Natalee Case Discussion #733 2/17 - 2/21/08

[Buckeye]

Interesting post by FierlJepper at scrux.

Could account for guards at Wyndham seeing group on beach several hours before the family's arrival.  ?? Paulus returning to Racquet Club, that night, with the bag??


Something bothered me from the confession of Joran and that's his peculiar statement about wanting to make sure that he was on the Casino camera the next night!

This induces an interesting other scenario that could explain a lot of the open issues:

0. Natalee died on the beach.
1. Joran temporarily buried her body under the mangroves.
2. He walked/rushed home and spent a lot of time on the web.
3. He only contacted his friend with the boat the next day (e.g Racquet club)
4. They made sure to be on camera in as many of the casino's
5. They walked to the beach when it was dark and loaded the body in the boat and disposed of her.
6. Plenty of friends around that nicht.

Wasn't there the story that Joran and a friend left the hotels go collect some money?
7. They went back and made sure to be as much as possible on camera again.

Nicely fits:
* the timelines
* that no additional phone calls are needed
* the police having accounted for all boats during night of 29/30, but not for the night of 30/31
* the motive for Joran wanting to be on cam the next day
* his eagerness to go to tennis lessons and walk to the hotel strip even though he felt sick (could check burying spot and be on camera later)
* the boat sailing to the mangrove spot reducing the distance to carry the body.
* maybe even the document that analyses the cell phone triangulation showing Joran heading north (I recall having seen an offical document on this somewhere, but I'm not sure about the precise timing during the day)

hmmmm

[MumInOhio]

Interesting post by FierlJepper at scrux.

Could account for guards at Wyndham seeing group on beach several hours before the family's arrival.  ?? Paulus returning to Racquet Club, that night, with the bag??


Something bothered me from the confession of Joran and that's his peculiar statement about wanting to make sure that he was on the Casino camera the next night!

This induces an interesting other scenario that could explain a lot of the open issues:

0. Natalee died on the beach.
1. Joran temporarily buried her body under the mangroves.
2. He walked/rushed home and spent a lot of time on the web.
3. He only contacted his friend with the boat the next day (e.g Racquet club)
4. They made sure to be on camera in as many of the casino's
5. They walked to the beach when it was dark and loaded the body in the boat and disposed of her.
6. Plenty of friends around that nicht.

Wasn't there the story that Joran and a friend left the hotels go collect some money?
7. They went back and made sure to be as much as possible on camera again.

Nicely fits:
* the timelines
* that no additional phone calls are needed
* the police having accounted for all boats during night of 29/30, but not for the night of 30/31
* the motive for Joran wanting to be on cam the next day
* his eagerness to go to tennis lessons and walk to the hotel strip even though he felt sick (could check burying spot and be on camera later)
* the boat sailing to the mangrove spot reducing the distance to carry the body.
* maybe even the document that analyses the cell phone triangulation showing Joran heading north (I recall having seen an offical document on this somewhere, but I'm not sure about the precise timing during the day)

hmmmm

Good morning Buckeye.....Thanks for bringing that over.

I have been trying to compile a list on the Racquet Club. It is mentioned in the PVs and Joran's book at least 3 maybe 4 of the days after Natalee disappeared.

This is who I recall being mentioned or having mentioned it:

Joran, Paulus, Satish, Guido, David, Freddy....there's more....just haven't finished with my research on it yet.

[MumInOhio]

*******......Interesting that both you and Klaas thought that the David in Joran's book was David Wever.

This is who I thought he was talking about.

 David Fisiitalia also became a friend of Joran's, he met him at ISA. He came from Seattle in 2003 and moved to Aruba because his mom started working with the US customs office on the island. They hung around a lot in each other's houses and played soccer with friends at a field near Joran's house.

Interesting....the name appears to be Hawaiian...or I have found some there and in Tonga. I seem to remember the MB'ers mentioning a Hawaiian looking guy in the casino. 

[Buckeye]

One last post.

What I find interesting is that Jaime mentions Stephanie as Joran's girlfriend.

In all of Joran's PVs and in what I have seen of his book, that name never is mentioned.

It may be the name(s) that Joran doesn't mention that should carry more weight. ??

[Tylergal]

Ready to call it a night.

Did anyone see this, at RU, today:

dugo  PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:01 am         

Moszco .. also former lawyer of Eduardo Matthew..

We might hear a little more about Vocking King......hmmmm

Thats very interesting! I guess we know now why she picked him!

Night!

Now, I would not say that is how and why she picked him.  She probably chose this lawyer in concert with JQK.  So if he turned out to be the same attorney as Matthews had used, so note it be, reputation and performance trump gossip any day.

[Tylergal]

Christian Porn God
"I Dare You to Spank the Monkey"

The next "Joran"?
Wild & cr@zy guy
Into partying, filming, violence, satanism.....

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=14761846

I recall once that when I was looking at his sight ,he alluded to enjoying being on the beach at night, lack of sunlight, lack of people, etc.  Older one likes to go out in his boat and look for potential what? he told Robin, he was looking for her and Dave, what i she looking for?  and what is Robin asking him for or expecting of him?

[Tylergal]

Christian Porn God
"I Dare You to Spank the Monkey"

The next "Joran"?
Wild & cr@zy guy
Into partying, filming, violence, satanism.....

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=14761846

First off he's married and has a child so I wouldn't call him "the next Joran".  Where do you get that he's into satanism?

Klaas, there are a lot of married men who do not stray from their wives and who do not hang out on the beach at night, who do not enjoy the same immoral adventures as the Purcells.  Damn, are you under their spell, a la Robin?

[Tylergal]

Interesting post by FierlJepper at scrux.

Could account for guards at Wyndham seeing group on beach several hours before the family's arrival.  ?? Paulus returning to Racquet Club, that night, with the bag??


Something bothered me from the confession of Joran and that's his peculiar statement about wanting to make sure that he was on the Casino camera the next night!

This induces an interesting other scenario that could explain a lot of the open issues:

0. Natalee died on the beach.
1. Joran temporarily buried her body under the mangroves.
2. He walked/rushed home and spent a lot of time on the web.
3. He only contacted his friend with the boat the next day (e.g Racquet club)
4. They made sure to be on camera in as many of the casino's
5. They walked to the beach when it was dark and loaded the body in the boat and disposed of her.
6. Plenty of friends around that nicht.

Wasn't there the story that Joran and a friend left the hotels go collect some money?
7. They went back and made sure to be as much as possible on camera again.

Nicely fits:
* the timelines
* that no additional phone calls are needed
* the police having accounted for all boats during night of 29/30, but not for the night of 30/31
* the motive for Joran wanting to be on cam the next day
* his eagerness to go to tennis lessons and walk to the hotel strip even though he felt sick (could check burying spot and be on camera later)
* the boat sailing to the mangrove spot reducing the distance to carry the body.
* maybe even the document that analyses the cell phone triangulation showing Joran heading north (I recall having seen an offical document on this somewhere, but I'm not sure about the precise timing during the day)

hmmmm

That's far better thinking than ALE does. 

[Tylergal]

Tylergal,
 
I remember in the very beginning of all of this that it may have been your DH who contacted Dan Rhiel before we even knew the name of "the girl" who was missing.  I believe that is how Dan came to be aware of the situation so early when it was just a local news item.
 
We have been standing by the girl since then and I will continue to do so but it is for Beth that I hang in here now.  Natalee is beyond any Earthly needs now but I would do anything within my power to sustain and support Beth because I am a mother, too.
 
We have chased Grindle codes, run the Red Queen's race, chased after sex slavers and the Russian Mafia.  We have had our lives threatened, our computers' hacked, been sent more porn than Hugh Hefner, lambasted and banned, giving new meaning to the old cliché "been thrown out of better places than this"!
 
We have waded through chat rooms in foreign languages we could barely grasp, looked at more MySpace pages than the average college freshman, gone through real life weddings, funerals, births and deaths, sickness and health, but always managed to find time to make a post or two if only to be counted among those supporting. 
 
We've strained our eyes looking for pictures within pictures and hidden meanings and messages, been accused of being related to people in this investigation and having some hidden agenda.  As the shadows grow longer in the East for me, I am less inclined to explain myself and my skin grows ever thicker but one thing I do know for sure.  And I am sure I speak for many when I say this but I am very happy to have had you as a friend along for this wild journey on which we have all been for so long now.  I am always deeply flattered when people often confuse us despite the fact we live hundreds of miles apart.
 
I don't think we have learned much more for all those efforts than we knew almost immediately but we have uncovered every rock and nook and cranny that has been presented.  I am proud to have you as my friend as that friendship has been one of the bright spots in this sad and tragic episode.  And while I certainly stand with The Girl, it is for the mother that I remain after all this time.  My own children have traveled too close to this circle of events to turn away but even if they hadn't, I think any one with a heart could feel for Beth.
 
Anyone, that is, except for those conducting this bogus investigation and with the power to set things right.  And I do believe that is what will be their ultimate undoing.  No, we can't force them to do the right thing but the whole world is watching and wondering just what kind of people are these that would do this.  Liars lie, thieves steal so what do their actions say about them? 
 
Thank you, Tylergal, for being you and being my friend.  You have made this all bearable in so many ways and been a constant source of encouragement and comfort to us all.  And I am so glad you did not get blown away yesterday in the storms but that was much too close for comfort.
 
My rant for the day. . .

.

God bless Scared Monkeys! I love you all!!

Spooky, that Anna is a very nice and concerned person, who cares for Natalee (and Beth) and all her Monkey friends.  We have certainly missed you here and it is good to see you, even when just lurking.  I hope your life is as happy and bright as you.  Do drop in more often. 

[JE]

Ready to call it a night.

Did anyone see this, at RU, today:

dugo  PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:01 am         

Moszco .. also former lawyer of Eduardo Matthew..

We might hear a little more about Vocking King......hmmmm

Thats very interesting! I guess we know now why she picked him!

Night!

Now, I would not say that is how and why she picked him.  She probably chose this lawyer in concert with JQK.  So if he turned out to be the same attorney as Matthews had used, so note it be, reputation and performance trump gossip any day.


the case of Eduardo Mathew vs The Netherlands
http://www.ius-software.si/EUII/EUCHR/dokumenti/2005/09/CASE_OF_MATHEW_v._THE_NETHERLANDS_29_09_2005.html

[MumInOhio]

JE....I posted some links on page 112 of the Shango thread, to the Shango and Simian poste. I didn't know if you had read them or not. I keep bumping them up so I can refer to them easier.

[JE]

JE....I posted some links on page 112 of the Shango thread, to the Shango and Simian poste. I didn't know if you had read them or not. I keep bumping them up so I can refer to them easier.

I ll check em thx

[sandy leiva]

Since it was a weekend...how late would Moomba's be open?  Maybe until 2:00 AM or so?  Someone was there cleaning up at least.  CnC was open until 1:00 AM.  A bar near a hotel resort would probabaly stay open later...Joran had a friend there...he walked up to the Marriott...not to use the phone...but to get help...not to help Natalee...but to cover his butt...MOO

Im not sure how much of this fact or satire
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/11/new-suspect-emerges-in-aruba-murder.html

I always felt there was something to do with the fact Mark Jr, Joran, & friend
(Alex or Lorenzo?) are all together at C&C wearing the same shirt, closely shaved heads....Some sort of "club"?  Even SC was there and others?  It was as though the "predator game" was in effect.  Joran says "I wanted to party more & Natalee wanted to come with us." They probably did drive around for the next party. I wonder why Joran stops at his house?  Drugs, condoms? They most likely met up with GVC and Guido at Arashi Beach & headed for Moomba's...Which wasd open late that night.  This would put them all near the Marriott/Holiday Inn. Where "something bad happened" first. I also believe the report of a girl being taken to a white vehicle (The vehicle following Deepak?) The "party" most likely moves south to Colony Beach where some evidence may have been found.

Had MIP6, Reality, Renfro and others had kept themselves off the forums with their vivicious attacks on Natalee and her family....Things would not be pointing to them & WHO they are protecting. JMO.

Would Joran have had the courage to take daddy's car when he stopped at the house?   They went to the house, because it's in the PV's...they knew someone may know this and thus a story to cover "the reason we stopped at Joran's".

Good point i always wondered why they would go there for no reason

   


Shango alluded that Joran wanted to be first with natalee when he said "you got in trouble for that- you were to deliver the girl"  this was when they were rolling thru the maze. was the sloot house the drop off point for Natalee,  Remember deepak said "Joran your own father"

[Bearlyhere]

You who, Robots!!!  (Said is sultry robot voice).
Come out and play.  Don't forget your oil can.  I'll bring the wrench so we can unwind.

[Bearlyhere]

Oops, clean up in isle, 20.  Girl Robot slipped on grease spot!

[Bearlyhere]

You who, Robots!!!  (Said is sultry robot voice).

Come out and play.  Don't forget your oil can.  I'll bring the wrench so we can unwind.

^{Edited one time to replace dented robot.}

[mrskub]

The word is getting out! 

About dot com published this article on 2/7/08 regarding Spring Break:
http://parentingteens.about.com/b/2008/02/07/spring-break-for-teens-in-aruba-i-dont-think-so.htm

Denise's Parenting Teens Blog
From Denise Witmer,
Your Guide to Parenting of Adolescents.

Spring Break for Teens in Aruba, I Don’t Think So

After years of waiting, the parents of Natalee Holloway get to hear what happen to their daughter on a video out of the mouth of Joran van der Sloot, the young man who was the last to see Natalee alive. It seems, from the video, that he knew all along what happened to Natalee. Beth Twitty, Natalee’s mother, said on Greta Van Susteren’s show last night, she felt vindicated after seeing the tape. Guess the authorities in Aruba should have a dose of her mother’s intuition, since they were unable to do anything about this.

It is hard enough to allow/watch your teen or young adult travel. They are bound to make some mistakes and trouble can find them. But to not be able to trust the country’s authorities? I know you feel the same way I do when I say: Not this parent – not my kid! I know a lot of teens who like to travel, they’ve been to Europe and a couple are planning another trip. With the competitiveness of the travel industry, you have to wonder what Aruba is thinking? If your teen wants to go somewhere fun, beautiful and beachy this year for spring break, it’s my humble opinion you should cross Aruba off his/her list. I feel it's an issue of trust, I trust Aruba the least because of how the investigation was handled. What do you think?

Try these places instead:

    * Cancun Resort Choices
    * Disneyland Vacations (around the world)
    * Top 10 Spring Break Hot Spots for 2008 from the Student Travel Guide

[Ebb]

Buckeye:
Yes I remember the mention of Stephanie as Joran's girlfriend, then never again. Her last name is Croes. She was a Miss Aruba contestant along with another woman last name Oduber. Stephanie had that creepy zorpia site into satanism and posted photos of the lighthouse, the beach, the dunes etc with an ominous, leading statement about the girl. I just wish I'd saved it. She was also a 'friend' of Loco Stefy.    Now she has a new site, less creepy but still into witchcraft, and still lists Joran as a friend. She is very anti-American, or at least, believes us to be the enemy of native peoples everywhere. We've never heard that she was questioned in this case. She must be very protected.

I'll quit harping on this. I rarely post because I only know what I read here, but I've been reading from the beginning and have nothing but respect for all you monkeys, your amazing breadth of expertise, your loyalty and determination. And beyond that, the work you've done is really changing the reality of reporting in the world! and that is fascinating to watch. Ebb.

[MumInOhio]

Buckeye:
Yes I remember the mention of Stephanie as Joran's girlfriend, then never again. Her last name is Croes. She was a Miss Aruba contestant along with another woman last name Oduber. Stephanie had that creepy zorpia site into satanism and posted photos of the lighthouse, the beach, the dunes etc with an ominous, leading statement about the girl. I just wish I'd saved it. She was also a 'friend' of Loco Stefy.    Now she has a new site, less creepy but still into witchcraft, and still lists Joran as a friend. She is very anti-American, or at least, believes us to be the enemy of native peoples everywhere. We've never heard that she was questioned in this case. She must be very protected.

I'll quit harping on this. I rarely post because I only know what I read here, but I've been reading from the beginning and have nothing but respect for all you monkeys, your amazing breadth of expertise, your loyalty and determination. And beyond that, the work you've done is really changing the reality of reporting in the world! and that is fascinating to watch. Ebb.

Hi Ebb...I think it was Flor and Elaine that he mentioned at the time...he was asked if both had a cell IIRC...I'm not very familiar with Stephanie only what I've seen here.

[Bearlyhere]

Interesting post by FierlJepper at scrux.

Could account for guards at Wyndham seeing group on beach several hours before the family's arrival.  ?? Paulus returning to Racquet Club, that night, with the bag??


Something bothered me from the confession of Joran and that's his peculiar statement about wanting to make sure that he was on the Casino camera the next night!

This induces an interesting other scenario that could explain a lot of the open issues:

0. Natalee died on the beach.
1. Joran temporarily buried her body under the mangroves.
2. He walked/rushed home and spent a lot of time on the web.
3. He only contacted his friend with the boat the next day (e.g Racquet club)
4. They made sure to be on camera in as many of the casino's
5. They walked to the beach when it was dark and loaded the body in the boat and disposed of her.
6. Plenty of friends around that nicht.

Wasn't there the story that Joran and a friend left the hotels go collect some money?
7. They went back and made sure to be as much as possible on camera again.

Nicely fits:
* the timelines
* that no additional phone calls are needed
* the police having accounted for all boats during night of 29/30, but not for the night of 30/31
* the motive for Joran wanting to be on cam the next day
* his eagerness to go to tennis lessons and walk to the hotel strip even though he felt sick (could check burying spot and be on camera later)
* the boat sailing to the mangrove spot reducing the distance to carry the body.
* maybe even the document that analyses the cell phone triangulation showing Joran heading north (I recall having seen an offical document on this somewhere, but I'm not sure about the precise timing during the day)

hmmmm

He said he checked the beach for about 2 minutes later that day to see if his sneakers were there.  That's not very long to look for sneakers (which weren't there anyway).  What if the real reason he checked the next day was to see if Natalee was still there?