Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[Tamikosmom]

Art wasn't aware of being analyzed by the FBI.  I am going to see if I can locate anything about the blouse now,  There is probably a million hits on fabric and Natalee.

 

Hey ... Monkeys are always the first to know! 


Janet

++++++++++

Fabric/Duct Tape - Boca Tortuga
SCARED MONKEYS
June 18, 2006

What did the Aruba Park Ranger pick up at Boca Tortuga area? Fabric that matched Natalee’s Top?

What ever happened to this material? Why didn’t the media camera man take a close up of what so closely resembled the green fabric of Natalee’s top? One would have thought that they would have zoomed right in to see what had been collected.

On Sunday, July 17, 2005 the park rangers found the duct tape with long blonde hair in the Boca Tortuga area of Aruba. A park ranger being video’d walking around picks up a piece of fabric that matches Natalee’s top.

The question still remains today, what ever happened to this evidence that was collected? We also need to remember that this material that was found washed ashore following the hurricanes that took place last summer. It is highly possibly that the material washed ashore from another location on the island or from out at sea.

View fabric images:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/06/18/what-did-the-aruba-park-ranger-pick-up-at-boca-tortuga-area-fabric-that-matched-natalees-top/


Tim Miller
RED - SCARED MONKEYS
July 24, 2005

RED: There have been reports that a shallow grave was discovered in the area of Boca Tortuga, on the eastern part of the island. There are also reports that cell-phone calls made by Joran early in the morning came from a location on the eastern side of the island. It seems plausible that thisarea could yield more clues

TIM MILLER: We found a site that we feel as though was a possible gravesite. Our thoughts are that Natalee may have been buried in that hole for 1 or 2 days then moved. We have information that the cell phones were possibly being used in that area
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/07/24/interview-transcript-with-tim-miller-july-24th-2005/
 
 
Karl Penhaul
NANCY GRACE
July 13, 2005

PENHAUL: The searchers were at an area called Boca Prim (ph). That`s on the northern side of the island near the national park.

It`s an area of soft sand dunes. There`s only one road to get down there. It`s a very rough road. You can really only get there by four-wheel drive.  It`s where a dry riverbed meets the ocean. And it`s at that area where this thing that looked like a grave, a hole, about four feet deep and about the length of a body with a mound of sand beside it, was found, Nancy.

GRACE: Now, also, on the north end of the island, where they were today, is that where that lighthouse is?

PENHAUL: Not really, no. The lighthouse is at the northern tip, at the northwest tip. And this area is really on the northeastern side of the island.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/13/ng.01.html

[hotping]

Klaas- Is there a web link we can donate via PayPal?

No Paypal but the TES website has an option to pay similar to Paypal:

http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Thanks Klaas! So happens I have a PayPal debit card that'll work just fine!

Don't forget to specify for "Holloway Search"...

[klaasend]

Art Wood says the search is now abandoned!! But the targets are marked but they need funding to go back and search

Does this mean they are heading directly home or out of the area or just going to port for a period to see if further funding can be quickly obtained?  This sucks

They must all be feeling "what if the next target is the one"...  Makes me very sad.

Tim Miller didn't indicate it was actually abandoned yet.  Tim said they need funds to continue and bring in the divers.  Didn't Art mention a week or something?  That if they don't get funding in a week it would be abandoned?

[anidac]

Art Wood says the search is now abandoned!! But the targets are marked but they need funding to go back and search

Does this mean they are heading directly home or out of the area or just going to port for a period to see if further funding can be quickly obtained?  This sucks

They must all be feeling "what if the next target is the one"...  Makes me very sad.

Never mind.  The answer was posted while I was writing my question,

[texasmom]

Art Wood says the search is now abandoned!! But the targets are marked but they need funding to go back and search

Does this mean they are heading directly home or out of the area or just going to port for a period to see if further funding can be quickly obtained?  This sucks

They must all be feeling "what if the next target is the one"...  Makes me very sad.

Me too, this is devastating.......       

[Tamikosmom]

It does appear that the Aruba investigation is distancing itself from being a primary reason that the Persistence is conducting a search in the waters off the west coast of Aruba.

Hans Mos ... it was Gerold Dompig ... the chief of police ... who directed Tim Miller and Dave Holloway to the area that the crew of the Persistence is now searching.

Hans Mos ...

FYI the area that is currently being search by the crew of the Persistance is not based on a "story."

It was Gerold Dompig official position within the Natalee Holloway investigation ... a position that implied his words were derived from a foundational knowledge ... that led the crew of the Persistence to the current search area ... which led the crew of the Persistence to embrace this huge undertaking.
 
Janet

++++++++++

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match. 


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

<snipped>

But Tim Miller says that very day, in October, 2005, there was a turning point.

The deputy police chief saw Miller and Dave Holloway and shared a hunch.

Tim Miller: And said, "There's no need for you all to be searching the landfill anymore." He said, "I think you all need to be out in the sea, three to five miles."

Soon, there was another tip -- one that seemed to add credibility to that theory. On the night Natalee disappeared, Miller learned that there had been a break-in at a fisherman's hut on the beach. Among the missing items --- a metal and wire box --- a fish trap.

Maybe,.................. just maybe,    there is a MUCH bigger picture we are about to see!!!!

If ya'll would rather me refrain from using 'colorful metaphors' just say so.  You're not gonna hurt my feelins!

Maybe ... just maybe ... you are right.

I just wish I was blessed with more patience.  Waiting on God to reveal that bigger picture in so many aspects of life is very difficult.  However ... in my heart I realize ... the missing pieces of the puzzle which tend to obscure that big picture are a test ... a test that defines my unconditional faith ... my unconditional trust ... in God's perfect timing.

gunslinger ... metaphors are just fine with me.  A more simplier perspective is embraced when the topic/situation becomes overwhelming.

Janet 


 

It the year of 2007 a mistake or typo in the post above?

Good catch.

It must be a typo.  However ... this time not my fault.  I just copied and pasted.   

Janet

[jackb]

I posted all 6 pictures on page 25 but I can see how Tim Miller would think he might have found something looking at this pic:

The cloth IS in the cage, as well as remains if this is a true picture.  Too  big of a coincidence not to be.  Whomever said (including the FBI) that the cloth did not match did not get what is really in that cage or there is cloth in the photo that was put there to make it look as though it IS in there.  I know what I am seeing.   Jack Blue

[wreck]

I posted all 6 pictures on page 25 but I can see how Tim Miller would think he might have found something looking at this pic:

The cloth IS in the cage, as well as remains if this is a true picture.  Too  big of a coincidence not to be.  Whomever said (including the FBI) that the cloth did not match did not get what is really in that cage or there is cloth in the photo that was put there to make it look as though it IS in there.  I know what I am seeing.   Jack Blue

Were the "divers" Aruban??

[Observer]

Art Wood says the search is now abandoned!! But the targets are marked but they need funding to go back and search

Does this mean they are heading directly home or out of the area or just going to port for a period to see if further funding can be quickly obtained?  This sucks

They must all be feeling "what if the next target is the one"...  Makes me very sad.

Tim Miller didn't indicate it was actually abandoned yet.  Tim said they need funds to continue and bring in the divers.  Didn't Art mention a week or something?  That if they don't get funding in a week it would be abandoned?

Klaas may be right..I believe they are running ads tommorow and it is not quite over just yet. I may have jumped the gun on what Art said.

[Frijole]

i guess i'm also wondering...who's to say exactly WHAT she was wearing when she was disposed of.  we can assume she still had her skirt and top on 

I don't want to mislead anyone, but I remember Beth saying she had the same shirt that Natalee had (either Nat bought 2 of them or Beth bought it after the fact).  I remember something like this.  I hope I didn't dream it, I have often fallen asleep at the computer.  Maybe I'm losing it.



I am going to look through the archives to see if I was awake when I heart this.

You are correct... Beth managed to find the exact same shirt at a later point in time.  I don't think she bought it for the show in Holland but rather for forensics.

Beans, have I told you lately that I love you??  Big monkey smooches to you for saving me from the archives!!!

 

It's a pleasure.  I'm glad I could at long last contribute something of value. wink. wink.

[Bearlyhere]

Bearlyhere - there is this.

http://cbs13.com/national/FBI.natalle.holloway.2.663328.html

Thanks, Rob.

Teamwork in the cage!

 

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Greta On The Record
February 26, 2008

Guest: Tim Miller

Greta:

... you will see that cloth and hear from someone who was on that ship


This ship is searching the aruban aruban waters for any sign of Natalee Holloway. Well, they found something: a piece of fabric inside a crab trap and according to the aruban Prosecutor's office the FBI's laboratory tested the fabric to see if it matched Natalee Holloway's blouse but they say it's not a match.

Texas Equusearch is assisting in the boat search. Equusearch's Tim Miller joins us in Houson. He was on the boat when the fabric was found.

Tim are they absolutely certain that this is not a piece of clothing belonging to Natalee Holloway?

Tim:

The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

Greta:

Alright you said DNA, this was found in a crab trap below the surface in the water right?

Tim:

It was in the water and Greta we was looking for a crab trap because we got reports that the night Natalee disappeared one of the fishermen's huts was broken into and a crab trap was stolen and I actually talked to a man there at the fishermen's huts, he verified about the hut being broken into and the crab trap being taken so it was really one of the things we was looking for. In fact Chief Dompig told me 2-1/2 years ago in October when we was at the landfill that we needed to be out in the water, and he felt as though Natalee was put in a crab trap or some type of container and you know Greta, I've been trying to put this together for 2-1/2 years and Louis Schaefer came forward with John Silvetti and it's just been a tremendous task and I believe Natalee's in that water and I don't believe by any way they just threw her over the edge of the boat. We've done a lot of research on that and the majority of people that drown on that side of the island, they float up and they end up in Venezuela and I don't think they was going to take any chance in the world of Natalee floating.

Greta:

Alright, if there are still 170 targets and we just saw the shots showing that you can find stuff believe or not in that ocean, what's the story on the money? Is the search going to be able to go on? I realize this is an expensive search.

Tim:

You know Louis, God bless him, I mean we've got all the expertise over there and all the equipment and you know Louis committed to spend up to a million dollars and Louis went way over that million dollars; in fact he's over a million and a half right now and as of Friday it looks like we may have to discontinue that search because, I mean the funds just aren't there

Greta:

If someone wants to donate funds, w'eve only got 30 seconds left, is there someplace you can go to donate funds if you want to keep this search going, if people want to help?

Tim:

They can go to our website, www.txeq.org, they can call our office at 877-270-9500 and I just don't think we can pull that boat out of there right now, I'm very optimistic Natalee's in that water and we're capable of finding her. Thanks very much Greta.

Greta:

We'll see what the viewers are willing to do because it sounds like there's a chance of finding something. Tim, thank you

[Tamikosmom]

I posted all 6 pictures on page 25 but I can see how Tim Miller would think he might have found something looking at this pic:

The cloth IS in the cage, as well as remains if this is a true picture.  Too  big of a coincidence not to be.  Whomever said (including the FBI) that the cloth did not match did not get what is really in that cage or there is cloth in the photo that was put there to make it look as though it IS in there.  I know what I am seeing.   Jack Blue

Were the "divers" Aruban??

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

<snipped>

The Aruban authorities agreed the find looked promising.  And finally, divers from the Persistence and the Aruban police set out to get an up-close look.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

[texasmom]

Art Wood says the search is now abandoned!! But the targets are marked but they need funding to go back and search

Does this mean they are heading directly home or out of the area or just going to port for a period to see if further funding can be quickly obtained?  This sucks

They must all be feeling "what if the next target is the one"...  Makes me very sad.

Tim Miller didn't indicate it was actually abandoned yet.  Tim said they need funds to continue and bring in the divers.  Didn't Art mention a week or something?  That if they don't get funding in a week it would be abandoned?

That's better news....

[Tamikosmom]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Greta On The Record
February 26, 2008

Guest: Tim Miller

Greta:

... you will see that cloth and hear from someone who was on that ship


This ship is searching the aruban aruban waters for any sign of Natalee Holloway. Well, they found something: a piece of fabric inside a crab trap and according to the aruban Prosecutor's office the FBI's laboratory tested the fabric to see if it matched Natalee Holloway's blouse but they say it's not a match.

Texas Equusearch is assisting in the boat search. Equusearch's Tim Miller joins us in Houson. He was on the boat when the fabric was found.

Tim are they absolutely certain that this is not a piece of clothing belonging to Natalee Holloway?

Tim:

The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

Greta:

Alright you said DNA, this was found in a crab trap below the surface in the water right?

Tim:

It was in the water and Greta we was looking for a crab trap because we got reports that the night Natalee disappeared one of the fishermen's huts was broken into and a crab trap was stolen and I actually talked to a man there at the fishermen's huts, he verified about the hut being broken into and the crab trap being taken so it was really one of the things we was looking for. In fact Chief Dompig told me 2-1/2 years ago in October when we was at the landfill that we needed to be out in the water, and he felt as though Natalee was put in a crab trap or some type of container and you know Greta, I've been trying to put this together for 2-1/2 years and Louis Schaefer came forward with John Silvetti and it's just been a tremendous task and I believe Natalee's in that water and I don't believe by any way they just threw her over the edge of the boat. We've done a lot of research on that and the majority of people that drown on that side of the island, they float up and they end up in Venezuela and I don't think they was going to take any chance in the world of Natalee floating.

Greta:

Alright, if there are still 170 targets and we just saw the shots showing that you can find stuff believe or not in that ocean, what's the story on the money? Is the search going to be able to go on? I realize this is an expensive search.

Tim:

You know Louis, God bless him, I mean we've got all the expertise over there and all the equipment and you know Louis committed to spend up to a million dollars and Louis went way over that million dollars; in fact he's over a million and a half right now and as of Friday it looks like we may have to discontinue that search because, I mean the funds just aren't there

Greta:

If someone wants to donate funds, w'eve only got 30 seconds left, is there someplace you can go to donate funds if you want to keep this search going, if people want to help?

Tim:

They can go to our website, www.txeq.org, they can call our office at 877-270-9500 and I just don't think we can pull that boat out of there right now, I'm very optimistic Natalee's in that water and we're capable of finding her. Thanks very much Greta.

Greta:

We'll see what the viewers are willing to do because it sounds like there's a chance of finding something. Tim, thank you

 

[Bladerunner]

Art Wood on now!

Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.

Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.

Without contributions Persistence is coming home.

Send contributions to the Natalee Holloway Foundation.  Everyone in the NH Foundation is a volunteer, nobody takes a salary.

Address:

Natalee Holloway Foundation
PO Box 4363
Meridian, MS   39304

Klaas- Is there a web link we can donate via PayPal?

Good Question Dayhiker....The funds would get there alot faster than snail mail.... 

I just donated in about 90 seconds via the website.

[jackb]

This is a crab trap from the show Deadliest Catch. It weighs 700 pounds and requires a crane to lift out of the water and a wench to pull it in. It looks like the same type of trap found by the Persistence or close to it. And in my opinion, the wrong size trap.

The goon child could not maneuver a trap that size with 6 friends. The trap missing from the fisherman's huts is much much smaller. The trap found by the Persistence probably fell off of a trawler, it happens once in a while and anyone who has watched the tv show Deadliest Catch knows that the owners of these traps are careful as they are expensive. In one episode, one crew fished another's area and the crew cut their guide line. 40 traps lost, all in a string.

So, how did a trap that size wind up outside of aruba?

 

 Palus may have bought a used trap (ATM) or his buddies in the PD got him one and blackmailed some scoundrel on a large boat to lower it for him.  It is quite managable.  The small boat (PD or otherwise) could have met the big boat off shore and she was later transferred into the large cage to dispose of in deeper water.   Jack

[Rob]

I know things don't look too good right now. In fact they kinda look worse than ever.

Sloot on the run and unable to be contained. Persistence outta money and 100 + targets to explore.... things do not look good.

But in some way, I think something huge is going to happen, and I'm not the most optimistic person as most already know. I'm a self confessed cynic. But, it's always darkest before the storm and than voila`.....

maybe we're all in for something beautiful.

[klaasend]

Tonights Greta with Tim Miller - Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CFkZzKBviM

[Bladerunner]

Wow...someone sent me these pictures (anonymously to my email link on the FP of SM) that were posted on another site.  Real clear pictures of the trap and what they thought they saw in it.  Thanks to whoever sent them!

bmp