Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[Observer]

Thanks so much to all that supported us and posted nice comments!!!!! It is greatly appreciated!!! I am very proud to be fighting along side of you all!!!!! 

[dennisintn]

Thanks so much to all that supported us and posted nice comments!!!!! It is greatly appreciated!!! I am very proud to be fighting along side of you all!!!!! 

our thoughts, prayers, and thanks are with you all.  stand tall for natalee.
dennisintn

[private eye]

Thanks so much to all that supported us and posted nice comments!!!!! It is greatly appreciated!!! I am very proud to be fighting along side of you all!!!!! 

I believe you have the point position actually currently, and we are shoulder to shoulder behind you:)

[private eye]

I was afraid that this was going to happen with the Persistence. That is quite a boat, loaded with state of the art electronics, and a high paid crew, that is so expensive to operate that I doubt most of us can even imagine it. The fuel cost alone has been tremendous, and that is a small part of the expense. In addition to that, they have expanded the search significantly. They are literally searching every inch of that area. But how do you raise that kind of cash in 2 days? And how much cash are they needing? It would be smart of Aruba to stop spending money trying to sell the US a lie that we will never buy, and instead wake up and tell the world, you know, we have just been wrong, and it is possible that we cannot undo the wrong that we have done, but we are going to at least try by immediately coming clean with at least what evidence we have, taking what action we can based upon what little we haven't destroyed, and working like hell to reverse the damage our actions have caused. As such, we are going to donate the needed dollars to the Persistence as if she can find the body, then maybe the damage can be reversed. Or if this be the case, if they know the body was burned, then now would be an opportune time to tell us, and then reimburse the Persistence for their expense.

Aruba, your public relations people are wrong, your spin doctors are ludicrous, and your methods obviously are not working for you. Step up, speak the truth, fund what should be your search anyway. Just tell the truth and apologize. That is the cheapest, most effective method to restore and build your tourism industry. Apologies and the truth go a long way towards repairing relationships and restoring trust. You are simply burning dollars any other way, and it is costing you a lot more and it is never going to work. You are harming even the bastard who did it, and ignoring his pleas for help. He has confessed twice, don't you realize that by protecting him, you are actually ruining his life. So just who in the hell do you think your current program is benefiting? Not Beth or her family, not Joran or his family, not the island, no one. The only people who will not benefit are the dirty dutch adults who have executed this sordid affair, and they deserve it. They are sober, or at least thay have been during some of this, educated, professional adults who know better and are just sorry. Rudy, whatever they know it isn't going to take you down. You could become a folk hero overnight if you stepped forward, told the truth, and announced that you couldn't live with the lies anymore despite what the Dutch have on you, and regardless, you are going to set the record straight.

The rewards of being a magnet for crime are immense, no doubt, but there is more than enough money to be made in real estate if your island is a tourist mecca. And the quality of life, self esteem, and peace of mind are worth more than the obscene dollars from crime. I would think that knowing your dad was proud of you and being able to sleep at night would be worth a lot. Rudy, people forgive their heros for everything but being a liar. Tell the truth, ask for forgiveness and a second chance and they will give it to you. 

But at the very least, call the Persistence and ask them how much they need. At least show the world that you are going to pay a share of the cost.

[kippy]

Well said Private Eye. Its a sad thought that they have come so far and have so many marked targets only to possibly have to stop the search.  Hopefully something big will happen in the next few days or Aruba comes to their senses and does the right thing.

[private eye]

Well said Private Eye. Its a sad thought that they have come so far and have so many marked targets only to possibly have to stop the search.  Hopefully something big will happen in the next few days or Aruba comes to their senses and does the right thing.

I think that Beth might need to publicly plead with Aruba to make a contribution as the discovery of Natalee's remains should be their goal, and they should be happy they are only paying a share of the expense. They also should invite the search to go anywhere within their waters.

I need to get to bed, but it was nice talking to you. I haven't seen you on here before, so welcome and I am glad you are here:). If you have been here and I haven't noticed, still welcome, and accept my apology for being blind:)

I don't know how they can say no, but it is Aruba:)

[wreck]

I was afraid that this was going to happen with the Persistence. That is quite a boat, loaded with state of the art electronics, and a high paid crew, that is so expensive to operate that I doubt most of us can even imagine it. The fuel cost alone has been tremendous, and that is a small part of the expense. In addition to that, they have expanded the search significantly. They are literally searching every inch of that area. But how do you raise that kind of cash in 2 days? And how much cash are they needing? It would be smart of Aruba to stop spending money trying to sell the US a lie that we will never buy, and instead wake up and tell the world, you know, we have just been wrong, and it is possible that we cannot undo the wrong that we have done, but we are going to at least try by immediately coming clean with at least what evidence we have, taking what action we can based upon what little we haven't destroyed, and working like hell to reverse the damage our actions have caused. As such, we are going to donate the needed dollars to the Persistence as if she can find the body, then maybe the damage can be reversed. Or if this be the case, if they know the body was burned, then now would be an opportune time to tell us, and then reimburse the Persistence for their expense.

Aruba, your public relations people are wrong, your spin doctors are ludicrous, and your methods obviously are not working for you. Step up, speak the truth, fund what should be your search anyway. Just tell the truth and apologize. That is the cheapest, most effective method to restore and build your tourism industry. Apologies and the truth go a long way towards repairing relationships and restoring trust. You are simply burning dollars any other way, and it is costing you a lot more and it is never going to work. You are harming even the bastard who did it, and ignoring his pleas for help. He has confessed twice, don't you realize that by protecting him, you are actually ruining his life. So just who in the hell do you think your current program is benefiting? Not Beth or her family, not Joran or his family, not the island, no one. The only people who will not benefit are the dirty dutch adults who have executed this sordid affair, and they deserve it. They are sober, or at least thay have been during some of this, educated, professional adults who know better and are just sorry. Rudy, whatever they know it isn't going to take you down. You could become a folk hero overnight if you stepped forward, told the truth, and announced that you couldn't live with the lies anymore despite what the Dutch have on you, and regardless, you are going to set the record straight.

The rewards of being a magnet for crime are immense, no doubt, but there is more than enough money to be made in real estate if your island is a tourist mecca. And the quality of life, self esteem, and peace of mind are worth more than the obscene dollars from crime. I would think that knowing your dad was proud of you and being able to sleep at night would be worth a lot. Rudy, people forgive their heros for everything but being a liar. Tell the truth, ask for forgiveness and a second chance and they will give it to you. 

But at the very least, call the Persistence and ask them how much they need. At least show the world that you are going to pay a share of the cost.

Rob Smith went on "Dateline" and expressed that Aruba had spent 'MILLIONS" on finding Natalee ......................... NO! they spent 'MILLIONS' on PR and covering up. I'm not a rich man .. but I will give what I can  to TES. I'm so disappointed in our own U.S. government  -- where is the accountability???

[Bladerunner]

Well said Private Eye. Its a sad thought that they have come so far and have so many marked targets only to possibly have to stop the search.  Hopefully something big will happen in the next few days or Aruba comes to their senses and does the right thing.

I think that Beth might need to publicly plead with Aruba to make a contribution as the discovery of Natalee's remains should be their goal, and they should be happy they are only paying a share of the expense. They also should invite the search to go anywhere within their waters.

I need to get to bed, but it was nice talking to you. I haven't seen you on here before, so welcome and I am glad you are here:). If you have been here and I haven't noticed, still welcome, and accept my apology for being blind:)

I don't know how they can say no, but it is Aruba:)

One would hope that some other "angel philanthropist" will step in and offer support to keep this mission going. Of course you need the MSM to cover this in order to get the news out there. I think your right, the daily expense to conduct this search must be VERY large.

[Red]

Thanks so much to all that supported us and posted nice comments!!!!! It is greatly appreciated!!! I am very proud to be fighting along side of you all!!!!! 

Great job ******* and all at the Boston Travel Show.

If you have not heard it yet ... Observers summary of day 2 at the Boston Travel Show.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/files/BostonTravelShow022408b.mp3

[Observer]

Thanks so much to all that supported us and posted nice comments!!!!! It is greatly appreciated!!! I am very proud to be fighting along side of you all!!!!! 

Great job ******* and all at the Boston Travel Show.

If you have not heard it yet ... Observers summary of day 2 at the Boston Travel Show.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/files/BostonTravelShow022408b.mp3

Thanks! I shoulda waited until tommorow as I am drained but I left a msg anyway 

P.S. Red I appreciate you giving us a home here and the support you have given the entire family for 33 months now. I really believe these Travel events are important and to let that Aruban Govt know this is never ever going away until they solve it and give Natalee her Justice.

[IBE]

http://www.sheprofilers.com/joran.html

this is a good review of some of Joran's words from the past.

Thanks Nut.

On Wednesday September 29, 2005, Criminal Profiler Pat Brown flew to New Jersey to appear on "A Current Affair" and profile their recent interview of Joran van der Sloot in Holland. What aired was only part of the full damning analysis of Joran's thirty minute performance, a performance he believes will convince us of his innocence.

Analysis of the Joran van der Sloot Interview with "A Current Affair"

+++++++++++++++++++++

The following is a link to the entire "Accurent Affair" interview.

http://scrux.com/natalee/joranunedited.htm

http://www.sheprofilers.com/joran.html yes, this site has interesting reading, too bad they can't spell Natalee's name correctly in on of the articles

[IBE]

I live in a glass house... meant "one" not "on"

[greeneyedlady]

Well all I can say is what a week-end.  Today was a bit warmer, but I arrived late once again, however I did make it.  A reminder to all who think taking people with them to an event like this, DONT!  I didn’t do the driving myself so I had to wait to be dropped off, and if the driver is not ready, too bad right?  Well, between that, and getting lost in Boston I was loosing it.  Then the straw that breaks the camels back was at 3-4 am this morning.  It was what I thought was my smoke alarm going off.  So I open the rooms door, and low and behold the hallway was lit up with all those "follow me lights".  But hey wait, wasn’t my elavator right here before?  LOL, I guess this was a real alarm because all the fire doors closed, and left us to try and find the stair case.  Top floor, P.J.s on, barefoot, I yell lets get out and grab my cigarettes.  Firefighters arrived after we were outside for about 10 minutes.  Was an interesting night to say the least.  I had just gotten to sleep from doing my scaredmonkeys thing too.  So I needed at least 4-5 hours of sleep, and was late arriving.  Daughter came down sick too. 

All in all I though it was a progressive week-end.  ******* talked to Rob Smith yet again today, and he led us to believe that Aruba will solve this crime.  When asked why he says that, he says pretty much leave it at that, he knows.  ******* got chased around again today by port authority, evidently someone in the Aruba Booth was pulling port authorities leg about us going in with pamphlets, over and over again, and they finally believed *******.  they will be coming to check out SM later on tonight.  Hi Boston Port Authority! 

We had some very nice people, some of which I am posting videos on, and some that were SO CRANKY that it wasn’t funny.  cant help but laugh at them.  Most of you know why I find the need to go to Aruba one last time, and I went looking for a deal, I am guessing some people didn’t agree with that, but I started something that needs to be finished, and that’s what it will take for me to finish.  Sorry if I offended anyone in my team with that, but I guess you have to know my whole story before you judge me. 

I am going to post the few other pictures I took, including the guy who I was wondering about who he was last night, and 3 videos.  I am then going to go and take a long hot shower and pass out.  Thanks ******* for the great time, and get some rest.  To CJ, and Marlee, drive careful on the long ride home.  I am saying good-bye now, as you just disappeared before I could.

Videos coming, and a few pictures
I'll be back in a bit.......

Hotshot I'm sorry to hear your daughter got sick and hope she gets better real soon. I remember her from last year and the beautiful sign that was her idea. She must have alot of "you" in her and alot of love for you to be there with y'all knowing she could be back home with friends instead of giving her weekend up to stand with the monkey's as they stand for the girl. Give her a big hug from me, please.

Sounds like you had quite a weekend, but just know all your's and the other great monkey's that were there, hard work will pay off and know how much you all are appreciated by us that can't go to these shows. My heart was there with y'all even though I couldn't be. Thank you all so much and God Bless you each and everyone.

[caesu]

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/2008/02/zondag-24-febru.html

article about Peter R. in yesterdays Volkskrant.

interesting bits:

1. Peter R. wanted to trick Joran in another confession after he released the press statement on thursday to announce the broadcast on sunday. Joran wasn't mentioned in that press statement.

he hoped Joran would call Patrick.

but dutch blog VKmag found that open directory and there it showed the name Joran - so that trick failed.

2. when Peter R. showed the tapes to Hans Mos, Mos said he probably wouldn't arrest Joran because it wasn't murder but disposing of body.
back in the netherlands Peter R. let Mos know that they would do one more car-taping.
Mos really didn't wanted anything to do with it, because his involvement would render the the tapes not admissable. Mos said that Peter R. should have known better.

3. after Peter R. watched the last tapings he saw Joran behaving differently. like that he was fed up with talking about it. so Peter R. decided that this really was the last taping.

[MumInOhio]

« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2008, 12:13:51 PM »    Quote Tamikosmom
 
Logic implies that Freddy Arambatzis 6th and 7th declarations ... the declaration that affirms Joran van der Sloot's words in the Peter Devries' video recording ... are missing.

I hope John Q. Kelly is looking into this.

Janet

+++++++++++++


FREDDY ARAMBATZIS

Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway

Page 160/161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.
Unofficial Engish translation

+++++++++++


Tamikosmom….Thank you.

I think we have Bingo!!!!!

This is where I believe the two missing statements fit in.


Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

++++++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
 
Page 160

You are informing me that Freddy has stated that I told him the first
story on May 30th 2005 in the afternoon. In response to your question if that is true I answer you that this could be true. You are informing me that Freddy is stating that I told him Natalee went unconscious several times on the way to the beach of the Marriott Hotel. That she at a certain moment did not regain consciousness and that we have left her on the beach. I don't know what to answer to this, because according to me, I did not tell the story to Freddy this way.

That Freddy has stated that we did not know what to do when she did not
recover and that we then left her on the beach and that I left my sport
shoes behind, that is not correct. This did not happen this way. I have left my sport shoes at the Marriott beach. I think Freddy did not correctly understand what I told him.

++++++++

Has anyone saved a quote from Jossy that said:

In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

I found this at the Judicial Inc site.

Is it possible for someone to ask Jossy ask about this?....

[GBMW]

quote author=Buckeye link=topic=2641.msg355009#msg355009 date=1203870075]

Posted at BFN:

From a Dutch poster in the comments section on my hollowaycase.com site:

On tape, but not in the transcript: "I think she's had something in her drink"

In the transcript of the Joran and Patrick tapes Joran is saying, on january 16: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He ['Daury'] says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

At that point Joran is interrupted by Patrick, asking if he tried to resuscitate Natalee. Also there is pretty much noise from the car. But I'm 90%-95% sure Joran is actually saying: I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either, I think she's got something in her drink".
That addition was also left out in the dutch subtitles. It can be heard in a clip on the URL that I put as 'homepage' (quod non) at 01'09"

This might shed some light on why Joran called no police or ambulance: he may have been afraid that he would be blamed for that 'something', whether or not he had anything to do with it. However, if things happened as he told in that car, he thought of himself first.

Here's the part he is referring to:

J: So he came to there.  And he says, "Joran, what have you done? But she looks so sweet, you know?"
 
P: And she's just lying still?
 
J: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/media/devriestape.htm

The Dutch poster is quoting the 1:09 mark of the following link.  Can any of our Dutch posters hear anything??


I've listened to it many times; I really don't hear anything like "iets" / '" something". This is what I heard (and 4 other people who I've asked without telling what they should hear ...):

"I don't know man, I don't know. I think she's had too much to drink" ("Ik denk dat ze te veel te drinken heeft gehad").

[BettyLynn]

July & August 2005 Watersports Update


Tattoo Party Boat has a new owner. Perri van Dongen purchased the Tattoo party boat from previous owner Marcus Wiggins (Aruba Adventures). Perri, having worked for Aruba Adventure for a while, moved on to open a broker’s agency and his first client was Tattoo. Aruba Adventures now operate “Mi Dushi” and the party buses, known as Kukoo Kunuku Paranda Tours.


The above is from agents.aruba.com 

[EURobert]

Good morning all you Monks,

Just read that Beths book is translated into Dutch now! Great news. And a good move imo. This will keep up the pressure on the authorities and de Ditch-family.

I posted this on the FP:

Beths book translated in Dutch! (Good move! I’ll buy!)

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/buitenland/articleview/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2008/02_februari/25/buitenland/0225_1030_boek_holloway.xml

(Transl.: Google and me.)

Twitty describes nightmare after disappearance daughter

Book mother Holloway in Dutch

The book that Beth Twitty wrote about her missing daughter Natalee, is translated in Dutch.

Nightmare

The book appeared earlier in the United States as “Loving Natalee.” In Dutch it’s called the ‘Lieve Natalee’ (Dear/lovely Natalee). Twitty describes in the book the “nightmare” in which she ended up after her daughter went missing during a short holiday on Aruba.

Research

Furthermore, she talks about the investigation into the case, and the three main suspects: Joran van der Sloot and the brothers Kalpoe. The American version of the book on Amazon.com gets nearly five stars.

-------


BTW: interesting discussion at the beginning of this thread about what Joran is saying in the car. I think he says: "Ik denk dat ze wat ........ drinken heeft gedaan." (Literally: I think that they/she something...... drink has done.) But what he says on the dotted line is very hard to hear. But whatever he says it's probably not a good Dutch sentence. Joran doesn't speak Dutch perfectly because probably his 'first' language is papiamento (the language he feels most comfortable with). So the sentence could also be something like (literally): I think that they/she something to much drink has done. Another option could be that he changes in the sentence what he wants to say. So first he wants to say: I think THEY did something in/through her drink. And then he changes the sentence to give her the blame and wants to say: I think that she something in her drink/to much drink has done.

Interesting...

[greeneyedlady]

Good morning all you Monks,

Just read that Beths book is translated into Dutch now! Great news. And a good move imo. This will keep up the pressure on the authorities and de Ditch-family.

I posted this on the FP:

Beths book translated in Dutch! (Good move! I’ll buy!)

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/buitenland/articleview/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2008/02_februari/25/buitenland/0225_1030_boek_holloway.xml

(Transl.: Google and me.)

Twitty describes nightmare after disappearance daughter

Book mother Holloway in Dutch

The book that Beth Twitty wrote about her missing daughter Natalee, is translated in Dutch.

Nightmare

The book appeared earlier in the United States as “Loving Natalee.” In Dutch it’s called the ‘Lieve Natalee’ (Dear/lovely Natalee). Twitty describes in the book the “nightmare” in which she ended up after her daughter went missing during a short holiday on Aruba.

Research

Furthermore, she talks about the investigation into the case, and the three main suspects: Joran van der Sloot and the brothers Kalpoe. The American version of the book on Amazon.com gets nearly five stars.

-------


BTW: interesting discussion at the beginning of this thread about what Joran is saying in the car. I think he says: "Ik denk dat ze wat ........ drinken heeft gedaan." (Literally: I think that they/she something...... drink has done.) But what he says on the dotted line is very hard to hear. But whatever he says it's probably not a good Dutch sentence. Joran doesn't speak Dutch perfectly because probably his 'first' language is papiamento (the language he feels most comfortable with). So the sentence could also be something like (literally): I think that they/she something to much drink has done. Another option could be that he changes in the sentence what he wants to say. So first he wants to say: I think THEY did something in/through her drink. And then he changes the sentence to give her the blame and wants to say: I think that she something in her drink/to much drink has done.

Interesting...

Thanks EURobert, this is great, Beth's book in Dutch. I think you're right..good move.

[Nut44x4]

Well said Private Eye. Its a sad thought that they have come so far and have so many marked targets only to possibly have to stop the search.  Hopefully something big will happen in the next few days or Aruba comes to their senses and does the right thing.

I think that Beth might need to publicly plead with Aruba to make a contribution as the discovery of Natalee's remains should be their goal, and they should be happy they are only paying a share of the expense. They also should invite the search to go anywhere within their waters.

I need to get to bed, but it was nice talking to you. I haven't seen you on here before, so welcome and I am glad you are here:). If you have been here and I haven't noticed, still welcome, and accept my apology for being blind:)

I don't know how they can say no, but it is Aruba:)

One would hope that some other "angel philanthropist" will step in and offer support to keep this mission going. Of course you need the MSM to cover this in order to get the news out there. I think your right, the daily expense to conduct this search must be VERY large.

It was posted somewhere a while back, but I do not remember where I saw it. It was posted @  $50,000/day .....