in our hotels areas.

The north coast of the island has had sharks in the past due to a historic meat dumping site at Boca Mahos (Ugly Mouth) , however attacks were never a common thing

be well

charles
arubafastphones.com

http://www.aruba.com/forum/f7/sharks-5102/

Thank you Pita.

Is th Boca Mahos area in close proximity to the Boca Tortuga area?

If Natalee was taken out to sea ... I believe that it happened following the landfill witness' brother reporting Junior's June 1, 2005  observation to Aruban authorities on June 3, 2005.

I speculate that she would have been taken out to sea on the east side of the island ... the Boca Tortuga area.  This is the area where a shallow grave was discovered ... not too far from the water ... and the fabric that appears to a swatch from Natalee's blouse.

My theory in a nutshell ... omitting backup links ... includes all seven suspects as well as Freddy and Lorenzo.

Janet

+++++++++++

OCKHAM'S RAZOR
"You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."

1.  Freddy is waiting at the VDS' residence ... with his camera ... when Satish, Deepak and Joran arrive with a drugged Natalee after leaving Carlos 'N Charles'.

2.  Guido arrives in a separate vehicle at approximately the same time.

3.  A sexual assault ensues.

4.  In an attempt to escape a gang rape Natalee sustains a head injury administred by Guido.

5.  The decision is made to take Natalee to the beach where she can sleep it off and ... make her own way to the HI in time to catch her flight back home.

6.  Freddy remains at the VDS' residence.

7.  Joran, Deepak and Guildo ... enroute to the beach ... drop Satish off at home.

8.  Deepak drops off Joran, Guido and a "passed out" Natalee at the beach while he parks his vehicle a short distance away at the tennis club.

9.  However ... Guido and Joran realize that Natalee is deceased (appears deceased). 

10.  Leaving a what appears to be a deceased Natalee hidden in the mangrove bushes ... Joran and Guido run across the street to where Deepak is waiting.

11.  A panicked discussion ensues.  When it is considered that Joran, Deepak and Satish were observed leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's  ... the injury and the DNA evidence on Natalee's person could be very incriminating.

12.  Paulus is contacted.

13.  The gardener enters the picture.  He observes Joran, Deepak and Guildo in the parked vehicle.

14.  Paulus arrives and ... accesses the situation.

15.  Assistance in moving a deceased Natalee is required.  GVC and Steve Croes are contacted.

16.  Deepak and Guido leave the scene.

17.  Joran is sent home walking to create an alibi.

18.  Natalee is placed in a white beach parol pickup and driven to Lorenzo's home and ... place in his basement..

19.  On June 1, 2005 ... Junior observes Natalee being taken from a white pickup and placed in the landfill.

++++++++++++++++++++

Janet....works for me...well thought out!  I saw you posted a simular version..or, maybe even this one yesterday, I think....it is very thought provoking...as it still keeps Lorenzo in the mix...I know...stubborn aren't I...

[Tamikosmom]

Hi, everyone,

Jug really came out with all guns blasting last night on Nancy Grace's show!

Was a full transcript of the show ever posted?

 


NANCY GRACE: FEATURING MR. JUG TWITTY
Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O7ApQQi5IU
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRVij3iCzH8
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EndajyysbLI
Part4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4a0q9EWqv4
Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykPb5f9AUwM

Thank you *******.  Thank you Carpe.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/11/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE
Joran Re-Arrest Ruling Postponed
Aired February 11, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

Guest: Jug Twitty

[imnoangel]

i hope they do, *******. i have read the posts of the one in aruba adressing caesu.
i know the arubans do not get very much media info but i just get so terribly irritated when i see this ignorance and stubborness

ik hoop dat ze dat doen, *******.ik heb de posts van die ene in aruba gelezen in reactie op caesu. ik weet inmiddels dat de arubanen een hoop programmaas niet kunnen ontvangen en er eigenlijk niet zo heel veel van afweten. maar van dit soort eigenwijzige domheid wordt ik helemaal kriebelig. als je je kop in het zand wil steken zit je goed in aruba.

[BTgirl]

caesu, im reading at fok! that you are trying your best to grow some awareness over there.
it is far too much to tell them in a few sentences.
tell them to take the time to read at scareymonkeys,then they can make up their own mind. if they still do not believe you then, its upto their own ignorance.
thanks for making an effort though.

I absolutely love this name! 

I would much rather be a scarey monkey than a scared monkey. 

Thanks imnoangel for the name. It's what I'm gonna call us from now on.

[Anna]

And which one of the Max's is the nephew of Jossy?

I have forgotten.

.

I don't know if either one is.   Where did you hear that info?

Very early and I can't recall now but the mother of one is the sister or niece of Jossy.  I think it is the one who went to college in Florida.

.

[JusticeforNatalee]

Thanks, Janet!

[Observer]

i hope they do, *******. i have read the posts of the one in aruba adressing caesu.
i know the arubans do not get very much media info but i just get so terribly irritated when i see this ignorance and stubborness

ik hoop dat ze dat doen, *******.ik heb de posts van die ene in aruba gelezen in reactie op caesu. ik weet inmiddels dat de arubanen een hoop programmaas niet kunnen ontvangen en er eigenlijk niet zo heel veel van afweten. maar van dit soort eigenwijzige domheid wordt ik helemaal kriebelig. als je je kop in het zand wil steken zit je goed in aruba.

Yes,they dont know very much but there is a couple as expected that have another agenda. Promoting Julia Renfro and Rene'e Gielen,Problem is for them its all BS and lies,and its not gonna fly with no proof.

[imnoangel]

whahahaha LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::that was MY slip of the tongue whahahaha didnt notice that untill you mentioned it LOL

[cubbeegirl]

caesu, im reading at fok! that you are trying your best to grow some awareness over there.
it is far too much to tell them in a few sentences.
tell them to take the time to read at scareymonkeys,then they can make up their own mind. if they still do not believe you then, its upto their own ignorance.
thanks for making an effort though.

I absolutely love this name! 

I would much rather be a scarey monkey than a scared monkey. 

Thanks imnoangel for the name. It's what I'm gonna call us from now on.

LMAO..... me too BT!

[BTgirl]

whahahaha LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::that was MY slip of the tongue whahahaha didnt notice that untill you mentioned it LOL

You did good! I like it a lot!!

[Anna]

By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail
Natalee Holloway's parents are anxiously awaiting news from Holland about whether the chief suspect in her disappearance will be re-arrested.

A three judge panel is now considering an appeal from Aruba's chief prosecutor.

He's asking the three judge panel to overrule a single judge who is refusing to allow Van Der Sloot to be re-arrested.

Investigators in Aruba questioned Joran Van der Sloot on Friday in connection with the Natalee Holloway disappearance and his secretly taped video confession.

Prosecutors said he again denied any role in the teen's disappearance more than two and a-half years ago on the Dutch Caribbean island.

According to the prosecutor's office, Van der Sloot claimed that he had been under the influence of marijuana when he said in a secretly taped video that he had been with Holloway when she died.

In the video, he said that he'd had a friend dump her body at sea.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2008-02-11-0018.html

[caesu]

caesu, im reading at fok! that you are trying your best to grow some awareness over there.
it is far too much to tell them in a few sentences.
tell them to take the time to read at scareymonkeys,then they can make up their own mind. if they still do not believe you then, its upto their own ignorance.
thanks for making an effort though.

difficult thing with scaredmonkeys is that there's so much information.
and it is so overwhelming and such a big mess (i mean the van der sloot-screw up)
that people think, well that's a very good script for a movie - but i am not buying that.
also it is not nice to realize that this is going on in our country/kingdom.
so people don't look further.

but i think more and more people are seeing what's going on.
yesterday is spoke to a few people and they were all talking about a kiss on 'boer zoekt vrouw'.
i confronted them with a few news stories and linked them together.
they were amazed.

i think peter r. de vries is a beter poker player than joran and all the others.
he knows how to play the media both here and international.
i am sure al the 24/7 news channels got his number maybe he even has a satellite link-up.
if he makes a press release he can go breaking news on al news networks.
but he has to play his cards right. he would never say something he can't back up.
of course you know this, but americans don't know him that well as we do.

only thing i worry a little bit about is that he cannot find the exact right words like he would do dutch.
i mean if he goes on a show together with an american lawyer, i think the lawyer might take advantage with difficult tricky words...

[Anna]

caesu,

I don't think the TV lawyers know any difficult or tricky words!  They are a pretty weak group, in my opinion.

 

I think Peter R can handle them well.  If he doesn't understand he should just ask and they would have to say it another way.

He did really, really well in all the interviews that I saw and I think I caught all of his.

.

[caesu]

caesu, im reading at fok! that you are trying your best to grow some awareness over there.
it is far too much to tell them in a few sentences.
tell them to take the time to read at scareymonkeys,then they can make up their own mind. if they still do not believe you then, its upto their own ignorance.
thanks for making an effort though.

I have posted much at FOK and have received many questions privately. I think some are starting to catch on.

yes they are.
the comments they make now are really so predictable indeed.
i've got for almost every comment another one ready to nail them.

[imnoangel]

i agree, caesu, but peter knows judicial terms and he is not ashamed to ask for further explanation if he doesn t understand what someone is saying.
you are right that he did a great job but let us not forget he is not in it for anything else then to make money out of it because this is what he does for a living.
so though i think he did a good job, i trust he  does his work very thoroughly, i am positive he knows more and will use that knowledge to nail whoever is behind natalees death, i also look at him sceptical, he is no hero.

[Bladerunner]

Bladerunner - there is no way for us to know the exact date of the "white bag" video.  We do know that it was uploaded to the aru-bay site on June 15, 2005.

smallmovie17.mov

http://www.aru-bay.com/images/

Perhaps though there is a way to eliminate the days that is was likely not shot. By this I mean, if you look at the video it appears there is a very strong wind coming off the ocean--as you can see the ripples in the water--and a distinctive cloud cover on that day. One should at least be able and go back and find out which days prior to the 15th of June had similar conditions and/or conditions that could not have possibly existed on that day, at that particular time--full sun, no clouds for example.

I'm not familiar with the weather in Aruba, so maybe the wind is always like that, but my guess would be that there is variation. Also--and I can't get the video to load right now--one should be able to pinpoint the time of day based on the position of the sun and the cast of various shadows.

Here is the weatherunderground almanac for Aruba on June 3, 2005:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/station/78982/2005/6/3/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

[Anna]

2.12.2008

Court of Justice has to hear Joran’s lawyers
DIARIO Aruba
02/12/2008


ORANJESTAD (AAN) — The last release that Aruban criminal authorities, the Public Ministry, has released and that came to light yesterday, gave more reason to start thinking whether criminal authorities really know how the justice system works in Aruba.

Last week they told the press that they expect the judge’s decision to see if Joran will be re-detained on the basis of the interrogations that took place in Holland. They did not explain that the process will proceed on the basis of rules for a case that has gone into appeal and in which Joran van der Sloot’s attorney’s must be heard, that according to experts to say that he was under the influence of drugs when he made his statements. How can a person under the influence of drugs be heard, authorities demonstrated last year in the case of an addict in Aruba.

When the judge handed down the verdict, one of the parties involved appealed the decision. This means that they asked the Court of Justice to hear the case, which has to be treated as any other case. There are accusations and there is a defense.

The press release by criminal authorities created the impression that when the interrogation of van der Sloot ended in Holland, the judge was to decide if he’s to be re-detained. It seemed that the judge just had to allow Joran van der Sloot to be detained.

In reality, a case in appeal has to be tried again by the Court of Justice and not only with one judge. Criminal authorities present their accusations and the reason for which they believe that the decision of the judge of first instance has to be revoked. The accused has the right to the same defense that he had a right to after the judge’s decision for him to appeal the decision.

The information from the Public Ministry took away the legal path from view and created a different impression until yesterday, when criminal authorities again issued a press release to clear up one and another thing and put into perspective the manner in which the justice system functions.

Yesterday, criminal authorities – the Public Ministry – announced that contrary to other information, it could not be expected that yesterday, Monday February 11, the court would hand down a decision in its favour in the case that they appealed against the judge commissioner’s decision to refuse the detention of Joran van der Sloot.
The court of justice said that they will take a decision after February 13, since the attorney of Joran van der Sloot has until February 13, 2008 to give his point of view in the case that has been appealed. The Public Ministry again concluded in its press release that until the court has decided, it could not give any comment.

The question remains if the functioning of the justice system is not known by Aruban criminal authorities, who had problems in proving their accusations against Joran van der Sloot, who they detained on the basis of ‘new information’, who could not prove what Joran, who kept his mouth shut, did.

According to experts, it can be expected that Joran van der Sloot’s attorneys will say the same thing that Joran himself has said, that he was under the influence of drugs when he made the statements to de Vries. What does this mean? Could he be held responsible for his words that he spoke under the influence of drugs?

[translated by Getagrip]



Posted by Getagrip at 2/12/2008 04:22:00 PM   



http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/court-of-justice-has-to-hear-jorans.html

[klaasend]

REMINDER - TOMORROW NIGHT ON DANA PRETZER RADIO

BETH HOLLOWAY
&
PETER R. DEVRIES

9PM ET
www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

[Tamikosmom]

Janet....works for me...well thought out!  I saw you posted a simular version..or, maybe even this one yesterday, I think....it is very thought provoking...as it still keeps Lorenzo in the mix...I know...stubborn aren't I...

Thanks

I believe that it was Lorenzo's boat that was used to take Natalee out to sea on the east side of the Island.  The Boca Tortuga area where the shallow grave was located and ... a swatch of fabric that appeared to be off of Natalee's blouse.

Janet

++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2006

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, Lorenzo is a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18

[caesu]

By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail
Natalee Holloway's parents are anxiously awaiting news from Holland about whether the chief suspect in her disappearance will be re-arrested.

A three judge panel is now considering an appeal from Aruba's chief prosecutor.

He's asking the three judge panel to overrule a single judge who is refusing to allow Van Der Sloot to be re-arrested.

Investigators in Aruba questioned Joran Van der Sloot on Friday in connection with the Natalee Holloway disappearance and his secretly taped video confession.

Prosecutors said he again denied any role in the teen's disappearance more than two and a-half years ago on the Dutch Caribbean island.

According to the prosecutor's office, Van der Sloot claimed that he had been under the influence of marijuana when he said in a secretly taped video that he had been with Holloway when she died.

In the video, he said that he'd had a friend dump her body at sea.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2008-02-11-0018.html

this claim is so totally nuts.
if a judge goes for that he must be under the influence as well.
on top of that: joran called a judge stupid (hij is dooooooooooooom.............)
i mean come on.
total disrespect for the judiciary for someone brought up in a family with a father studying to became judge.
and then his parents saying that he is such a sweet little kid.

i don't know how much BS they can pull out of that ditch.
a lot of old cows must be shitting their pants as we speak.