Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[Bearlyhere]

On another note,

Patrick was jumped while leaving (or at) a Casino last night by Joran's thug friends.  I don't know if he was hurt, but the fight was broken up by the Polis.

Oh no!  I hope he is okay.

This will really keep people away from Aruba.  You just have to show people what these guys are really like.  Actions speak louder than words.  Just keep the camera rolling, no one will ever want to visit again.  They are their own boycott advertisement.

[caesu]

Good evening Monkeys 
 I don't quite understand this article. Sorry if this has been posted already.

It might help if I put the link  in....  

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php

littletxlady ... thank you.

I knew it!!  Hans Mos was aware of the Peter Devries video recording ... the last segment!

I am skeptical that Joran van der Sloot was forewarned by Hans Mos that Patrick van der Eem would betray him and ... an Aruban plan emerges ... an Aruban plan which implicates Joran as being the ONLY person who was with Natalee when she appeared to die from an overdose but ... distances Joran from the crime of murder.  An Aruban plan that disrgards the gardener's observation.  An Aruban plan which will provide Natalee's family with a measure of closure and ... will be instrumental in making them back off which will have the ability to make the Natalee Holloway case become a faded memory.

Think about it.  Joran distances his father.  The Kalpoes are distanced ... they have the ability to implicate Paulus.  Those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee from the beach are distanced ... they have the ability to distance Paulus.

At this point it is all about protecting Paulus ... he has the most to lose.  Joran was a minor when Natalee Holloway went missing ... he would would receive a slap on the wrist from the Aruban Justice Systen or ... the video recording will be dismissed as evidence.  Nevertheless ... Joran will be the sacrifice.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to name his assistance in the last taping ... the prior taping he had refused to devulge this name.  Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to claim that he made a call from the public phone ... the international phone.  These were lies that could be easily verified.

However ... I believe that Joran messed up when he concedes that he does not know whether Natalee was deceased when he arranged to have her dumped at sea.  I also believe that Joran messed up when he revealed that his father provided him with a cell phone when he was in prision.  I do not think that these are lies.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the November, 2007 detentions were a ruse ... an opportunity for getting stories straight in regards to the impending video recording.  The last segment of that video was recorded following Joran release from prison.

Maybe ... just maybe ... Tamikosmom has an overactive imagination.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

I AGREE WITH YOUR ENTIRE POST.

You don't have an overactive imagination because this is exactly what I thought happened.  I have said that Joran knew he was being taped.  Tamikosmom I think you hit the nail right on the head.  I said this before this was a setup for them to try one last time to say Natalee died of a drug OD without getting anyone in trouble.

As soon as I heard that the Kalpoes were happy with Joran's confession I knew this was a setup.  The Kalpoes and Paulus are the main suspects along with Joran.  They cannot get away from that premeditated charge against Paulus know matter how hard Joran tries.

that's is why i doubt he was forewarned by aruba (hans mos).
because then they must have told him to say that she was really dead.

but it could be that he suspected something. if i watch the last taping joran indeed looks and talks a bit like "do we have to go over this AGAIN??"

i really would like to see the other 20 hours. but that's also only a fraction of the total time patrick and joran spend in that car.
maybe patrick confessed even more worse crimes to joran?
or he was even more disrespectful to natalee, women in general than joran?
so that joran thought: 'well, let me add something too'. or make something up?

but at the end of the day. it really doesn't matter that much.
we have seen what kind of person joran is.

i hope a whistleblower in aruba steps forward one day.
maybe after the aruban elections september 2009.

but like i said many times before: peter r. will come with a follow up and i doubt he will go over de initial crime again - but instead he will address the cover-up.

[Bearlyhere]

I was just thinking about GVC after reading the interview from him and his father. So many things are hard to believe about this guy especially that they waited a year to arrest him and that he does not know Joran. His Father says he never worked for his company and that is a flat out lie.

They passed on so much bad info we don't know who actually got into a confrontation with the MB teens as we have heard it was Joran,Deepak and GVC. I would suspect it was the latter and that story of him grinding up against Natalee is true. GVC says he was home that night Natalee went missing but some reports say he was working Beach Patrol or was at C&C that night. They just keep stalling and waiting for this all to go away even after 33 months. I sure would like to know what 24 detectives are doing daily when they work on this case. 

I am rereading World Journier.

"GVC [Suspect Gottfried van Cromvoirt] was bothering Natalee on Friday night at Carlos N Charlies. She was dancing with another classmate and this guy (GVC) came up behind her and started humping and grinding on her back and groping her body. She turned around and yelled at him to leave her alone so he left."

So, GVC figures into this on several different levels:
1. Security cameras
2. Was involved with official search for Natalee
3. Made an unwelcome advance on Natalee and he was rejected
4. Became a suspect in her disappearance

This guy needs further attention.

Fin

What happens when they run out of Frosted Flakes?

[caesu]

i read about light sentencing in the netherlands.
that changed in recent years.

a dutch guy, 23 year old, julien c. just got a life sentence for killing a young boy, 8 years young.
http://www.nu.nl/news/1452415/15/Levenslang_voor_moord_op_Jesse_Dingemans.html

[Nut44x4]

Tony to the rescue!!!!!!

[Nut44x4]

Or perhaps they could substitute with >>>>>>

[Bearlyhere]

i read about light sentencing in the netherlands.
that changed in recent years.

a dutch guy, 23 year old, julien c. just got a life sentence for killing a young boy, 8 years young.
http://www.nu.nl/news/1452415/15/Levenslang_voor_moord_op_Jesse_Dingemans.html

What a tragedy!  I went to the link but I didn't understand exactly what it said, but I know enough to figure out that it was terrible. 

God bless the little angel.

[Bearlyhere]

Tony to the rescue!!!!!!

 

Tony, take cover, they are really into flakes there.

[Bearlyhere]

Tony to the rescue!!!!!!

 

Tony, take cover, they are really into flakes there.

Yikes!  Just talking about Aruba made Tony disappear.

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   02/25/2008

Eight years jail for Macuarima shooting 

ORANJESTAD – The two Macuarima-shooting suspects E.J. Lo-A-Njoe and E.J. Thiel are respectively convicted to 8 years and 18 months jail.  The Public Prosecutor (OM) demanded 10 and 6 years jail and is considering appealing the verdict. 

The prosecutor is of the opinion that especially the 18 months conviction of Thiel for accessory to murder is too low.    According to the judge, there is no evidence that Thiel had planned with Lo-A-Njoe to murder someone.  It was not clear either during the trial, whether Thiel knew that his friend had firearms with him.  Thiel was driving, when Lo-A-Njoe pulled two guns and emptied them on a group of young persons, with whom he had a row, and injured two.   One of them lost a kidney.   

The judge considered the murder attempt of Lo-A-Njoe proved.  Lo-A-Njoe had a collision with the group earlier that day.  One of the gang-members showed Lo-A-Njoe his weapon and he felt threatened.  However, the judge didn’t agree with his statement that out of self-defense, he emptied his gun on that same group later.  Lo-A-Njoe went home first to get his guns and then went to look for his enemies.  “Everything points out that he has been looking for the victims”, said the judge.  Besides, even though he hit two persons, he continued shooting until his guns were empty and then started to laugh. 

The judge is of the opinion that the community must get a clear signal that a shooting between rival gangs on broad daylight, cannot be tolerated.  The court nevertheless found 8 years, after deducting the custody, enough for Lo-A-Njoe, who once outside, was greeted by friends.

[Jo-An]

i read about light sentencing in the netherlands.
that changed in recent years.

a dutch guy, 23 year old, julien c. just got a life sentence for killing a young boy, 8 years young.
http://www.nu.nl/news/1452415/15/Levenslang_voor_moord_op_Jesse_Dingemans.html

What a tragedy!  I went to the link but I didn't understand exactly what it said, but I know enough to figure out that it was terrible. 

God bless the little angel.

Really horrific story...
This guy, Julien, had a butcher's knife.
He walked over to the his stepbrother's school.
He walked into a classroom.
The teacher didn't think much of it, because they were moving furniture that day.
So Julien just randomly stabbed this dear 8-year old boy Jesse, to death.

[martini]

Ombudsman resigns 
WILLEMSTAD – Ombudsman Fred Wiel has turned in his resignation with the Island Council this morning. The reason for his resignation is the attachment that he has mistakenly sent to all the civil servants of the island territory of Curacao.  The note with provisional findings regarding the investigation on what had happened near the Marriott Hotel last year.   

Riot-team VKC was put in while they were not trained 

WILLEMSTAD – It appears that the riot team of the Voluntary Corps of Curacao (VKC) that were brought in to put an end to the demonstration in front of the Marriott hotel last November 12, has not received any training on this in the last three years. They were also unprepared for what they found; a group of protestors in a sitting- and kneeling position, and they treated them unnecessarily rough. They approached the protestors with the shield in one hand and the club in the other hand, ready to use it.   

Regarding the violent instruction for police- and VKC officers, it turns out that these do not take the modern notion about the fundamental freedom of demonstration and seated protestors into account.

The use of violence with weapons is in the case of seated or kneeled protestors, not admissible.

full article Amigoe.com   

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If only someone in Aruba would mistakenly send an attachment about the cover up of the Holloway investigation.    

[blah]

Good evening Monkeys 
 I don't quite understand this article. Sorry if this has been posted already.

It might help if I put the link  in....  

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php

littletxlady ... thank you.

I knew it!!  Hans Mos was aware of the Peter Devries video recording ... the last segment!

I am skeptical that Joran van der Sloot was forewarned by Hans Mos that Patrick van der Eem would betray him and ... an Aruban plan emerges ... an Aruban plan which implicates Joran as being the ONLY person who was with Natalee when she appeared to die from an overdose but ... distances Joran from the crime of murder.  An Aruban plan that disrgards the gardener's observation.  An Aruban plan which will provide Natalee's family with a measure of closure and ... will be instrumental in making them back off which will have the ability to make the Natalee Holloway case become a faded memory.

Think about it.  Joran distances his father.  The Kalpoes are distanced ... they have the ability to implicate Paulus.  Those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee from the beach are distanced ... they have the ability to distance Paulus.

At this point it is all about protecting Paulus ... he has the most to lose.  Joran was a minor when Natalee Holloway went missing ... he would would receive a slap on the wrist from the Aruban Justice Systen or ... the video recording will be dismissed as evidence.  Nevertheless ... Joran will be the sacrifice.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to name his assistance in the last taping ... the prior taping he had refused to devulge this name.  Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to claim that he made a call from the public phone ... the international phone.  These were lies that could be easily verified.

However ... I believe that Joran messed up when he concedes that he does not know whether Natalee was deceased when he arranged to have her dumped at sea.  I also believe that Joran messed up when he revealed that his father provided him with a cell phone when he was in prision.  I do not think that these are lies.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the November, 2007 detentions were a ruse ... an opportunity for getting stories straight in regards to the impending video recording.  The last segment of that video was recorded following Joran release from prison.

Maybe ... just maybe ... Tamikosmom has an overactive imagination.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

I have been kind of thinking the same thing.  It is very possible.

[Jo-An]

Thanks GBNW. 

I think the inflection of the voice of Jordan is off in the tape that was played in the US. too.  When you hear it in Dutch, in Joran's inflection, it sounds nastier.  The man who did the voice over did not match it, imo.

Also very, very important imo:
when "Daury" comes to help get rid of the body, Joran says what "Daury" said:
"Joran, what happened." He says in with a very strong Aruban accent.
So my conclusion is that "Daury" is a native local, more a "Freddy" than a "Daddy".
Especially the way he says the name "Joran", like Joráááán.

Here's the clip, at about 0'58/0'59 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV_D9qnuX2E

[JusticeforNatalee]

Member "dmprs",

If you are reading here, could you please contact Vicki@
JusticeforNatalee@gmail.com

Or contact Hotshot.

Thank you 

[Tamikosmom]

I knew it!!  Hans Mos was aware of the Peter Devries video recording ... the last segment!

I am skeptical that Joran van der Sloot was forewarned by Hans Mos that Patrick van der Eem would betray him and ... an Aruban plan emerges ... an Aruban plan which implicates Joran as being the ONLY person who was with Natalee when she appeared to die from an overdose but ... distances Joran from the crime of murder.  An Aruban plan that disrgards the gardener's observation.  An Aruban plan which will provide Natalee's family with a measure of closure and ... will be instrumental in making them back off which will have the ability to make the Natalee Holloway case become a faded memory.

Think about it.  Joran distances his father.  The Kalpoes are distanced ... they have the ability to implicate Paulus.  Those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee from the beach are distanced ... they have the ability to implicate Paulus.

At this point it is all about protecting Paulus ... he has the most to lose.  Joran was a minor when Natalee Holloway went missing ... he would would receive a slap on the wrist from the Aruban Justice Systen or ... the video recording will be dismissed as evidence.  Nevertheless ... Joran will be the sacrifice.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to name his assistance in the last taping ... the prior taping he had refused to devulge this name.  Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to claim that he made a call from the public phone ... the international phone.  These were lies that could be easily verified.

However ... I believe that Joran messed up when he concedes that he does not know whether Natalee was deceased when he arranged to have her dumped at sea.  I also believe that Joran messed up when he revealed that his father provided him with a cell phone when he was in prision.  I do not think that these are lies.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the November, 2007 detentions were a ruse ... an opportunity for getting stories straight in regards to the impending video recording.  The last segment of that video was recorded following Joran release from prison.

Maybe ... just maybe ... Tamikosmom has an overactive imagination.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

Well Monkeys ... I had a good night sleep ... a strong cup of caffeinated Tim Hortons coffee just warmed its way through my system ... the cobwebs are cleared ... the buzz has settled in and ... I continue to stand by my contention of last night that Hans Mos took full advantage of the knowledge than another video recording would be forthcoming and ... Joran was forewarned through some channel (father?) that his "friend" Patrick van der Eem had been videotaping him and ... would continue to videotape him.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php


Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008

Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.

Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.

Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.

The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.

After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.

But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

[blah]

I agree.

Hans most likely knew by listening to wire taps.
Hans arranged for the entire arrest FARCE back in December.

This also explains why there was no new evidence to hold them with.

Hans knew what was going on and he set this whole thing up for reasons Janet mentions above.

[Kimmy53]

I agree.

Hans most likely knew by listening to wire taps.
Hans arranged for the entire arrest FARCE back in December.

This also explains why there was no new evidence to hold them with.

Hans knew what was going on and he set this whole thing up for reasons Janet mentions above.

IMO - Hans Mos had them arrested BEFORE the secret tapes came out so that the "bar" to arrest them again would be risen so high that the judge wouldn't arrest Joran.  He knew what was up and pre-maturely arrested the 3 so they could try ONCE again to sweep the evidence under the carpet. 

Mos was afraid that IF Joran was arrested after the release of the tapes, the pressure to convict would be too great to risk. 

[jackb]

In my research I have never come across anything that implies that Freddy was arrested/detained in connection to the Natalee Holloway case.  His detention at the end of August, 2005 was not related to the Natalee Holloway case.  It was related to "sexual acta with a girl under the age of 16 years."  Natalee Holloway was eighteen years old.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

DANIELS: Yes. But I just can‘t get away from the fact that the Kalpoe brothers arrested today, Freddy arrested today. It has to mean something. There has to be a master plan here. What are you hearing about that?

MANSUR: Well, if there is a master plan, we will know about it soon enough.

What I do know is that Freddy was questioned at the beginning with relations to the Natalee Holloway case. He offered an alibi, I believe, to protect Joran. And then he was released. And now he‘s arrested as a suspect of selling photographs. Maybe they are aiming to get to him through this photo business back to the Holloway case
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/


Diana Emerencia - Freddy's attorney
Associated Press
August 31, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — ...... A third man was arrested with the Kalpoes but his lawyer said Monday that it was unrelated to Holloway's disappearance.

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incidents, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050831/aruba.shtml


Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, “DIARIO”:  What does it all mean? 
I mean, what it means is that these three suspects, in one way or another, had something legally against them, so that they could be rearrested.  And the third one, Freddy, was arrested for another case that has no relation whatsoever to the Natalee Holloway case at this point.

Dan Abrams
'The Abrams Report'
August 26, 2005

ABRAMS: We are back with more on this big news out of Aruba that those two brothers, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, long suspects in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway have been taken into custody by the authorities. Prosecutors saying they are once again holding onto the brothers on suspicion of murder and rape.

We‘ve learned that police have arrested a third person today along with the Kalpoes. Freddie Aaron Batiz (ph), a neighbor of Joran van der Sloot‘s, also taken into custody.  Prosecutors say it‘s in connection with another case.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9118769/


Vinda De Sousa - Aruban Attorney
Geraldo At Large
August 27, 2005

VINDA DE SOUSA, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: The official charges again Freddy who is Joran's best friend and neighbour are intentionally distribute and show sexual images of a minor,
intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious and sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years.


Susan Candiotti - CNN Correspondent
NANCY GRACE
August 31, 2005

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, : And then, Nancy, something else was introduced into evidence, that the defense attorneys claim is not new, has been in the file for two months, and they can`t understand what this has to do with Natalee`s disappearance. And I`m a little uncertain about that, as well.

It involves another young man (Freddy) who law enforcement tells me has nothing to do with Natalee`s disappearance, who took some photographs of a 14-year- old girl, described as of a provocative nature, while Joran supposedly watched, as well as Deepak and a couple other young girls.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/31/ng.01.html


Phil McGraw Disclosure Log

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend
 
Name: loran van der Sloot & Freddy Arambatzis
Date; 13 June 2005118:30
Pages: 2
Writer/lnitiator: Dennis Jacobs I Juan Boezem
Description: transcript of a face to face meeting
 
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambaizis
Date: 13 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date:20 July 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Alenxander Arambatzis
Date: 10 February 2006/17:15
63
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Eric Soemers
Description: interrogation of a suspect
Responsive to Request 41

Possibly the connection is the pics were taken of NH and they do not have to say who it is as the victim is a minor.  I believe that is some of the evidence Vanderstratten saw and when he found out JVs and company was involved started the coverup.  Those pictures are too big of a coincidence to have popped up at this time.  Also they have changed everything else, why not the name of the victim and date of the incident.  Since Freddy told on, or threatened to, Joran they have had to keep all of them out of the picture as many of those involved were the children of those in power on the island.         jack blue

[JE]

Thanks GBNW. 

I think the inflection of the voice of Jordan is off in the tape that was played in the US. too.  When you hear it in Dutch, in Joran's inflection, it sounds nastier.  The man who did the voice over did not match it, imo.

Also very, very important imo:
when "Daury" comes to help get rid of the body, Joran says what "Daury" said:
"Joran, what happened." He says in with a very strong Aruban accent.
So my conclusion is that "Daury" is a native local, more a "Freddy" than a "Daddy".
Especially the way he says the name "Joran", like Joráááán.

Here's the clip, at about 0'58/0'59 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV_D9qnuX2E

Jo-An good observation but the way he says JORAAN is also the same way his father says it
Actually this "Daury" says: Joraan what have you done? Normally one would expect someone to ask what happened unless there was visual indication that something truely bad happened.