Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[caesu]

article in De Telegraaf:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3412690/_Litteken_Patrick_een__smiley___.html?p=2,1


as reported earlier:

- scar Patrick is because he snitched on some criminal Turks.
- Patrick got beaten up outside a nightclub by some people from The Antilles because they felt betrayed.

this weeks magazine Nieuwe Revu has more on Patrick's criminal past:
http://www.revu.nl/10794.Het_viesse_verleden_van_Patrick_van_der_Eem

[jackb]

Good Morning,

I am a little concerned that all this talk of an accident didn't occur until the Persistence was in the water and the Sloots started to panic. On one hand that's good - the Persistence is on the right path. The other hand  - it's an attempt to sanitize Joran. And only Joran and to distance Paulus.

I believe Joran was truthful... so does TJ who voice layered him. He may not have told every detail he knows, and he may have changed a few things such as "Daury"... but for the most part, he told the truth. In my opinion, you just can't fake that lack of empathy. Joran knew he had a problem and tried a preemptive strike to warn everyone it was not the truth and not good TV. No one does that unless they are caught. It's pathetic... and he and his miserable family are the poster family for everything wrong with new age child rearing. The children call the shots and the parents are the children. Everything is backwards. I grew up with a father that believed in this crap.

An accident occurs and people call the police and an ambulance. In the past we have seen cases where a person panicked and did not call the police. But we are talking about 4 people here. Joran, Deepak, Satish, and Paulus.

For me to believe that all four panicked removes the state of disbelief. It's impossible. This was intentional. Joran tells us all that in his latest confession. "Joraaan, what did you do?" Not, oh my, that poor girl, we'll call an ambulance" or "Let's hurry and rush her to the hospital".

Joran emotionally washes is hands - he went home and went to sleep. No problem sleeping.

Who could do that? Not me. I would still be freaking out over that. No wonder Satish sees ghosts.

Who mentally exonerates Joran? Has to be Paulus. No one else holds that kind of power of a teenager and especially one that is not their own. Joran's own moral compass was never functioning in the first place and he is not even sure what to do. He just knows telling the the truth isn't an option, because it harms him personally. He's like a turtle. He pulls his head and legs into his shell.

We went from dead and leading to the body to missing, to just vanished, to no evidence, to accident.

Accident with no evidence?

Overdosed with no evidence? We were there too.

Murdered with no evidence? We were there too.

Accident with no evidence? This is where we are now.

This is an attempt to sanitize Joran and the Sloot house of horrors should Natalee be found.

The stench of desperation is horrible.

Rob, that was a good post.  Well thought out and rings true on all accounts.
       Jack b

[Nut44x4]

I gotta get back to work but I just HAD to comment on the article that has Joran in a psycho ward.  I say BS to this.  If true there is a reason but it isn't because he had a breakdown.  Why?

Because psychopaths have no feelings.  NONE.  Zilch.  Nada.  Zip. 

His ego is to big to be broken.  He never does anything wrong.  The rest of the world is flawed.

No way the Sporter had a breakdown.  My opine.  What say you? 

I will agree. If he has 'flipped out' it is only because he has been a prisoner in his own home (or where ever he is hiding out) and cannot get out and about to mingle/stalk/gamble/drink/pot smoke/drug up out in the open as he was so used to for fear of his own safety. NOT because he feels he has done anything wrong or has guilt over all this...no way.

[JE]

In the last two paragraphs it says

Hans mos: At least we can exclude again that that which has been found belonged to Natalee

I respect the work of PRDV but he has made it impossible for us to start a similar action in the future.

Hi JE..Did he say anything more in the Audio recording? Thanks!!

I m listening to it now i ll let you know

Okay in a nutshell this is in the recording

Hans mos says: At the end of december Persistence found the cage. He was contacted about possibility of cloth being in the cage.(He doesn't mantion a skull just cloth)
In the first days of jan. as the seas were calmer a dive team from aruban police went to the spot again
(no mention of divers from Persistence)
Sample of cloth was taken and sent to FBI. tests took 1 month but did not match the dupilcate set of Natalee's clothing that the FBI was given by Beth Holloway
Reporter then asks if they get many new leads as a result of the PRDV show
Mos says: PRDV has received thousands and that his departement also got many and still does on a daily basis.
He adds that they have no need for speculations from people all over the world who are mostly not familiar with the case or the facts.
He wants to stick to facts only or hear from people that are eye witnesses.
Then he goes on about how PRDV has made it impossible for him to mount such an undercover operation in the future.
He says that of course they could have also done something with hidden microphones camera's etc.
He respects PRDV's work and says the way Patrick handled the situation is admirable but that since Patrick has a criminal record they never could have used him. (end of interview)

[dennisintn]

I gotta get back to work but I just HAD to comment on the article that has Joran in a psycho ward.  I say BS to this.  If true there is a reason but it isn't because he had a breakdown.  Why?

Because psychopaths have no feelings.  NONE.  Zilch.  Nada.  Zip. 

His ego is to big to be broken.  He never does anything wrong.  The rest of the world is flawed.

No way the Sporter had a breakdown.  My opine.  What say you? 

i agree with you.  if he's in a psychiatric care hospital, it's for substance abuse, major anger management problems, or the latest ploy to keep his butt out of jail.
dennisintn

[hotping]

In the last two paragraphs it says

Hans mos: At least we can exclude again that that which has been found belonged to Natalee

I respect the work of PRDV but he has made it impossible for us to start a similar action in the future.

Hi JE..Did he say anything more in the Audio recording? Thanks!!

I m listening to it now i ll let you know

Okay in a nutshell this is in the recording

Hans mos says: At the end of december Persistence found the cage. He was contacted about possibility of cloth being in the cage.(He doesn't mantion a skull just cloth)
In the first days of jan. as the seas were calmer a dive team from aruban police went to the spot again
(no mention of divers from Persistence)
Sample of cloth was taken and sent to FBI. tests took 1 month but did not match the dupilcate set of Natalee's clothing that the FBI was given by Beth Holloway
Reporter then asks if they get many new leads as a result of the PRDV show
Mos says: PRDV has received thousands and that his departement also got many and still does on a daily basis.
He adds that they have no need for speculations from people all over the world who are mostly not familiar with the case or the facts.
He wants to stick to facts only or hear from people that are eye witnesses.
Then he goes on about how PRDV has made it impossible for him to mount such an undercover operation in the future.
He says that of course they could have also done something with hidden microphones camera's etc.
He respects PRDV's work and says the way Patrick handled the situation is admirable but that since Patrick has a criminal record they never could have used him. (end of interview)

Thanks JE! 

[Magnolia]

Klaasend:

Local Bon Dia 02/27/2008 Local section page A3 Aruba news paper reports

Headline "Maybe He FLIPED" he is not himself no more

Joran has enter a Phychiatric Center in holland for treatment last week.



Well Well, this is a way that they a re going to play it now...

Thanks Caps.

I blame Paulus van der Sloot if his son has had a breakdown.

The Peter Devries' video recording spoke volumns to me.  I contend that it was Joran's attempt to come clean and ... reveal his role in the demise of Natalee Holloway but ... at the same time ... he felt compelled to continue the charade of distancing his father's participation in the coverup.

If Paulus van der Sloot ... though a misguided love for his son ... had not felt the need to shield his son from accepting personal responsibility for his role in the events encompassing the events that led to an eighteen year old American's demise ... the Natalee Holloway case would have been a faded memory.

Instead ... the burden placed on Joran van der Sloot at 17 years of age ... the burden of protecting his father ... implied that it was only a matter of time when the load was too great to carry and ... something had to give.

Janet

There's nothing in dutch newspapers about him being psychiatric clinic....

Maybe Bon Dia's ace reporter finally got a scoop.

Anita could have passed the info to her.

[Bearlyhere]

In the last two paragraphs it says

Hans mos: At least we can exclude again that that which has been found belonged to Natalee

I respect the work of PRDV but he has made it impossible for us to start a similar action in the future.

Hi JE..Did he say anything more in the Audio recording? Thanks!!

I m listening to it now i ll let you know

Okay in a nutshell this is in the recording

Hans mos says: At the end of december Persistence found the cage. He was contacted about possibility of cloth being in the cage.(He doesn't mantion a skull just cloth)
In the first days of jan. as the seas were calmer a dive team from aruban police went to the spot again
(no mention of divers from Persistence)
Sample of cloth was taken and sent to FBI. tests took 1 month but did not match the dupilcate set of Natalee's clothing that the FBI was given by Beth Holloway
Reporter then asks if they get many new leads as a result of the PRDV show
Mos says: PRDV has received thousands and that his departement also got many and still does on a daily basis.
He adds that they have no need for speculations from people all over the world who are mostly not familiar with the case or the facts.
He wants to stick to facts only or hear from people that are eye witnesses.
Then he goes on about how PRDV has made it impossible for him to mount such an undercover operation in the future.
He says that of course they could have also done something with hidden microphones camera's etc.
He respects PRDV's work and says the way Patrick handled the situation is admirable but that since Patrick has a criminal record they never could have used him. (end of interview)

#!  They have had years to do this and didn't.  Spin again. 

#2  We knew they would come up with some excuse.  Courts use snitches in prison all the time, and they have records or they
      wouldn't be in prison.  Spin again.

#3  He made you look bad.  No, strike that,  You have made yourselves look bad, he just showed you how it is done.

#4  Spin again.

#5  Game over.  You lose.

[Bearlyhere]

Klaasend:

Local Bon Dia 02/27/2008 Local section page A3 Aruba news paper reports

Headline "Maybe He FLIPED" he is not himself no more

Joran has enter a Phychiatric Center in holland for treatment last week.



Well Well, this is a way that they a re going to play it now...

Thanks Caps.

I blame Paulus van der Sloot if his son has had a breakdown.

The Peter Devries' video recording spoke volumns to me.  I contend that it was Joran's attempt to come clean and ... reveal his role in the demise of Natalee Holloway but ... at the same time ... he felt compelled to continue the charade of distancing his father's participation in the coverup.

If Paulus van der Sloot ... though a misguided love for his son ... had not felt the need to shield his son from accepting personal responsibility for his role in the events encompassing the events that led to an eighteen year old American's demise ... the Natalee Holloway case would have been a faded memory.

Instead ... the burden placed on Joran van der Sloot at 17 years of age ... the burden of protecting his father ... implied that it was only a matter of time when the load was too great to carry and ... something had to give.

Janet

There's nothing in dutch newspapers about him being psychiatric clinic....

Maybe Bon Dia's ace reporter finally got a scoop.

Anita could have passed the info to her.

The only thing Anita scoops is ice cream.

[Observer]

Thanks JE! I am curious do you have a opinion on Hans Mos and where this Investigation is headed? We were told they have 24 detectives actively working the case. Do you think this will ever be solved?

[CapsLockWizard]

Klaasend :

Is it sunday the big event in N.Y. about the ATA.

So the ATA director will be in Aruba... I wonder what the counter mesure they are planning agains the Monkeys attending the Convention....


Hmmmm.....what they have in store......

Lets check underground..

later

[Lala'sMom]

Hall Monitor Cynic here!  No way Joran has gone over the deep end...this entire
"mental" scenario was already floated a few weeks ago when Mos said Joran has a problem.  Doesn't anyone remember that?  Maybe it wasn't Mos, but I remember them trying to say Joran has that sociopathic type problem.  This shortly after he spilled his guts to Patrick. Joran is sitting somewhere..still laughing at how lucky he is. 

[klaasend]

TRAVEL SHOW - ST CHARLES MISSOURI

ST. LOUIS TRAVEL SHOW - MARCH 8-9, 2008
St. Charles Convention Center
Aruba Tourism Booth #61

http://vacation07.info/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=1784&Itemid=26

[klaasend]

Klaasend :

Is it sunday the big event in N.Y. about the ATA.

So the ATA director will be in Aruba... I wonder what the counter mesure they are planning agains the Monkeys attending the Convention....


Hmmmm.....what they have in store......

Lets check underground..

later

I believe they will be protesting on Saturday.  The even is for 3 days I think.

[Puzzler]

Klaasend:

Local Bon Dia 02/27/2008 Local section page A3 Aruba news paper reports

Headline "Maybe He FLIPED" he is not himself no more

Joran has enter a Phychiatric Center in holland for treatment last week.



Well Well, this is a way that they a re going to play it now...

Thanks Caps.

I blame Paulus van der Sloot if his son has had a breakdown.

The Peter Devries' video recording spoke volumns to me.  I contend that it was Joran's attempt to come clean and ... reveal his role in the demise of Natalee Holloway but ... at the same time ... he felt compelled to continue the charade of distancing his father's participation in the coverup.

If Paulus van der Sloot ... though a misguided love for his son ... had not felt the need to shield his son from accepting personal responsibility for his role in the events encompassing the events that led to an eighteen year old American's demise ... the Natalee Holloway case would have been a faded memory.

Instead ... the burden placed on Joran van der Sloot at 17 years of age ... the burden of protecting his father ... implied that it was only a matter of time when the load was too great to carry and ... something had to give.

Janet

There's nothing in dutch newspapers about him being psychiatric clinic....

Maybe Bon Dia's ace reporter finally got a scoop.

Anita could have passed the info to her.

The only thing Anita scoops is ice cream.

Yes, can't you just hear it now....

Daury learns from any number of his special sources that the FBI is testing stuff from the ocean.

Daury tells Taco and the two of them decide that the best thing for Joraaaan is to have him enter a mental facility (you know...just in case the Persistance really got lucky and found evidence).

Next...we'll be hearing that Joraaan was a troubled youth that can't be charged for any reason due to his being unstable at the time....

BUT....it's all okay now because he has been through treatment and he's mentally stable now. 

Probably...they put him in rehab for alcohol and drug abuse!!

My 2 cents....

[AZSunny]

Clothing not Natalee Holloway
Sander van Barneveld
27-02-2008
  Correspondent Jos de Roo in conversation with Hans Mos (5'54 ")
The kledingresten in January at sea in Aruba have been found, are not consistent with the clothes that the American scholiere Natalee Holloway's disappearance wore. This is the public prosecutor in Aruba. The Persistence research, which is funded by American donations, searches since late last year with scanning for traces of Holloway.

The results are kledingresten
Not missing Natalee
Holloway
In January the crew took a garment in a krabbenfuik. There was consciously sought to Aruba because stories doing the rounds that the body of Holloway in such a trap was stopped. Aruba has asked the FBI to investigate the textile, because the agency has a sample of the same type of material as the blouse that Natalee aanhad on the night of her disappearance in 2005. It is now revealed that the clothing of Natalee Holloway originated.

The Aruban Chief Public Justice, Hans Mos responding left on the outcome of the investigation. "There is in any case again ruled out that what was found - and whose duikploeg initially thought that it was 99 percent sure that there Natalee 'buried' was - not Natalee."

Hoofdofficier Mos was more pronounced on the role of journalist Peter R. De Vries has played in the investigation of main accused Joran van der Sloot. "I have great respect for the work of De Vries, but he has his work impossible for us to meet the future such action."

Audio Recording in Dutch
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/Car20080227-Holloway-kleding

In the last two paragraphs it says

Hans mos: At least we can exclude again that that which has been found belonged to Natalee

I respect the work of PRDV but he has made it impossible for us to start a similar action in the future.

Thanks, JE!

When was he going to take that action, when Joran is in a nursing home?

What similar action??? Recording him?? I thought they couldn't do that and use it as evidence?  weird response from him.

[dennisintn]

In the last two paragraphs it says

Hans mos: At least we can exclude again that that which has been found belonged to Natalee

I respect the work of PRDV but he has made it impossible for us to start a similar action in the future.

Hi JE..Did he say anything more in the Audio recording? Thanks!!

I m listening to it now i ll let you know

Okay in a nutshell this is in the recording

Hans mos says: At the end of december Persistence found the cage. He was contacted about possibility of cloth being in the cage.(He doesn't mantion a skull just cloth)
In the first days of jan. as the seas were calmer a dive team from aruban police went to the spot again
(no mention of divers from Persistence)
Sample of cloth was taken and sent to FBI. tests took 1 month but did not match the dupilcate set of Natalee's clothing that the FBI was given by Beth Holloway
Reporter then asks if they get many new leads as a result of the PRDV show
Mos says: PRDV has received thousands and that his departement also got many and still does on a daily basis.
He adds that they have no need for speculations from people all over the world who are mostly not familiar with the case or the facts.
He wants to stick to facts only or hear from people that are eye witnesses.
Then he goes on about how PRDV has made it impossible for him to mount such an undercover operation in the future.
He says that of course they could have also done something with hidden microphones camera's etc.
He respects PRDV's work and says the way Patrick handled the situation is admirable but that since Patrick has a criminal record they never could have used him. (end of interview)

Thanks JE! 

boy, that sounds familiar.  "we COULD have done something with cameras and microphone".  "we're thinking about searching the area that was reported 3 mos. ago".  "we COULD have asked those question when they were jail".  "we're thinking about writing down the questions we want the mb kids to answer that we should have asked a year ago".  an endless stream of could have, would have, should have, and we'll get around to it excuses for everything that's brought up.  and it's always somebody else's fault why they didn't.
dennisintn

[Dayhiker]

In the last two paragraphs it says

Hans mos: At least we can exclude again that that which has been found belonged to Natalee

I respect the work of PRDV but he has made it impossible for us to start a similar action in the future.

Hi JE..Did he say anything more in the Audio recording? Thanks!!

I respect the work of PRDV but he has made it impossible for us to start a similar action in the future.

When were they gonna start there surveillance??year 2010.Mos is not our guy.Do these people even think???Do they understand how stupid they sound.They shoulda been doing this all along.Not 3-5yrs later.WTH...


Keepthefaith

When Peter's show was first released we were led to believe the Dutch do not allow such undercover operations. What gives here? Is Hans Less spinning?

[kippy]

He is probably in a psych ward for his own protection.

Psych ward=Cozy little spa retreat, cell phone, internet connection with a spiffy new laptop, waiting staff, PVDS bringing him in a little weed...you  get the picture.

[jehnifer]

I am so suspicious of anything and everything that happens about this case.  Regarding the fabric found in the crab trap that does not match what Beth gave them...How would Beth have any fabric from clothing that Nataleee wore the night she disappeared?  Pardon me if this was already covered or if the answer is obvious.