Natalee Case Discussion #734 2/21 - 2/24/08

[Red]

BOSTON MONKEYS .... GREAT JOB.

I certainly noticed the Papa Van der Sloot sweat on the faces of the people at the travel show when you were video taping. LOL. The nervous look on Smith's face was priceless.

GREAT!!!

Must suck Aruba that we have freedom of speech and freedom of the right to assemble and protest in America, don't it.

How much did you spend on this marketing effort?

I bet you don't want to know how much our brave protest Monkeys spent.

[Destiny]

Wasn't Geoffrey the 5th person arrested?

Sorry if this has been asked.....

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

Sister is a police officer. Their house was listed for sale as of 12/14/2007.(Yellow…just like the Gottenbos)

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

CROMVOIRT, Wilhemus “Willem” Bernadus Henricus Papaya van - owner & operator of VCB Security. Father of Geoffrey van Cromvoirt. There is some question as to whether the Cromvoirt’s moved to the Netherlands. Resided at 14D, Paradera, Aruba.

Talk about the fox quarding the hen house...this is outrageous!!!  How many videos, that are so very important to solving this case, and bringing closure to many fine Folks...how many have been destroyed...or set aside as blackmail....HOW MANY ARUBA????

[Dihannah1]

I met with both of Nolans parents and brother and really is a sad story. Such a good looking kid and the dad had to go to mexico and retrieve him in a box. They threw a towell over this kid and he sat like that for four hours. I think he even said he was still breathing
Really heartbreaking!!!!

I hope Red will invite them to SM Radio as they have a story to tell. I also hope to see them again tommorow as they are great people.

I don't understand how or why the nurse quit working on him, nor do I understand why the people there when the doctor refused did not simply take the equipment from the doctor. But the sad truth is that most of those vacation spots simply have poor health care systems, and I am not sure if there was any help other than the nurse available to treat him. But people need to stop being so passive in situations. It sounds as if one person, in a couple of cases prevented the help from being provided. Doctors should be respected until they show they are not deserving, and then to hell with them. There are a lot of wonderful docs here and abroad, but there are certainly some suspect doctors and you have to be prepared to be responsible for yours and your love ones health. Tough tough situations. Travel abroad, especially for even mid 20's, is dangerous due to a lot of reasons, including a lack of simple health care.

I agree PI. That's why I questioned the nurse.   If it were me and I saw somebody dying in front of my eyes and the Dr. had the equip to help save him, I would have grabbed it, telling them to F Off!  My conciense, couldn't let me sit back and do nothing at all costs to save somebody.  So heartbreaking for this family, knowing, he COULD have easily survived this!

I think that possibly being in a different country must inhibit the response, understandably. I can't imagine people here, responding as the people in those stories did. But they are heartbreaking stories because of the age of the victims, the fact that the event was a celebration and death was the last thing expected, and the helplessness and insensitive treatment that they received after the fact. My kids went to Cancun for graduation, but my wife went with each of them, as did probably 20 more parents. Some of these parents, and I won't mention which ones, hung right there with the kids, so they had as much protection as a drunk adoring parent can provide:) but I was really uncomfortable with the concept, not for any certain reason, but just in general.
[/quot

My daughter was in drill team, just like Natalee.  They got the opportunity to dance on a Carnival Cruise to the Bahamas.  Many parents and dance instructors went.  I also took my youngest.   But there were also other parents, including one of the dance instructors who did the same thing as you mentioned, drinking too.   I had fun, but was all over my girls the entire trip.  Oldest was no angel, but I struggled hard to get the funds to go, so I could be there and up there butt as much as possible.  They were in my sight the entire day we were docked in the Bahamas.  And that was before I knew of the dangers I know now.

[Dihannah1]

BOSTON MONKEYS .... GREAT JOB.

I certainly noticed the Papa Van der Sloot sweat on the faces of the people at the travel show when you were video taping. LOL. The nervous look on Smith's face was priceless.

GREAT!!!

Must suck Aruba that we have freedom of speech and freedom of the right to assemble and protest in America, don't it.

How much did you spend on this marketing effort?

I bet you don't want to know how much our brave protest Monkeys spent.

TRUE THAT Red!

[klaasend]

[Dihannah1]

Well it's time to go for the night.   Monkey Bunkey is calling.   Great job Boston Monkeys and all the Scared Monkeys for doin' what needs to be done!  Thanks Red for giving us the platform and all you do too!

Good night and sweet dreams!

[Lala'sMom]

Would some brilliant monkey locate the link to all the info we have on Jorge Pasquera?  Is it in a special place or scattered everywhere? TIA

[Destiny]

Well it's time to go for the night.   Monkey Bunkey is calling.   Great job Boston Monkeys and all the Scared Monkeys for doin' what needs to be done!  Thanks Red for giving us the platform and all you do too!

Good night and sweet dreams!

Sweet Dreams....Sweet Pea

[Tamikosmom]

Maybe I missed this last night (I was distracted about the time they talked about this)........ was the trap they found suspected of being a "plant" or merell a just a lost one by fishermen? (I just asked this on the OE thread as well)

The trap they found looked way larger than I would expect.  It looks like something lost by a ship a long time ago, not a small fisherman boat as the trap was quite large.  Did not look like it was planted to me.

Klaas

When hubby (a former Northern B.C. West Coast commercial fisherman) and I were watching a recorded Dateline this morning ... he concurred with your impression.

The size of that trap when compared to the size of the divers ... implied to him that ... this trap was not one that would be easily stored in the Fisherman's Hut or ... could easily be transported in a small boat.

Nevertheless ... I give the crew of the Persistence the benefit of the doubt that a there was a foundation of accumulated knowledge that they were deriving from in their sincere belief that this trap could be the one which Natalee Holloway was placed in and ... taken out to sea.

Janet

The trap that they showed being gone from the fishermens hut was pretty large. I assumed they carried it out in the water to the boat, had a rope on it, tied it to the side of the boat with the trap under the water and motored it out to where they dropped it. That way no one would have noticed it as they motored out, and it is too large and heavy with a body in it to set inside a boat, plus that prevented as much as possible any DNA getting in the boat. There was no need of lifting the trap all the way into the boat.

Thank you PI.

Janet

I had not seen the clip of Dateline showing the cage, and what I was expecting to see looked NOTHING like that one. That one was at least 6 ft wide and not very tall. I was expecting basically a square one 2x2 or 3x3. But it is easy to sit here and say that after the fact:)

[Tamikosmom]

I had better call it a night ... I posted prior to typing a message.

 

Anyways ...

PI ... I was taken back when I saw the size of the cage ... the divers were dwarfed beside it.  Maybe the perception was off ... considering the it was an underwater video.

Good Night Monkeys

Janet

[Hotshot]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

[private eye]

I met with both of Nolans parents and brother and really is a sad story. Such a good looking kid and the dad had to go to mexico and retrieve him in a box. They threw a towell over this kid and he sat like that for four hours. I think he even said he was still breathing
Really heartbreaking!!!!

I hope Red will invite them to SM Radio as they have a story to tell. I also hope to see them again tommorow as they are great people.

I don't understand how or why the nurse quit working on him, nor do I understand why the people there when the doctor refused did not simply take the equipment from the doctor. But the sad truth is that most of those vacation spots simply have poor health care systems, and I am not sure if there was any help other than the nurse available to treat him. But people need to stop being so passive in situations. It sounds as if one person, in a couple of cases prevented the help from being provided. Doctors should be respected until they show they are not deserving, and then to hell with them. There are a lot of wonderful docs here and abroad, but there are certainly some suspect doctors and you have to be prepared to be responsible for yours and your love ones health. Tough tough situations. Travel abroad, especially for even mid 20's, is dangerous due to a lot of reasons, including a lack of simple health care.

I agree PI. That's why I questioned the nurse.   If it were me and I saw somebody dying in front of my eyes and the Dr. had the equip to help save him, I would have grabbed it, telling them to F Off!  My conciense, couldn't let me sit back and do nothing at all costs to save somebody.  So heartbreaking for this family, knowing, he COULD have easily survived this!

I think that possibly being in a different country must inhibit the response, understandably. I can't imagine people here, responding as the people in those stories did. But they are heartbreaking stories because of the age of the victims, the fact that the event was a celebration and death was the last thing expected, and the helplessness and insensitive treatment that they received after the fact. My kids went to Cancun for graduation, but my wife went with each of them, as did probably 20 more parents. Some of these parents, and I won't mention which ones, hung right there with the kids, so they had as much protection as a drunk adoring parent can provide:) but I was really uncomfortable with the concept, not for any certain reason, but just in general.
[/quot

My daughter was in drill team, just like Natalee.  They got the opportunity to dance on a Carnival Cruise to the Bahamas.  Many parents and dance instructors went.  I also took my youngest.   But there were also other parents, including one of the dance instructors who did the same thing as you mentioned, drinking too.   I had fun, but was all over my girls the entire trip.  Oldest was no angel, but I struggled hard to get the funds to go, so I could be there and up there butt as much as possible.  They were in my sight the entire day we were docked in the Bahamas.  And that was before I knew of the dangers I know now.

But for the grace of God, no matter how much you try, we lose them. You have to give them some rope, and sometimes stuff happens on short ropes, even with them by your side, on the way to school, or on a trip such as the one Natalee went on. Natalee had every right to feel safe, Joran appeared to be a boy from a good family, and her friends really tried to stay together. Hers was a perfect storm where she freakishly got away from everyone, or by design of a monster, and then something bad happened, again freakishly. Natalee was extremely healthy and strong and I never would have predicted her dying no matter how much she took or what she took. It is amazing how much kids can partake without dying. Of course we have no idea what else happened to her or what all she was given voluntarily and unknowingly, just in total. I don't think it is a reflection of parenting, I think it is God's fate and or luck or no luck. It will be my worst fear to the day I die that I will get that call, because I don't know how in the world the parents handle it as well as they do.

[casa]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

Hotshot, just wondering what your duties were while in Boston today and what the people at the Aruban booth had to say as you talked to them today.

[klaasend]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

Hotshot, just wondering what your duties were while in Boston today and what the people at the Aruban booth had to say as you talked to them today.

Hi Casa - there is a sticky thread right below this thread for the Boston Travel show.  They have explained alot more there. 

[Observer]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

Hotshot, just wondering what your duties were while in Boston today and what the people at the Aruban booth had to say as you talked to them today.

Not Hotshot,but I wanted to tell you last year we had long discussions with the Arubans at the booth. This year isn't the same as we are clearly being targeted. I wrote a pretty long post about it in 2007. We clearly did a lot of damage last year and they are applying major heat on this years staff in Boston. They tried there best to kick us out this year and it didn't work. We are even going back tommorow.

[Red]

If ya haven't checked out the FP yet,
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/02/23/scared-monkeys-at-the-boston-travel-show-reminding-aruba-and-all-justice-for-natalee-holloway-part-i/

Scared Monkeys and those that care about the safety of travelers to Aruba and providing justice to those who have crimes committed against them will always be present and speak the truth. The following is from the Aruban tourism web page. That in red italics is closer to the truth interpretation.


We decided to rework the Aruban tourism mission statemnet to more reflect what they really mean, rather than the BS they provide the public.

Bonbini!

It means welcome. And here, you truly are. (It means enter at your own risk. And here, if you have a crime committed against you, Aruba is certain to cover it up and provide you with no justice.)

You’re welcome to dream. (You are welcome to spend your hard earned money.) Of endless sun and scenery. (Of actually leaving Aruba alive in the same manner you entered it). Of breathtaking blues and crystal clear ocean and white, sandy beaches. (Of having your body disposed of at sea or left on the beach at the Fisherman’s Huts). You’re welcome to plan the ideal family vacation or wedding or honeymoon or meeting or simple escape to a colorful world away from home. (If you are foolish enough to spend your hard earned money of a vacation in Aruba, we are certain to promise you the world and say no problem only to do nothing for you if “anything bad happens.”) You’re welcome to explore. (Take your own chances.) To make everything that’s ours yours. To find the perfect something, or nothing, to do. (Buyer beware … you to can have “Some thing bad happen”.)

Welcome to Aruba. This is our home. And we want to share it with you. (Enter at your own risk, we barely provide justice for our own citizens, for tourists we are certain to cover up and crime and never investigate, prosecute or provide justice for you.)

[Red]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

Hotshot, just wondering what your duties were while in Boston today and what the people at the Aruban booth had to say as you talked to them today.

Not Hotshot but I want to tell you last year we had long discussions with the Arubans at the booth. This year isn't the same as we are clearly being targeted. I wrote a pretty long post about it in 2007. We clearly did a lot of damage last year and they are applying major heat on this years staff in Boston. They tried there best to kick us out this year and it didn't work. We are even going back tommorow.

They have not quite grasped the "FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND EXPRESSION" concept in Aruba.

Although they are learning the hard way

               

[Hotshot]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

Hotshot, just wondering what your duties were while in Boston today and what the people at the Aruban booth had to say as you talked to them today.

Casa, my duties were all over the place today.  From ansering the phone calls, to filming some people before they knew who I was....  My daughter came down sick, so I dealt with her, and then the police.  Lets see, Mr. Port Authority chased me around all day too, was too funny.  He bought me coffee and sat with me just to have me stay away from the aruba booth.  I also stood out there handing out flyers and such, talked to people about the case.  There wasnt too much I didnt do, and there wasnt too much of that BIG place that I want.  

I want to Thank all of you for giving us the courage to be there this week-end.  Hugs to ALL

[casa]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

Excuse me for asking in the wrong place.  As Hotshot had posted here about the travel show I thought is was ok to ask here.

Hotshot, just wondering what your duties were while in Boston today and what the people at the Aruban booth had to say as you talked to them today.

Hi Casa - there is a sticky thread right below this thread for the Boston Travel show.  They have explained alot more there. 

[klaasend]

  I messed up the quote stack!

That makes it all that much more SWEETER!  Boycotting the main sponsor!      Can't wait for more pics, video, audio tomorrow. 

Cant wait to see you in NY

Excuse me for asking in the wrong place.  As Hotshot had posted here about the travel show I thought is was ok to ask here.

Hotshot, just wondering what your duties were while in Boston today and what the people at the Aruban booth had to say as you talked to them today.

Hi Casa - there is a sticky thread right below this thread for the Boston Travel show.  They have explained alot more there. 

It's no problem at all that you asked here.  I just wanted to make sure you knew where all the information was already posted.