Natalee Case Discussion #733 2/17 - 2/21/08

[Tamikosmom]

On the record 2-20-08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4

Thank you *******.

It is late.  I will listen to this Greta/Kelly interview in the morning.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

[Observer]

On the record 2-20-08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4

Thank you *******.

It is late.  I will listen to this Greta/Kelly interview in the morning.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

Nite Janet..You did some great work again today! 

[Silverfox]

In this pic of the Marriot can anyone see the "public telephone" Tacoman says Joran used?

Where was the phone? Close to the pool? But I still think Joran never used a payphone. I think they were in the back by the dumpster like witnesses claimed,putting a body into a blue tarp and then into a white PU.

Marriott (From Johan at FOK)

*******, someone posted the other night that they wondered if there was any pics of the area at the Marriott where the alleged payphone was since apparently tacoman was citing as potential evidence a payphone where Joran makes a call.  If the payphone is new and recent and non-existent at that time then tacoman is sucked in by his client yet again.  I have looked and looked in this photo supposedly taken on May 31 2005 and cannot see where the payphone is...maybe I am looking in the wrong place -- or, maybe this photo proves the phone was not there then...

[Bearlyhere]

Dana's show is up.  It's a good one!

[anidac]

*******, what is the significance of those pics? I can't follow the text description.

Was on a dutch forum, about the Marriot...btw: good the kalpoe's are talking!!!

WHAT!!!  I must have missed something.  Can someone please file me in on the two talking K's? Please?

[Rob]

If this has been posted before (I didn't see it) please feel free to delete. TIA

http://www.steveyuhas.com/column.html

Beth Twitty: Van der Sloot a Liar – Confession Ignored

By: Steve Yuhas

Cable programs, desperate for another missing person or cop killing husband, broke in with news alerts last week as word came from Holland that a tape was being released that purported to show Joran van der Sloot confessing to killing Alabaman Natalee Holloway while she vacationed in Aruba in 2005. So compelling was the tape that Beth Twitty jumped on a plane to travel to Holland to see it.


 When she returned to the United States she took to the talk show circuit and began telling the tale of watching pieces of the tape where van der Sloot talks openly, while smoking pot, about how her daughter died in Aruba in 2005.

It could be that the tape is true and Joran is guilty of disposing of a body because nothing in the tape remotely comes close to the cloak and dagger style of death that Twitty has been touting over the years as the way her daughter met her unfortunate fate.  Van der Sloot does not mention passing Holloway any drugs nor does he participate in the disposal of her body (he called his body disposal friend for that) – so with all of the scrutiny of the tape why is Joran still free?

Quite simply it is because Twitty trained the world that van der Sloot was a liar and pariah who could not be trusted.  So, when parts of the taped ‘confession’ began falling apart we (and investigators) did as we’ve been trained: we did not believe him.

 

The conundrum for Beth Twitty is now that America has bought into her “Joran drugged then killed Natalee and threw her into the ocean” scenario – when the tape fell apart so too did the confession.  For anyone else in the world this tape would be pay dirt, but for Twitty the tape is the beginning of the end for the re-re-re-re-arrest dream for Joran van der Sloot.  Even if the re-re-re-re-arrest happens all an attorney need do is play all of the countless appearances where Beth Twitty spins her tale and then tells us all to discount all that comes out of the mouth of van der Sloot.

Twitty, and only Twitty, can be blamed for the situation where a confession is insufficient to convict a person of any crime since he cannot be believed.  Twitty pushed a scenario so forcefully that her daughter was drugged and murdered by van der Sloot that anything as simple as an accidental death followed by a terribly callous disposal is too simple to believe.

But, no matter how the world media cuts up the tape at most van der Sloot comes across as an uncaring cad who called a friend after Holloway died after having suffered some kind of seizure.

There is no way to verify the story because the person, who was named in the tape, was located and he was not in Aruba at the time of the disappearance.  You have to question, though, would someone really remain quiet about disposing of a body that captivated the world for more than two years?  It is hard enough to find a designated driver when you are in college – can you imagine a designated body disposer?

It is just an odd story that doesn’t add up.  Even so –Twitty would have had hope in punishing those responsible for her daughters death, but the tape doesn’t show van der Sloot admitting anything illegal except the disposal of a body and that, I’m told from an Aruba attorney, is little more than the equivalent of a misdemeanor.  Driving drunk in Alabama gets you more time in prison than getting rid of a body so even if Joran is telling the truth about what happened – he didn’t kill her and he didn’t do anything that wrong.  Disgusting yes, but hardly illegal.

 

Over the last few days I have received hundreds of emails asking me if I owe the Twitty’s an apology for the things I said and written about Beth Twitty and her kin-folk over the years.  The answer is a very short no.  Nothing ever said about Twitty was untrue or not supported by facts.  Is van der Sloot the model of what I’d want one of my nephews or brothers to be?  Never.  But his being a cad does not make him a murderer.

Beth Twitty did not just accuse Joran of disposing of a body – she accused him, quite specifically, of slipping Natalee Holloway drugs while in a club then killing her.  There has never been a time when Twitty changed that scenario because her daughter could not have been drinking or doing drugs because she just didn’t “do that.”

Joran’s tape is salacious and it made for good television, but because it is van der Sloot something, anything, has to be verified before any legal action is taken against him and there simply is nothing new in the tape – other than a ‘confession’ under the influence of pot that says nothing happened. Joran’s story, if anything, exonerates him of murder.  All he did, if we can believe him now, is call a friend to get rid of a body.  A horrible thing, but not murder.

The sad thing here is that Beth Twitty is partly to blame for people being skeptical of the ‘confession’ of van der Sloot.  Perhaps had she not been so forceful in desiring to paint a teenager a killer people would believe him today.  Twitty said everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie and to discount that two year training program today would be silly unless something in the tape can be verified.  As of this writing nothing has.

 

Steve Yuhas is a radio talk show host on AM 600 KOGO in southern California and may be reached at steve@steveyuhas.com or www.steveyuhas.com
 

[Dihannah1]

Thanks Rob!  Does he post at RU?

Shall we start sending him ALL the info. we have?  Another journalist who only takes bits and pieces to write a column, without reviewing all the facts!     

[Rob]

First of all Good Morning.

Second, Steve Yuhas is a total idiot. His brand of unique conservatism must be the brand that McCain courts. That guy is not a conservative. I have no idea what he is, but it ain't a conservative.

Third and most importantly, the confession was not believed because it was not supported by the known evidence. That part is true. In the confession Joran places himself and Natalee away from his home, where I and many others now believe the crime occurred. So, the Judge did get that right, so some kudos there... even if minor. Sorry for the run-on and on sentence.

In a sense the judge has told everyone they will not re-arrest Joran for the confession because it is not correct. He has steered everyone away from the beach again and back to the Sloot house of horrors. So thanks for that!

And he steers the crime back to the person with no alibi or timeline - PAULUS. Thanks for that too.

And arrest would have insulated the two people most likely last seen with Natalee. Joran and Paulus. Since that didn't happen, the door is now wide open on PAULUS. And again, thanks for that!

There was no beach, and it's been confirmed. Now ALE go get em!

Lock up Paulus.

[Rob]

Thanks Rob!  Does he post at RU?

Shall we start sending him ALL the info. we have?  Another journalist who only takes bits and pieces to write a column, without reviewing all the facts!     

Hi Di, that was actually from yesterday - 2-20-2008. I forgot the date... so sorry.

I'm not a writer and I think I could do better than that.
 

[Dihannah1]

Well he's an idiot that's for sure!  Do you know what Caps was talking about earlier, where he said something about Kalpoes are talking?  It was a couple pages back and somebody else asked too.  No response,  did I miss something?

[Rob]

Well he's an idiot that's for sure!  Do you know what Caps was talking about earlier, where he said something about Kalpoes are talking?  It was a couple pages back and somebody else asked too.  No response,  did I miss something?

no clue... I have never even Satish udder a word. LOL. I doubt they are talking, but who knows.

[Rob]

Well he's an idiot that's for sure!  Do you know what Caps was talking about earlier, where he said something about Kalpoes are talking?  It was a couple pages back and somebody else asked too.  No response,  did I miss something?

no clue... I have never even heard Satish udder a word. LOL. I doubt they are talking, but who knows.

self edit

[anidac]

Good morning Rob!

I always seem to just miss you in the cage these days.  I mostly read and don't post very much.  I don't have the kind of time I had for the first 2 years of this case.

I have to run out the door to do a presentation this morning for a group of our international VP's.  Wish me luck!  It's great to see you back on the board and active once again.

Have a great day.  I will check in off and on throughout the day and evening.

[Rob]

Good to see you also Anidac...and good luck... knock em dead!

[Dihannah1]

Heli from RU

GRETA Feb 20, 2008 / John Q Kelly TRANSCRIPT

Greta van Susteren
On The Record
February 20, 2008

Greta:

Beth is set to sue Joran van der Sloot in Holland. That's what Dutch newspapers are saying. Is it true?

And the Aruban Chief Prosecutor now wants to question Patrick van der Eem, the man who secretly taped Joran van der Sloot talking about Natalee's death. Van der Eem says he has nothing to hide and the prosecutor just has to call him.

Joining us livein New York is John Q. Kelly, the lawyer for Natalee's parents.

John, what's the story on this civil suit in Holland? We've gotten lots of calls on it.

John:

I've seen a couple of articles on it too Greta. The lawyer that's been quoted is not someone Beth ever contacted, it's not someone she's ever spoken to nor have I, but you know I guess it's someone who's willing to put forth some suggestions and we'll always listen to those

Greta:

If what I understand from the news articles to be correct, he intends to sue him in Holland, is that right?

John:

There's been no discussion of that Greta, this is not some lawyer that Beth

Greta:

So is he making it up?

John:

I think it's just someone who offered to come forward and make suggestions, offer some help if we wanted it you know, and that's fine Greta but yeah, it's not accurate.

Greta:

Does this come through Peter de Vries, the Dutch television guy at all?

John: Greta, it hasn't come from Beth and it hasn't come from myself, we'll just leave it at that

Greta:

That's a dodge if I ever heard one

John:

I spend my whole life dodging you Greta

Greta:

I'm not that stupid

John:

I spend my whole life dodging you, Greta since I got involved in this case, right from the start I've looked for civil remedies. Obviously, not that's any secret to me.

Beth and Dave are very comfortable with the lawyer they have, very confident in that, you know, we know the civil remedies available to Aruba. We were hoping the criminal case would result in a prosecution and that's what we're still looking for.

Greta:

Alright, let's talk about Aruba. What is going on there with Patrick, the guy who taped Joran? He's now in Aruba vacationing and talking to someone about a book?

John:

I think there've been a lot of discussions about books, you know after the show came out but you know, he's more than willing to talk to the prosecution. The prosecution should talk to him. I actually had a very long talk with Hans Mos today, probably a half hour or more, going over things.

I mean, it's no secret I'm not happy with what's going on down there, I'm not happy with what's going on right now down there and I'd like to see something done. I think they have a strong circumstantial case right now against Joran and I wish they'd pull the trigger on him (it?), I wish they'd act.

Greta:

This is what's kind of silly, you say Hans wants to talk to him, Patrick wants to talk to Hans, the prosecutor. Why don't they just do it? I mean, this has been going on for like, just do it. You tell me they both want to talk to each other, the taper wants to talk to the prosecutor and the prosecutor wants to talk to the taper but it hasn't happened.

John:

It hasn't happened yet, I assume it will happen

Greta:

Is Hans Mos back from his vacation in Holland?

John:

They're on their own watch down there Greta, they move at their own pace and as I said it gets me agitated just talking about it, but looking at what they have right now you've got a young man who walks into a bar, he pays for a drink, he handles it himself, he hands it to Natalee, she drinks it, she leaves with him, you know as soon as she gets in the car, she's incoherent, she's lapsing in and out of consciousness, he's the last one with her alive and he makes up at least 3 different stories in terms of what happened to her and he refuses to co-operate and she's never heard from again. I mean it's not really hard to figure out.

Greta:

And the thing that's got me is he must have told the police the first time he spoke to them, because why would they have asked Jug about she shaking and the epilepsy type seizure or something. I think to myself, what are the aruban police up to but that's for another day

John:

Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta: May 31, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9

Greta:

Something's funny, I wish, something's not quite right, I wish the State Department would get a little busy on this one. John I gotta go but we'll do a lot more on this, thank you.

[BUCKSHOT]

Nobody watching Greta?   She's been interviewing JQK who spoke with MOS today.   Greta wants to see our State Department involved.  She mentioned how the cops new something from the beginning from what they asked Jug about the seizures.  I hope Carpe get's the video, which I'm sure.   JQK,  is extremely frustrated and says they have enough circumstantial evidence and Natalee has NOT hired a civil attorney in NL, at least yet.  He said that news did not come from him, Dave or Beth....

I watched it Dihannah, was very good. JQK reveals there are not statements of Joran's in the police files until June 9th. Kalpoes and everybody else are in there.

June 9th is four days after the guards were arrested and Joran is on the record for helping dream up the Holiday Inn story with Deepak, so where the hell is Joran's Holiday Inn statement?

Where is the statement where Joran said he walked home?

Where is the statement where Joran said K2 dropped him off at his house and drove off with Natalee?

Where is the statement Paulus said he helped edit with Van der Straten?

More important where is the satatement where Joran mentioned Natalee had a seizure that caused the police to ask her family if she was an epileptic or prone to seizures?


THE CORRUPTION IS COMING OUT. NO SMALL WONDER RUDY AND NELSON ARE SO QUIET.

No worries...right...They will add his statements to the file.
Unfortunately, they will not be his.

[BUCKSHOT]

Nobody watching Greta?   She's been interviewing JQK who spoke with MOS today.   Greta wants to see our State Department involved.  She mentioned how the cops new something from the beginning from what they asked Jug about the seizures.  I hope Carpe get's the video, which I'm sure.   JQK,  is extremely frustrated and says they have enough circumstantial evidence and Natalee has NOT hired a civil attorney in NL, at least yet.  He said that news did not come from him, Dave or Beth....

I watched it Dihannah, was very good. JQK reveals there are not statements of Joran's in the police files until June 9th. Kalpoes and everybody else are in there.

June 9th is four days after the guards were arrested and Joran is on the record for helping dream up the Holiday Inn story with Deepak, so where the hell is Joran's Holiday Inn statement?

Where is the statement where Joran said he walked home?

Where is the statement where Joran said K2 dropped him off at his house and drove off with Natalee?

Where is the statement Paulus said he helped edit with Van der Straten?

More important where is the satatement where Joran mentioned Natalee had a seizure that caused the police to ask her family if she was an epileptic or prone to seizures?


THE CORRUPTION IS COMING OUT. NO SMALL WONDER RUDY AND NELSON ARE SO QUIET.

No worries...right...They will add his statements to the file.
Unfortunately, they will not be his.

[martini]

This is not to be used as a legal reference tool.
It just a sample of Articles that give ppl Rights.

Know your Rights!

Article 76- indicates that a police officer is expected to meticulously and lawfully carry out his duties and to conduct him or herself in the manner expected of a good public servant.

Article 49- Appointments to the bench are made following nomination by the Dutch secretary of state for Interior Affairs and Kingdom Affairs, part of the cooperation agreement between the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.

Article 43- of the constitution of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, guarantees the function of the Kingdom. If there is a total breakdown in the areas of Justice, good governance, a member of the Kingdom Council of Ministers can intervene.

Article 3- of the Declaration of Human Rights states that everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. Life, liberty and personal security cannot be achieved if people live in a dangerous national environment that is neither safe nor secure.

Time to clean house and I do not mean my house 

[Bladerunner]

This is not to be used as a legal reference tool.
It just a sample of Articles that give ppl Rights.

Know your Rights!

Article 76- indicates that a police officer is expected to meticulously and lawfully carry out his duties and to conduct him or herself in the manner expected of a good public servant.

Article 49- Appointments to the bench are made following nomination by the Dutch secretary of state for Interior Affairs and Kingdom Affairs, part of the cooperation agreement between the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.

Article 43- of the constitution of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, guarantees the function of the Kingdom. If there is a total breakdown in the areas of Justice, good governance, a member of the Kingdom Council of Ministers can intervene.
Article 3- of the Declaration of Human Rights states that everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. Life, liberty and personal security cannot be achieved if people live in a dangerous national environment that is neither safe nor secure.

Time to clean house and I do not mean my house 

Glad to see they have a contingency plan to deal with corruption, to bad to this point nobody has the guts to do anything about it. Make no mistake, this is a Dutch problem and unless they step in the BS will continue.

DUTCH TIME TO WAKE THE F UP

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/    02/20/2008

FBI involved with former minister Tico Croes’ investigation 

According to lawyer Chris Lejuez (in the picture left, next to Tico Croes), the FBO has also investigated the former minister Croes.

ORANJESTAD – After the Public Prosecutor (OM) had asked the American authorities to assist with the criminal case Fondo Desaroyo Nobo (FDN), the FBI started to investigate the former AVP-minister of Finance, Tico Croes. 

That’s what Croes’ lawyer Chris Lejuez said, who yesterday during his two-hour defense not only requested acquittal, but also an alternative punishment if his clients would be convicted.  He did this to avoid that Croes gets an annotation on his police record, which would make it very difficult for him to get a green card in the United States.  The former minister teaches at the University of Florida and with a conviction, he runs the risk to loose his job, says the lawyer.  He already has problems with applying for a green card, because he appears on an FBI list.   

The OM confirms that the FBI was involved during the criminal investigation, but it is just a formality.  The National detective interrogated Croes in the US, for which the American Justice-minister was asked for legal assistance.  The detectives also asked permission to search Croes’ home, which was eventually not done.  “The liaison with the department has informed the FBI.  That is usual with certain requests done in the US.  The FBI was present at the interrogation, just to make sure that everything goes according to the rules, but to say that they have done an investigation themselves, goes too far.”  The fact is that with certain conviction, the person does make the FBI-list.  “The US is just stricter.  An annotation on the police record can indeed be a problem for receiving a green card.”   

Lejeuz asked the judge to consider an alternative conviction and used Sidney Ponson’s case as an example.  In that case, the lawyer managed to get an alternative punishment; he had to pay a considerable amount of money to charity and the legal costs.  Lejeuz said that this has prevented Ponson from ruining his career.  Besides, the lawyer is not assuming that his client has not committed the criminal facts the OM is accusing him of.  The money he received from Aris was for the election campaign of AVP.  It was not a matter of bribery.  The lawyer continued justifying and denying all the accusations.   

* * * 

Big drop in number of cruise passengers 

ORANJESTAD – It appears from the monthly report of the Central Bank of Aruba (CBA) that compared to December 2006, the room occupancy of the hotels as well as the number of cruise passengers dropped in the same month in 2007.   Although the room occupancy of the hotels dropped in December, there was a growth in 2007.   

Not only did the cruise passengers drop in December of 2007, but also the number of cruise ships that visited the island; with respectively 8.3 and 11.8 percent.  Over the entire 2007, the number of cruise passengers dropped to 481.775, 18.5 percent less than in 2006 and the number of cruise ships remained that same as in 2006.     

Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) has not yet published the number of tourists that stayed on the island and those that just spent the night during August till December inclusive.   

The CBA has therefore used the figures of AAA on the number of travelers that came to Aruba via air.  These numbers increased for the first 11 months of 2007 with 9.8 percent.  These figures only give an indication of a growth or drop in the tourism season, because the length of the stay was not considered.