Natalee Case Discussion #733 2/17 - 2/21/08

[Debra]

(I'm curious...Why doesn't Joran & Freddy have driver's licences?
Because they are usually in the backseat with girls and driven by others? 
Others that may have been filming things?)

IMO Joran & others stayed in Santa Lucia overnight
(The final report for school was being printed on Sunday night
"History of Alcohol & Drugs"...IMO What Paulus was lookng for in Monday night
to print for Joran)

Art Wood is right...Evidence of what they are all about is on their computers (and MySpace-type pages)...i.e. backseat websites of Brough's & others.

[Bearlyhere]

She lies all the time. Perhaps 1 out of every 20 lines she types is the truth. Honestly, I have never in my life seen so many people from such a small area tell so many freaking lies. It is like they make shit up as they go along. Everyone lies.....even big people lie, my ass. This is an Island population of nothing but liars. Pathetic.

MF states he/she was at C&C's on the night Natalee went missing.
Glenda states she was at Soul Beach, but had been at C&C's on Fri. and Sat. night before Natalee went missing. Someone asked if she saw Natalee on that weekend at C&C's and/or Joran.....
answer>>
Glenda posts>>
I have no Idea if I saw her, but I do remember the Sweet Home Alabama, the drinking and butt shaking contests, etc... It was something I'd never seen before in the hundred plus times I'd been there. I've been to CnC hundreds of times... This group was through the MOON!
I didn't know Joran from Adam, so I don't have a clue if he was there. ~~~~~~~~
At CnC, the bouncers took my camera at the door on Saturday Night. When I got in, I realized why.  Girls and Boys gone wild. We stayed until around 3am and the party was still going strong. Bahia and Choose a Name were also packed.

Gilligan posts>
The MBers who went to C&C's would be the hardcore drinkers who play competitive drinking games and dance. A little bit of blow or a little bit of weed, you could make a right party out of that. Probably lots of piles of puke around back of that place. So that's what all the little darlings were doing. How sweet.

~~~~~~~

These freaks make it sound like they have never seen such partying in their lives on their one innocent island of misfits. It is just unbelievable they talk this way about the MB'ers when it is plastered all over the internet from people's webshot albums and even the club's own website galleries and radio station galleries and hundreds of other sites the mega partying that has gone on there LONG before MB'ers landed. I am sure the MB's partied...that is what they were there for, but Damnnnnnnn, they make it seem like they brought the concept to Aruba.  Lies, lies, lies.....sick of all the lies in this horrible, tragic tale. Can no one speak the truth?

Well, Ren, you have been caught with your pants down sotaspeak.

It tells me either:

1.  You are exaggerating.  It could not have been disturbing you or you would have left.  Instead you stayed until 3 AM!

2.  You make poor decisions.  You are the mother of 4 (pregnant at the time no?) and spent the night in the bar where you say all this was taking place.  Can't be good for kid #4.  This is the kids playground, you are too old.

4.  You were jealous.  Was that you on top of the bar dancing and singing:

     There's no business
     like ho business,
     like no business I know 

[caesu]

(I'm curious...Why doesn't Joran & Freddy have driver's licences?
Because they are usually in the backseat with girls and driven by others? 
Others that may have been filming things?)

IMO Joran & others stayed in Santa Lucia overnight
(The final report for school was being printed on Sunday night
"History of Alcohol & Drugs"...IMO What Paulus was lookng for in Monday night
to print for Joran)

Art Wood is right...Evidence of what they are all about is on their computers (and MySpace-type pages)...i.e. backseat websites of Brough's & others.

you have to be 18 in the netherlands (and i suppose in aruba) to get a driver's licence.
joran was 17 at the time wasn't he?
on top of that in the netherlands it is very expensive and quite difficult to pass the exams.
drinking alcohol is also legal at 16, sex with consent is also legal at 16.
working in sex business is legal at 18.
if i got one of these things wrong please a dutchie or someone correct me.

[Nut44x4]

amigo quote---clipped
"According to his lawyer Bert De Rooij, “Joran van der Sloot is not well off.  He is in hiding and is constantly being threatened. Whether that is in the Netherlands or in Aruba, is not known.  The lawyer said that he is not hiding for the police, but for the people’s tribunal.  He has serious reasons to believe that he won’t make it across the street if we let him go free.” Where are the keeping him?  it is like he is locked up some place

Crime journalist Peter R. de Vries is of the opinion that by not arresting Joran van der Sloot, he is being rewarded for undermining the police investigation.  He also does not understand that the Court does not want to arrest him because the Court is under the impression that Joran is a consistent liar.  “The fact that a person constantly lies in a case of life and death, is precisely a motive to keep him/her locked behind bars.”
Peter is the only one making any sense in this investigation.

He is probably in a mental institution just like VD Straaten told him.

Couple of days ago I posted something similar...still wondering about it.
>>>posted by me on the 16th
"According to acquaintances of of of the ditch he have been gone into
hiding in a German holiday park."

I have been wondering...IF true, is it possible that a " Duits vakantiepark" ...is possible a safe house or...rehab ranch or even a     bin?

[Bearlyhere]

And why did his Mother tell him to stay away from the Marriott?

Why would they have a payphone that can only dial internationally outside of Aruba? Also why would the coast guard investigate this phone? 

I sometimes jump over on RU and read...and I'm pretty sure that Glenda?? wrote that there wasn't even a payphone there in 2005..I read this  when the tapes first came out it may not have been her but I know I read it on RU....I have been back to see if I could locate the post but have not had any luck so far.... And No I'm not a RU fan I'm just like Klaas and some others I find them pretty comical
 

Hi Hotping..It doesnt matter as I don't think he used a payphone at all,he had a perfectly good cell phone in hand and all his pimp friends have cell phones. Yes RU is comical,Most are like evil cartoon characters..It's even funnier when they fight amongst themselves 

Thanks *******...I agree He only said He used the payphone to draw attention away from the cellphone that He really used or He used the payphone to call Anita in Holland.....

He either used that phone to call Anita or used the pay as you go cell phone he uses for pimpin'.

[Bearlyhere]

We could send the media a PP presentation, short and to the point with "hotlinks" to SM forum pages that reference the detail if they choose to read.

Klaas, I was thinking along the same lines.

At each point write something like:

   While being taped in the back of the police van Deepak Kalpoe said, "your own father"*

Have the your own father highlighted where you can click on it, and the click sends you to the whole document where the statement came from.  Have it (your own father) highlighted on the statement for easier access to the quote. 

This way it will be nice and neat on the list page and each point will be documented by the whole statement and no one will have to go searching through the whole statement to find what they are looking for.

I LOVE that suggestion!!!! That was probably what you guys were talking about all along and I just didn't "get" it. OK! I'm with you! (I know that makes your day, huh?) 

Good Afternoon Monkeys!

I have seen SO MANY wonderful ideas coming forward.  I would like to add my 2 cents FWIW.  I think it boils down to who the reader is, in the long run.  Of course no way of telling each of there tastes.   For instance,  I personally do not like having a bunch of links, forcing me to many different web pages, opening more tabs, windows, etc.  Way to time consuming  (Which is why I am so grateful when posters actually bring actual contents with link here.)   However, if somebody posts a link that get's my curiosity going, I will go look.  Considering the many stories the media covers,  I think it should be quick and to the point.  Of course,  using links could be helpful for those who really DO want to dig in and read, maybe in hopes of getting a huge news story.  I'm sure they have people on there teams who do this type of work for them too.   

So my opinion is similar to all those mentioned.   Keep it short, but informational,  enough to grab there attention in hopes they do more research if they decide to.  But also get the most pertinent info to one page, if possible.  (I also like printable pages, where I can just read, not hunt)

It is going to boil down to who the reader is, there tastes and the time they have to research.  BUT we HAVE to grab there attention immediately and make it easy somehow for them all.

To make the pages printable, you could put numbers next to the asterisk like you would for a footnote.

[Anna]

I don't think you have to adhere to only one format; you can present several, each one going in more depth.
1. Maybe start with Who's Who in the Zoo, and include pictures and connect them with both relations and jobs (or do two charts, one of government, the other of relationships)
2. Next, a chronological presentation of short quotes (w/small picture or caricature?) Right under the quotes could be the source.
3. Finally the whole thing filled in, a long documentary of events.

This would allow the reader to get "hooked" while they are in short attention span mode.

Just another idea.

And another good idea, too. 

MsMarple is also good with this kind of thing.  I wonder what she would suggest as well.

[klaasend]

Hi Blogmonks,

You were talking about lawyer Moszkowicz the other day; the lawyer that assists Beth in her civil complaint against JvdS.
I just remembered that Moszkowicz and his father (a high profile lawyer as well) featered in a commercial some time ago. One of a series of very funny commercials from an insurance-company with their slogan 'Even Apeldoorn bellen!' (Something like: Have to call to Apeldoorn for a minute.')
Just HAVE to post it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQyxU3rotk&feature=related

LOL  I saw this a couple days ago and downloaded.  What I wanted to do was take certain screens at the end and superimpose Joran's face on the kid.  Unfortunately, it appears to have some kind of block or copywrite protection that doesn't allow me to do that.  I tried everything, LOLOL

That would indeed be a lot of fun (and maybe inspiring to Moszkowicz as well). I just looked if I could maybe achieve something in that direction but I couldn't even get my 'Tube-tv' started with which i download youtube-videos. I'll look into it some more and let you know!

Hi Klaasend,

I've looked into it now. I have downloaded the video and can convert it with VisualHub (PSP, DV, DVD, AVI, MP4, WMV, MPEG, Flash) and edit it in Final Cut Express (all Mac). I don't seem to have any problem here. If you like I can send a converted file to you. (I'm not so talented in editing these clips in a funny way.) If you like that let me know in what format and whereto I can send it.

EURobert - sorry, I got some unexpected company and was away from my computer.  I was able to download it and view it on my PC, but to do what I want I have to be able to capture screen shots and for some reason they turn out all black after I capture them.   It's not a normal problem there is some kind of hidden code that is stopping it from working.

[klaasend]

(I'm curious...Why doesn't Joran & Freddy have driver's licences?
Because they are usually in the backseat with girls and driven by others? 
Others that may have been filming things?)

IMO Joran & others stayed in Santa Lucia overnight
(The final report for school was being printed on Sunday night
"History of Alcohol & Drugs"...IMO What Paulus was lookng for in Monday night
to print for Joran)

Art Wood is right...Evidence of what they are all about is on their computers (and MySpace-type pages)...i.e. backseat websites of Brough's & others.

Joran didn't have a drivers licence when Natalee was in Aruba because he was too young.  How do we know Freddy doesn't have one? 

[Anna]

Van der Sloot's 'friend' signs book contract
Monday 18 February 2008

Patrick van der Eem, who befriended Joran van der Slot and then secretly recorded him confessing to being with Natalee Holloway when she died, has signed a book contract with US literary agent David Vigliano.

The rights to Van der Eem's story on the disappearance of the US teenager on Aruba in 2005 will be auctioned off, the Telegraaf reports on Monday.

At the weekend Dutch lawyer Bram Moszkowic told the media he has been approached by Holloway's mother to look into the possibility of bringing a civil case against Van der Sloot.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/van_der_sloots_friend_signs_bo.php

[klaasend]

Possibly....But it's Deepak that "slips" & describes Guido & GVC's cars.

Why hadn't MIP6 said "Oh, yeah...that's my kid hanging out at C&C's?"


What I'm seeing is possibly the pimps "bait & switch" game
A tourist girl really could not ID them positively

Mark Jr is one "wild & crazy" guy
He probably met Natalee earlier

Nobody in the picture looks like Mark Jr.

[Maggie]

Anna,
Thank you for your answer. It is most appreciated to have someone read one of my posts.

[klaasend]

Anna,
Thank you for your answer. It is most appreciated to have someone read one of my posts.

Hi Maggie - don't feel bad, it happens to me too.  Just yesterday I posted a picture that ended up on the front page of SM this morning.  When I posted it in the forum not one person commented on it and I'm an Administer of the site, LOLOL   

[Tylergal]

Each of Joran's successive stories were designed to include information he discovered along the way. He only tells stories that have partial truths, knowing that, tells me something in what he says about walking to the Marriott has some truth in it.  He either truly made a phone call from that phone to his buddy "Daury" or he knew there was a possibility of someone seeing him in the area and he is placing himself there deliberately in order to deflect the truth in some way....didn't Scott Peterson do that too?

I say he went there to retrieve help.

[Anna]

Anna,
Thank you for your answer. It is most appreciated to have someone read one of my posts.

Maggie, you are most welcome but lots of us try to read every post.  Sometimes it is complete and there is nothing needed to say.  You explain your thoughts very well and maybe no one has a question so they don't comment.

When I feel ignored, and believe me we all do at times, I quote myself and repost it, lol.

But I promise you that I was not the only one who read it, for sure!

Lots are working and lurking or at work and not supposed to even be here, yikes!

But I do agree that sometimes even when we read a post, a reply would be nice so we don't feel invisible.

.

[Debra]

(I'm curious...Why doesn't Joran & Freddy have driver's licences?
Because they are usually in the backseat with girls and driven by others? 
Others that may have been filming things?)

IMO Joran & others stayed in Santa Lucia overnight
(The final report for school was being printed on Sunday night
"History of Alcohol & Drugs"...IMO What Paulus was lookng for in Monday night
to print for Joran)

Art Wood is right...Evidence of what they are all about is on their computers (and MySpace-type pages)...i.e. backseat websites of Brough's & others.

you have to be 18 in the netherlands (and i suppose in aruba) to get a driver's licence.
joran was 17 at the time wasn't he?
on top of that in the netherlands it is very expensive and quite difficult to pass the exams.
drinking alcohol is also legal at 16, sex with consent is also legal at 16.
working in sex business is legal at 18.
if i got one of these things wrong please a dutchie or someone correct me.

Thanks, Caesu ...I wasn't aware of that.

[Tylergal]

IMO the house stop with Natalee & 2K was just to find the next party
Possibly Freddy was already there
The stops along the way were to get the pimps together
Most likely SW beach
Odd evidence found
6:30 am call FROM Santa Lucia-last stop-Joran calling Paulus
My guess is: Rancho Daimari area (cucunu house/apts)

Daury could be Mark Jr...He fits the description
Why wasnt this "pimp" ever questioned? Everyone else was.

I have mentioned that here almost daily for a month and it does not seem to generate any interest.

[Tamikosmom]

Van der Sloot's 'friend' signs book contract
Monday 18 February 2008

Patrick van der Eem, who befriended Joran van der Slot and then secretly recorded him confessing to being with Natalee Holloway when she died, has signed a book contract with US literary agent David Vigliano.

The rights to Van der Eem's story on the disappearance of the US teenager on Aruba in 2005 will be auctioned off, the Telegraaf reports on Monday.

At the weekend Dutch lawyer Bram Moszkowic told the media he has been approached by Holloway's mother to look into the possibility of bringing a civil case against Van der Sloot.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/van_der_sloots_friend_signs_bo.php

Thank you Anna.

My emotions are mixed on both topics.

Janet

[Buckeye]

Patrick and his book:

His agent, Peter Schouten used to be the email contact on Peter R. Devries, English site.  Now, it is Devries, himself.

Who is the American journalist the Peter met up with IN ARUBA, to write his book??  Please tell me it is someone I have never heard of....

Anna

The Anna bot parody reminded me of a description of Klaasend....

[caesu]

(I'm curious...Why doesn't Joran & Freddy have driver's licences?
Because they are usually in the backseat with girls and driven by others? 
Others that may have been filming things?)

IMO Joran & others stayed in Santa Lucia overnight
(The final report for school was being printed on Sunday night
"History of Alcohol & Drugs"...IMO What Paulus was lookng for in Monday night
to print for Joran)

Art Wood is right...Evidence of what they are all about is on their computers (and MySpace-type pages)...i.e. backseat websites of Brough's & others.

you have to be 18 in the netherlands (and i suppose in aruba) to get a driver's licence.
joran was 17 at the time wasn't he?
on top of that in the netherlands it is very expensive and quite difficult to pass the exams.
drinking alcohol is also legal at 16, sex with consent is also legal at 16.
working in sex business is legal at 18.
if i got one of these things wrong please a dutchie or someone correct me.

Thanks, Caesu ...I wasn't aware of that.

you are welcome.

also to enter as casino in the netherlands you have to be 18 and show ID if you enter (at least they should do that).
maybe on aruba things are different, but i doubt that.
this only shows once again what a disrespect jvds has for the law, especially when his gambling together with his father, the judge in training.