Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[Buckeye]

The NA before it became a retirement investment for the baby boomers, attracted mostly criminals or people with a dark past. I know I am reaching again but Marcus Wiggins, a 13 year old confessed to a murder in 1991, the police were accused of torturing him with electric shock. A judge threw out Wiggins' confession out the following year, and the charges were dismissed.
Could this be a relative? A son?

What is NA and where did this happen?

Netherlands Antilles??   

[truthseeker2]

Hello Monkeys!! We had a HUUge day in Boston! We made a huge impact and a major blow to that ATA/Aruban Govt Travel show and them being a major sponsor. We kicked ass and it was all too easy! I have lot's to tell as it was a long day and plenty of action. Met again with Rob Smith for 10 minutes or so as well as 4 other Arubans. He told me three times he admired us for what we are doing but I have something to address with him as he is way over his head and the BS don't fly with us Monkeys!. It would be very embarrassing for him if he talked to me any longer but I respect him for being cordial. Head of security told me one of the Arubans was lying about me handing out info,showing my sweater..etc in the Travel Show as he did it for 2 days trying to get me kicked out. They aren't all good people at that booth and I take it back. At least two are dirtbags.

I am completely exhausted and will try to fill everyone in on all the details on the recording and here in the cage. A very successful day and a big thank you to the fellow Monkeys who came out with me and stood up for Natalee in Boston and those that gave support. It's amazing what we accomplished and I want to tell you all how important these events are after seeing it again today. We are underestimated big time!! Both here and at these shows.

You guys are absolutely awesome!!

[JE]

Posted at BFN:

From a Dutch poster in the comments section on my hollowaycase.com site:

On tape, but not in the transcript: "I think she's had something in her drink"

In the transcript of the Joran and Patrick tapes Joran is saying, on january 16: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He ['Daury'] says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

At that point Joran is interrupted by Patrick, asking if he tried to resuscitate Natalee. Also there is pretty much noise from the car. But I'm 90%-95% sure Joran is actually saying: I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either, I think she's got something in her drink".
That addition was also left out in the dutch subtitles. It can be heard in a clip on the URL that I put as 'homepage' (quod non) at 01'09"

This might shed some light on why Joran called no police or ambulance: he may have been afraid that he would be blamed for that 'something', whether or not he had anything to do with it. However, if things happened as he told in that car, he thought of himself first.

Here's the part he is referring to:

J: So he came to there.  And he says, "Joran, what have you done? But she looks so sweet, you know?"
 
P: And she's just lying still?
 
J: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/media/devriestape.htm

The Dutch poster is quoting the 1:09 mark of the following link.  Can any of our Dutch posters hear anything??

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_v

Buckeye i can t say with 100% certainty but he could also have said: Ik denk dat ze teveel te drinken heeft gehad
which means : I think she had too much too drink.

[Nut44x4]

Thanks *******!!! Thanks to all of you. We are very proud of you all!

An Aruban lying?? Nooooooooooo, say it ain't so!!

[Buckeye]

Posted at BFN:

From a Dutch poster in the comments section on my hollowaycase.com site:

On tape, but not in the transcript: "I think she's had something in her drink"

In the transcript of the Joran and Patrick tapes Joran is saying, on january 16: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He ['Daury'] says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

At that point Joran is interrupted by Patrick, asking if he tried to resuscitate Natalee. Also there is pretty much noise from the car. But I'm 90%-95% sure Joran is actually saying: I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either, I think she's got something in her drink".
That addition was also left out in the dutch subtitles. It can be heard in a clip on the URL that I put as 'homepage' (quod non) at 01'09"

This might shed some light on why Joran called no police or ambulance: he may have been afraid that he would be blamed for that 'something', whether or not he had anything to do with it. However, if things happened as he told in that car, he thought of himself first.

Here's the part he is referring to:

J: So he came to there.  And he says, "Joran, what have you done? But she looks so sweet, you know?"
 
P: And she's just lying still?
 
J: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/media/devriestape.htm

The Dutch poster is quoting the 1:09 mark of the following link.  Can any of our Dutch posters hear anything??

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_v

Buckeye i can t say with 100% certainty but he could also have said: Ik denk dat ze teveel te drinken heeft gehad
which means : I think she had too much too drink.

hmmmmm

[klaasend]

JE - thanks for the clarification on Joran's words!

[Buckeye]

JE

From another blog:

"Ik denk dat ze iets door haar drinken heeft gehad"

His Dutch is not very good, but this sentence is ok. He could have said "haar drankje" instead of drinken, but I say it like this all the time.

Drinken is more a reference to what she has been drinking the entire night, instead of "haar drankje" which is a reference to just one drink (probably the one where the supposed drugs were in?)

[klaasend]

Buckeye - I'm seeing some of the Dutch posters at RU (one's that aren't real happy with Joran) say it says the same as JE. 

[Blonde]

O.K. I know I am stretching the Taffy here but~

From Dateline~This bizarre story originated in the central American nation of Nicaragua.It happened last month, when Natalee’s father Dave received a message from a man who called himself Marcos. He said he had important information about where they could find Natalee's body.

Could Marcos be Marcus????

A fourth man detained in the case, 26-year-old party boat disc jockey Steve Gregory Croes, said he knew one of the two Surinamese brothers arrested with Joran van der Sloot from an Internet cafe, his boss, Marcus Wiggins, has said. Wiggins' boat, the Tattoo, docks near the Holiday Inn.

Is there any info on Marcus Wiggins?

I'll help you look into this

[Buckeye]

Buckeye - I'm seeing some of the Dutch posters at RU (one's that aren't real happy with Joran) say it says the same as JE. 

Yeh, I just reread....guess I had saved stuff too soon.   

[Rob]

she had too much to drink or her drink was drugged - either way - that's rape. Now let's get that animal locked up.

What says you Taco?

[Blonde]

Fourth suspect in Aruba missing-girl case is disc jockey
 
AP
Saturday, June 18, 2005
 

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A fourth man detained in the case of a missing US teen is a disc jockey aboard a tourist boat offering nightly party cruises, his employer said yesterday.

Steve Gregory Croes, whom authorities earlier identified only by his initials, "SGC," said he was contacted by police Thursday night and went to the station voluntarily to give a statement, according to the employer, Marcus Wiggins. Croes was arrested early yesterday.

Croes also said he knew one of two Surinamese brothers being detained in the case because he went to the same Internet cafe, Wiggins told The Associated Press.

Croes was working as a disc jockey on the "Tattoo", a large tourist boat offering nightly dining, dancing and swimming, Wiggins said.

Wiggins said he had seen neither the Surinamese brothers,
Deepak Kalpoe, 21, or Satish Kalpoe, 18, nor fellow detainee Joran van der Sloot, 17, the son of a justice official from Holland, aboard the boat. A brochure for the boat says patrons must be 18 or older.

"I've never had problems with him," Wiggins said of Croes. "He keeps to himself and shows up to work every day and does his job."

Wiggins said Croes had worked for the boat "for a period of time," but could not say how long exactly.


http://tinyurl.com/37bysl

[mishy]

she had too much to drink or her drink was drugged - either way - that's rape. Now let's get that animal locked up.

What says you Taco?

I'm not Taco  (thank God), but I say hell yeah!!!!!! 

[JE]

Even if he said "I think she had too much to drink" it still raises the question, maybe even more so, why jump to the conclusion that she's dead and dispose of her body.

[klaasend]

Even if he said "I think she had too much to drink" it still raises the question, maybe even more so, why jump to the conclusion that she's dead and dispose of her body.

JE - there's a reason he told Beth and Jug that Natalee fell and hit her head.  Natalee was dead and Joran knew it.  She was also likely drugged.  He had to dispose of her body.  He couldn't leave it because her body would prove she was murdered.

[cubbeegirl]

she had too much to drink or her drink was drugged - either way - that's rape. Now let's get that animal locked up.

What says you Taco?

I'm not Taco  (thank God), but I say hell yeah!!!!!! 

O/T... mishy the trial starts tomorrow, thanks for bringing the candle linke forward....
I have sent the link to Danette...

[JE]

That scene in the tape also has the passage where he says "but she was looking so sweet" i posted this before, it struck me cause it was the only time he said someting nice about her almost as if he was softening things for himself maybe about the way she looked. He said this in response to the other person asking: Joran what have you done?

Would anyone ask what have you done? if they saw someone passed out from drinking too much?

[JE]

Even if he said "I think she had too much to drink" it still raises the question, maybe even more so, why jump to the conclusion that she's dead and dispose of her body.

JE - there's a reason he told Beth and Jug that Natalee fell and hit her head.  Natalee was dead and Joran knew it.  She was also likely drugged.  He had to dispose of her body.  He couldn't leave it because her body would prove she was murdered.

couldn't agee more

[Blonde]

Well picking the name Marcos is a very safe name to use in Nicaragua
  I'm sure now it was a cover name San Marcos, Nicaragua
San Marcos (Carazo, Nicaragua) . Keywords: sam marcos | carazo ... also: Nicaragua. Nicaragua
Imagen de San Marcos San Marcos Carazo, Nicaragua

[oldfart]

Hey Monkeys 

I know I have been absent, missed seeing all the new Monkeys join us and way behind on our various investigation points of interest.

So I'm just going to throw this on the cage floor and see what happens.

I was trying to remember the name of the person they brought in 2005 to  review / investigate the investigation and to see if anything ever came from it.
All I could remember is that they came in from Curacao.. After some digging I found a reference to "prosecutor Angela"  and this at Getagrips site

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=angela

12.08.2005
Minister Rudy Croes brings in Aruba Attorney from Curacao
A.M. Digital
12/08/2005

“We have managed to convince a tremendous Attorney in Curacao to come to Aruba and help us in the case of Natalee Holloway, and especially to find out if and where mistakes could have been made. Attorney Angela is Aruba born and is presently stationed in Curacao confirmed Minister of Justice Rudy Croes.

Angela already received all documents and the intentions were to have him work from one of the offices of the Public Prosecutor however, Minister Croes prevented this from happening and instructed to provide the attorney with a private office where he could work without any outside influence in order for him to function totally independent.

So my question is ~~ Is there anyway to find out what came out of this investigation?  Under Aruban / Dutch Law is there anything like a Freedom of Information requests? After all this is not Natalee's case but a case involving the ALE work.

Just Wondering  TIA
OldF