Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 - 2/13/08

[bleachedblack]

Thinking outloud.......Daryanani = Daury?

[klaasend]

This may have already been posted.  Translated through google:

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2047709.ece

Drugsexperts roads Jorans words
By PETER DE KNEGT

ARUBA - Aruba Drugsexperts examine the reliability of the statements from Joran van der Sloot.
 
That is what the experts at the request of the public prosecutor.

Joran said last Friday during eenverhoor that his "confessions" about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in the TV programme, Peter R. De Vries were concocted under the influence of marijuana.

According Dop Kruimel, persofficier on Aruba, designate the first findings of experts and users do not indicate that someone stories verzint if he has used drugs. ,, This is the story of Joran for the Public Ministry is indeed an important steunbewijs in our further research. Also, we are waiting on reports from experts on how Natalee Holloway according Joran is deceased.''

The OM on Aruba after the broadcast of Peter R. De Vries' program 25 detectives on the case Holloway put. For the broadcast that there were only four.

Also, according to the PPS Kruimel many tips by mail and e-mail. Kruimel: "We certainly think that it is possible to resolve the matter.''

Last week, the detectives went to work with the instructions of Joran themselves and with the many suggestions that have arrived. Kruimel will not say what has been extracted.

Kruimel fights the vision of lawyer Spong that the film is illegal and therefore can not be used in criminal proceedings.

[dennisintn]

Edwin Comenencia concedes that Junior's report of Natalee being placed in the landfill was checked out but ... nothing found.  Logic dictates that if Natalee was there ... she would have been moved by those with a coverup agenda.

What I find highly suspicious ... Natalee's family were never informed of Junior's observation of June 1, 2005.  The observation at the landfill was not found out until two months later when Junior contacted them personally with the same story ... the same story with included the childrens' pool.

[/color]

No,They were busy at that time searching crack houses and other areas led by Julia Renfro,Jacobs and Van Der Straaten. A few days later most of the tips were about Van Loon,who we read about in Beth's book. Nothing was told to them at that time about the Landfill witness or even Fransisco the guy that says he helped bury Natalee in a shallow grave with two others who used a white PU.

a long time ago, i read about the a.l.e. checking out the landfill.  sounded like a "drive-thru" and natalee didn't jump up on the hood of the cruiser so he concluded that she wasn't there.
dennisintn

[vms]

Hi Everyone,

well ummmm, look at the bright side.

Remember Taco's client from NJ got life without parole..whoooohoooo

Taco is the last person Joran needs but lets not tell Joran that...LOL

My opinion of course...

MOO

OS

  True.

[Buckeye]

This may have already been posted.  Translated through google:

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2047709.ece

Drugsexperts roads Jorans words
By PETER DE KNEGT

ARUBA - Aruba Drugsexperts examine the reliability of the statements from Joran van der Sloot.
 
That is what the experts at the request of the public prosecutor.

Joran said last Friday during eenverhoor that his "confessions" about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in the TV programme, Peter R. De Vries were concocted under the influence of marijuana.

According Dop Kruimel, persofficier on Aruba, designate the first findings of experts and users do not indicate that someone stories verzint if he has used drugs. ,, This is the story of Joran for the Public Ministry is indeed an important steunbewijs in our further research. Also, we are waiting on reports from experts on how Natalee Holloway according Joran is deceased.''

The OM on Aruba after the broadcast of Peter R. De Vries' program 25 detectives on the case Holloway put. For the broadcast that there were only four.

Also, according to the PPS Kruimel many tips by mail and e-mail. Kruimel: "We certainly think that it is possible to resolve the matter.''

Last week, the detectives went to work with the instructions of Joran themselves and with the many suggestions that have arrived. Kruimel will not say what has been extracted.

Kruimel fights the vision of lawyer Spong that the film is illegal and therefore can not be used in criminal proceedings.

I will definitely agree that that island has plenty of Drug experts.  Not to mention witness statements of drug dealers.   

[Rob]

I got an early court room transcription . . . . shhhh I know the stenographer.

Tacopina : your honor, we all know my client has a problem telling the truth. We had character witness after character witness step forward today and only Mrs Kalpoe said Joran was a good boy. We all know her reputation. I plead with the court to accept my findings that Joran van der Sloot can not be trusted to tell the truth. He can not be trusted. I implore you! Heed my words.

Judge : this is highly unusual. We do not generally hear the defense attorney argue that their client is a habitual liar.

Tacopina : I realize that your honor. This is an unusual case with a very very unusual defendant. And I mean that in all sincerity. Just look at him.

Judge : excuse me Mr. Tacopina, he looks stoned right now. Is he?

Tacopina : I would ask him, but I'm not sure I would get an honest answer.

Judge : hmmm, this is unusual. Let's see, he lies and he lies and he lies?

Tacopina : yes your honor, he does.

Judge : and he smokes a lot of marijuana?

Tacopina : and he gambles alot.

Judge : he gambles alot?

Tacopina : haven't you seen exhibit A through L? those are his internet gambling entries.

Judge : Oh, gambling and lying and marijuana use. This doesn't look good. And you are trying to convince us that this very very special needs client is not responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and was lying in fact in the confession tapes?

Tacopina? Pretty please!

Judge : case dismissed.

[Buckeye]

Edwin Comenencia concedes that Junior's report of Natalee being placed in the landfill was checked out but ... nothing found.  Logic dictates that if Natalee was there ... she would have been moved by those with a coverup agenda.

What I find highly suspicious ... Natalee's family were never informed of Junior's observation of June 1, 2005.  The observation at the landfill was not found out until two months later when Junior contacted them personally with the same story ... the same story with included the childrens' pool.

[/color]

No,They were busy at that time searching crack houses and other areas led by Julia Renfro,Jacobs and Van Der Straaten. A few days later most of the tips were about Van Loon,who we read about in Beth's book. Nothing was told to them at that time about the Landfill witness or even Fransisco the guy that says he helped bury Natalee in a shallow grave with two others who used a white PU.

a long time ago, i read about the a.l.e. checking out the landfill.  sounded like a "drive-thru" and natalee didn't jump up on the hood of the cruiser so he concluded that she wasn't there.
dennisintn

Doesn't the landfill eventually dump the trash into the ocean.....that would be after the fires....??

[Observer]

HI BB:

My Opinion is Joran just made up the name after he ran into Daury after he was released from Prison in Aruba in December. He never thought he was being taped but he for sure did not want to tell this Patrick that his Father and a lifelong friend were involved. This is probably the first person he didn't know well that he told all this to. He described Daury and confessed some things to Patrick,but he thought about what he did and when Patrick asked him the name of the person he had it all planned out and answered him in one second. In there meeting before that he said he would take the name to the grave with him and never tell. I believe that to be true.

Daury = PVDS & Koen or Lorenzo (I believe it is Lorenzo)

[Sam]

I did not take time to read back and see if this was posted already. Getagrips latest translation. Thanks Getagrip.

2.12.2008

Court of Justice has to hear Joran’s lawyers
DIARIO Aruba
02/12/2008

ORANJESTAD (AAN) — The last release that Aruban criminal authorities, the Public Ministry, has released and that came to light yesterday, gave more reason to start thinking whether criminal authorities really know how the justice system works in Aruba.

Last week they told the press that they expect the judge’s decision to see if Joran will be re-detained on the basis of the interrogations that took place in Holland. They did not explain that the process will proceed on the basis of rules for a case that has gone into appeal and in which Joran van der Sloot’s attorney’s must be heard, that according to experts to say that he was under the influence of drugs when he made his statements. How can a person under the influence of drugs be heard, authorities demonstrated last year in the case of an addict in Aruba.

When the judge handed down the verdict, one of the parties involved appealed the decision. This means that they asked the Court of Justice to hear the case, which has to be treated as any other case. There are accusations and there is a defense.

The press release by criminal authorities created the impression that when the interrogation of van der Sloot ended in Holland, the judge was to decide if he’s to be re-detained. It seemed that the judge just had to allow Joran van der Sloot to be detained.

In reality, a case in appeal has to be tried again by the Court of Justice and not only with one judge. Criminal authorities present their accusations and the reason for which they believe that the decision of the judge of first instance has to be revoked. The accused has the right to the same defense that he had a right to after the judge’s decision for him to appeal the decision.

The information from the Public Ministry took away the legal path from view and created a different impression until yesterday, when criminal authorities again issued a press release to clear up one and another thing and put into perspective the manner in which the justice system functions.
Yesterday, criminal authorities – the Public Ministry – announced that contrary to other information, it could not be expected that yesterday, Monday February 11, the court would hand down a decision in its favour in the case that they appealed against the judge commissioner’s decision to refuse the detention of Joran van der Sloot.

The court of justice said that they will take a decision after February 13, since the attorney of Joran van der Sloot has until February 13, 2008 to give his point of view in the case that has been appealed. The Public Ministry again concluded in its press release that until the court has decided, it could not give any comment.

The question remains if the functioning of the justice system is not known by Aruban criminal authorities, who had problems in proving their accusations against Joran van der Sloot, who they detained on the basis of ‘new information’, who could not prove what Joran, who kept his mouth shut, did.

According to experts, it can be expected that Joran van der Sloot’s attorneys will say the same thing that Joran himself has said, that he was under the influence of drugs when he made the statements to de Vries. What does this mean? Could he be held responsible for his words that he spoke under the influence of drugs?

[translated by Getagrip]

Posted by Getagrip at 2/12/2008 04:22:00 PM

2.11.2008

[Buckeye]

Ava

Don't know why JanVDS took the Wyndam tape statement.  That's interesting.  I do remember that the talk was that Joran could not be found on the tape, Monday night, when he was suppose to be at the casino, but dressed in the manner of body disposal.

hmmmm

[MuffyBee]

Hi Everyone,

well ummmm, look at the bright side.

Remember Taco's client from NJ got life without parole..whoooohoooo

Taco is the last person Joran needs but lets not tell Joran that...LOL

My opinion of course...

MOO

OS

Hi OS    It's good to see you posting again.  I missed seeing you around the cage there for a bit.  Yes, I agree with you about Taco being the last person Joran needs.  I won't tell him, that's for certain.

[Observer]

[/color]

a long time ago, i read about the a.l.e. checking out the landfill.  sounded like a "drive-thru" and natalee didn't jump up on the hood of the cruiser so he concluded that she wasn't there.
dennisintn

Doesn't the landfill eventually dump the trash into the ocean.....that would be after the fires....??

Good question..I think they send it to another country,like Venezuela. If she was in that hellhole we will never know However I think Tamikosmom is correct,if Natalee was there she was moved.

[Destiny]

Janet....works for me...well thought out!  I saw you posted a simular version..or, maybe even this one yesterday, I think....it is very thought provoking...as it still keeps Lorenzo in the mix...I know...stubborn aren't I...

Thanks

I believe that it was Lorenzo's boat that was used to take Natalee out to sea on the east side of the Island.  The Boca Tortuga area where the shallow grave was located and ... a swatch of fabric that appeared to be off of Natalee's blouse.

Janet

++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2006

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, Lorenzo is a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18

Yep..I've been thinking this for 2 years....and I do believe the school bus driver who testified to police that he picked up Joran at the bus stop near Lorenzo's house the day after Natalee went missing.  ONLY MY OPINION but I also think Natalee was taken to a *private* rave party at Lorenzo's house the night she left C&C's with the pimps....taken to the underground night club in the basement of his house...and I still believe that somewhere there is a film/video of what happenend in that basement somewhere...I also don't believe that Natalee died that night...I have a nagging feeling that she might have even still been alive when her parent's arrived on the island...damn...I sound pretty crazy don't I...need more coffee...heading back to corner, facing wall...

[Sam]

I got an early court room transcription . . . . shhhh I know the stenographer.

Tacopina : your honor, we all know my client has a problem telling the truth. We had character witness after character witness step forward today and only Mrs Kalpoe said Joran was a good boy. We all know her reputation. I plead with the court to accept my findings that Joran van der Sloot can not be trusted to tell the truth. He can not be trusted. I implore you! Heed my words.

Judge : this is highly unusual. We do not generally hear the defense attorney argue that their client is a habitual liar.

Tacopina : I realize that your honor. This is an unusual case with a very very unusual defendant. And I mean that in all sincerity. Just look at him.

Judge : excuse me Mr. Tacopina, he looks stoned right now. Is he?

Tacopina : I would ask him, but I'm not sure I would get an honest answer.

Judge : hmmm, this is unusual. Let's see, he lies and he lies and he lies?

Tacopina : yes your honor, he does.

Judge : and he smokes a lot of marijuana?

Tacopina : and he gambles alot.

Judge : he gambles alot?

Tacopina : haven't you seen exhibit A through L? those are his internet gambling entries.

Judge : Oh, gambling and lying and marijuana use. This doesn't look good. And you are trying to convince us that this very very special needs client is not responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and was lying in fact in the confession tapes?

Tacopina? Pretty please!

Judge : case dismissed.

Rob ,that would be funny if it were not so true and sad.

I know you were not trying to make it funny.

[klaasend]

I got an early court room transcription . . . . shhhh I know the stenographer.

Tacopina : your honor, we all know my client has a problem telling the truth. We had character witness after character witness step forward today and only Mrs Kalpoe said Joran was a good boy. We all know her reputation. I plead with the court to accept my findings that Joran van der Sloot can not be trusted to tell the truth. He can not be trusted. I implore you! Heed my words.

Judge : this is highly unusual. We do not generally hear the defense attorney argue that their client is a habitual liar.

Tacopina : I realize that your honor. This is an unusual case with a very very unusual defendant. And I mean that in all sincerity. Just look at him.

Judge : excuse me Mr. Tacopina, he looks stoned right now. Is he?

Tacopina : I would ask him, but I'm not sure I would get an honest answer.

Judge : hmmm, this is unusual. Let's see, he lies and he lies and he lies?

Tacopina : yes your honor, he does.

Judge : and he smokes a lot of marijuana?

Tacopina : and he gambles alot.

Judge : he gambles alot?

Tacopina : haven't you seen exhibit A through L? those are his internet gambling entries.

Judge : Oh, gambling and lying and marijuana use. This doesn't look good. And you are trying to convince us that this very very special needs client is not responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and was lying in fact in the confession tapes?

Tacopina? Pretty please!

Judge : case dismissed.

 

[bleachedblack]

Couple questions - Does anyone have any word or clues as to what really happened to Joran's shoes?  My guess is that Natalee either vomited on his shoes or hit her head and bled on them...but that is specualtion.  There was word of one shoe found - ever any more talk on that shoe?  Also, there was rumor that someone found a broken cell phone, fixed
[listed as "ShinkinMonk"...but meant it to be "ShrinkingMonk" - any idea how I can fix that?]

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!  (Joran, Rot in.....)

The shoes have always been a question for me too and I agree, Natalee most likely either vomited or there was blood on them.

Haven't heard any verified info on the cell phone but I doubt it will turn out to be anything.

Welcome!

There is another point with regard to the missing sneakers that is important and has been speculated on widely in the past, and that is did joran loose one shoe or two? One missing shoe in my mind implies loss, where with 2 missing shoes the reasons can vary. As I recall in the earlier months of the investigation it was reported that ALE was infact looking for one missing shoe.

>>>>>SNIP


LACLE reported on 7-26 that at about 6:30 PM, six or seven ARUBAN firefighters were ordered by the ARUBAN police to start draining a large pond that is very close (a couple 100 yard) just north of the “Marriott Hotel” and very close to the spot where the gardener witness stated he saw the 3 Main Suspects at 2:30 AM to 3:00 AM on 5-30. It could take at least 24 hours and as long as a week to drain the pond using filtered pumps operating at 3000 gallons per minute. The pond is estimated to be 700’ long and 400’ wide. Speculation is because of the high suction power of the 8” hoses being used that authorities are looking for other physical evidence--perhaps someone’s clothing and/or shoe(s) and/or flip-flops-- but are not looking for a body that could be severely compromised if caught in a filter by the high pressure pump.

LACLE said 7-27 that his sources believe that the ARUBAN police are looking in the pond for a missing tennis shoe sneaker that belongs to Principal Suspect J. SLOOT. (AMERICAN retired homicide detective MARK FUHRMAN theorized that if the pond was low on water on 5-30 that the pond bottom would be muddy, and if someone was doing something in the pond mud/muck that a shoe could easily have gotten stuck in the mud and subsequently come off someone’s foot)

On 7-31 J. MANSUR said that the police are looking for a size 14, brand “K-Swiss,” expensive tennis shoe that Principal Suspect J. SLOOT was missing, and had tried to buy a single same tennis shoe of in the 10+ days before his arrest. The police think the tennis shoe may be in/near the pond.


http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

[Observer]

Destiny:

Not crazy at all,My speculations/theory is very close to yours and Tamikosmom's. I am sure others here agree as well. But,She had to be at that VDS home at one time or another,So PVDS was picking them up at 4am or dropping them off. Something bad happened at Lorenzo's or the sloot house.MO

[bleachedblack]

HI BB:

My Opinion is Joran just made up the name after he ran into Daury after he was released from Prison in Aruba in December. He never thought he was being taped but he for sure did not want to tell this Patrick that his Father and a lifelong friend were involved. This is probably the first person he didn't know well that he told all this to. He described Daury and confessed some things to Patrick,but he thought about what he did and when Patrick asked him the name of the person he had it all planned out and answered him in one second. In there meeting before that he said he would take the name to the grave with him and never tell. I believe that to be true.

Daury = PVDS & Koen or Lorenzo (I believe it is Lorenzo)

I am sure you are right......the sounds/similarity just struck me.

[vms]

 

Lol, Klaas. 


Call: 1-800-SAVE-MY-A$$ 

[jackb]

Does anyone know of a Family named Daryanani on Aruba?

Saw it earlier today on link on her listing members of the lions and who sponsored who.  It is on todays sm postings.    jack