Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08

[private eye]

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.

That charge is related to the harm to the investigation, but what about the intended harm and the actual harm to the 2 innocent men? And if Joran can file civil suits against Peter, why have those 2 men not filed suit against Paulus? Maybe our efforts should be directed towards helping those 2 men and the wife of Rene, the man who was beheaded.

 A Columbian necktie is a message of some sort, as is a man hanging himself and being found dead with his hand in his own pocket. It is physically impossible to hang one's self and keep one hand in your own pocket.

Does the neck mean to be quiet and the hand in the epocket mean to mind your own business?

A Colombian necktie, also known as the Italian necktie, Sicilian necktie, or Cuban necktie, is a method of execution where the victim's neck is slashed (with a knife or other sharp object) and their tongue is pulled out through the open wound. It was a popular method of killing during the Colombian history period called La Violencia that started in 1948 after the leader Jorge Eliecer Gaitan was murdered.

The Colombian Necktie is sometimes erroneously credited as having been invented by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar, but this infamous method of killing was already present since 1950, during La Violencia in Colombia's civil war, it was performed on enemies as psychological warfare meant to scare and intimidate those who later encountered the body

Whats with the hand in the pocket after hanging ones self ? That simply is impossible to do. Someone has to set the hand in the pocket afterwards.

[Peaches]

Miss Scarlet............Post of the day!!  Thank you.

Absolutely!

[Tater]

Someone in the field of metals would be able to tell us or at least give an estimate as to how long that trap has been down there by looking at the corrision on it.I still don't see a small boat carrying it out to sea though unless the body was exchanged from a smaller boat onto a much bigger craft.If by chance it is Natalee,we can certainly rule out her being dumped the night in question though.This would have taken time to plan and get connections made.

[JE]

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.

That charge is related to the harm to the investigation, but what about the intended harm and the actual harm to the 2 innocent men? And if Joran can file civil suits against Peter, why have those 2 men not filed suit against Paulus? Maybe our efforts should be directed towards helping those 2 men and the wife of Rene, the man who was beheaded.

 A Columbian necktie is a message of some sort, as is a man hanging himself and being found dead with his hand in his own pocket. It is physically impossible to hang one's self and keep one hand in your own pocket.

Does the neck mean to be quiet and the hand in the epocket mean to mind your own business?

A Colombian necktie, also known as the Italian necktie, Sicilian necktie, or Cuban necktie, is a method of execution where the victim's neck is slashed (with a knife or other sharp object) and their tongue is pulled out through the open wound. It was a popular method of killing during the Colombian history period called La Violencia that started in 1948 after the leader Jorge Eliecer Gaitan was murdered.

The Colombian Necktie is sometimes erroneously credited as having been invented by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar, but this infamous method of killing was already present since 1950, during La Violencia in Colombia's civil war, it was performed on enemies as psychological warfare meant to scare and intimidate those who later encountered the body

Whats with the hand in the pocket after hanging ones self ? That simply is impossible to do. Someone has to set the hand in the pocket afterwards.

I think it is along the same lines as the colombian necktie. Maybe for the initiated it is some sort of signature as to who killed the person that committed the "suicide". It s a warning just like the necktie

[Dihannah1]

LOL  Meeeeeeeeoooooooooooow....Wreck...I own a very eclectic niche resort...you might be very surprised what this *Kitty* has up her paw

You want the whole Honor Guard of the King of Norway?... On their last visit...they brought me the most beautiful wool sweater hand knit by one of their Mothers...

completely OT.... Destiny...what is an eclectic niche resort??  and do I want to come there

Sunny...ask Klaasend...when she is not so very busy for my email addy...I'll send ya the link

Oh! Oh!  I want the link too!

It just amazes me the huge diversity, intelligence and resources here! 

[Peaches]

LOL  Meeeeeeeeoooooooooooow....Wreck...I own a very eclectic niche resort...you might be very surprised what this *Kitty* has up her paw

You want the whole Honor Guard of the King of Norway?... On their last visit...they brought me the most beautiful wool sweater hand knit by one of their Mothers...

completely OT.... Destiny...what is an eclectic niche resort??  and do I want to come there

Sunny...ask Klaasend...when she is not so very busy for my email addy...I'll send ya the link

Oh! Oh!  I want the link too!

It just amazes me the huge diversity, intelligence and resources here! 

Klaas, could you send me Destiny's email please?  hotmail is good. thanks.

[Rob]

BTW, if that IS a body in the cage, and it isn't Natalee... who is it?

that really is the question, isn't it?

Hi sb 

I believe that is why Mos made his little statement yesterday or the day before.....
That all murder's in Aruba in the last five years had been solved.
He was not defending the Police Dept he was accounting for bodies.

whoa Magnolia, good thinking!

He really doesn't know what's been going on on Aruba now does he? What about Max DeVries? I guess they have it classified as an accident... but why keep the files from Yvonne? That makes no sense.And why didn't they really look at David Stacey (age 53 at the time) and his nutty 31 year old adopted son?

I can't see too many ways to get into a trap and out to sea unless it's murder. ---> that just me.

*BTW Max DeVries is missing from the south end of the island. 6 miles down range from where they were last seen and 6 miles out. So, it's highly unlikely it would be Max in that trap. *(if there is someone in there)*

It doesn't explain what happened to Buddy Larson or Gary Makings. Makings was supposedly scuba diving when he was last seen.

Another point I have been meaning to make - all of the people we know are missing does not take into account people we are unaware of or people unreported or people from South America.

[Miss Scarlet]

FYI - Dugga has temporarily turned off avatars again.  Seems the server was getting overloaded.  Wonder if there's some kind of breaking news we aren't aware of?

Should I be getting a complex?  It seems as though this 'problem' occurs after I decide to post.   

I thought my avatar was so cute too!   

[private eye]

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.

That charge is related to the harm to the investigation, but what about the intended harm and the actual harm to the 2 innocent men? And if Joran can file civil suits against Peter, why have those 2 men not filed suit against Paulus? Maybe our efforts should be directed towards helping those 2 men and the wife of Rene, the man who was beheaded.

 A Columbian necktie is a message of some sort, as is a man hanging himself and being found dead with his hand in his own pocket. It is physically impossible to hang one's self and keep one hand in your own pocket.

Does the neck mean to be quiet and the hand in the epocket mean to mind your own business?

A Colombian necktie, also known as the Italian necktie, Sicilian necktie, or Cuban necktie, is a method of execution where the victim's neck is slashed (with a knife or other sharp object) and their tongue is pulled out through the open wound. It was a popular method of killing during the Colombian history period called La Violencia that started in 1948 after the leader Jorge Eliecer Gaitan was murdered.

The Colombian Necktie is sometimes erroneously credited as having been invented by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar, but this infamous method of killing was already present since 1950, during La Violencia in Colombia's civil war, it was performed on enemies as psychological warfare meant to scare and intimidate those who later encountered the body

Whats with the hand in the pocket after hanging ones self ? That simply is impossible to do. Someone has to set the hand in the pocket afterwards.

I think it is along the same lines as the colombian necktie. Maybe for the initiated it is some sort of signature as to who killed the person that committed the "suicide". It s a warning just like the necktie

Then Aruba is simply an extension of the violent wilds of Columbia with a little store front that is a prop for a touism destination. They govern by violence.

[Rob]

Do you guys remember the case were the ship washed up? It had left the coast of Africa like 3 or 4 months earlier and there was a dead man on board? IIRC the coroner on Aruba did the autopsy and he ruled it was natural causes... when the body was returned home a second autopsy was done and it was determined that the man died of strangulation IIRC.

And the same coroner did the autopsy on the dead American at the mill when I found the picture of the white van. Also, natural causes.

They don't seem to get it right too often. 

[Destiny]

Someone in the field of metals would be able to tell us or at least give an estimate as to how long that trap has been down there by looking at the corrision on it.I still don't see a small boat carrying it out to sea though unless the body was exchanged from a smaller boat onto a much bigger craft.If by chance it is Natalee,we can certainly rule out her being dumped the night in question though.This would have taken time to plan and get connections made.

From my sport diving experience...the growth on the trap is around 2-ish years....FWIW....and MOHO.

[JE]

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.

That charge is related to the harm to the investigation, but what about the intended harm and the actual harm to the 2 innocent men? And if Joran can file civil suits against Peter, why have those 2 men not filed suit against Paulus? Maybe our efforts should be directed towards helping those 2 men and the wife of Rene, the man who was beheaded.

 A Columbian necktie is a message of some sort, as is a man hanging himself and being found dead with his hand in his own pocket. It is physically impossible to hang one's self and keep one hand in your own pocket.

Does the neck mean to be quiet and the hand in the epocket mean to mind your own business?

A Colombian necktie, also known as the Italian necktie, Sicilian necktie, or Cuban necktie, is a method of execution where the victim's neck is slashed (with a knife or other sharp object) and their tongue is pulled out through the open wound. It was a popular method of killing during the Colombian history period called La Violencia that started in 1948 after the leader Jorge Eliecer Gaitan was murdered.

The Colombian Necktie is sometimes erroneously credited as having been invented by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar, but this infamous method of killing was already present since 1950, during La Violencia in Colombia's civil war, it was performed on enemies as psychological warfare meant to scare and intimidate those who later encountered the body

Whats with the hand in the pocket after hanging ones self ? That simply is impossible to do. Someone has to set the hand in the pocket afterwards.

I think it is along the same lines as the colombian necktie. Maybe for the initiated it is some sort of signature as to who killed the person that committed the "suicide". It s a warning just like the necktie

Then Aruba is simply an extension of the violent wilds of Columbia with a little store front that is a prop for a touism destination. They govern by violence.

Werent the people found hanging with the hands in their pockets journalists? I read about it a long time ago can't recall exactly. Maybe they were doing a story on  individuals that don't think twice about delivering a clear message to keep out of their business.

[Magnolia]

BTW, if that IS a body in the cage, and it isn't Natalee... who is it?

that really is the question, isn't it?

Hi sb 

I believe that is why Mos made his little statement yesterday or the day before.....
That all murder's in Aruba in the last five years had been solved.
He was not defending the Police Dept he was accounting for bodies.

whoa Magnolia, good thinking!

He really doesn't know what's been going on on Aruba now does he? What about Max DeVries? I guess they have it classified as an accident... but why keep the files from Yvonne? That makes no sense.And why didn't they really look at David Stacey (age 53 at the time) and his nutty 31 year old adopted son?

I can't see too many ways to get into a trap and out to sea unless it's murder. ---> that just me.

*BTW Max DeVries is missing from the south end of the island. 6 miles down range from where they were last seen and 6 miles out. So, it's highly unlikely it would be Max in that trap. *(if there is someone in there)*

It doesn't explain what happened to Buddy Larson or Gary Makings. Makings was supposedly scuba diving when he was last seen.

Another point I have been meaning to make - all of the people we know are missing does not take into account people we are unaware of or people unreported or people from South America.

Mos was called out to the Persistence.  He knows that a body...somebody's body....
was found.
The official announcement from Rudy Croes just said that the fabric did not match
Natalee's shirt that she was wearing.
Art Wood, on Dana's radio show, said that DNA was found.
There is a lot here that we don't know yet.
There is stuff happening because Kyle said that he knows what is happening
and doesn't have to guess.
The beach patrol officer that Destiny talked with last night said that things were
in a stew.

[Tater]

Someone in the field of metals would be able to tell us or at least give an estimate as to how long that trap has been down there by looking at the corrision on it.I still don't see a small boat carrying it out to sea though unless the body was exchanged from a smaller boat onto a much bigger craft.If by chance it is Natalee,we can certainly rule out her being dumped the night in question though.This would have taken time to plan and get connections made.

From my sport diving experience...the growth on the trap is around 2-ish years....FWIW....and MOHO.

Thankyou Destiny! Would a trap this size move around on the bottom of the ocean due to currents or maybe bad storms?

[Destiny]

Someone in the field of metals would be able to tell us or at least give an estimate as to how long that trap has been down there by looking at the corrision on it.I still don't see a small boat carrying it out to sea though unless the body was exchanged from a smaller boat onto a much bigger craft.If by chance it is Natalee,we can certainly rule out her being dumped the night in question though.This would have taken time to plan and get connections made.

From my sport diving experience...the growth on the trap is around 2-ish years....FWIW....and MOHO.

Thankyou Destiny! Would a trap this size move around on the bottom of the ocean due to currents or maybe bad storms?

That would depend on many variables....but with the size and weight...factor in the material it's made of....and that it is laying flat, on a flat bottom...and that water can run through it...I really don't see it moving any, if at all.  JMOO

[MumInOhio]

JE...here is a link with info on the journalist and the camerman.Post 85

******* has a lot more info on this.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.80

[Tater]

Someone in the field of metals would be able to tell us or at least give an estimate as to how long that trap has been down there by looking at the corrision on it.I still don't see a small boat carrying it out to sea though unless the body was exchanged from a smaller boat onto a much bigger craft.If by chance it is Natalee,we can certainly rule out her being dumped the night in question though.This would have taken time to plan and get connections made.

From my sport diving experience...the growth on the trap is around 2-ish years....FWIW....and MOHO.

Thankyou Destiny! Would a trap this size move around on the bottom of the ocean due to currents or maybe bad storms?

That would depend on many variables....but with the size and weight...factor in the material it's made of....and that it is laying flat, on a flat bottom...and that water can run through it...I really don't see it moving any, if at all.  JMOO

Thankyou again! See how important you are around here Destiny?I shudder at the thought of you not posting as I've gleaned so much from your brain and way of thinking.Thanks for all your patience too..

[Keepthefaith]

Obstruction of Justice

private eye writes: Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

Providing intentionally false testimony as WITNESS in a criminal matter is a crime.  The crime is called Obstruction of Justice.  In this case, the criminal acts are extended to include "conspiracy to obstruct justice" as both deepak and jvds willfully "conspired" to create a false story, and further conspired with Satish to do the same.

SM poster Rammstein, when questioned directly about this, claimed that once each of the 3 were named "SUSPECT,"  their previous criminal actions realted to their intentionally false testimony were superceded by the direct criminal charges of murder.  In a sense, this poster claims that there is a reachback immunity provision whereby previous criminal acts are offically ignored -- based on the Aruban convention of prosecuting for the most serious criminal offense possible under the law.  Therefore meaning that if the 3 were prosecuted for obstruction, they then could not be prosecuted for a more serious related offense: murder.

I don't believe this.

In fact, Arlene Ellis Schipper, when asked about this on air during an interview offered up instead an acknowledgement that obstructive acts likely occurred -- but that under Aruban law and given the age of the defendants -- that they would "receive only a couple of months in jail."

This response was evasive and off point.  It further attempts to change the subject with a poorly cast relative argument (we're dealing with rape and murder, why let them off with an obstruction charge?).

The actual point is that the three of them committed a crime for which there is undeniable evidence.  There is no question that each of the 3 main suspects committed obstruction of justice by providing intentionally false testimony as witnesses.  A proactive law enforcement and prosecutorial approach would have been to arrest and prosecute one of the Kalpoe brothers on obstruction, and during this investigation to interrogate him assertively in the hopes of obtaining material clues, evidence and statements about the other two, and about what happened.  This approach is used all over the world: we frequently see violent criminals initially held by police for lesser offenses, as an investigation gathers steam.

The failure to prosecute the 3 main suspects on obstruction charges (and Steve Croes, as well) is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of professional malfeasance and failure to perform offenses in the Aruban police department and prosecutorial branch.

It's disgusting, actually.

.

That charge is related to the harm to the investigation, but what about the intended harm and the actual harm to the 2 innocent men? And if Joran can file civil suits against Peter, why have those 2 men not filed suit against Paulus? Maybe our efforts should be directed towards helping those 2 men and the wife of Rene, the man who was beheaded.

 A Columbian necktie is a message of some sort, as is a man hanging himself and being found dead with his hand in his own pocket. It is physically impossible to hang one's self and keep one hand in your own pocket.

Does the neck mean to be quiet and the hand in the epocket mean to mind your own business?

A Colombian necktie, also known as the Italian necktie, Sicilian necktie, or Cuban necktie, is a method of execution where the victim's neck is slashed (with a knife or other sharp object) and their tongue is pulled out through the open wound. It was a popular method of killing during the Colombian history period called La Violencia that started in 1948 after the leader Jorge Eliecer Gaitan was murdered.

The Colombian Necktie is sometimes erroneously credited as having been invented by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar, but this infamous method of killing was already present since 1950, during La Violencia in Colombia's civil war, it was performed on enemies as psychological warfare meant to scare and intimidate those who later encountered the body

Whats with the hand in the pocket after hanging ones self ? That simply is impossible to do. Someone has to set the hand in the pocket afterwards.

Was he the cameraman and if so was this telling people that this is what happens if you do investigative journalism in the Dutch Antilles??Just a thought.Get in contact with there families and communicate what they know regarding the inner workings of the Dutch Antilles.More thoughts.Don't know.Find people who've been wronged quite severly by these corrupt people and make allies???Just thinking allowed.Anymore history available on the Reporter,as well as the cameraman.Information has got top be out there....

[AZSunny]

ala_gunslinger,

 I am in the B'ham area. What's Up?

I think its time we put together a plan to have a 'Fund the Search' drive for the Persistence to find Natalie.  We contact all of the readio stations, television stations, newspapers, etc. and have a Fund the Search telethon.

Do you want to have a benefit concert as well?  We have some very good friends in some very popular bands (AlterBridge,Hinder, Breaking Benjamin,etc.).

Let's do this!

Isn't Taylor Hicks from there too?

Yes he is!

What about Courtney Cox?  I am sure she knows a lot of people there, and she helped before with the auction donations.

[Dihannah1]

Hall Monitor here...let's all calm down and get back to business.  Natalee needs us right now to be united more than ever.  One thing I can say about the monkeys is they may get mad and sulk off into a corner but there is one shining light guiding us to the end and it is Natalee.  Not only are we like family in here, sometimes we all get irritated...I was irritated the other night and then a few weeks ago someone was irritated with me about Shango.  Heck!  If I can tolerate some of the hate spewed my way over Shango and Simian and still be in that thread day in and day out all the while being laughed at...then we can all get tougher skins and carry on. 

There are good people in Aruba...I would never have said that 3 months ago...I felt there was no one that cared about anything but tourism dollars and the fun that comes with the party happy island.  That is until I met a person named Capslockwizard.  Yes, I was skeptical, just ask Klaas.  Even through my apparent skepticsim and apprehension that things were taking a wrong turn...I kept on listening to him.  I kept on thinking...could this be a break...could this be an answered prayer? 

I stuck with it...although we still have few answers I am making connections to all those dots I have chased for over 2 years.  Not clear connections, but in here what is clear?  But little by little I have come to see there are good people  in Aruba...people that given the chance will do the right thing.  Fear is the word that permeates the culture there...fear of retribution...I understand it more than ever and I am so skeptical at times I want to slap myself. 

I also, believe there are good Dutch people too.  They have families and just want the best for them and their world..just as we do here in America.  Cultural differences are hard to overcome...some impossible and have to remain that way.  Also, let's not forget the times suspicions have surfaced concerning many things on Aruba.  I know there are some new people that do not understand this and I see no way to get them up to speed at this moment.  I guess what I am asking is...let's not lose sight of the reason we are here....that is what is most important about all of us that reach from one corner of the earth to the other...Natalee Holloway...who is standing with me?

Yet another post of reason!  I'm standing right next to you in line with the rest of the Monkeys!   GROUP HUG!