Natalee Case Discussion #734 2/21 - 2/24/08

[Tamikosmom]

In jorans statement of june 14th there is this line

Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable.

In my opinion he means the timeline, and who was where in the early morning hours of may 30th.
(msn to show that he was home etc)

I doubt that by the story he means the holiday inn lie. Why would that story be made more believable by msn contact and telephone calls.Same holds true for the "I left her at the beach" story. Frequent phone or computer contact does nothing for credibility.

Now if my assuption is correct and "make our story believable" refers to the early morning hours of may 30th then it seems they are making sure they have some sort of alibi when there is no reason for them to do so. At this point they did not know (so they say) that anything had happened to Natalee.

please correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks JE.

You are correct.  At the very least ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are guilty of obstructing the investigation.  However ... inquiring minds want to know ... WHY??

Janet

[klaasend]

Oh, nuts.

klaas or someone (moderator) - Please Quote my post with the Diario articles, on the M&C thread, please. TY.

(I usually copy before I post, so I keep the coding ... )

ok

[AVA]

does anyone know what "choller" means.......it was in the audio recording inside the police van between K2 and J

[Kiwi]

Klaasend thanks. I went in there it does talk about Freddy a little. The conversation that caught my eye is from board 733 reply 968 What Does Freddie Know? The spot is where Deepak is talking to Satish and says Van der Sloot trusts Freddy with his life. It appears to be a memory of Deepak's repeating Joran's words from an earlier conversation. This does match up with Joran's actual words about trusting Daury with his life. Can you help again and move that over to the Daury = Freddy thread please. Just to keep it together.

[bluwaters]

Blah ... you are correct.  Once the video recording was aired ... there is no way that the "powers that be" could deceptively  maniuplate/edit.  However ... I question why Hans Mos never took witness statements from Peter Devries and Patrick following the airing.

I cannot comprehend how the three judge panel was able to make a competent ruling without witness statements that were provided by the two who were behind the video recording.

It was if the ruling in Joran van der Sloots favor was a foregone conclusion.

Take note ... Hans Mos was even instrumental in regards to the three judge panel's favorable ruling.  He implied that Joran's words could be disregarded.  After all ... he had a personality disorder.

 

Janet

+++++++++++


Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not

My apologies if I got the multiple quotes wrong, but this really puzzles me. Joran has really good defence attorneys, yet even the prosecution feels the need to defend him! AFAIK, there have not been any psychological tests of Joran done by qualified professionals in the mental health field. I don't recall that any have even been ordered. Since when are lawyers able to make and present to judges such a diagnosis? They sure do things differently in Aruba. 

[JE]

does anyone know what "choller" means.......it was in the audio recording inside the police van between K2 and J

I believe a choller is a drug addict a junkie

[Rob]

In jorans statement of june 14th there is this line

Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable.

In my opinion he means the timeline, and who was where in the early morning hours of may 30th.
(msn to show that he was home etc)

I doubt that by the story he means the holiday inn lie. Why would that story be made more believable by msn contact and telephone calls.Same holds true for the "I left her at the beach" story. Frequent phone or computer contact does nothing for credibility.

Now if my assuption is correct and "make our story believable" refers to the early morning hours of may 30th then it seems they are making sure they have some sort of alibi when there is no reason for them to do so. At this point they did not know (so they say) that anything had happened to Natalee.

please correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks JE.

You are correct.  At the very least ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are guilty of obstructing the investigation.  However ... inquiring minds want to know ... WHY??

Janet

because Daddy is moving the body and they want to look free and clear.

who has no time line or alibi?

[AVA]

does anyone know what "choller" means.......it was in the audio recording inside the police van between K2 and J

I believe a choller is a drug addict a junkie

thanks....I had no idea

[Blonde]

does anyone know what "choller" means.......it was in the audio recording inside the police van between K2 and J

I believe a choller is a drug addict a junkie

Chollers are homeless addicts who usually live/hang out in "Choller Houses" aka crack houses.

[JE]

does anyone know what "choller" means.......it was in the audio recording inside the police van between K2 and J

I believe a choller is a drug addict a junkie

thanks....I had no idea

The choller they mention in the tape is one that attacked one of the kalpoe brothers during carnaval and that joron subsequently threw of a bridge

[mariloo]

I have aske this before but noone seems to remember.  Did we all hear in the beginning that Nat called someone on her cellphone or was this a hoax??

[Observer]

OT....Just want to let you know we are leaving for Boston for the tourism show.  It is a mess out there with snow and other nasty stuff.  We will be filling you in on the show with pictures, and emails.  For everyone driving in this stuff, be very careful.  Hope to see you all soon!

 

Yes,white out conditions where I am at and not expected to taper off until midnight tonight. Up to a inch a hour of snow..Drive safe!

[JE]

In jorans statement of june 14th there is this line

Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable.

In my opinion he means the timeline, and who was where in the early morning hours of may 30th.
(msn to show that he was home etc)

I doubt that by the story he means the holiday inn lie. Why would that story be made more believable by msn contact and telephone calls.Same holds true for the "I left her at the beach" story. Frequent phone or computer contact does nothing for credibility.

Now if my assuption is correct and "make our story believable" refers to the early morning hours of may 30th then it seems they are making sure they have some sort of alibi when there is no reason for them to do so. At this point they did not know (so they say) that anything had happened to Natalee.

please correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks JE.

You are correct.  At the very least ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are guilty of obstructing the investigation.  However ... inquiring minds want to know ... WHY??

Janet

If they are making alibis that night that means they know what happened.
They know why.

[msmarple]

I have aske this before but noone seems to remember.  Did we all hear in the beginning that Nat called someone on her cellphone or was this a hoax??

There were rumors to that effect, but the family emphatically denies that any phone calls were made. (It wouldn't have been Nat's cell phone anyway, because she didn't have international calling - a feature Beth is strongly pushing in her Safe Travel lectures.)

[martini]

25 Psychic Detectives working on the Holloway case~

[Finbar]

Re: chatting a lot to make it seem believable.

I think the use of WiFi by J2K should be seriously factored into the timeline.

2K HAD to know of WiFi through their Internet Cafe. I think their Cafe is a WiFi hotspot. Buki de Telefoon Aruba lists them.

One can use WiFi via a cell phone to call one's home computer. They could send text messages to the home computer via cell phone. That would make it appear that 2K were at home when they were not.

The gardener saw J2K when they were supposed to be home. How can this be? ALE discounted the gardener's statement due to the chats that occurred "at home".

I think ALE are either ignorant or this collision of facts left them with an open door to let J2K free, by turning a blind eye.

It is also interesting that 2K manipulated their computer's clock.

Fin

[mariloo]

I have aske this before but noone seems to remember.  Did we all hear in the beginning that Nat called someone on her cellphone or was this a hoax??

There were rumors to that effect, but the family emphatically denies that any phone calls were made. (It wouldn't have been Nat's cell phone anyway, because she didn't have international calling - a feature Beth is strongly pushing in her Safe Travel lectures.)

I got the impression she was using someone else's cellphone and the caller sounded distressed saying ," I don't know any of these people".  It has been so long ago and I could not remember if anything came of this or not.  Thanks for responding though.

[klaasend]

Re: chatting a lot to make it seem believable.

I think the use of WiFi by J2K should be seriously factored into the timeline.

2K HAD to know of WiFi through their Internet Cafe. I think their Cafe is a WiFi hotspot. Buki de Telefoon Aruba lists them.

One can use WiFi via a cell phone to call one's home computer. They could send text messages to the home computer via cell phone. That would make it appear that 2K were at home when they were not.

The gardener saw J2K when they were supposed to be home. How can this be? ALE discounted the gardener's statement due to the chats that occurred "at home".

I think ALE are either ignorant or this collision of facts left them with an open door to let J2K free, by turning a blind eye.

It is also interesting that 2K manipulated their computer's clock.

Fin

I agree!  Not just wifi cellphone but laptops as well.  If you go through these documents just filed in the Dr. Phil case it appears Deepak and Satish did have wifi available to them:

Latest from McGraw/Kalpoe posted 02/22/08

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/021408D_MTDismiss.pdf


http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/021508P_DKCompelResp.pdf


http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/021508P_SKCompelResp.pdf

[Blonde]

OHHHH Fin  I feel my head getting tight

[mariloo]

Klaas, can you tell me what happened to my cute little monkey avatar???