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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08  (Read 533549 times)
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #740 on: February 29, 2008, 01:40:38 PM »

Good Morning Monkeys...

I have NOT...and will NOT be sending anything to anyone...sorry to have opened a can of worms...was not my intention at all.

I WON'T be making anymore phone calls to anyone...am going back into lurk mode...sorry for any bad feelings I might have caused to anyone.

Justice for Natalee.

Destiny

I've been reading this passage of conflicting ideas, opinions and determinations since yesterday...... and wish to chime in, FWIW:

Destiny, please do not lurk in the background; your optimism and goodwill and cheer is much needed NOW as there appears to a potential rift in the MonkeyBunk.

To the others who have given so much and opined so strongly, I ask of you, indeed all of you: Please do not tear this group into factions. Stay united and focused on the goal, not the shadows. The enemy is not SM or its members. The enemy is truthlessness. Those who would spread it will attempt to wreak havoc here. They will use us to break ourselves, IF WE LET THEM.

Let's not let them.  It's more fun to watch them break themselves!


that is all.....

Excellent points, teacup.  I like the way you think!!
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Tater
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« Reply #741 on: February 29, 2008, 01:42:13 PM »

Are these the latest developments:

Persistance is out of funds and search will end in a few days?

The underwater photos were authentic but there were no remains inside the cage?

Joran is either in hiding or hospitalized?

Mos is doing nothing but PR?

No breaks in the case since PDV show?






That's about the gist of it.

1. I'm believing God will provide the funds
2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's
3. Yes
4.Yes
5. There could be,we just don't know about them,yet..

2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's

Well....now that's just not possible.  Did not the esteemed Hans Mos tell us that all killings in Aruba were solved?  Oops, on second thought, maybe you are right.  It's probably just some fool who didn't have the guts to gut himelf and set itself on fire that killed himself by crawling into a crab trap and dropping himself into the ocean.
Well, at the risk of making Ocean Explorer angry ( no disrespect intended - I GREATLY admire, respect, and appreciate this unbelievable crew, et al) -- my own opinion is that they INTENDED for this discovery to remain "under wraps" until all "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed. They shared the evidence with Dave/Robin -- and it got distributed BEFORE they were ready. I for one THINK the contents of that cage are exactly what we are all hoping for.




If this were true wreck,then why would they still be accepting donations to continue looking?Why would Tim Miller say calling Dave and Beth back to tell them no it wasn't what they were looking for,the hardest call he ever had to make?These are two of the haunting questions though I must admit that there was a very troublesome spot for me in the Dateline piece that I still don't understand.When the divers went down and looked in,they immediatly put two thumbs down to the camera.Ok,they saw in there what we saw later,correct?So,why the thumbs down?Why not thumbs up?We can see the remains of a body in there which is clear on the still photo's.Wasn't there also an Aruban diver down there with a member of the Persistence? Questions and more questions...


My opinion is that they are "continuing" to look until 100% DNA verification test is complete and also (my conjecture only) is to continue to try to get those involved to "trip up." They are looking to convict the "guilty" parties and still lack the final slam dunk evidence. If they report their findings now -- they may lose that "upper hand."  I've felt this way for about a week and a half.

I realize they are not going to be happy with my conjecture -- but it is only that -- my conjecture at this point.

Your conjecture is just as good as anyone elses wreck!!! I for one hope you are right as it does seem plausible...Thanks for answering me..Smile
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the big hammer
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« Reply #742 on: February 29, 2008, 01:44:39 PM »

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.
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Destiny
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« Reply #743 on: February 29, 2008, 01:47:13 PM »

Are these the latest developments:

Persistance is out of funds and search will end in a few days?

The underwater photos were authentic but there were no remains inside the cage?

Joran is either in hiding or hospitalized?

Mos is doing nothing but PR?

No breaks in the case since PDV show?






That's about the gist of it.

1. I'm believing God will provide the funds
2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's
3. Yes
4.Yes
5. There could be,we just don't know about them,yet..

2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's

Well....now that's just not possible.  Did not the esteemed Hans Mos tell us that all killings in Aruba were solved?  Oops, on second thought, maybe you are right.  It's probably just some fool who didn't have the guts to gut himelf and set itself on fire that killed himself by crawling into a crab trap and dropping himself into the ocean.
Well, at the risk of making Ocean Explorer angry ( no disrespect intended - I GREATLY admire, respect, and appreciate this unbelievable crew, et al) -- my own opinion is that they INTENDED for this discovery to remain "under wraps" until all "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed. They shared the evidence with Dave/Robin -- and it got distributed BEFORE they were ready. I for one THINK the contents of that cage are exactly what we are all hoping for.




If this were true wreck,then why would they still be accepting donations to continue looking?Why would Tim Miller say calling Dave and Beth back to tell them no it wasn't what they were looking for,the hardest call he ever had to make?These are two of the haunting questions though I must admit that there was a very troublesome spot for me in the Dateline piece that I still don't understand.When the divers went down and looked in,they immediatly put two thumbs down to the camera.Ok,they saw in there what we saw later,correct?So,why the thumbs down?Why not thumbs up?We can see the remains of a body in there which is clear on the still photo's.Wasn't there also an Aruban diver down there with a member of the Persistence? Questions and more questions...



I think, what we saw...were before and after photos...you fill in the blanks Wink   We were not meant to see the before pix...at least not yet...
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
Hotshot
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« Reply #744 on: February 29, 2008, 01:51:00 PM »

Good Morning Monkeys...

I have NOT...and will NOT be sending anything to anyone...sorry to have opened a can of worms...was not my intention at all.

I WON'T be making anymore phone calls to anyone...am going back into lurk mode...sorry for any bad feelings I might have caused to anyone.

Justice for Natalee.

Destiny
Destiny, Dont go in lurk mode.  You have good intentions.  Just because you had a few bad replies here does not mean "give up".  Hell I get it ALL the time.  You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.  I had several flame me for 2 days, that didn't know anything of what was "really" happening.  Your good at what you do, DO IT!  I personally would say, Don't sent the picture, the Persistance is on things right now.  Give them their time.  Although I am upset with them about to bail out and not look at the targets, again who am I?  Oh I'm sure someones gonna flame me on this one.  But go ahead...I am used to the abuse.  That is why I have been in lurk mode, but no more.  Keep up the good work Destiny!
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Tater
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« Reply #745 on: February 29, 2008, 01:54:22 PM »

Are these the latest developments:

Persistance is out of funds and search will end in a few days?

The underwater photos were authentic but there were no remains inside the cage?

Joran is either in hiding or hospitalized?

Mos is doing nothing but PR?

No breaks in the case since PDV show?






That's about the gist of it.

1. I'm believing God will provide the funds
2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's
3. Yes
4.Yes
5. There could be,we just don't know about them,yet..

2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's

Well....now that's just not possible.  Did not the esteemed Hans Mos tell us that all killings in Aruba were solved?  Oops, on second thought, maybe you are right.  It's probably just some fool who didn't have the guts to gut himelf and set itself on fire that killed himself by crawling into a crab trap and dropping himself into the ocean.
Well, at the risk of making Ocean Explorer angry ( no disrespect intended - I GREATLY admire, respect, and appreciate this unbelievable crew, et al) -- my own opinion is that they INTENDED for this discovery to remain "under wraps" until all "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed. They shared the evidence with Dave/Robin -- and it got distributed BEFORE they were ready. I for one THINK the contents of that cage are exactly what we are all hoping for.




If this were true wreck,then why would they still be accepting donations to continue looking?Why would Tim Miller say calling Dave and Beth back to tell them no it wasn't what they were looking for,the hardest call he ever had to make?These are two of the haunting questions though I must admit that there was a very troublesome spot for me in the Dateline piece that I still don't understand.When the divers went down and looked in,they immediatly put two thumbs down to the camera.Ok,they saw in there what we saw later,correct?So,why the thumbs down?Why not thumbs up?We can see the remains of a body in there which is clear on the still photo's.Wasn't there also an Aruban diver down there with a member of the Persistence? Questions and more questions...



I think, what we saw...were before and after photos...you fill in the blanks Wink   We were not meant to see the before pix...at least not yet...

Destiny,now I'm really confused.Geesh I wish sometimes we could private message folks on this forum.I'm sorry,but I'm pulling a real duh huh here in my brain.Before and after pics? The thumbs down part would be the before and the still's the after?Help?
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         and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Miss Scarlet
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« Reply #746 on: February 29, 2008, 01:54:44 PM »

Fellow Primates,

I don't post much.  Just try to stay out of the way.  Lately, I should say 'fray.'  Anyway, I feel the need to speak. 

Red, much respect and admiration for all you have done for Natalee, her family, their plight.  Indeed you know so much more than any of us here, including those on the Persistence.  Likewise, there are people, good people, on that ship that no doubt know things you do not know.  In fact, there is good reason for each to know aspects of this case the other party is not privy to.  That is not cause for attack.  The Persistence has spent alot of money in their quest for answers, just as you have, as well as many others.  Some have given only time, for that is all they have.  Some have given only money because they have no extra time.  Some have only offered prayers, for that is all they can currently provide.  The respective gifts each have brought are no less valuable than the gifts others have contributed.  God has a master plan.  Will we all get to see it in our lifetime?  We don't know that yet.  But He brought us all together, each with our own unique contributions, for His purpose.  Let's not get down and dirty and feel like what one has done is more important than what someone else has done.  Yes, the internet has been instrumental in keeping this case on the forefront, but it is also a double edged sword that has hindered aspects of it too.  No doubt Beth has had to keep from throwing up when she has had to cozy up to some of the press to keep the story out there.  We do what we have to.

OceanExplorer, you as well as everyone on the Persistence are invaluable to say the very least.  Men willing to donate time, services, boats, personal fortunes, my goodness - the list is endless.  For more than a year I prayed for someone to come forward to do, to provide, what each of you have willingly offered.  Again, God has brought us all together for his purpose.  While I am thrilled Dateline had their show, I had hoped nothing would have been televised until after y'all were done with God's work and had safely returned home.  But He apparently had another plan.  We still don't know that plan, but it is exciting to see his handiwork. 

Clearly Aruba has done some terrible things, but I don't think we should make blanket assumptions that everyone on the island is vile.  Evil comes in all sizes, shapes and colors.  Evil does not discriminate. 

As for racism, it is a concept I have never been able to wrap my head around.  I have never been able to understand it.  I have never been able to be a party to it.  We all want and have the same goals for our families, our loved ones.  We want and need safety, security, housing, clothes, food, education, etc.  Please don't ever look at the color of one's skin and decide their intentions based on shade, or say, "remember when" . . . just try to look at people like a pack of Juicy Fruit gum.  All those colorful sticks and flavors happily wrapped in one package and lo and behold - they all taste great!

I don't know any of you personally, but I can honestly say that because God loves me and Christ died for me and has forgiven me, I love all of you.  No exceptions!
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wreck
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« Reply #747 on: February 29, 2008, 01:59:29 PM »

Tot:
Quote
Destiny,now I'm really confused.Geesh I wish sometimes we could private message folks on this forum.I'm sorry,but I'm pulling a real duh huh here in my brain.Before and after pics? The thumbs down part would be the before and the still's the after?Help

I know I'm sounding like a nut -- but what if those "pics" of the divers we saw on "Datline" giving a "thumbs down" were staged?
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martini
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« Reply #748 on: February 29, 2008, 02:04:37 PM »

United we stand, divided we fall.
Aesop
Greek slave & fable author (620 BC - 560 BC)

Special Notice:
The dedicated ocean search for Natalee Holloway has been underway since mid-November, 2007. What began in Louisiana during mobilization now culminating in Aruba, the search has utilized some of the best search equipment and personnel in the world. To date, approximately 900 miles of sonar data has been collected covering a geographic area 80% the size of Aruba. The search has required a painstakingly slow approach which in the end leaves no stone unturned.

Although slow, this approach is extremely effective in marine search and recovery. Since the beginning, the search has been privately funded by Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions who remarkably and gracefully accepted the financial burden when requested by Texas Equusearch and Natalee's parents. John Silvetti of Marine Surveys, Greg Landry of Offshore Innovative Solutions, Erik McGuire of Seatronics, along with Agiosat and Wilkens Weather Service came beside Louis to conduct this humanitarian effort. To put this search effort in financial perspective, an equivalent search conducted for industry would involve costs well exceeding several million dollars. This project has been conducted for about 35 cents on the dollar, with costs still exceeding a million dollars.

Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org
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Tater
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« Reply #749 on: February 29, 2008, 02:04:44 PM »

Fellow Primates,

I don't post much.  Just try to stay out of the way.  Lately, I should say 'fray.'  Anyway, I feel the need to speak. 

Red, much respect and admiration for all you have done for Natalee, her family, their plight.  Indeed you know so much more than any of us here, including those on the Persistence.  Likewise, there are people, good people, on that ship that no doubt know things you do not know.  In fact, there is good reason for each to know aspects of this case the other party is not privy to.  That is not cause for attack.  The Persistence has spent alot of money in their quest for answers, just as you have, as well as many others.  Some have given only time, for that is all they have.  Some have given only money because they have no extra time.  Some have only offered prayers, for that is all they can currently provide.  The respective gifts each have brought are no less valuable than the gifts others have contributed.  God has a master plan.  Will we all get to see it in our lifetime?  We don't know that yet.  But He brought us all together, each with our own unique contributions, for His purpose.  Let's not get down and dirty and feel like what one has done is more important than what someone else has done.  Yes, the internet has been instrumental in keeping this case on the forefront, but it is also a double edged sword that has hindered aspects of it too.  No doubt Beth has had to keep from throwing up when she has had to cozy up to some of the press to keep the story out there.  We do what we have to.

OceanExplorer, you as well as everyone on the Persistence are invaluable to say the very least.  Men willing to donate time, services, boats, personal fortunes, my goodness - the list is endless.  For more than a year I prayed for someone to come forward to do, to provide, what each of you have willingly offered.  Again, God has brought us all together for his purpose.  While I am thrilled Dateline had their show, I had hoped nothing would have been televised until after y'all were done with God's work and had safely returned home.  But He apparently had another plan.  We still don't know that plan, but it is exciting to see his handiwork. 

Clearly Aruba has done some terrible things, but I don't think we should make blanket assumptions that everyone on the island is vile.  Evil comes in all sizes, shapes and colors.  Evil does not discriminate. 

As for racism, it is a concept I have never been able to wrap my head around.  I have never been able to understand it.  I have never been able to be a party to it.  We all want and have the same goals for our families, our loved ones.  We want and need safety, security, housing, clothes, food, education, etc.  Please don't ever look at the color of one's skin and decide their intentions based on shade, or say, "remember when" . . . just try to look at people like a pack of Juicy Fruit gum.  All those colorful sticks and flavors happily wrapped in one package and lo and behold - they all taste great!

I don't know any of you personally, but I can honestly say that because God loves me and Christ died for me and has forgiven me, I love all of you.  No exceptions!

I'll Amen that for sure!!!! Isn't God good? Smile I love you too...
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         and lean not unto thine own understanding.
snoopy
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« Reply #750 on: February 29, 2008, 02:05:37 PM »



Miss Scarlet............Post of the day!!  Thank you.
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Tater
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« Reply #751 on: February 29, 2008, 02:08:20 PM »

Tot:
Quote
Destiny,now I'm really confused.Geesh I wish sometimes we could private message folks on this forum.I'm sorry,but I'm pulling a real duh huh here in my brain.Before and after pics? The thumbs down part would be the before and the still's the after?Help

I know I'm sounding like a nut -- but what if those "pics" of the divers we saw on "Datline" giving a "thumbs down" were staged?

For what purpose?Why even have Dateline on the boat in the first place if it was all going to be staged.Do you mean thumbs down until they(Dateline) were gone?
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  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart;
         and lean not unto thine own understanding.
private eye
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« Reply #752 on: February 29, 2008, 02:24:34 PM »

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.

That charge is related to the harm to the investigation, but what about the intended harm and the actual harm to the 2 innocent men? And if Joran can file civil suits against Peter, why have those 2 men not filed suit against Paulus? Maybe our efforts should be directed towards helping those 2 men and the wife of Rene, the man who was beheaded.

 A Columbian necktie is a message of some sort, as is a man hanging himself and being found dead with his hand in his own pocket. It is physically impossible to hang one's self and keep one hand in your own pocket.

Does the neck mean to be quiet and the hand in the epocket mean to mind your own business?
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klaasend
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« Reply #753 on: February 29, 2008, 02:38:13 PM »

FYI - Dugga has temporarily turned off avatars again.  Seems the server was getting overloaded.  Wonder if there's some kind of breaking news we aren't aware of?
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caesu
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« Reply #754 on: February 29, 2008, 02:38:20 PM »

The Dutch were racists before the first African slave ever set foot in America. We are dealing with the inventors of Apartheid here, guys. They perfected and refined racism to a fine science in South Africa as far back as the early 1700's.

Does that mean that all Dutch today are racists, OF COURSE NOT. But it makes it hard for them to call Alabamians the spawn of Hitler, etc.

I'm NOT a native Alabamian, (and they certainly have their faults at times, like during football season Wink ) but here I stick up for them for being a tough people who refuse to take "no" for an answer.

nice one. i don't see what all this generalizing based in history has to do with anything.
i could start for example about the US constitution article 1 section 9 line 1 or the 13th amendement or the jim crow laws till 1964.
but i don't see the relevance of this at all to get the truth out what happened to natalee.

only thing that could be relevant is that aruba didn't have a slave plantation history like curaçao.
that's why aruba is so different from the antilles.
and there is some racism towards black descendants who moved to aruba in 1928 to work in lago refinery.
that could explain some things, for example why curaçao was so angry when jvds was portraited as a darker skinned gut on the 'most wanted' program.

i don't allow myself to get offended by anything here. i don't really care about ignorant comments at all.
but i think the dutch can play a major part in putting pressure on aruba.
if other dutchies do get offended by generalizing comments that won't help.
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Destiny
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« Reply #755 on: February 29, 2008, 02:42:53 PM »

FYI - Dugga has temporarily turned off avatars again.  Seems the server was getting overloaded.  Wonder if there's some kind of breaking news we aren't aware of?

Thanks for letting us know Klaasend...I couldn't access the server for a little while...has anyone heard any news out of Aruba today?
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
JE
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« Reply #756 on: February 29, 2008, 02:45:59 PM »

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.

That charge is related to the harm to the investigation, but what about the intended harm and the actual harm to the 2 innocent men? And if Joran can file civil suits against Peter, why have those 2 men not filed suit against Paulus? Maybe our efforts should be directed towards helping those 2 men and the wife of Rene, the man who was beheaded.

 A Columbian necktie is a message of some sort, as is a man hanging himself and being found dead with his hand in his own pocket. It is physically impossible to hang one's self and keep one hand in your own pocket.

Does the neck mean to be quiet and the hand in the epocket mean to mind your own business?

A Colombian necktie, also known as the Italian necktie, Sicilian necktie, or Cuban necktie, is a method of execution where the victim's neck is slashed (with a knife or other sharp object) and their tongue is pulled out through the open wound. It was a popular method of killing during the Colombian history period called La Violencia that started in 1948 after the leader Jorge Eliecer Gaitan was murdered.

The Colombian Necktie is sometimes erroneously credited as having been invented by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar, but this infamous method of killing was already present since 1950, during La Violencia in Colombia's civil war, it was performed on enemies as psychological warfare meant to scare and intimidate those who later encountered the body
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klaasend
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« Reply #757 on: February 29, 2008, 02:49:04 PM »

FYI - Dugga has temporarily turned off avatars again.  Seems the server was getting overloaded.  Wonder if there's some kind of breaking news we aren't aware of?

Thanks for letting us know Klaasend...I couldn't access the server for a little while...has anyone heard any news out of Aruba today?

I haven't seen any news.
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littlebuddy598
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« Reply #758 on: February 29, 2008, 02:50:27 PM »

ala_gunslinger I forgot about Ruben Studdard.
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martini
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« Reply #759 on: February 29, 2008, 02:51:49 PM »

FYI - Dugga has temporarily turned off avatars again.  Seems the server was getting overloaded.  Wonder if there's some kind of breaking news we aren't aware of?

Thanks for letting us know Klaasend...I couldn't access the server for a little while...has anyone heard any news out of Aruba today?

I haven't seen any news.

I have not been able to get my online news from NA since Tuesday~ 
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