Natalee Case Discussion #731 2/14 /08 - 2/15/08

[Kiwi]

i understand the reactions of americans.
their outrage and disbelief. we feel the same way.
and we agree that a lot of things went wrong and that the ones who did wrong, wether its the vandersloots or the justice department, in aruba or holland, should be trialed in court for their doings.
but, saying that, i also must say we felt the same when the american justice let o j simpson walk.
i mean, its all awfull and herendous and it is a good thing if the people take action and protest to things going wrong.
but lets not be hypocrits.

What I personally would like to see is a trial. I do agree with your take on the OJ results. The only thing not found was a signed football next to the bodies. In this case they need to go for murder and let the chips fall in open court. No 4 answers for one question.

[imnoangel]

well, bladerunner, then it is dark. the sun went down by that time. they want to see everything clear so they dont miss out on any evidence

[imnoangel]

this race has not been run yet.

[Tamikosmom]

Column Peter R. DeVries: NO REARREST FOR JORAN: HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO HER RELATIVES.....?

Joran van der Sloot will not be rearrested for his role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, according to a decision handed down by the Court on Aruba last night. This is not altogether surprising, considering an earlier pronouncement by the examining judge that the case is now technically ‘on appeal’, but it is difficult to explain. The main problem is that Dutch law does not provide for detention on remand for disposing of a body. It is indeed an offence which carries a maximum penalty of six months imprisonment, but one can’t be kept in custody pending such a sentence.

Continue reading...

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/column-peter-r_15.html



This is yet another logical fallacy.  Who declared Natalee a "corpse" so that the crime is "ONLY" disposal of a corpse?  Why is she not considered a live human being whom he and his father/friend/self dumped in water too far out to survive?

This is as lame as the "can't believe him because he lies too much" excuse.

What kind of a system allow alcoholic, pothead punks decide who is dead and who isn't?

Joran looks very ill to me.  I suspect he may be dead.  Based on what we are being told, if I dump him in the sea past two ot more miles, I will at the most be charged with disposal of a corpse that carries six months jail time.

If they take his word on this, they would also have to take mine as well, right?

If there is someone you don't like, you can just dump them out in the ocean and say they died and you are home free with max six months?

Exactly Anna.

The world is expected to believe that 17 year old Joran had the professional expertise to determine that Natalee Holloway was deceased and ... not just passed out and ... the world is expected to believe that Hans Mos has the professional expertise to determine that Joran van der Sloot has a personality disorder.

Murders of the world hear this!  Dutch law has determined if you take your victim out to sea and ... his/her body never emerges ... the longest sentence that can be imposed by a court of law is six month for disposing of a "corpse".

My son's Dutch FIL is not a legal expert but ... he is of the opinion that Dutch law is once again being manipulated in the Natalee Holloway case.  Common sense implies some credible indication must exist that person is deceased prior to disposal ... not the word of a 17 year old boy with no medical background ... a 17 year old boy who has lied continually regarding regarding when he was last with the 18 year old American citizen.

I do believe that the prosecutor, defense attorneys and judges involved in the Natalee Holloway case are adhering to the letter of the law ... the letter of the law taken out of context in their quest to protect Paulus and Joran ... not the intent of the law ... JUSTICE FOR THE VICTIM.

Janet

[imnoangel]

its on tv, i going to watch now

[Dihannah1]

So what we are being told is that if there is a person you want to "eliminate" just take them to Aruba, buy them a "drink" at Carlos and Charlies (or Senior Frog when reopens) wait until the drugs take effect then dump them out at sea.

Lie, lie and lie again and you might not even get the six months for disposal of a corpse which you and you alone are allowed to say the person had become for reasons unknown.

Is that about right?

.

Ok, who's game to go back to Aruba and lure dipshit back there?  Sounds and looks so easy to me!  Of course, my luck, I'd be the one who would end up disappeared next 

[Bladerunner]

Some questions I have:

Trial

30. Suspects have right to trial within a reasonable period of time

31. Public hearing

32. No trial by jury, but by a professional judge

33. No plea-bargaining

34. No death penalty

35. No permission required by the prosecutor from the court to go to trial
So the prosecutor can bring this to trial if they want?

36. Indictment presented, at the prerogative of the prosecutor, after investigations have taken place

37. Defense will have chance to cross-examine witnesses before an examining judge

Can the prosecution cross examine defense witnesses?

38. Maximum sentences: (i) Life imprisonment; or (ii) limited time. Section 11 Criminal Code

39. Maximum sentence of limited time sentence is 20 years i.e. 15 plus 5

40. Life sentencing has been issued in the past by the Courts.

41. Death sentence abolished since late 1800's and since then no serious attempts to re-instate same.

[Tamikosmom]

i understand the reactions of americans.
their outrage and disbelief. we feel the same way.
and we agree that a lot of things went wrong and that the ones who did wrong, wether its the vandersloots or the justice department, in aruba or holland, should be trialed in court for their doings.
but, saying that, i also must say we felt the same when the american justice let o j simpson walk.
i mean, its all awfull and herendous and it is a good thing if the people take action and protest to things going wrong.
but lets not be hypocrits.

Those are good points. What gets me is that the Dutch laws do not seem to support the pursuit of justice. For example:

14. Hours of investigation limited. No investigation b/w 22:00 and 08:00

This is from this page: http://www.aruba.com/about/judicialsystem.php

What exactly does this mean, that you can't pursue your investigative duties of a crime after 10pm. at night?

However ... Karin Janssen made an exception in the case of the security guards.

Janet



Associated Press
June 7, 2005

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158666,00.html

Aruban police in unmarked cars accompanied by FBI agents made a pre-dawn raid at 5 a.m. Sunday, rousting two suspects aged 28 and 30 from their beds.

An AP photographer watched as the rumpled men — one from the De Vuiyst housing project for poorer islanders and another from an average home in southeast San Nicolas — emerged without resistance, hands cuffed behind their backs.

Police searched the homes and emerged with what looked like a metal safe deposit box and a garbage bag of clothing.

[imnoangel]

i think the answer is yes to both questions, bladerunner.
but there s more to it, my attorney has 8 giant walls filled with bookcases all full of books from floor to ceiling, containing lawbooks full of exeptions and jurisprudence. it all sounds so easy but is not so easy as it seems

[private eye]

I am in and out working today, but I loved all of the Herman pictures and there is some startling similarities between the 2. Don't feel bad Herman, you can't make diamonds from poop, and you were working with Anita, so it is understandable, and you were lonely, and almost blind.

[cubbeegirl]

Bobby Cutts said he had an accident, too, accidentally hit his girlfriend with his elbow, loved her, didn't mean for it to happen.

Wept and cried, gnashed teeth, etc.

Guilty.

.

Anna,,,, Just got home has the verdict come down? Have to leave again in 5 min. no time to search.........

Poor Bobby wished he could call Jessie so she could make it all better....then why the f did ya kill her???

CANTON, Ohio  —  A jury has convicted former Ohio police officer Bobby Cutts Jr. of murdering his pregnant girlfriend and their unborn baby.

He could face the death penalty.

Cutts was convicted of aggravated murder in the death of the nearly full-term female fetus.

The jury found him not guilty of aggravated murder in Davis' death, a count that includes intent to kill with prior calculation and design. But they convicted him of a lesser charge of murder in her death.

Aggravated murder carries a possible death sentence.

Cutts, who resigned as a Canton patrolman after his arrest, had pleaded not guilty to all charges.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330787,00.html

Thanks Anna.... I have been out all day , in for a bit and had to leave to carry boys to practice and have to leave again soon to pick them up.....was wondering if they reached a
verdict...

[MumInOhio]

Tamikosmom IIRC J2Ks and SGCroes were all arrested at 6AM....Does that mean they were all illegally arrested?

[SouthGeorgiaGirl]

Afternoon Monkeys

[Dihannah1]

Klaas,  email in your gmail acct.

[Frank]

Rudy Croes holds no sway over van der straaten, dompig or Janssen. I believe he is doing exactly that, he's told Paulus to take responsibility or leave the island.

The Dutch Aruba tension is flaring.

Mos is in charge, but he's an outsider. This is the tacit plea bargain. Either Paulus admits what he's done, or leave.

[Dihannah1]

Afternoon Monkeys

Good Afternoon SGG! 

[Dihannah1]

Rudy Croes holds no sway over van der straaten, dompig or Janssen. I believe he is doing exactly that, he's told Paulus to take responsibility or leave the island.

The Dutch Aruba tension is flaring.

Mos is in charge, but he's an outsider. This is the tacit plea bargain. Either Paulus admits what he's done, or leave.

I tend to agree with you Frank, on all points you mention.

[klaasend]

From the Dutch sites 

http://www.dumpert.nl/

[klaasend]

Another from the Dutch site:

[SouthGeorgiaGirl]

We can only hope klaas