Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[kippy]

   I feel so bad for Tim Miller.  He believes in the search so much..I pray they find the funds they need to continue.  I believe in them 

[Bearlyhere]

Dana talking about the fabric now.

Bear ... did Art Wood/Dana clarify where the comparison fabric that the FBI used came from.  Was it fabric that Beth provided from a second blouse which was purchased or ... was it the fabric found by the park ranger in the Boca Tortuga area in July, 2005.

I think the implication is very significant if the comparison fabric is actually material from Natalee Holloway's blouse.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.


FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

Click here for photos from the case.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar in the Aruban capital of Oranjestad with a Dutch college student and two Surinamese brothers. Extensive searches have found no trace of her.

Earlier this month, judges rejected an attempt to arrest the Dutch student, Joran Van der Sloot, for a third time in her disappearance. He was released due to insufficient evidence the first two times he was arrested.

Aruban prosecutors had sought to detain him based on hidden-camera recordings captured by a Dutch TV crime show. In the video, Van der Sloot said Holloway collapsed on the beach after they left the bar and he called a friend to dump her body at sea.

Van der Sloot has said he was lying when he made those statement and insists he had no involvement in her death.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html


Fabric found in Aruban crab trap doesn't match Holloway's clothing
Posted by Birmingham News February 26, 2008 3:26 PM

Fabric found in a crab trap off the Aruban coast doesn't match a blouse worn by Natalee Holloway when she disappeared, officials said today.

The fabric was recovered by a dive crew last month and tested by the FBI, which was holding fabric samples matching Holloway's top, according to a release from the Aruban prosecutor's office.

Holloway, then 18, disappeared in May of 2005 on a trip to Aruba with fellow graduates of Mountain Brook High School. Soon afterward, her family circulated a picture of her taken at the beach with friends on her last night wearing a blue, green and white halter top.

The news is just the latest blow to what had been a renewed effort to solve the case. Earlier this month, a Dutch appeals court refused to let Aruban prosecutors re-arrest their chief suspect on the basis of an undercover television video. Joran van der Sloot had told a friend in the video that he watched Holloway die on the beach and asked a friend to dispose of her body in the water.

Hannah Wolfson
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/02/fabric_found_in_aruban_crab_tr.html

Art wasn't aware of being analyzed by the FBI.  I am going to see if I can locate anything about the blouse now,  There is probably a million hits on fabric and Natalee.

 

[vms]

I posted all 6 pictures on page 25 but I can see how Tim Miller would think he might have found something looking at this pic:

I agree, klaas. I understand now why Tim was convinced.   

[Rob]

Bearlyhere - there is this.

http://cbs13.com/national/FBI.natalle.holloway.2.663328.html

[Dayhiker]

I mean this as a big compliment, Klaas posted a picture of Rob manning a booth and there was this monkey jumping up behind him, in front of him, to the side of him, on and on, and when I read your post and emails the energy level and enthusiasm was so high that I pictured you being the monkey just wearing the crap out of Rob who tried but couldn't keep up with you. I thought I bet Rob thinks you are one of twins or triplets and really wishes you would disappear! I was proud of you.

LOL!! I know and thankyou! Energy level was huge..Where else can I do something like that for Natalee and confront the head dog spewing that BS? Part of me is still pumped up  I really wish we could show the full clip of him when I introduced myself. He was staring me down and watching ever so intently when Security grabbed me,expecting me to get thrown out..Later when we talked he learned very quickly that talking to us monkeys is a world of difference between some BS he says in a Aruban press conference or to a American in a Restaurant 
[/quote]


Great job *******! Yep, your average Monkey knows more about the case than all the news anchors put together. Monkeys live it, breath it, and can call out their bullshit.

[Magnolia]

I think maybe the money they need now is to bring in the
deep water divers to go down to search the sites that
they have found with the sonar and ROV.  I am sure that
must be a very specialized field.
They have used Aruban divers before.
The great pictures of the "skull" were made on Dec 29th.
Tim said that he notified Dave that it was a false alarm on
Christmas Eve.  Reckon that could be a different discovery?

[Tamikosmom]

This is a crab trap from the show Deadliest Catch. It weighs 700 pounds and requires a crane to lift out of the water and a wench to pull it in. It looks like the same type of trap found by the Persistence or close to it. And in my opinion, the wrong size trap.

The goon child could not maneuver a trap that size with 6 friends. The trap missing from the fisherman's huts is much much smaller. The trap found by the Persistence probably fell off of a trawler, it happens once in a while and anyone who has watched the tv show Deadliest Catch knows that the owners of these traps are careful as they are expensive. In one episode, one crew fished another's area and the crew cut their guide line. 40 traps lost, all in a string.

Rob ... my hubby was under the same impression when he viewed the DATELINE program.  I wish that Tim would clarify why he was 99% certain that he had found Natalee Holloway's remains when you consider the size of the cage which had been found.

Janet

+++++++++++++++


TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

<snipped>

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.
 
On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.
 
And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--

Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."
 
Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

Tim Miller couldn't help but think that the date they first saw that  Trap -- Christmas Eve -- was a sign that maybe they were on to something  (on the boat)

Tim Miller: Maybe that was some of God's timing. I hope maybe Beth and Dave can have what they have been looking for two and half years.

Dave Holloway: I got a phone call from Tim.

Chris Hansen: And what'd he say?

Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"

Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta-- that-- that's it."

Chris Hansen: Did you think that was it?

Dave Holloway: I did.

And the Holloways weren't alone. The next day Aruban authorities, including chief prosecutor Hans Mos, came on board to see for themselves.

Tim Miller: We showed them what we had. I think they got real interested, too. We all thought we had something.
 
The Aruban authorities agreed the find looked promising. And finally, divers from the Persistence and the Aruban police set out to get an up-close look.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

[Observer]

GREAT SHOW DANA

THANKS *******!

Thanks Great show Dana!

I'M a bit under the weather so I am glad I wasn't coughing in the interview..lol
I wanted to talk about Rob Smith and more about the ATA/AHATA but I knew we were short on time. It's all here for anyone to read as the Arubans will think again before spending so much money on a Travel Show here in Boston. I do hope they can help out the Persistence on this final stretch of searching for Natalee. If she is found I believe it would most definetly give the Family and Aruba some closure and bring Natalee home for a proper burial. Also Natalee would finally get some Justice! I pray the Persistence can finish what they set out to do in November.

[Dayhiker]

Art Wood on now!

Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.

Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.

Without contributions Persistence is coming home.

Send contributions to the Natalee Holloway Foundation.  Everyone in the NH Foundation is a volunteer, nobody takes a salary.

Address:

Natalee Holloway Foundation
PO Box 4363
Meridian, MS   39304

Klaas- Is there a web link we can donate via PayPal?

[Dayhiker]

GREAT SHOW DANA

THANKS *******!

Thanks Great show Dana!

I'M a bit under the weather so I am glad I wasn't coughing in the interview..lol
I wanted to talk about Rob Smith and more about the ATA/AHATA but I knew we were short on time. It's all here for anyone to read as the Arubans will think again before spending so much money on a Travel Show here in Boston. I do hope they can help out the Persistence on this final stretch of searching for Natalee. If she is found I believe it would most definetly give the Family and Aruba some closure and bring Natalee home for a proper burial. Also Natalee would finally get some Justice! I pray the Persistence can finish what they set out to do in November.

It would go a long way to help rehabilitate their image, which has a long way to go to get back to where it was before they queered the case.

[klaasend]

Art Wood on now!

Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.

Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.

Without contributions Persistence is coming home.

Send contributions to the Natalee Holloway Foundation.  Everyone in the NH Foundation is a volunteer, nobody takes a salary.

Address:

Natalee Holloway Foundation
PO Box 4363
Meridian, MS   39304

Klaas- Is there a web link we can donate via PayPal?

No Paypal but the TES website has an option to pay similar to Paypal:

http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

[Rob]

I think maybe the money they need now is to bring in the
deep water divers to go down to search the sites that
they have found with the sonar and ROV.  I am sure that
must be a very specialized field.
They have used Aruban divers before.
The great pictures of the "skull" were made on Dec 29th.
Tim said that he notified Dave that it was a false alarm on
Christmas Eve.  Reckon that could be a different discovery?

Magnolia, I noticed that also, and have been thinking about it. I can only speculate that the initial discovery was seen on the 25th and then was explored in greater detail and recorded on the 29th. We are seeing the video from the 29th only. We have not seen what Tim saw and led him to believe it was a 99% hit.

And remember, we see a video of a video. Hardly as accurate as what Tim saw first hand.

MOO

[Magnolia]

Thank You, Janet.
You just answered my question about the 29th.

[texasmom]

GREAT SHOW DANA

THANKS *******!

Thanks Great show Dana!

I'M a bit under the weather so I am glad I wasn't coughing in the interview..lol
I wanted to talk about Rob Smith and more about the ATA/AHATA but I knew we were short on time. It's all here for anyone to read as the Arubans will think again before spending so much money on a Travel Show here in Boston. I do hope they can help out the Persistence on this final stretch of searching for Natalee. If she is found I believe it would most definetly give the Family and Aruba some closure and bring Natalee home for a proper burial. Also Natalee would finally get some Justice! I pray the Persistence can finish what they set out to do in November.

Me too!!!

I hope you feel better *******!  Take care of yourself!  We're proud of you!!!!! 

[anidac]

It does appear that the Aruba investigation is distancing itself from being a primary reason that the Persistence is conducting a search in the waters off the west coast of Aruba.

Hans Mos ... it was Gerold Dompig ... the chief of police ... who directed Tim Miller and Dave Holloway to the area that the crew of the Persistence is now searching.

Hans Mos ...

FYI the area that is currently being search by the crew of the Persistance is not based on a "story."

It was Gerold Dompig official position within the Natalee Holloway investigation ... a position that implied his words were derived from a foundational knowledge ... that led the crew of the Persistence to the current search area ... which led the crew of the Persistence to embrace this huge undertaking.
 
Janet

++++++++++

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match. 


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

<snipped>

But Tim Miller says that very day, in October, 2005, there was a turning point.

The deputy police chief saw Miller and Dave Holloway and shared a hunch.

Tim Miller: And said, "There's no need for you all to be searching the landfill anymore." He said, "I think you all need to be out in the sea, three to five miles."

Soon, there was another tip -- one that seemed to add credibility to that theory. On the night Natalee disappeared, Miller learned that there had been a break-in at a fisherman's hut on the beach. Among the missing items --- a metal and wire box --- a fish trap.

Maybe,.................. just maybe,    there is a MUCH bigger picture we are about to see!!!!

If ya'll would rather me refrain from using 'colorful metaphors' just say so.  You're not gonna hurt my feelins!

Maybe ... just maybe ... you are right.

I just wish I was blessed with more patience.  Waiting on God to reveal that bigger picture in so many aspects of life is very difficult.  However ... in my heart I realize ... the missing pieces of the puzzle which tend to obscure that big picture are a test ... a test that defines my unconditional faith ... my unconditional trust ... in God's perfect timing.

gunslinger ... metaphors are just fine with me.  A more simplier perspective is embraced when the topic/situation becomes overwhelming.

Janet 


 

It the year of 2007 a mistake or typo in the post above?

[hotping]

Art Wood on now!

Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.

Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.

Without contributions Persistence is coming home.

Send contributions to the Natalee Holloway Foundation.  Everyone in the NH Foundation is a volunteer, nobody takes a salary.

Address:

Natalee Holloway Foundation
PO Box 4363
Meridian, MS   39304

Klaas- Is there a web link we can donate via PayPal?

Good Question Dayhiker....The funds would get there alot faster than snail mail.... 

[Bearlyhere]

i guess i'm also wondering...who's to say exactly WHAT she was wearing when she was disposed of.  we can assume she still had her skirt and top on 

I don't want to mislead anyone, but I remember Beth saying she had the same shirt that Natalee had (either Nat bought 2 of them or Beth bought it after the fact).  I remember something like this.  I hope I didn't dream it, I have often fallen asleep at the computer.  Maybe I'm losing it.



I am going to look through the archives to see if I was awake when I heart this.

You are correct... Beth managed to find the exact same shirt at a later point in time.  I don't think she bought it for the show in Holland but rather for forensics.

Beans, have I told you lately that I love you??  Big monkey smooches to you for saving me from the archives!!!

 

[anidac]

Art Wood says the search is now abandoned!! But the targets are marked but they need funding to go back and search

Does this mean they are heading directly home or out of the area or just going to port for a period to see if further funding can be quickly obtained?  This sucks

They must all be feeling "what if the next target is the one"...  Makes me very sad.

[Dayhiker]

Klaas- Is there a web link we can donate via PayPal?

No Paypal but the TES website has an option to pay similar to Paypal:

http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Thanks Klaas! So happens I have a PayPal debit card that'll work just fine!

[Magnolia]

I think maybe the money they need now is to bring in the
deep water divers to go down to search the sites that
they have found with the sonar and ROV.  I am sure that
must be a very specialized field.
They have used Aruban divers before.
The great pictures of the "skull" were made on Dec 29th.
Tim said that he notified Dave that it was a false alarm on
Christmas Eve.  Reckon that could be a different discovery?

Magnolia, I noticed that also, and have been thinking about it. I can only speculate that the initial discovery was seen on the 25th and then was explored in greater detail and recorded on the 29th. We are seeing the video from the 29th only. We have not seen what Tim saw and led him to believe it was a 99% hit.

And remember, we see a video of a video. Hardly as accurate as what Tim saw first hand.

MOO

It still looks like her to me!!!!
I'll bet Hans Mos nearly had a heart attack when he came on
board the Persistence and saw those pictures.