Natalee Case Discussion #734 2/21 - 2/24/08

[Observer]

I'll tell you what..If I see the Mom again tommorow I will give her a big hug just from you. She is such a sweet lady and loved to show off her son in pics to me. They came in a big group. Aunts,Brothers,Sisters and Mom and Dad of course. All great people and it was a honor to meet them.

OH THANK YOU OB!  I would appreciate that so much!   Let her know I left a comment on the website and will pray for them..       I hope they will join us here!

You all stay safe and warm tomorrow.  Looking forward to pics, audio and video!

Thanks Dihannah1..She will appreciate that very much I assure you! I do hope they can tell there story here at SM also.

[Dihannah1]

ACTUAL VIDEO FROM THE BOSTON TRAVEL SHOW:

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=bVUQ3dSzuSQ

GREAT VIDEO!

Awesome video!   Can't wait to see alot more tomorrow!  Thanks Kath and monkeys in Boston!  Keep the heat up there! 

[Destiny]

But...according to the gods of the Aruban Judicial system...all of this is moot anyway...remember Frankensloot was just telling more lies...I HATE this Bull$hit!   Come on TRUTH....we are waiting...waiting...still waiting...

Lies have always gotten Joran off. If you'll recall one of the judges, Smid I believe, made the comment that Joran lies so much it is hard to find the truth. So what do they do? They give him an unconditional release.

This is the fallacy of the Dutch system. There have no teeth, there is no punishment. They are a bunch of pansies.

Amen Dayhiker!

Joran screwed up Hans Mos' best laid plans. Hans thought he'd sucessfully gotten rid of the case by making one last valiant public relations stab at getting him in jail. Then Joran comes along and gets caught confessing.

To make matters worse for Hans, by confessing Joran also exposes the cover-up. They never wanted to touch the cover-up and wouldn't have to as long as Joran got off. Now they've got their titties caught in the ringer. Not only do they have to explain Joran's confession away, they have an obvious cover-up they aren't doing anything about.

Hans is no better than any that have come before him, nor is Dop Kruimel. They have all achieved the same results. Nothing.  They can't even get Joran in jail with a confession. IMHO they are all worthless.

Ya know...it only makes me wonder more...what kind of insidious EVIL feels the need to protect, and cover for one slimy creep kid...or was this the snowball that got away, and everyone up to the tip-top of the system is just caught up in the avalanche now...out of control...hoping to land on their feet, and grabbing everyone near them, taking them down with them too....

I think they have an inbred fear of fighting for justice. I really think they are weak minded. Look at those statements by Hans and Dop, they are apologetic to Joran. Screw that!

Yes DH...I totally agree with you...they do have *ingrained* fear...but where does this *fear* originate...usually fear that strong, in a region that has a long distant past, of ritual based religion...that kind of fear is usually based on superstition...such as Santaria as an example...about 2 years ago, in some of my research of the ritual based beliefs of the original settlers of Aruba and surrounding Islands...brought with them from European countries...and the slave trade from other countries, I found it very interesting that some of the simple items found in use by the Local Real Arubans...such as certain colors...scarves...to ward off danger...to invoke protection...are used on a daily basis in the common Folk....the same as here is USA...throw salt over your left shoulder to ward off evil...

The more I wonder about all these things...the more it drives me to delve more into the Shango threads....The Lions Den....It was the Shango threads that drove me to my research in the first place.....blah blah blah....just put me on ignore

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/02/23/scared-monkeys-at-the-boston-travel-show-reminding-aruba-and-all-jurice-for-natalee-holloway-part-i/

Scared Monkeys at the Boston Travel Show Reminding Aruba and All … Justice for Natalee Holloway (Part I)

[Dihannah1]

I'll tell you what..If I see the Mom again tommorow I will give her a big hug just from you. She is such a sweet lady and loved to show off her son in pics to me. They came in a big group. Aunts,Brothers,Sisters and Mom and Dad of course. All great people and it was a honor to meet them.

OH THANK YOU OB!  I would appreciate that so much!   Let her know I left a comment on the website and will pray for them..       I hope they will join us here!

You all stay safe and warm tomorrow.  Looking forward to pics, audio and video!

Thanks Dihannah1..She will appreciate that very much I assure you! I do hope they can tell there story here at SM also.

I know how you feel.  I met parents of missing kids, when TES was here and what an honor, each of them sharing there story.  It truly changed my outlook on life.   Just remind them, there ARE strenght in numbers!  Were here for 'em!   Thanks so much for all your doing in Boston and all the other monkeys!  You all Rock!

[Destiny]

Here is the story from Nolan Webster family, whom Hotshot mentioned, and another group also at the Boston travel show.   I had to post it because it is yet again, another story for the lack of value of another human life!  This one in Mexico....   It's appalling!

“THE TRAGIC DEATH OF NOLAN WEBSTER”


On January 6, 2007 our 22-year-old son Nolan L. Webster and his girlfriend flew to Cancun Mexico for a one-week dream vacation at the Oasis Hotel. This trip was purchased through Apple Vacations and was a college graduation gift to Nolan from his father and me.  Nolan graduated from the University of Massachusetts just 3 weeks prior to his senseless and untimely death. On Sunday, January 7th, 2007 less than 30 hours after his arrival at the Oasis Hotel, Nolan was dead. He was pulled from the 4 1/2 foot deep hotel pool alive but unconscious. This tragedy took place in the middle of the afternoon with a resort full of guests.  Nolan’s death is not only horrific, but also an unimaginable loss of a very special individual. We have since learned that Nolan is not the only U.S. victim that has died at this resort.


The Oasis Hotel prides itself on having the largest swimming pool in Cancun. Perhaps it is their ploy to lure unsuspecting tourists to a pool that obviously does not comply with safety standards. The lack of safety and disregard for security are appalling as well as outrageous.  What truly remains “Beyond Your Expectations” is the fact that hotel employees’ did not know CPR---this fact alone is reprehensible.  There are signs at the pool indicating that lifeguards were present and on duty but they were not present at the time that Nolan was in the pool.


Our family has been contacted by a number of guests that witnessed the tragic events.  Every one of these guests has noted serious concerns about the lack of emergency steps taken by the Oasis Hotel management to prevent Nolan’s death. Two guests immediately took Nolan out of the pool and within minutes another guest who is a trauma room nurse came to assist.  He (nurse) shared the events as they unfolded and the alarming fact that there was no sense of urgency to the medical emergency.  Imagine a trained professional from Canada initiated life saving efforts while resort officials did nothing.  He had to ask the resort to call for an ambulance. It took approximately 10 minutes for resort personnel to even confirm that an ambulance was on the way. The ambulance arrived at the hotel 30 minutes from the time Nolan was taken out of the pool.  When the alleged  “hotel doctor” finally arrived at the scene he REFUSED to treat Nolan. The nurse was told to “leave him alone, he is just drunk”. Nolan was taking breaths at the time.  His color was progressively becoming mottled and blue.  The nurse, in an effort to save Nolan’s life, attempted to take the ambu bag and emergency kit from the “hotel doctor” since the doctor seemingly had no intention of using it.


The doctor snatched the ambu bag from the nurse and refused to allow the nurse to treat Nolan.  The nurse pleaded with the hotel doctor to give Nolan some oxygen but the doctor did not take any action to sustain Nolan’s life.  He was forced away from our son by hotel security. When the ambulance arrived they put a blanket over Nolan and pronounced him dead.  At no time did anyone from the hotel or ambulance crew provide oxygen or attempt to perform any life saving techniques.  After Nolan was declared “DEAD” his body was left beside the pool for over 4 hours.


Nolan’s girlfriend called us crying hysterically and telling us “I think Nolan’s dead”!  At the time of Nolan’s accident she was in the hotel room.  She received a phone call in her room and was told by resort officials to go to the pool.  Once she arrived and saw Nolan she was picked up by hotel security and carried away. This phone call was the only one we ever received from anyone.  Imagine trying to make sense of what you were just told. We were and still are in shock.  We cannot comprehend that this is the way the Oasis Resort and Apple Vacations think such tragedies should be handled.  Avoidance, no communication with family ,and a cavalier attitude, all of which project a lack of value for life.


This type of disregard for life is unacceptable and cannot and should not be tolerated by the Mexican or U.S. tourism industries.  Inhumane behavior must have consequences.  It is imperative that the U.S. State Department expose resorts and tour companies responsible for causing life-devastation. These same resorts must be held accountable for causing the deaths of innocent U.S. citizens while on vacation.


U.S. citizens have the right to be informed as to the lack of regard for safety, security, and life that exists in the Riviera Maya area.  We know that reporting laws exist for Americans who die from non-natural causes abroad but the reporting is not detailed and the U.S. State Department is not in compliance with the entirety of the law.  Any American contemplating traveling to Mexico’s Riviera Maya, including Cancun, must be informed of the unimaginable dangers that exist. Our goal is to provide honest information so that no other family will ever have to live with such profound sadness and loss.


The Family of Nolan L. Webster

Dihannah...Thanks for posting this Sweetums...I know that Nolan's Family will feel the warmth and caring, they so need, here in the cage....

[Dihannah1]

*******,  speaking of TES in Ohio,  Marlee was with me and she is supposed to be getting in touch with me!

Tell her to check email or call me~!  Thanks

[crazybabyborg]

ACTUAL VIDEO FROM THE BOSTON TRAVEL SHOW:

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=bVUQ3dSzuSQ

GREAT VIDEO!

Awesome video!   Can't wait to see alot more tomorrow!  Thanks Kath and monkeys in Boston!  Keep the heat up there! 

Hats Off to all the monkeys at the trade show! I've been reading the accounts, and looking at the pics..........Wow! The signs are GREAT! I'm glad to see the video; it gives you a real feel for it! For those of us who can't be there, you guys are in our hearts and you're doing a fabulous job!

[Observer]

GIVE EVERYONE IN BOSTON A BIG MONKEY HUG, *******!!! YOU GUYS AND GALS ARE THE BEST!!!! 

Thanks Dayhiker! We will be back tommorow as we ran off another 600 flyers. We wouldn't be "standing with the girl" if we let Natalee's voice go unheard in Boston! This is American and not Aruba and I don't give a damn how much Aruba spent for being a major sponsor at this show. I know the girls feel the same and are with me for round 2 

You folks are on a roll! Thank you for your wonderful support for Natalee. If you run into Rob Smith tell that dickhead we know where they were throwing those millions of dollars and it wasn't trying to solve the case. It was all on PR to trash Natalee and her family.

Tell that dickhead we are well aware that Antonio Carlo sits on the board of AHATA and know very well that he is Paulus van der Sloot's business partner and Joran's lawyer.

Thanks for your support Dayhiker! We appreciate it greatly!

Rob is well aware that we are aware and it wasn't the time or the place to discuss it. I don't think he has any intentions of discussing any of that with me anyways. By the look on his face he was watching closely to see how security would handle us and was hoping we would be thrown out I am sure. We had a short good conversation until the lady next to him had to open her mouth about not handing out literature which I had no intentions of doing inside. I think I was warned at least 6 more times after that. Got pretty annoying but I know that they were all over the security to be on us as they pay the big bucks for that show and are the big sponsor.

[Dayhiker]

I think they have an inbred fear of fighting for justice. I really think they are weak minded. Look at those statements by Hans and Dop, they are apologetic to Joran. Screw that!

Yes DH...I totally agree with you...they do have *ingrained* fear...but where does this *fear* originate...usually fear that strong, in a region that has a long distant past, of ritual based religion...that kind of fear is usually based on superstition...such as Santaria as an example...about 2 years ago, in some of my research of the ritual based beliefs of the original settlers of Aruba and surrounding Islands...brought with them from European countries...and the slave trade from other countries, I found it very interesting that some of the simple items found in use by the Local Real Arubans...such as certain colors...scarves...to ward off danger...to invoke protection...are used on a daily basis in the common Folk....the same as here is USA...throw salt over your left shoulder to ward off evil...

The more I wonder about all these things...the more it drives me to delve more into the Shango threads....The Lions Den....It was the Shango threads that drove me to my research in the first place.....blah blah blah....just put me on ignore

There is a lot of fear on that island, not just by the commoners who are afraid they could get deported or worse a Columbian necktie. Drugs permeate the island, they are sold on the street in the open. That is the money that rules Aruba. It is drug and Mafia money. The casinos are a front for laundering the drug money. Drugs are what makes Aruba go round. I think Paulus is connected to this money as are the highest officials, law enforcement and judges. By being on the tale sotospeak they have much to fear if they say too much or cross the wrong person. Tell me, out of all the gazillion lawyers in this country why would Paulus choose the top Mafia lawyer in the U.S. to represent his son?

[Observer]

*******,  speaking of TES in Ohio,  Marlee was with me and she is supposed to be getting in touch with me!

Tell her to check email or call me~!  Thanks

We didn't chat much today but I will see her in 11 hours and will relay your message. Thanks!

Klaas: Nice job on the videos

[Destiny]

ACTUAL VIDEO FROM THE BOSTON TRAVEL SHOW:

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=bVUQ3dSzuSQ

GREAT VIDEO!

Awesome video!   Can't wait to see alot more tomorrow!  Thanks Kath and monkeys in Boston!  Keep the heat up there! 

Woooooo-Hooooooo on Video....GREAT WORK my Monkey Heroes!!!

[Dihannah1]

Destiny,  that is so true.  That is why I'm so proud to be Monkey....   So many missing and injustices,  so few of us to console.  But I know, we can do our best and be there for them all!   Just as Beth is trying to do.   We are her extension and I believe when Natalee is brought home and justice is served, we will be there for the next one who needs us  (God forbid, one of our own).  It's in our blood and what has brought us all together!

[Destiny]

I think they have an inbred fear of fighting for justice. I really think they are weak minded. Look at those statements by Hans and Dop, they are apologetic to Joran. Screw that!

Yes DH...I totally agree with you...they do have *ingrained* fear...but where does this *fear* originate...usually fear that strong, in a region that has a long distant past, of ritual based religion...that kind of fear is usually based on superstition...such as Santaria as an example...about 2 years ago, in some of my research of the ritual based beliefs of the original settlers of Aruba and surrounding Islands...brought with them from European countries...and the slave trade from other countries, I found it very interesting that some of the simple items found in use by the Local Real Arubans...such as certain colors...scarves...to ward off danger...to invoke protection...are used on a daily basis in the common Folk....the same as here is USA...throw salt over your left shoulder to ward off evil...

The more I wonder about all these things...the more it drives me to delve more into the Shango threads....The Lions Den....It was the Shango threads that drove me to my research in the first place.....blah blah blah....just put me on ignore

There is a lot of fear on that island, not just by the commoners who are afraid they could get deported or worse a Columbian necktie. Drugs permeate the island, they are sold on the street in the open. That is the money that rules Aruba. It is drug and Mafia money. The casinos are a front for laundering the drug money. Drugs are what makes Aruba go round. I think Paulus is connected to this money as are the highest officials, law enforcement and judges. By being on the tale sotospeak they have much to fear if they say too much or cross the wrong person. Tell me, out of all the gazillion lawyers in this country why would Paulus choose the top Mafia lawyer in the U.S. to represent his son?

Really quite simple....because he has DIRTY HANDS...DH...I really appreciate your insightful posts....

[Dayhiker]

Thanks for your support Dayhiker! We appreciate it greatly!

Rob is well aware that we are aware and it wasn't the time or the place to discuss it. I don't think he has any intentions of discussing any of that with me anyways. By the look on his face he was watching closely to see how security would handle us and was hoping we would be thrown out I am sure. We had a short good conversation until the lady next to him had to open her mouth about not handing out literature which I had no intentions of doing inside. I think I was warned at least 6 more times after that. Got pretty annoying but I know that they were all over the security to be on us as they pay the big bucks for that show and are the big sponsor.

******* your and the other great Monkeys' presence puts a tremendous amount of pressure on them. You good people with your big hearts and shoestring budget are probably costing them more money than they're making on this show!

One day they'll realize there's a simple solution to this. Throw their perps in prison. They know damn well who they are. Until then THEY WILL BE BOYCOTTED!

[jackb]

Wasn't Geoffrey the 5th person arrested?

Sorry if this has been asked.....

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

[Dayhiker]

There is a lot of fear on that island, not just by the commoners who are afraid they could get deported or worse a Columbian necktie. Drugs permeate the island, they are sold on the street in the open. That is the money that rules Aruba. It is drug and Mafia money. The casinos are a front for laundering the drug money. Drugs are what makes Aruba go round. I think Paulus is connected to this money as are the highest officials, law enforcement and judges. By being on the tale sotospeak they have much to fear if they say too much or cross the wrong person. Tell me, out of all the gazillion lawyers in this country why would Paulus choose the top Mafia lawyer in the U.S. to represent his son?

Really quite simple....because he has DIRTY HANDS...DH...I really appreciate your insightful posts....

Backatchee Destiny, and I thoroughly enjoy reading your conversations with the paranoid cops on Aruba. Maybe one day the good honest people on the island will run the country and they won't get themselves in the bind their corrupt leaders have put them in today.

[jackb]

Wasn't Geoffrey the 5th person arrested?

Sorry if this has been asked.....

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

Sister is a police officer. Their house was listed for sale as of 12/14/2007.(Yellow…just like the Gottenbos)

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

CROMVOIRT, Wilhemus “Willem” Bernadus Henricus Papaya van - owner & operator of VCB Security. Father of Geoffrey van Cromvoirt. There is some question as to whether the Cromvoirt’s moved to the Netherlands. Resided at 14D, Paradera, Aruba.

[Destiny]

Destiny,  that is so true.  That is why I'm so proud to be Monkey....   So many missing and injustices,  so few of us to console.  But I know, we can do our best and be there for them all!   Just as Beth is trying to do.   We are her extension and I believe when Natalee is brought home and justice is served, we will be there for the next one who needs us  (God forbid, one of our own).  It's in our blood and what has brought us all together!

Yep Dihannah...Ya just never know when the Almighty will slap a pair of wings on ya...they either fit...fall off...or we *grow* into them...I'm in the growing into them stage LOL...Destiny

[private eye]

I met with both of Nolans parents and brother and really is a sad story. Such a good looking kid and the dad had to go to mexico and retrieve him in a box. They threw a towell over this kid and he sat like that for four hours. I think he even said he was still breathing
Really heartbreaking!!!!

I hope Red will invite them to SM Radio as they have a story to tell. I also hope to see them again tommorow as they are great people.

I don't understand how or why the nurse quit working on him, nor do I understand why the people there when the doctor refused did not simply take the equipment from the doctor. But the sad truth is that most of those vacation spots simply have poor health care systems, and I am not sure if there was any help other than the nurse available to treat him. But people need to stop being so passive in situations. It sounds as if one person, in a couple of cases prevented the help from being provided. Doctors should be respected until they show they are not deserving, and then to hell with them. There are a lot of wonderful docs here and abroad, but there are certainly some suspect doctors and you have to be prepared to be responsible for yours and your love ones health. Tough tough situations. Travel abroad, especially for even mid 20's, is dangerous due to a lot of reasons, including a lack of simple health care.

I agree PI. That's why I questioned the nurse.   If it were me and I saw somebody dying in front of my eyes and the Dr. had the equip to help save him, I would have grabbed it, telling them to F Off!  My conciense, couldn't let me sit back and do nothing at all costs to save somebody.  So heartbreaking for this family, knowing, he COULD have easily survived this!

I think that possibly being in a different country must inhibit the response, understandably. I can't imagine people here, responding as the people in those stories did. But they are heartbreaking stories because of the age of the victims, the fact that the event was a celebration and death was the last thing expected, and the helplessness and insensitive treatment that they received after the fact. My kids went to Cancun for graduation, but my wife went with each of them, as did probably 20 more parents. Some of these parents, and I won't mention which ones, hung right there with the kids, so they had as much protection as a drunk adoring parent can provide:) but I was really uncomfortable with the concept, not for any certain reason, but just in general.