Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 - 2/13/08

[BUCKSHOT]

Additionally, on this board and within the past week, a poster said it is alleged that someone saw a very muddy Joran VanDerSloot the same evening NH disappeared.

Has this been confirmed or not??

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_39663.php

Through google translator:

Court decides later on arrest Joran
February 12, 2008, 19:42 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD - The Joint Court of Justice of the Dutch Antilles and Aruba is not for tomorrow ruling on a possible detention of Joran van der Sloot. Specified is that the Dutch lawyer of the suspect of murder of Natalee Holloway until Wednesday to get the time to give his views on the matter. This is the Public Attorney's Office (OM) yesterday.

Two weeks ago the investigating judge ruled that the Peter R. De Vries filmed in secret confessions of Van der Sloot not sufficient for an arrest warrant from him in the Netherlands. The OM, which attaches great importance to these statements by the suspect, drew objection against the decision. It is expected after this weekend would soon be known whether this is successful.

The OM had until last Friday afternoon the same time to ensure that all relevant information about the suspect to submit. A day earlier Van der Sloot following the film business in the Dutch port of Rotterdam (voluntary) interrogated by detectives of the Aruban police and the National Police Corps (KLPD). With that questioning, and with additional research, the OM want gather sufficient evidence to the suspect for a third time to arrest because of his share in the Holloway case. The court commissioner now, after the previous vrijheidsbenemingen of the suspect, very heavy demands to agree to a pre-trial detention.

Justice Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) said last week that he Joran prefer not to see back at Aruba and make him persona non grata. The OM finds that premature and provides great legal bumps they need to be taken. The Minister, however, denies that the body terugfluit him. "That had to relax yet, and that is not so," he responds. "I have my personal opinion, and I during the investigation into the Holloway case does not count toward the road. But Van der Sloot remains our island much economic harm, but while we ever again trying to be on top, since the case began in 2005. "

His answer to the suspect to undesirable alien to Aruba to declare, according to him must also be seen in the light of the package of measures that the Dutch government has agreed to Antillean and Aruban probleemjongeren to tackle. His Dutch colleague of Justice, Ernst Hirsch Ballin (CDA), who comes to visit Monday to Croes, prepares for a law that enables them to declare undesirable in the Netherlands. "The law can also be used," says Croes. "Let Joran the first Dutchman who is banned here."

[BUCKSHOT]

i too think of 2 possibillities:
1. natalee was taken to lorenzo s
2. she was taken to the vandersloot home.
paulus either helped hide the body OR he tied to have sex with natalee himself .
thats my theory. i truly believe that joran is protecting his father.
when i saw paulus for the first time i got a nasty feeling. usually that feeling is correct.

Iamnoangel...my *gut* talks to me too...I know exactly what you mean

I'm going with #2.  I think Lorenzo may be a distraction.  If he is such a big shot drug dealer, etc., WHY would he get involved with a hair=brained scheme like the one that unfolded?

I kinda agree with this.

Unless, the half-brother, family helping side came into play,
OR the untouchable status came into play,
OR clothes were really found at his house came into play,
OR there was a reason for being picked up by the bus in that area came into play.

[Tylergal]

Hello, Ospainter, good to see you.  You were missed.

Klaas, I like the Valentine's Day  jib/jab.  You have outdone yourself.

I hope they will not try Joran on a lesser charge and wait until they are ready to go to trial on a larger charge.  If my understanding of double jeopardy is correct and they charge him with a lesser charge, they cannot come back on him and charge him with murder, etc.

[BUCKSHOT]

Friday, February 08, 2008
Aruba's Killing Machine
Aruba is still telling Beth lies. The repeat of the seizure story only proves the corroboration between the Aruba Dirty Police and Karin Janssen and Premeditated Paulus Van der sloot.

But it doesn't tell the truth about what happened. "Daury" isn't a boat owner, he's a premeditated murderer. He's Paulus van der sloot. He is the creator of Joran's tortured stories.

Who confessed to whom?

It's entirely plausible that the story comes from the legal mind of Premeditated Paulus van der sloot and it became Aruba's talking points. Joran speaks for his father. Joe Tacopina speaks for Aruba.

There is overwhelming evidence of a frame on the security guards was taking place.

After Jansen was caught in a discrepancy, she said it was "a tactical maneuver."

The arrest of the guards was a tactical maneuver to do what?

"This is turning into a game, an illogical investigation," said Noraina Pietersz, the attorney representing Antonius "Mickey" John, 30. John and Abraham Jones, 28, had been detained a week as of Sunday, and have denied any connection to Holloway.



"The prosecution is pretending it has information that we don't have."

Attorney General Caren Janssen said Sunday that wasn't the case but declined to give details.

"We are still in the middle of an investigation," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/07/missing.teen/index.html

Two Aruba men held on 'reasonable suspicion'
Attorney says he expects clients to be accused of homicide
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 Posted: 7:27 PM EDT (2327 GMT)

Prosecutors decided to detain the suspects for another eight days. They are to appear in court Wednesday. Acting on a tip, police arrested the pair Sunday morning in the oil-refining town of San Nicolas.

Van der Biezen would not elaborate about evidence gathered in the investigation, but she did say that authorities would not have prolonged the detention if they only had circumstantial evidence.

Defense lawyer Chris Lejuez said he expects his clients to be formally accused of homicide, being accomplices to homicide, and of kidnapping leading to homicide.

He said his clients are innocent. The guards -- ages 28 and 30 -- worked at Hotel Allegro in Oranjestad near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

Lejuez said the men were not working the night Holloway disappeared

Now this from the Prosecutor yesterday:

The Public Prosecutor’s Office doesn’t fail to notice that the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway draws a lot of interest from media and general public. However, this interest seems to be turning into a witch-hunt in which several persons are being harassed.

Like who, you? Karin Janssen? Who is being harassed? Premeditated Paulus? You make this statement after interviewing Joran van der sloot?

You flew all the way to Holland to listen to that?

The corruption continues...

Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

At approximately 12.30 (May 31, 2005) my dad and me had arrived at Bubali police station. I was interviewed as a witness. I cannot remember that in my statement I had said that I had been at Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. I might be possible that I stated that.


Deepak Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no.


Satish Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car.

posted by Deetch at 9:51 PM 

[JE]

Debra

I believe the early AM Digital article that stated all three had sex with Natalee.

I believe Skeeters and what he heard Deepak say in the room.  The all had sex...

I believe the original tape will prove accurate.

I believe Steve Cohen's statement, in Peurto Rico that at least two admitted to having sex.

I don't believe the Kalpos are innocent.  They may not know the final disposal, but they certainly know the reason a disposal was needed.  They lied and looked for alibis.  I might buy the first lie, to help a friend, but the rest of the program is to cover their butts.

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!

All you have to do is listen to the squad car tapes to know the Kalpoes are very aware of what happened.

and i believe in the car tapes he specifically said joran would go to jail for 15 years which in holland is the exact number of years one gets for murder

[BUCKSHOT]

Monday, February 11, 2008


Remembering Jossy Mansur

"The world is watching."

How often is that literally true?

Jossy Mansur, editor of Diario is one of the most fascinating characters in this story. He may even be iconic if this was an HBO production.

Mr. Mansur has maintained a chivalrous attitude and stance with Natalee and with Beth. He has written passionately in their defense from the beginning.



Since I started my blog, I've met 2 people who know Jossy, have been to his house, that in itself is amazing. But, clearly a man who's found a niche. The rumors of "dirty dealings" are more like sunburn in Aruba.

His outrage at the treatment of Natalee and Beth is something that I find very pure. For whatever reason, his being offended by that is a step toward trust.

His patience, eloquence in the name of Natalee have been a blessing...

and yet,

He didn't sway opinion in Aruba, Joran van der sloot did, and it took a reporter from Holland to serve that up.

Why are authorities in Aruba more afraid of the foreign media than one's in their own neighborhood?

Only until recently did Aruba empathize with Natalee's mother?

How sick is that? Nobody believed Jossy or was he too timid?

Or is his moral outrage just not that motivating to the average citizen?

Jossy Mansur is uniquely positioned to expose the truth. Will he do it? We read rumors of his health, his past, his physical danger etc. Nevertheless, it's his defining moment, obviously.

Paulus van der sloot, Jan van der straaten, Karin Janssen, Dennis Jacobs. The adults in this story. Let's read about them? The Chief of Police, The Chief Prosecutor, The Lead Dectective, and this case isn't solved? Really Jossy, you're feigned innocent shoulder shrug that looks cute on TV is getting tiring.

Do you find the world watching safer or more dangerous?

Why are you waiting for an Aruban Legal System nobody understands to define what happened to Natalee Holloway and the investigation?

While I understand your house is nice, an appearance of wealth and success. It's all nothing if you don't grasp this moment. You are here for this, can you see it?

My respect for you is matched by my expectation, my hope and envy that you would take a stand right here and right now. Your past and present just antidotes compared to right now.

I love when you took down the van der sloot's U.S. attorney on at least two occasions. I was with you, but in the big picture it still took Joran's words to bring this case more in focus.

Still, the end is with the adults.

Tell us how it's possible this case is still supposedly unsolved?

Start with Paulus van der sloot and name names. Or was the OM referring to Diario when it asked the Media to shut up? The road to your greatness comes at a price, right?

Be remembered as a guy who went all in, because it was right. The Holloways have lost Natalee, what do you have to lose?

It's all there for you.


posted by Deetch at 9:13 PM  

[Observer]

i too think of 2 possibillities:
1. natalee was taken to lorenzo s
2. she was taken to the vandersloot home.
paulus either helped hide the body OR he tied to have sex with natalee himself .
thats my theory. i truly believe that joran is protecting his father.
when i saw paulus for the first time i got a nasty feeling. usually that feeling is correct.

Iamnoangel...my *gut* talks to me too...I know exactly what you mean

I'm going with #2.  I think Lorenzo may be a distraction.  If he is such a big shot drug dealer, etc., WHY would he get involved with a hair=brained scheme like the one that unfolded?

I don't think he's this humongous drug dealer,more like a spoiled kid that got a big inheritance and gets buy selling a moderate amount of cocaine and exstasy and grows 150 MJ plants throughout the year.. Maybe he helped because he knew Joran,most of his life? Maybe he is indeed Jorans 1/2 brother? We dont know much,but Jossy told us they were seen together alot,are very close and it is more than rumor in Aruba that they are brothers.

[caesu]

paulus says jorAN and the dutch say JOran, with the emphasis on the last part

that's right.
i remember that paul/witteman show 11th january that i thought:
hey, i didn't know that his family calls him like that.

about the tapes:
i am sure this has been covered.
talking about the amount of time he spend with natalee.
"he says: 2 days no just 1"
but it is a few hours if we should believe him?
2 days or a few hours... that's a difference.

[Kiwi]

Hello, Ospainter, good to see you.  You were missed.

Klaas, I like the Valentine's Day  jib/jab.  You have outdone yourself.

I hope they will not try Joran on a lesser charge and wait until they are ready to go to trial on a larger charge.  If my understanding of double jeopardy is correct and they charge him with a lesser charge, they cannot come back on him and charge him with murder, etc.

Still I'm of the opinion he should be charge with murder since dumping someone in the sea that maybe alive is not trying save them. Maybe he should call the clean-up crew as witnesses to help his alibi or just take the punishment for murder 15 years.

[klaasend]

REMINDER - TOMORROW NIGHT ON DANA PRETZER RADIO

BETH HOLLOWAY
&
PETER R. DEVRIES

9PM ET
www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

[Peaches]

Obs, all I'm saying is that if Lorenzo is a drug dealer and he is a good enough businessman to keep himself out of jail, he's smart enough not to involve himself in something so despicable.  If he did, there must be a reason.  I just don't think Lorenzo would put his own ass out there on the line.  MOO

[ala_gunslinger]

Let me ask a question :
This appeal is only for pre trial detention that is being appealed ?
Same as the other ones ?
So ? Unless they are prepared to actually have a trial, does this matter if he is in jail on Aruba or walking free in Holland. As much as he can walk free.
Whether he is " detained " or not, that is not the issue, the issue is, when are they ever going to charge him ? They is no point detaining him just to re question him, he has stated his case that he was under the influence. He will stick to that. Under advice of his attorneys.

Evenin all ya'll!  Just catching up...

I have also had these same thoughts.

[vms]

i too think of 2 possibillities:
1. natalee was taken to lorenzo s
2. she was taken to the vandersloot home.
paulus either helped hide the body OR he tied to have sex with natalee himself .
thats my theory. i truly believe that joran is protecting his father.
when i saw paulus for the first time i got a nasty feeling. usually that feeling is correct.

Iamnoangel...my *gut* talks to me too...I know exactly what you mean

I'm going with #2.  I think Lorenzo may be a distraction.  If he is such a big shot drug dealer, etc., WHY would he get involved with a hair=brained scheme like the one that unfolded?

I don't think he's this humongous drug dealer,more like a spoiled kid that got a big inheritance and gets buy selling a moderate amount of cocaine and exstasy and grows 150 MJ plants throughout the year.. Maybe he helped because he knew Joran,most of his life? Maybe he is indeed Jorans 1/2 brother? We dont know much,but Jossy told us they were seen together alot,are very close and it is more than rumor in Aruba that they are brothers.

XTC DNA

XTC = Xtacy   DNA of the rumored 1/2 brother?

[Peaches]

Carry on.

Time for me to get horizontal. 
Justice for Natalee.

[caesu]

EenVandaag about the Persistence search for Natalee Holloway.
and the harm Joran has done to the island.

http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=6472985

(some parts are in dutch)

[imnoangel]

LOL destiny you make me laugh 

im almost falling asleep but still waiting on the re run of eenvandaag. pfffff.... keep you posted

[klaasend]

I posted this a few pages back but that was through the google translator.  This was posted at RU by Pronkjewail

Drugsexperts looking into jorans confession

Drugsexperts wegen Jorans woorden
Door PETER DE KNEGT

ARUBA - Drugsexperts onderzoeken op Aruba de betrouwbaarheid van de verklaringen van Joran van der Sloot.

Drugsexperts on Aruba are investigating the reliability of Joran van der Sloots statements.

Dat doen de experts op verzoek van het Openbaar Ministerie.

The experts do this at the request of the OM

Joran zei afgelopen vrijdag tijdens eenverhoor dat zijn ‘bekentenissen’ over de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway in het tv-programma van Peter R. de Vries waren verzonnen onder invloed van marihuana.

Last friday, Joran told investigators during an investigation that his "confessions" about the dissapearance of Natalee Holloway during the PRDV-broadcast were made up after using Marijuhana.

Volgens Dop Kruimel, persofficier op Aruba, wijzen de eerste bevindingen van experts en gebruikers er niet op dat iemand verhalen verzint als hij drugs heeft gebruikt. ,,Daarmee is het verhaal van Joran voor het Openbaar Ministerie wel degelijk een belangrijk steunbewijs in ons verder onderzoek. Ook wachten wij op rapportages van experts over de manier waarop Natalee Holloway volgens Joran is overleden.’’

According to Dop Kruimel, from the OM on Aruba, the first finding of experts and users, seem to indicate someone does not fabricate stories after using drugs. "This makes Jorans story something the OM can use as evidence in the investigation. Furthermore we are waiting for reports from experts about the way Natalee died according to Joran".

Het OM op Aruba heeft na de uitzending van Peter R. de Vries’ programma 25 rechercheurs op de zaak-Holloway gezet. Voor de uitzending waren dat er maar vier.

After the PRDV-broadcast , the Aruban OM assigned 25 investigators to the Holloway-case. Before the broadcast, there were only 4 investigators.

Ook heeft volgens Kruimel het OM veel tips per post en e-mail gekregen. Kruimel: ,,Wij denken zeker dat het mogelijk is de zaak op te lossen.’’

According to Kruimel, the Om has received a lot of tips through mail and email. Kruimel: "we absolutely think we can solve the case".

De afgelopen week zijn de rechercheurs aan de slag gegaan met de aanwijzingen van Joran zelf en met de vele tips die zijn binnengekomen. Kruimel wil niet zeggen wat er is uitgezocht.

Last week investigators started working with the indications of Joran and with the many tips they received. Kruimel doesnt want to confirm what the investigation was about.

Kruimel bestrijdt de visie van advocaat Spong dat het filmmateriaal illegaal is en dus niet kan worden gebruikt in een strafzaak.

Kruimel doesnt agree with the vision of lawyer Spong about the usability of the footage. She says the footage is not illegal and can be used during a courtcase.


Followup post by Pronkjewail:

Jenny, you dont understand Dutch do you? During the phonecall Joran made to the Pauw And Witteman-show, his voice nearly broke. He really sounded like he could start to cry any minute. To me he didnt seem like someone who made up a story to get him a trial.. but rather someone who is "busted" and just now realizes the consequences of his actions...

[Kat_Gram]

JQK might not have had all of the info or was still trying to work with KJ when he though that she was doing a good job. It was DeVries who found that Antonio Carlo had a meeting with KJ.
..

[BUCKSHOT]

Paulus: “I'll do anything to protect my son."

Paulus VanDerSloot took control of this investigation. Took control to solve a crime and then to un-solve a crime, to protect his son, Joran VanDerSloot.

The landfill wass a place that would require legal authority and approved resources to search. Evidence gets buried deeper and deeper each day.  

In the landfill, nothing looks out of place because everything is out of place.

Dompig steered Dave away from the landfill.

He claimed he was acting on rumors of stolen fishing equipment. A story that had been around for months but without evidence. Did they fingerprint the huts?

Natalee’s remains get buried more each day in the landfill.

Unless and until the investigation is focused on Jan van der Straaten and Paulus van der sloot, Aruba will continue to dig itself a deeper hole. A timeline of Paulus’ actions and contacts will reveal his solving and un-solving of this crime.