Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[littletxlady]

Good evening Monkeys 
 I don't quite understand this article. Sorry if this has been posted already.

It might help if I put the link  in....  

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php


 

[klaasend]

Good evening Monkeys 
 I don't quite understand this article. Sorry if this has been posted already.

It might help if I put the link  in....  

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php


 

This is how I read it.  When DeVries went to Aruba to show MOS the "confession video", MOS said he needed more information. When DeVries said he'd try and set up another meeting with Joran and Patrick, MOS said no because then it couldn't be used as evidence.

It has something to do with the prosecutor can't be involved in secret video tapping of a suspect.

[Observer]

I was just thinking about GVC after reading the interview from him and his father. So many things are hard to believe about this guy especially that they waited a year to arrest him and that he does not know Joran. His Father says he never worked for his company and that is a flat out lie.

They passed on so much bad info we don't know who actually got into a confrontation with the MB teens as we have heard it was Joran,Deepak and GVC. I would suspect it was the latter and that story of him grinding up against Natalee is true. GVC says he was home that night Natalee went missing but some reports say he was working Beach Patrol or was at C&C that night. They just keep stalling and waiting for this all to go away even after 33 months. I sure would like to know what 24 detectives are doing daily when they work on this case. 

I am rereading World Journier.

"GVC [Suspect Gottfried van Cromvoirt] was bothering Natalee on Friday night at Carlos N Charlies. She was dancing with another classmate and this guy (GVC) came up behind her and started humping and grinding on her back and groping her body. She turned around and yelled at him to leave her alone so he left."

So, GVC figures into this on several different levels:
1. Security cameras
2. Was involved with official search for Natalee
3. Made an unwelcome advance on Natalee and he was rejected
4. Became a suspect in her disappearance

This guy needs further attention.

Fin

[littletxlady]

Good evening Monkeys 
 I don't quite understand this article. Sorry if this has been posted already.

It might help if I put the link  in....  

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php


 

This is how I read it.  When DeVries went to Aruba to show MOS the "confession video", MOS said he needed more information. When DeVries said he'd try and set up another meeting with Joran and Patrick, MOS said no because then it couldn't be used as evidence.

It has something to do with the prosecutor can't be involved in secret video tapping of a suspect.

 Thanks Klaas, That makes more sense than the way I read it...LOL! I didn't know there was a 5th recording.

[Kiwi]

I was just thinking about GVC after reading the interview from him and his father. So many things are hard to believe about this guy especially that they waited a year to arrest him and that he does not know Joran. His Father says he never worked for his company and that is a flat out lie.

They passed on so much bad info we don't know who actually got into a confrontation with the MB teens as we have heard it was Joran,Deepak and GVC. I would suspect it was the latter and that story of him grinding up against Natalee is true. GVC says he was home that night Natalee went missing but some reports say he was working Beach Patrol or was at C&C that night. They just keep stalling and waiting for this all to go away even after 33 months. I sure would like to know what 24 detectives are doing daily when they work on this case. 

I am rereading World Journier.

"GVC [Suspect Gottfried van Cromvoirt] was bothering Natalee on Friday night at Carlos N Charlies. She was dancing with another classmate and this guy (GVC) came up behind her and started humping and grinding on her back and groping her body. She turned around and yelled at him to leave her alone so he left."

So, GVC figures into this on several different levels:
1. Security cameras
2. Was involved with official search for Natalee
3. Made an unwelcome advance on Natalee and he was rejected
4. Became a suspect in her disappearance

This guy needs further attention.

Fin

******* the answer is do you have any 3's.

[Tamikosmom]

Good evening Monkeys 
 I don't quite understand this article. Sorry if this has been posted already.

It might help if I put the link  in....  

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php

littletxlady ... thank you.

I knew it!!  Hans Mos was aware of the Peter Devries video recording ... the last segment!

I am skeptical that Joran van der Sloot was forewarned by Hans Mos that Patrick van der Eem would betray him and ... an Aruban plan emerges ... an Aruban plan which implicates Joran as being the ONLY person who was with Natalee when she appeared to die from an overdose but ... distances Joran from the crime of murder.  An Aruban plan that disrgards the gardener's observation.  An Aruban plan which will provide Natalee's family with a measure of closure and ... will be instrumental in making them back off which will have the ability to make the Natalee Holloway case become a faded memory.

Think about it.  Joran distances his father.  The Kalpoes are distanced ... they have the ability to implicate Paulus.  Those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee from the beach are distanced ... they have the ability to distance Paulus.

At this point it is all about protecting Paulus ... he has the most to lose.  Joran was a minor when Natalee Holloway went missing ... he would would receive a slap on the wrist from the Aruban Justice Systen or ... the video recording will be dismissed as evidence.  Nevertheless ... Joran will be the sacrifice.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to name his assistance in the last taping ... the prior taping he had refused to devulge this name.  Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to claim that he made a call from the public phone ... the international phone.  These were lies that could be easily verified.

However ... I believe that Joran messed up when he concedes that he does not know whether Natalee was deceased when he arranged to have her dumped at sea.  I also believe that Joran messed up when he revealed that his father provided him with a cell phone when he was in prision.  I do not think that these are lies.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the November, 2007 detentions were a ruse ... an opportunity for getting stories straight in regards to the impending video recording.  The last segment of that video was recorded following Joran release from prison.

Maybe ... just maybe ... Tamikosmom has an overactive imagination.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

[klaasend]

Janet - I don't think that's what the article is saying.  I think it's sayng that a final segment was NEVER done because by then MOS was aware of it. 

Anyway, have a good night.

[Observer]

The Persistance is equipped with the most advanced sonarapparatuur. Around Aruba speurt the ship for two months to Natalee Holloway.

"Between hooibergen searching for a pin"
By MAAIKE RUEPERT
ORANJESTAD - The father of Natalee Holloway has his hopes on the sonarschip Persistance at the remains of his daughter to be found. 
But so far, the quest, which began as early as December, no results. While the money runs out, the crew starts to the last stage: diving for suspicious objects.

Long before Joran van der Sloot his televisiebekentenis did, departed Persistance-owner John Silvetti and his men of America to Aruba. Since December 15 trotseert a fourteen storey headlines team with the most advanced sonarapparatuur at his own expense of wild sea around the island.

Almost three years after the disappearance of Natalee, it is only the first serious quest under water. Only the coastguard has made an attempt. But Silvetti smiles wrang. ,, The coastguard has never looked further than the extremely shallow waters.''

After a meeting with Holloway last autumn Silvetti said his ship available, which it is in everyday life inspects oil fields. ,, When Dave Holloway told me that he wanted nothing more than his daughter buried, broke my heart. I want the Holloways their daughter back.''

Silvetti said with Louis Schaefer, the financier who already one million dollars in the operation stopped, a zoekteam together. Silvetti with his crew an area miles from the coast and have searched dozens of meters deep. Silvetti:,, almost the entire surface of Aruba.''

Geofysicus Kyle Kingman examine all images of the sonarapparaat that only five meters above the ground is capricious. ,, We will save no inch over,''he says. For one seemed seem the images on the monitor no more than stippeltjes on a yellowish background. But even recognize groenteblikjes Kingman.

Once thought to bite them. On the seabed was a vissenkooi with something on a skull appeared. This week the duiksessies begin with a robot to about one hundred abnormal items, which have been observed on the seafloor. Silvetti:,, It is the last phase of our quest.''

The chance that they ever found something of Natalee, is small. Bones spread and are covered with coral. Natalee is only found when in a vissenkooi or anything such is dumped. ,, We look for a needle in a haystack in the middle of hooibergen,''realizes Silvetti. Kingman remains hopeful. ,, We are on the right track,''says the young geofysicus, who has decided to remain unborn daughter Natalee called.
http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2083917.ece

[Kiwi]

good nite all - ******* maybe their playing 21 instead. I agree what can so many detectives be doing to be so unproductive for so long?

[Observer]

good nite all - ******* maybe their playing 21 instead. I agree what can so many detectives be doing to be so unproductive for so long?

Well they did cut down from the team of 40 detectives they had last year working on this case 

Good Night!

[sirensong]

August 29, 2005
MANSUR: Well, if there is a master plan, we will know about it soon enough.  What I do know is that Freddy was questioned at the beginning with relations to the Natalee Holloway case. He offered an alibi, I believe, to protect Joran.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/



Hannity & Colmes transcript: Friday August 27
Helen: Him (Freddy A) and another detainee in jail right now.



Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years.

And why was he not charged for these crimes?

[Jo-An]

Janet - I don't think that's what the article is saying.  I think it's sayng that a final segment was NEVER done because by then MOS was aware of it. 

Anyway, have a good night.

I read the original piece in the newspaper about this and there actually was a 5th recording.
PRDV did 4 recordings, went to Aruba to have a secret meeting with Hans Mos and Mos said that these 4 recordings were not enough to get Joran arrested again. He couldn't say he needed a 5th recording because that would mean that Mos interfered with the whole recording thing and then they would have no case at all. Peter realized he needed a 5th recording.
But the original car had already been sold so they got another car, installed the necessary recording equipment and Patrick and Joran had one final ride together. Patrick told Joran that his own car was getting new rims and this car was a loaner. (if you look closely at the tapes you can see that there are 2 different cars  ) After the 5th recording Peter went back to Mos and Mos said that this final confession with added details should be enough.

But then of course the judges decided not to re-arrest Joran because "just" disposing of a body is not enough to be held in temporary custody. 

Peter was on Dutch tv last week and he said something about Joran not being arrested "for now" but that he wouldn't be surprised if Joran found a subpoena on his doormat in 4 weeks time.
Tick-tock-tick-tock...

[Jo-An]

*snip*

I also have a colleague who might understand Papiamento. He's been vacationing for the last couple of weeks but he'll be back at work tomorrow, so I'll ask him then.

Bummer... my colleague just walked in the office so I immediately ran over to him but he sadly told me that he can't read Papiamento...

[Frank]

Janet,

I agree. The son he was supposed to "protect" is not in school, smoking dope, and claims his best friend is Patrick? Nice.

He can't keep the story straight, they've fed Joran too many lies to cover for Paulus and he's obviously not the brightest person.

Paulus and Joran, distancing themselves while joined at the hip.

[Peaches]

*snip*

I also have a colleague who might understand Papiamento. He's been vacationing for the last couple of weeks but he'll be back at work tomorrow, so I'll ask him then.

Bummer... my colleague just walked in the office so I immediately ran over to him but he sadly told me that he can't read Papiamento...

Welcome to the cage.  Your English is spectacular I must say!  Your translation ROCKS!  I find Pap much too frustrating to look at for very long.  The abnormal syntax makes me crazy.  I want to grab a red pencil, correct everything and send it back to them with a big red "F" on it.  But that's just me. 

The other day I caught the tail end of a show on PBS about Amsterdam.  Great footage of the canals, the architecture (DH is an architect, I have to look), the brown cafes.  It was very interesting.  They have more bicycles than people.  It was hosted by Burt Wolf.  It was a wonderful program. 

http://www.burttravels.com/pdf/holland.pdf

Evidently Burt Wolf did a series called Travel and Traditions and visited several European places.  Having not been to Europe, this is the best I can do. 
Anyway, I thought Amsterdam was lovely and I learned a ton about Holland in thirty minutes. 

[Bearlyhere]

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/2008/02/zondag-24-febru.html

article about Peter R. in yesterdays Volkskrant.

interesting bits:

1. Peter R. wanted to trick Joran in another confession after he released the press statement on thursday to announce the broadcast on sunday. Joran wasn't mentioned in that press statement.

he hoped Joran would call Patrick.

but dutch blog VKmag found that open directory and there it showed the name Joran - so that trick failed.

2. when Peter R. showed the tapes to Hans Mos, Mos said he probably wouldn't arrest Joran because it wasn't murder but disposing of body.
back in the netherlands Peter R. let Mos know that they would do one more car-taping.
Mos really didn't wanted anything to do with it, because his involvement would render the the tapes not admissable. Mos said that Peter R. should have known better.

3. after Peter R. watched the last tapings he saw Joran behaving differently. like that he was fed up with talking about it. so Peter R. decided that this really was the last taping.

Thanks caesu.
 I follow this site but had a hard time translating this posting.  So, Peter's plan was to "air" info about a hidden camera used in the case, without mentioning names.  He hoped Joran would see the announcement and call Patrick.  But the other Dutch site found the transcript of Mos, that was not suppose to be posted (?security breach?) and Joran's name was released?

I thought Joran did call Patrick and talk to him for 20 minutes after he heard about the taping. But of course, he knew then.

If it's not ALE spilling the beans to Joran (on purpose?) it's the media to get the bucks.  The idea being not to help Natalee but to help their own cause.  WTH  Why are they cashing in on the girl, don't they have hearts?  Good thing she has a lot of monkeys watching out for her.

I noticed the change in attitude and wondered if he suspected something at that point and then started making things up.  If we could see the tape from start to finish, we may be able to tell when he starts really lying.

His attitude probably changed because he told the story a couple of times already; he got tired of talking about it for the ... time. Peter R. de Vries mentioned this also in several interviews. That & the fact that Patrick found it more and more difficult made them decide to stop filming. If they continued Joran probably would have figured out something was up. If he was really suspicious he would have asked Patrick about it / made some comment.

It's too bad most people on this forum don't understand dutch...hearing Joran and understanding everything is a lot different than interpreting Joran with english subtitles. For instance you can hear / see a bit that Joran is lying when he mentions the name Daury; he's just saying the name to have given a name to Patrick so he can continue his story.

 

Thanks GBNW. 

I think the inflection of the voice of Jordan is off in the tape that was played in the US. too.  When you hear it in Dutch, in Joran's inflection, it sounds nastier.  The man who did the voice over did not match it, imo.

[Jo-An]

O, I love Amsterdam, it's my hometown!!
I know lots of tourists come there for the red light district (which is about to disappear, so hurry over if you want to see it!) and the drugs but that's just 1% of what's going on in Amsterdam. It has so much more!!!

I have a friend who is a real language-genius: he speaks English (well most Dutchies do), German, French, Spanish, Russian and a bit of Portugese. So he might be able to help out with the Pap. It has a lot of Spanish/Portugese influences so maybe, who knows...
He's in France right now, skiing. He'll be back next week.

Doei! (that's "bye" in Dutch)

[Peaches]

I agree about the voice inflections.  The Dutch version is much creepier than the English version that is voiced over.  The voice-over is kinda flat.  I wish they would have run the Dutch voices with English subtitles so you could get the total effect but that probably wouldn't have been the most popular choice.

[San]

Good evening Monkeys 
 I don't quite understand this article. Sorry if this has been posted already.

It might help if I put the link  in....  

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php

littletxlady ... thank you.

I knew it!!  Hans Mos was aware of the Peter Devries video recording ... the last segment!

I am skeptical that Joran van der Sloot was forewarned by Hans Mos that Patrick van der Eem would betray him and ... an Aruban plan emerges ... an Aruban plan which implicates Joran as being the ONLY person who was with Natalee when she appeared to die from an overdose but ... distances Joran from the crime of murder.  An Aruban plan that disrgards the gardener's observation.  An Aruban plan which will provide Natalee's family with a measure of closure and ... will be instrumental in making them back off which will have the ability to make the Natalee Holloway case become a faded memory.

Think about it.  Joran distances his father.  The Kalpoes are distanced ... they have the ability to implicate Paulus.  Those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee from the beach are distanced ... they have the ability to distance Paulus.

At this point it is all about protecting Paulus ... he has the most to lose.  Joran was a minor when Natalee Holloway went missing ... he would would receive a slap on the wrist from the Aruban Justice Systen or ... the video recording will be dismissed as evidence.  Nevertheless ... Joran will be the sacrifice.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to name his assistance in the last taping ... the prior taping he had refused to devulge this name.  Maybe ... just maybe ... the Aruban plan was for Joran to claim that he made a call from the public phone ... the international phone.  These were lies that could be easily verified.

However ... I believe that Joran messed up when he concedes that he does not know whether Natalee was deceased when he arranged to have her dumped at sea.  I also believe that Joran messed up when he revealed that his father provided him with a cell phone when he was in prision.  I do not think that these are lies.

Maybe ... just maybe ... the November, 2007 detentions were a ruse ... an opportunity for getting stories straight in regards to the impending video recording.  The last segment of that video was recorded following Joran release from prison.

Maybe ... just maybe ... Tamikosmom has an overactive imagination.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

I AGREE WITH YOUR ENTIRE POST.

You don't have an overactive imagination because this is exactly what I thought happened.  I have said that Joran knew he was being taped.  Tamikosmom I think you hit the nail right on the head.  I said this before this was a setup for them to try one last time to say Natalee died of a drug OD without getting anyone in trouble.

As soon as I heard that the Kalpoes were happy with Joran's confession I knew this was a setup.  The Kalpoes and Paulus are the main suspects along with Joran.  They cannot get away from that premeditated charge against Paulus know matter how hard Joran tries.

[Bearlyhere]

Hello everyone!

Another Dutchie here offering translation help.
I'm really impressed with the work you've doing for the last 3 years.
I take my hat off to all you monkeys who keep the fire burning for Natalee!
 

I also have a colleague who might understand Papiamento. He's been vacationing for the last couple of weeks but he'll be back at work tomorrow, so I'll ask him then.

Welcome to the cage Jo-An.