Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[AnnieMW1]

I posted all 6 pictures on page 25 but I can see how Tim Miller would think he might have found something looking at this pic:

Definitely.

[AnnieMW1]

This is the way I look at things.  If Aruba allows you to search and test some things that means it is not Natalee.  It is when they don't allow you to search places is when we are on the right track.

They did not allow the Sloot house/property to be searched so that means there is a ton of evidence there.  At this point in time the coverup is so big that even if they did allow you to search they will say nothing was found.

They think they are so much smarter than us and we will never know but in reality we already know that Natalee was murdered at the Sloot home and Paulus and Joran are the ones responsible.  The Kalpoes are involved in a kidnapping and rape.

I still believe that Natalee can be found and it will take pressure from our government to turn her body over to her parents.

Dompig said he believed that Natalee was moved a few times.  Was he telling the truth or was he just trying to confuse.  If Natalee was moved a few times this means that Joran didn't take her out on a boat.  If she was moved it was the ALE who moved her.  Art Wood said it best "this was a professional coverup".

So agree with this San.

[Magnolia]

Is she on land or in the sea, San?

[nonesuche]

Hi Annie & Magnolia - count me in on that one Annie, I do believe the ALE was in on the cover-up of her remains and all evidence. there is no other explanation for the copious disappearance never to be heard of again, around bones on shorelines and duct tape with hair and fibers resembling her blouse and belts that go poof in the night.

[Rob]

Good Morning,

I am a little concerned that all this talk of an accident didn't occur until the Persistence was in the water and the Sloots started to panic. On one hand that's good - the Persistence is on the right path. The other hand  - it's an attempt to sanitize Joran. And only Joran and to distance Paulus.

I believe Joran was truthful... so does TJ who voice layered him. He may not have told every detail he knows, and he may have changed a few things such as "Daury"... but for the most part, he told the truth. In my opinion, you just can't fake that lack of empathy. Joran knew he had a problem and tried a preemptive strike to warn everyone it was not the truth and not good TV. No one does that unless they are caught. It's pathetic... and he and his miserable family are the poster family for everything wrong with new age child rearing. The children call the shots and the parents are the children. Everything is backwards. I grew up with a father that believed in this crap.

An accident occurs and people call the police and an ambulance. In the past we have seen cases where a person panicked and did not call the police. But we are talking about 4 people here. Joran, Deepak, Satish, and Paulus.

For me to believe that all four panicked removes the state of disbelief. It's impossible. This was intentional. Joran tells us all that in his latest confession. "Joraaan, what did you do?" Not, oh my, that poor girl, we'll call an ambulance" or "Let's hurry and rush her to the hospital".

Joran emotionally washes is hands - he went home and went to sleep. No problem sleeping.

Who could do that? Not me. I would still be freaking out over that. No wonder Satish sees ghosts.

Who mentally exonerates Joran? Has to be Paulus. No one else holds that kind of power of a teenager and especially one that is not their own. Joran's own moral compass was never functioning in the first place and he is not even sure what to do. He just knows telling the the truth isn't an option, because it harms him personally. He's like a turtle. He pulls his head and legs into his shell.

We went from dead and leading to the body to missing, to just vanished, to no evidence, to accident.

Accident with no evidence?

Overdosed with no evidence? We were there too.

Murdered with no evidence? We were there too.

Accident with no evidence? This is where we are now.

This is an attempt to sanitize Joran and the Sloot house of horrors should Natalee be found.

The stench of desperation is horrible.

[Rob]

One more point to just make it even more powerful.

In the preemptive strike by Joran, he was all of a sudden worried about Beth. (I know, I almost jumped through the TV too and ripped his face off) and in the confession with Patrick he says "that F'ing mother wouldn't go away".

He was never worried about Beth... not for one moment... just as he was never worried about Natalee.

The real Joran hates Beth for not going away and letting him move on...he doesn't care if he hurts her everyday.

[Magnolia]

Good Morning,

I am a little concerned that all this talk of an accident didn't occur until the Persistence was in the water and the Sloots started to panic. On one hand that's good - the Persistence is on the right path. The other hand  - it's an attempt to sanitize Joran. And only Joran and to distance Paulus.

I believe Joran was truthful... so does TJ who voice layered him. He may not have told every detail he knows, and he may have changed a few things such as "Daury"... but for the most part, he told the truth. In my opinion, you just can't fake that lack of empathy. Joran knew he had a problem and tried a preemptive strike to warn everyone it was not the truth and not good TV. No one does that unless they are caught. It's pathetic... and he and his miserable family are the poster family for everything wrong with new age child rearing. The children call the shots and the parents are the children. Everything is backwards. I grew up with a father that believed in this crap.

An accident occurs and people call the police and an ambulance. In the past we have seen cases where a person panicked and did not call the police. But we are talking about 4 people here. Joran, Deepak, Satish, and Paulus.

For me to believe that all four panicked removes the state of disbelief. It's impossible. This was intentional. Joran tells us all that in his latest confession. "Joraaan, what did you do?" Not, oh my, that poor girl, we'll call an ambulance" or "Let's hurry and rush her to the hospital".

Joran emotionally washes is hands - he went home and went to sleep. No problem sleeping.

Who could do that? Not me. I would still be freaking out over that. No wonder Satish sees ghosts.

Who mentally exonerates Joran? Has to be Paulus. No one else holds that kind of power of a teenager and especially one that is not their own. Joran's own moral compass was never functioning in the first place and he is not even sure what to do. He just knows telling the the truth isn't an option, because it harms him personally. He's like a turtle. He pulls his head and legs into his shell.

We went from dead and leading to the body to missing, to just vanished, to no evidence, to accident.

Accident with no evidence?

Overdosed with no evidence? We were there too.

Murdered with no evidence? We were there too.

Accident with no evidence? This is where we are now.

This is an attempt to sanitize Joran and the Sloot house of horrors should Natalee be found.

The stench of desperation is horrible.

It looks like a staged production where the nature of the crime keeps
diminishing to keep Joran from looking like the monster that he is.
It softens the public's opinion of him....but Natalee is still gone.

[private eye]

A weekend recreational diver can dive to depths of almost 110 feet. I feel like whomever dumped the body knew the waters, new the ability of different search activities, and as a result dumped the body out in water where the depth jumped to a 1000 feet. And I feel certain they would have dumped her in the trap that was missing that night from the hut. Otherwise, they would not feel so secure that the body would not be found. Bodies always seem to find a way to break free, break apart, or some how get loose from their anchor and float up and to a shore if they are not in a container, divers find items buried in water less than 120 feet deep, fairly good search equipment can detect items in water deeper than 110 and divers can go down deeper. But a body dropped off of the shelf in a cage were previously unrecoverable except for the technology of the Persistence. And if she was dumped in the ocean, and a crab trap was stolen that night from the same place, the Fishermans hut, then she would have to be in that cage.

[private eye]

Maybe Holland will agree to pay the Persistence the monies they would normally pay Aruba in foreign aid until the amount needed is paid. That would cost Holland nothing, and would place the burden squarely where it belongs. The US could consider this as well.

[Blonde]

Even in the other picture it looked like a body in the fetal position.

Just like the body in the bag

[Rob]

In Israel when a terrorist kills someone, the Israeli's blow up their house or the house of the family. The Sloots should be forced to sell their house to pay for the costs of the search. They have money for the highest priced attorneys, they should fund the search they caused.

The Sloots are terrorists in my opinion. They have terrorized three countries and countless people.

[private eye]

Good Morning,

I am a little concerned that all this talk of an accident didn't occur until the Persistence was in the water and the Sloots started to panic. On one hand that's good - the Persistence is on the right path. The other hand  - it's an attempt to sanitize Joran. And only Joran and to distance Paulus.

I believe Joran was truthful... so does TJ who voice layered him. He may not have told every detail he knows, and he may have changed a few things such as "Daury"... but for the most part, he told the truth. In my opinion, you just can't fake that lack of empathy. Joran knew he had a problem and tried a preemptive strike to warn everyone it was not the truth and not good TV. No one does that unless they are caught. It's pathetic... and he and his miserable family are the poster family for everything wrong with new age child rearing. The children call the shots and the parents are the children. Everything is backwards. I grew up with a father that believed in this crap.

An accident occurs and people call the police and an ambulance. In the past we have seen cases where a person panicked and did not call the police. But we are talking about 4 people here. Joran, Deepak, Satish, and Paulus.

For me to believe that all four panicked removes the state of disbelief. It's impossible. This was intentional. Joran tells us all that in his latest confession. "Joraaan, what did you do?" Not, oh my, that poor girl, we'll call an ambulance" or "Let's hurry and rush her to the hospital".

Joran emotionally washes is hands - he went home and went to sleep. No problem sleeping.

Who could do that? Not me. I would still be freaking out over that. No wonder Satish sees ghosts.

Who mentally exonerates Joran? Has to be Paulus. No one else holds that kind of power of a teenager and especially one that is not their own. Joran's own moral compass was never functioning in the first place and he is not even sure what to do. He just knows telling the the truth isn't an option, because it harms him personally. He's like a turtle. He pulls his head and legs into his shell.

We went from dead and leading to the body to missing, to just vanished, to no evidence, to accident.

Accident with no evidence?

Overdosed with no evidence? We were there too.

Murdered with no evidence? We were there too.

Accident with no evidence? This is where we are now.

This is an attempt to sanitize Joran and the Sloot house of horrors should Natalee be found.

The stench of desperation is horrible.

It looks like a staged production where the nature of the crime keeps
diminishing to keep Joran from looking like the monster that he is.
It softens the public's opinion of him....but Natalee is still gone.

Luckily you can't white wash shit, and Joran came thru for us when he made comments like

a) I didn't know if she was dead or not, but I had her dumped into the ocean anyway

b) I shook the bitch and she didn't wake up, was both my efforts to revive her and to see if she was dead

c) I was high like I am now, when I am too high for you to believe my confession, but I wasn't too high to know what trained nurses in hospitals have trouble determining with equipment sober, that she was dead.

d) I lost not one minutes sleep

I think to Joran will have to be covered with concrete to make him look innocent and to have any hope of containing the stench. The shit and his stench just permeates thru the white wash. I would estimate 6 inches of 5000lb concrete, and 6 feet of dirt below it over him.

[private eye]

Good Morning,

I am a little concerned that all this talk of an accident didn't occur until the Persistence was in the water and the Sloots started to panic. On one hand that's good - the Persistence is on the right path. The other hand  - it's an attempt to sanitize Joran. And only Joran and to distance Paulus.

I believe Joran was truthful... so does TJ who voice layered him. He may not have told every detail he knows, and he may have changed a few things such as "Daury"... but for the most part, he told the truth. In my opinion, you just can't fake that lack of empathy. Joran knew he had a problem and tried a preemptive strike to warn everyone it was not the truth and not good TV. No one does that unless they are caught. It's pathetic... and he and his miserable family are the poster family for everything wrong with new age child rearing. The children call the shots and the parents are the children. Everything is backwards. I grew up with a father that believed in this crap.

An accident occurs and people call the police and an ambulance. In the past we have seen cases where a person panicked and did not call the police. But we are talking about 4 people here. Joran, Deepak, Satish, and Paulus.

For me to believe that all four panicked removes the state of disbelief. It's impossible. This was intentional. Joran tells us all that in his latest confession. "Joraaan, what did you do?" Not, oh my, that poor girl, we'll call an ambulance" or "Let's hurry and rush her to the hospital".

Joran emotionally washes is hands - he went home and went to sleep. No problem sleeping.

Who could do that? Not me. I would still be freaking out over that. No wonder Satish sees ghosts.

Who mentally exonerates Joran? Has to be Paulus. No one else holds that kind of power of a teenager and especially one that is not their own. Joran's own moral compass was never functioning in the first place and he is not even sure what to do. He just knows telling the the truth isn't an option, because it harms him personally. He's like a turtle. He pulls his head and legs into his shell.

We went from dead and leading to the body to missing, to just vanished, to no evidence, to accident.

Accident with no evidence?

Overdosed with no evidence? We were there too.

Murdered with no evidence? We were there too.

Accident with no evidence? This is where we are now.

This is an attempt to sanitize Joran and the Sloot house of horrors should Natalee be found.

The stench of desperation is horrible.

It looks like a staged production where the nature of the crime keeps
diminishing to keep Joran from looking like the monster that he is.
It softens the public's opinion of him....but Natalee is still gone.

Luckily you can't white wash shit, and Joran came thru for us when he made comments like

a) I didn't know if she was dead or not, but I had her dumped into the ocean anyway

b) I shook the bitch and she didn't wake up, was both my efforts to revive her and to see if she was dead

c) I was high like I am now, when I am too high for you to believe my confession, but I wasn't too high to know what trained nurses in hospitals have trouble determining with equipment sober, that she was dead.

d) I lost not one minutes sleep

I think to white wash this Joran will have to be covered with concrete to make him look innocent and to have any hope of containing the stench. The shit and his stench just permeates thru the white wash. I would estimate 6 inches of 5000lb concrete, and 6 feet of dirt below it over him.

[private eye]

This is the way I look at things.  If Aruba allows you to search and test some things that means it is not Natalee.  It is when they don't allow you to search places is when we are on the right track.

They did not allow the Sloot house/property to be searched so that means there is a ton of evidence there.  At this point in time the coverup is so big that even if they did allow you to search they will say nothing was found.

They think they are so much smarter than us and we will never know but in reality we already know that Natalee was murdered at the Sloot home and Paulus and Joran are the ones responsible.  The Kalpoes are involved in a kidnapping and rape.

I still believe that Natalee can be found and it will take pressure from our government to turn her body over to her parents.

Dompig said he believed that Natalee was moved a few times.  Was he telling the truth or was he just trying to confuse.  If Natalee was moved a few times this means that Joran didn't take her out on a boat.  If she was moved it was the ALE who moved her.  Art Wood said it best "this was a professional coverup".

So agree with this San.

I agree 100% but I am so afraid that Rene did not die in vain, that she was burned, he did it, and thus was eliminated in a manner to tell everyone else, silence. Why else was he killed, in that manner, during that time frame. Except from the beginning they were saying nobody no case. But who knows, thats why I say, where the f**k is Joran so I can beat the blanking truth out of his Frankenstein looking skull:)

[Rob]

Ohhh... I almost forgot something.

I think the Persistence crew planned this mission as well as anyone could. These guys seem like the true professionals they represent themselves as...

If we all remember when the Persistence left for Aruba they were delayed by Tropical Storm Olga (IIRC) and that ate up some resources. IIRC they were delayed 8 or so days at sea. And they have had some rough seas once on Aruba and some equipment problems.

All of those issues helped to diminish the available resources.

You can plan as well as the crew did, but you can not plan for Mother Nature.

[private eye]

In Israel when a terrorist kills someone, the Israeli's blow up their house or the house of the family. The Sloots should be forced to sell their house to pay for the costs of the search. They have money for the highest priced attorneys, they should fund the search they caused.

The Sloots are terrorists in my opinion. They have terrorized three countries and countless people.

AMEN And once they blow it up maybe we will find her under the concrete:)

[private eye]

Ohhh... I almost forgot something.

I think the Persistence crew planned this mission as well as anyone could. These guys seem like the true professionals they represent themselves as...

If we all remember when the Persistence left for Aruba they were delayed by Tropical Storm Olga (IIRC) and that ate up some resources. IIRC they were delayed 8 or so days at sea. And they have had some rough seas once on Aruba and some equipment problems.

All of those issues helped to diminish the available resources.

You can plan as well as the crew did, but you can not plan for Mother Nature.

Have they already searched the original search area and the targets they identified?

[private eye]

Ohhh... I almost forgot something.

I think the Persistence crew planned this mission as well as anyone could. These guys seem like the true professionals they represent themselves as...

If we all remember when the Persistence left for Aruba they were delayed by Tropical Storm Olga (IIRC) and that ate up some resources. IIRC they were delayed 8 or so days at sea. And they have had some rough seas once on Aruba and some equipment problems.

All of those issues helped to diminish the available resources.

You can plan as well as the crew did, but you can not plan for Mother Nature.

Have they already searched the original search area and the targets they identified?

Also, I thought we were going to see a documentary of the Persistence's activities, including a lot of footage from underwater, etc., sort of like an educational or history channel production on Dateline. Was the last Dateline show that show or was it a documentary of Tim?

[Jo-An]

Last night I wondered what Joran (and daddy and the rest of the bunch) would say if they would be questioned while being hypnotized... 
Hard to lie when you're under hypnosis, right? 

[Rob]

PI, according to Art Wood last night on Dana's show, they have it all mapped and targeted. They just don't have the money to search for another two to three weeks to examine the targets. Art was pretty depressed.