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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #734 2/21 - 2/24/08  (Read 76554 times)
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caesu
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« Reply #200 on: February 22, 2008, 08:06:55 AM »

caesu

Thanks.  Is it Jorg's (can't find those two dots) job to assign the prosecutor to the case? 

i think that's right.

The Board of Procurators General is responsible for the policy and management of the Public Prosecution Service.

That keeps including in:
* Looking after an effective and efficient organisation
* Coordinating priorities in the prosecution
* Giving internal directives so that all officieren of justice as much as possible equal sentence requirements put in similar matter

Moreover the Board of Procurators General gives recommendations with respect to legislation which has with criminal action to do.

The Board of Procurators General has a consultation with the minister of justice or the Secretary-General as a rule monthly.


it says here. board of procureurs general.
but aruba has only one. so Nico Jörg is the board in itself.
for Rudy Croes a PG for aruba is an important issue.
the antilles has also one PG for the other 5 islands.
Rudy Croes wants his OM as independent as possible.

the PG is there to keep the distance from the minister of justice and the OM.
but Rudy Croes crosses the line way to often and interferes with the prosecution. this is a well known problem on aruba.
http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/article341437.ece/Innig_gescheiden_machten

article about Jörg is interesting:
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/Car20080124_Jorg-Aruba

he says it is not true that aruba is all corrupt.
but he also says the aruban OM / justice department doesn't do much to remove that suspicion.
OM is too much politically directed (meaning but not saying involvement justice minister Croes)
and the amount of government employees being prosecuted is alarming.

in my opinion Jörg is a good man after reading this and more.
only he can not get too much involved with the prosecution itself in detail. just the general effectiveness.
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caesu
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« Reply #201 on: February 22, 2008, 08:11:39 AM »

caesu

Is there an Attorney General position and is that different than how you describe Jorg's position??

Principal Government Officials
Governor General--Fredis J. Refunjol
Prime Minister--Nelson O. Oduber
Deputy Prime Minister--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Labor, Culture, Integration, Community Development & Sports--T.F. Ramon Lee
Minister of Finance & Economic Affairs--Nilo J.J. Swaen
Minister of General Affairs and Foreign Relations--Nelson O. Oduber
Minister of Social Affairs and Public Works--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Public Health and Environment--Candelario A.S.D. Wever
Minister of Justice--Hyacintho R. Croes
Minister of Tourism & Transportation--Edison Briesen
Minister Plenipotentiary to The Hague--F. Walfrido Croes
Minister Plenipotentiary to Washington, DC--vacant
President, Bank of Aruba--Rob Henriquez
Attorney General--Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/22491.htm

that's is not update i guess.
current but acting (temporaly) PG is Nico Jörg

and attorney general is the name the usa uses for this, but this is in my opinion not entirely correct.
mukasey in washington we dutch would call a justice minister.
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Buckeye
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« Reply #202 on: February 22, 2008, 08:24:04 AM »

Thanks again caesu.
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« Reply #203 on: February 22, 2008, 08:31:42 AM »

Interesting post at BFN regarding the Kalpo/Dr. Phil suit.  From gigi1959 :

Thanks again Jane.  As I posted previously, it was a huge error for the plaintiffs not to produce the electronic communications requested and to give their Aruban attorney one day to respond to their letter requesting documents--both areas which the defendants are using as a basis for their latest  motions.  The plaintiffs' attorney's declaration re the electronic communications non-production isn't really responsive on the issue.  The law is abundantly clear on this--all electronic communications must be preserved and produced if requested; if you don't know  how to access it then you have to  hire someone who does know how to do it; if you claim the costs of doing so are prohibitive--(a claim I don't see has been raised--yet) you have to have  a hearing on that and possibly the court will apportion the costs. If not, tough luck.  The attorney's declaration states that they have offered to have the defendants examine the computers after the protocol for doing so has been established.  That is par for the course----after  the attorneys have had an opportunity to review the electronic discovery produced by the plaintiffs.  It is very expensive to have a clone made of the hard drive of a computer and to have a forensic expert examine the contents of a computer.  My guess is that the plaintiffs are trying to shift the cost of their discovery burden to the defense.  Will the court grant the motion to terminate and dismiss the case? I don't know because I'm not familiar with this Judge.  However, in as far as their is an offer on the table for the defense to examine the computers--which will allow them to argue they are not hiding the ball so to speak, , my guess is that he will give them one more shot to comply with his orders. BTW, did you know that if the Kalpoes' lawsuit is dismissed, either voluntarily or by the court, or if they lose the case, they will be responsible for paying the defendants' statutory costs to date--which by now should be extensive.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6860.135


I don't understand how you file for damages yet show no loss.  His mental health care costs are zero (he has gov't care), he is still working and can't seem to figure out when and if he missed work and he refuses to claim costs regarding attorney fees.  I just don't get it. Somebody better tell these two that California is not Aruba.  I don't get it.
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« Reply #204 on: February 22, 2008, 08:56:36 AM »



Date Rape Coaster don't go to Aruba without it!
 
Each coaster contains two test areas that incorporate patented DrinkSafe technology that reacts with a visible color change if a test area come in contact with a drink spiked with major date rape drugs like GHB and Ketamine.
 
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« Reply #205 on: February 22, 2008, 08:58:49 AM »

Hi everyone and thanks Klaasend! 

Something is extremely wrong with the people in charge in the Netherlands.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1974167/posts

She should have shot him!
I am especially horrified this part "The woman has stated that the collision was an accident. The Public Prosecutor's Office (OM) initially concluded this as well, but later decided to prosecute her after all."


Sounds very familiar. They have a hard time discerning between victim and criminal and rarely get it right.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? 

This woman deserves a medal for public service.  Did you read where the dead criminal had been in court that very day for the same offense?  Didn't learn his lesson in court apparently because he ran right out and repeated his crime.  She was defending her personal life and liberty and she's the one they want to prosecute? 

FN Idiots. 


For those who think dutch law is weird here is another one:

Misdadiger kan pistool declareren
 
BREDA - Criminelen kunnen de kosten van het plegen van een misdrijf aftrekken van de winst die het strafbaar feit oplevert.

Zo kreeg een 46-jarige man uit Roermond deze week van de rechtbank een vergoeding van 2000 euro voor het pistool dat hij had gebruikt om een bank in het Brabantse Chaam te overvallen. De verdachte werd veroordeeld tot een onvoorwaardelijke gevangenisstraf van vier jaar. Ook moet hij de buit van 6600 euro terugbetalen, maar de kosten voor de aanschaf van het wapen worden van dit bedrag afgetrokken. De man had tijdens de rechtszitting verklaard dat hij het pistool destijds voor ruim tweeduizend euro op de kop had getikt.

Kosten

Volgens directeur Gerard Sta van het Bureau Ontnemingen Openbaar Ministerie is het inderdaad mogelijk dat een crimineel kosten die zijn gemaakt voor het plegen van een strafbaar feit, in mindering kan brengen. "Het gaat om kosten die een directe relatie hebben met het strafbare feit. Kosten dus die een crimineel anders niet gemaakt zou hebben. Een tweede voorwaarde is dat het strafbare feit voltooid moet zijn", aldus Sta. De wet gaat er volgens Sta vanuit dat de financiële situatie van de bankovervaller na 'afrekening' met Justitie hetzelfde moet zijn als voor de overval. "De overvaller van de bank in Chaam moest dat wapen aanschaffen om die bank te kunnen beroven. Het klinkt misschien een beetje raar, maar zo is de wet."

Directeur Sta geeft nog een ander voorbeeld: "Als er een hennepplantage wordt opgerold kan de kweker aangeven welke onkosten hij heeft gemaakt." (Telegraaf)

Quick translation:
Criminals can declare the costs they make to commit a crime
A 46 year old man from Roermond received 2000 Euros from the court to pay for the gun he purchassed to commit a bank robbery. He was sentenced to 4 years in prison and has to repay the 6600 Euros he stole. The 2000 Euros he paid for the gun will be deducted from this amount.

According to the law if the criminal has made expenses to commit a crime and the crime has actually been committed, then he can declare his expenses. In the case of the bank robbery the criminal had to buy the gun otherwise he could not have robbed the bank.

Quote from the article: "It may sound a little funny but that is the law"

Weird world we live in

link to article:http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuws
bronnen%20internationaal/2005/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal.htm
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private eye
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« Reply #206 on: February 22, 2008, 09:02:14 AM »

caesu

Is there an Attorney General position and is that different than how you describe Jorg's position??

Principal Government Officials
Governor General--Fredis J. Refunjol
Prime Minister--Nelson O. Oduber
Deputy Prime Minister--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Labor, Culture, Integration, Community Development & Sports--T.F. Ramon Lee
Minister of Finance & Economic Affairs--Nilo J.J. Swaen
Minister of General Affairs and Foreign Relations--Nelson O. Oduber
Minister of Social Affairs and Public Works--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Public Health and Environment--Candelario A.S.D. Wever
Minister of Justice--Hyacintho R. Croes
Minister of Tourism & Transportation--Edison Briesen
Minister Plenipotentiary to The Hague--F. Walfrido Croes
Minister Plenipotentiary to Washington, DC--vacant
President, Bank of Aruba--Rob Henriquez
Attorney General--Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/22491.htm

that's is not update i guess.
current but acting (temporaly) PG is Nico Jörg

and attorney general is the name the usa uses for this, but this is in my opinion not entirely correct.
mukasey in washington we dutch would call a justice minister.

Isn't the attorney general our top law enforcement official? Would that not be the equivalent of Rudy Croes in Aruba, as minister of justice in Aruba?
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caesu
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« Reply #207 on: February 22, 2008, 09:06:45 AM »

Hi everyone and thanks Klaasend! 

Something is extremely wrong with the people in charge in the Netherlands.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1974167/posts

She should have shot him!
I am especially horrified this part "The woman has stated that the collision was an accident. The Public Prosecutor's Office (OM) initially concluded this as well, but later decided to prosecute her after all."


Sounds very familiar. They have a hard time discerning between victim and criminal and rarely get it right.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? 

This woman deserves a medal for public service.  Did you read where the dead criminal had been in court that very day for the same offense?  Didn't learn his lesson in court apparently because he ran right out and repeated his crime.  She was defending her personal life and liberty and she's the one they want to prosecute? 

FN Idiots. 


For those who think dutch law is weird here is another one:

Misdadiger kan pistool declareren
 
BREDA - Criminelen kunnen de kosten van het plegen van een misdrijf aftrekken van de winst die het strafbaar feit oplevert.

Zo kreeg een 46-jarige man uit Roermond deze week van de rechtbank een vergoeding van 2000 euro voor het pistool dat hij had gebruikt om een bank in het Brabantse Chaam te overvallen. De verdachte werd veroordeeld tot een onvoorwaardelijke gevangenisstraf van vier jaar. Ook moet hij de buit van 6600 euro terugbetalen, maar de kosten voor de aanschaf van het wapen worden van dit bedrag afgetrokken. De man had tijdens de rechtszitting verklaard dat hij het pistool destijds voor ruim tweeduizend euro op de kop had getikt.

Kosten

Volgens directeur Gerard Sta van het Bureau Ontnemingen Openbaar Ministerie is het inderdaad mogelijk dat een crimineel kosten die zijn gemaakt voor het plegen van een strafbaar feit, in mindering kan brengen. "Het gaat om kosten die een directe relatie hebben met het strafbare feit. Kosten dus die een crimineel anders niet gemaakt zou hebben. Een tweede voorwaarde is dat het strafbare feit voltooid moet zijn", aldus Sta. De wet gaat er volgens Sta vanuit dat de financiële situatie van de bankovervaller na 'afrekening' met Justitie hetzelfde moet zijn als voor de overval. "De overvaller van de bank in Chaam moest dat wapen aanschaffen om die bank te kunnen beroven. Het klinkt misschien een beetje raar, maar zo is de wet."

Directeur Sta geeft nog een ander voorbeeld: "Als er een hennepplantage wordt opgerold kan de kweker aangeven welke onkosten hij heeft gemaakt." (Telegraaf)

Quick translation:
Criminals can declare the costs they make to commit a crime
A 46 year old man from Roermond received 2000 Euros from the court to pay for the gun he purchassed to commit a bank robbery. He was sentenced to 4 years in prison and has to repay the 6600 Euros he stole. The 2000 Euros he paid for the gun will be deducted from this amount.

According to the law if the criminal has made expenses to commit a crime and the crime has actually been committed, then he can declare his expenses. In the case of the bank robbery the criminal had to buy the gun otherwise he could not have robbed the bank.

Quote from the article: "It may sound a little funny but that is the law"

Weird world we live in

link to article:http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuws
bronnen%20internationaal/2005/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal.htm

about that woman who drove over that mugger.
there is a lot more to that.
also the muslim community called a fatwa = death sentence.
she is now in hiding, moving around in disguise from house to house.
her lawyer explained things in a talk show yesterday.
really unbelievable. she has been suffering so much since.

and about that man who got a refund for his gun.
i didn't know that was possible.
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caesu
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« Reply #208 on: February 22, 2008, 09:15:22 AM »

caesu

Is there an Attorney General position and is that different than how you describe Jorg's position??

Principal Government Officials
Governor General--Fredis J. Refunjol
Prime Minister--Nelson O. Oduber
Deputy Prime Minister--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Labor, Culture, Integration, Community Development & Sports--T.F. Ramon Lee
Minister of Finance & Economic Affairs--Nilo J.J. Swaen
Minister of General Affairs and Foreign Relations--Nelson O. Oduber
Minister of Social Affairs and Public Works--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Public Health and Environment--Candelario A.S.D. Wever
Minister of Justice--Hyacintho R. Croes
Minister of Tourism & Transportation--Edison Briesen
Minister Plenipotentiary to The Hague--F. Walfrido Croes
Minister Plenipotentiary to Washington, DC--vacant
President, Bank of Aruba--Rob Henriquez
Attorney General--Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/22491.htm

that's is not update i guess.
current but acting (temporaly) PG is Nico Jörg

and attorney general is the name the usa uses for this, but this is in my opinion not entirely correct.
mukasey in washington we dutch would call a justice minister.

Isn't the attorney general our top law enforcement official? Would that not be the equivalent of Rudy Croes in Aruba, as minister of justice in Aruba?

yes, USA attorney general = Aruban justice minister

Aruban procureur general = don't know USA equivalent (maybe deputy attorney general or associate attorney general.

Nico Jörg was advocate general wich would be sollicitor general in the usa.
but Theresa Croes-Fernandes announced retirement beginning last year effective january 2008 but she went on early leave in may 2007 so Nico Jörg became acting procureur generaal.
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private eye
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« Reply #209 on: February 22, 2008, 10:00:46 AM »

caesu

Is there an Attorney General position and is that different than how you describe Jorg's position??

Principal Government Officials
Governor General--Fredis J. Refunjol
Prime Minister--Nelson O. Oduber
Deputy Prime Minister--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Labor, Culture, Integration, Community Development & Sports--T.F. Ramon Lee
Minister of Finance & Economic Affairs--Nilo J.J. Swaen
Minister of General Affairs and Foreign Relations--Nelson O. Oduber
Minister of Social Affairs and Public Works--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Public Health and Environment--Candelario A.S.D. Wever
Minister of Justice--Hyacintho R. Croes
Minister of Tourism & Transportation--Edison Briesen
Minister Plenipotentiary to The Hague--F. Walfrido Croes
Minister Plenipotentiary to Washington, DC--vacant
President, Bank of Aruba--Rob Henriquez
Attorney General--Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/22491.htm

that's is not update i guess.
current but acting (temporaly) PG is Nico Jörg

and attorney general is the name the usa uses for this, but this is in my opinion not entirely correct.
mukasey in washington we dutch would call a justice minister.

Isn't the attorney general our top law enforcement official? Would that not be the equivalent of Rudy Croes in Aruba, as minister of justice in Aruba?

yes, USA attorney general = Aruban justice minister

Aruban procureur general = don't know USA equivalent (maybe deputy attorney general or associate attorney general.

Nico Jörg was advocate general wich would be sollicitor general in the usa.
but Theresa Croes-Fernandes announced retirement beginning last year effective january 2008 but she went on early leave in may 2007 so Nico Jörg became acting procureur generaal.

Is it true that Rudy is NOT an attorney though?
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caesu
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« Reply #210 on: February 22, 2008, 10:07:45 AM »

caesu

Is there an Attorney General position and is that different than how you describe Jorg's position??

Principal Government Officials
Governor General--Fredis J. Refunjol
Prime Minister--Nelson O. Oduber
Deputy Prime Minister--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Labor, Culture, Integration, Community Development & Sports--T.F. Ramon Lee
Minister of Finance & Economic Affairs--Nilo J.J. Swaen
Minister of General Affairs and Foreign Relations--Nelson O. Oduber
Minister of Social Affairs and Public Works--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Public Health and Environment--Candelario A.S.D. Wever
Minister of Justice--Hyacintho R. Croes
Minister of Tourism & Transportation--Edison Briesen
Minister Plenipotentiary to The Hague--F. Walfrido Croes
Minister Plenipotentiary to Washington, DC--vacant
President, Bank of Aruba--Rob Henriquez
Attorney General--Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/22491.htm

that's is not update i guess.
current but acting (temporaly) PG is Nico Jörg

and attorney general is the name the usa uses for this, but this is in my opinion not entirely correct.
mukasey in washington we dutch would call a justice minister.

Isn't the attorney general our top law enforcement official? Would that not be the equivalent of Rudy Croes in Aruba, as minister of justice in Aruba?

yes, USA attorney general = Aruban justice minister

Aruban procureur general = don't know USA equivalent (maybe deputy attorney general or associate attorney general.

Nico Jörg was advocate general wich would be sollicitor general in the usa.
but Theresa Croes-Fernandes announced retirement beginning last year effective january 2008 but she went on early leave in may 2007 so Nico Jörg became acting procureur generaal.

Is it true that Rudy is NOT an attorney though?

i have been looking for a biography on Rudy Croes for a long time.
i don't know what studies he has done.
in the early nineties he was also justice minister.
but he resigned (or had to resign because of the IRT-affair).
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GreatOwl
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« Reply #211 on: February 22, 2008, 10:16:40 AM »

Klaas, I sent you an e-mail
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« Reply #212 on: February 22, 2008, 10:21:44 AM »

Klaas, I sent you an e-mail

Done - beautiful pictures!
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« Reply #213 on: February 22, 2008, 10:28:03 AM »

DATELINE - NBC - 10PM ET TONIGHT!

Chris Hansen reports on the Natalee Holloway investigation

'Dateline' Friday premieres with an exclusive behind-the-scenes look inside the search for Natalee Holloway's body this Friday, Feb. 22 at 10pm ET

PRESS RELEASE

NBC News
updated 2:09 p.m. PT, Wed., Feb. 20, 2008

NEW YORK - - February 20, 2008 – As new information is heating up the Natalee Holloway case, "Dateline" Friday premieres with an exclusive behind-the-scenes look deep inside the investigation and continuing search for her body. The hour-long broadcast, reported on by Chris Hansen, includes an exclusive interview with a friend who was with Natalee the night she disappeared who is speaking out for the first time, both of Natalee's parents and the leader of the search party.  The report will air at 10 p.m. ET.

David Corvo is the executive producer of "Dateline NBC."


© 2008 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23261368/

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« Reply #214 on: February 22, 2008, 10:32:59 AM »

caesu

Is there an Attorney General position and is that different than how you describe Jorg's position??

Principal Government Officials
Governor General--Fredis J. Refunjol
Prime Minister--Nelson O. Oduber
Deputy Prime Minister--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Labor, Culture, Integration, Community Development & Sports--T.F. Ramon Lee
Minister of Finance & Economic Affairs--Nilo J.J. Swaen
Minister of General Affairs and Foreign Relations--Nelson O. Oduber
Minister of Social Affairs and Public Works--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Public Health and Environment--Candelario A.S.D. Wever
Minister of Justice--Hyacintho R. Croes
Minister of Tourism & Transportation--Edison Briesen
Minister Plenipotentiary to The Hague--F. Walfrido Croes
Minister Plenipotentiary to Washington, DC--vacant
President, Bank of Aruba--Rob Henriquez
Attorney General--Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/22491.htm

that's is not update i guess.
current but acting (temporaly) PG is Nico Jörg

and attorney general is the name the usa uses for this, but this is in my opinion not entirely correct.
mukasey in washington we dutch would call a justice minister.

Isn't the attorney general our top law enforcement official? Would that not be the equivalent of Rudy Croes in Aruba, as minister of justice in Aruba?

yes, USA attorney general = Aruban justice minister

Aruban procureur general = don't know USA equivalent (maybe deputy attorney general or associate attorney general.

Nico Jörg was advocate general wich would be sollicitor general in the usa.
but Theresa Croes-Fernandes announced retirement beginning last year effective january 2008 but she went on early leave in may 2007 so Nico Jörg became acting procureur generaal.

Is it true that Rudy is NOT an attorney though?

It is easy to get it wrong when relying on the internet for information, especially trying to understand not only the written law of a country but also the attitudes and social structure of a country. But Rudy seems to have absolute control of all things legal, and illegal, in Aruba. If he wanted to be PM, he could have been, but the best paying job in Aruba is by all measures, the Minister of Justice. All activities I have seen mentioned in Natalee discussions such as drug smuggling, money laundering, sex slave trafficking, all have a franchise fee so to speak to be allowed to do business in Aruba, and it has to be paid in cash to Rudy. The Dutch actually staff the courts, the prosecutor, and the chief of police position more so than they operate them, because they operate under the control and authority of Aruba, but are subject to he professional standards so to speak of Holland and the chain of appeals of the courts goes to Holland. But Holland cannot exercise the will or discretion, only Aruba can. The local Dutch will lose their jobs if they "tell on Rudy," and possibly their professional licenses, but Rudy will be exposed. It is also not their duty to act on their own initiative when they discover corruption in Aruba, and they may not even have the power to act on what they know. But they do know. And while they have different interest than the Arubans such as Rudy, they are probably corrupted by the same folks. That is what creates such odd and contradictory relationships in Aruba. They hate each other but are bound at the hip by corruption and the arrangement to provide services.

 The funny thing is that even if Rudy was exposed, there is nothing that can happen to him unless he loses the legacy of his father's support. Holland or any other country has no right to prosecute Rudy for crimes he committs in Aruba concerning activities in Aruba, so he would do as he did with the sex slaves, hunker down and proceed. Arubans don't see that type of behavior as that big of a deal apparently. Drug smuggling is expected, money laundering is expected. Those people drop money in Aruba, tipping fees or chump change, for the locals, and they are probably even respected and admired by the locals, as well as feared, since they control Aruba and will use violence with the blessing of Rudy when needed. Rudy grew up in Aruba when it was a lot more backward than it is now, and his behavior and attitudes about life, freedome,drugs, violence, and rights reflects those days.
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« Reply #215 on: February 22, 2008, 10:38:19 AM »

Klaas, I sent you an e-mail

Done - beautiful pictures!

thanks
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« Reply #216 on: February 22, 2008, 10:40:21 AM »

caesu

Is there an Attorney General position and is that different than how you describe Jorg's position??

Principal Government Officials
Governor General--Fredis J. Refunjol
Prime Minister--Nelson O. Oduber
Deputy Prime Minister--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Labor, Culture, Integration, Community Development & Sports--T.F. Ramon Lee
Minister of Finance & Economic Affairs--Nilo J.J. Swaen
Minister of General Affairs and Foreign Relations--Nelson O. Oduber
Minister of Social Affairs and Public Works--Marisol J. Tromp
Minister of Public Health and Environment--Candelario A.S.D. Wever
Minister of Justice--Hyacintho R. Croes
Minister of Tourism & Transportation--Edison Briesen
Minister Plenipotentiary to The Hague--F. Walfrido Croes
Minister Plenipotentiary to Washington, DC--vacant
President, Bank of Aruba--Rob Henriquez
Attorney General--Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/22491.htm

that's is not update i guess.
current but acting (temporaly) PG is Nico Jörg

and attorney general is the name the usa uses for this, but this is in my opinion not entirely correct.
mukasey in washington we dutch would call a justice minister.

Isn't the attorney general our top law enforcement official? Would that not be the equivalent of Rudy Croes in Aruba, as minister of justice in Aruba?

yes, USA attorney general = Aruban justice minister

Aruban procureur general = don't know USA equivalent (maybe deputy attorney general or associate attorney general.

Nico Jörg was advocate general wich would be sollicitor general in the usa.
but Theresa Croes-Fernandes announced retirement beginning last year effective january 2008 but she went on early leave in may 2007 so Nico Jörg became acting procureur generaal.

Is it true that Rudy is NOT an attorney though?

i have been looking for a biography on Rudy Croes for a long time.
i don't know what studies he has done.
in the early nineties he was also justice minister.
but he resigned (or had to resign because of the IRT-affair).

The only other job I could find on him was a lab technician of some type, possibly even developing pictures. His dad was a school teacher who died at age 48 but also a folk hero who organized the independence of Aruba, with a vision of it being a tourist mecca and providing a good living for the Arubans, but he either died or was killed on the night of the election. His brother is Hendrick Croes? a very prominent but alleged dirty attorney in Aruba and a former Minister of Justice. Rudy has immense democratic support on th island, owing I guess to his father. Or maybe the political party grants him the power.
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« Reply #217 on: February 22, 2008, 10:40:36 AM »

Posted on the front page of SM by elisabeth (Netherlands):

elisabeth wrote:


Patrick has testified thursday morning on Aruba, voluntarily. Daily tips and information is still coming in and 25 detecives are said to work on the case. The OM vigorously denies that an arrest of Patrick has ever been considered, just rumors it is said.


Feb 22, 9:39 AM
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« Reply #218 on: February 22, 2008, 10:47:58 AM »

Could someone tell me why joran said the shoes were size 14 it turned out later he had size 10?


Joran said in his book it was because of the difference in English / American sizes....but that isn't correct; American 10 - English 12 / American 12 - English 14. He didn't tell the police when they asked him; probably a lie he made up later on...
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« Reply #219 on: February 22, 2008, 10:50:01 AM »

Could someone tell me why joran said the shoes were size 14 it turned out later he had size 10?


Joran said in his book it was because of the difference in English / American sizes....but that isn't correct; American 10 - English 12 / American 12 - English 14. He didn't tell the police when they asked him; probably a lie he made up later on...


Welcome GBMW!  The quote thing can get tricky at times, lol

You are correct, Joran is FOS
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