Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08

[Dayhiker]

maybe I'm wrong and should just keep my mouth shut.

but,

It's the reverse racism here that is sometimes overlooked by just about everyone... maybe not overlooked but hardly ever commented on. We all know it exists and quite frankly, it's repulsive. It's ok for some to pin the guards and no one on Aruba seems to care. That's wrong. The reverse racism by those that excuse the savagery of the Sloots, look to anything and everyone to blame instead of where the real problem lies. Racism on Aruba.

It's almost as - if Beth and Dave would have been racists themselves and accepted the guards they would have had their trial and convictions.

As Anna pointed out so many times, racism in the south is not what it once was and those on Aruba were unaware that times have changed.

This is not a black and white issue, in my opinion, it's a criminal and justice matter - no matter what the color of someones skin.

I'll shut up now.

Just my 2 cents to add, it was a set-up plain and simple. They had nothing on the guards, their purpose was two-fold. First, they assumed the Holloway-Twittys would be racists being from Alabama and would hence gobble the arrest of two black security guards. Wrong on that count. Second, they were purposely buying Joran and Paulus an extra five days while they disposed of everything and got their stories straight. It was 10 days after the security guards were arrested that the faux search of the Van der Sloots happened, and we all know what went down there with Ben Vocking and Bob Wit. Their second strategy worked and is one of the key reasons the case is unsolved today.

[Tater]

ala_gunslinger,

 I am in the B'ham area. What's Up?

I think its time we put together a plan to have a 'Fund the Search' drive for the Persistence to find Natalie.  We contact all of the readio stations, television stations, newspapers, etc. and have a Fund the Search telethon.

Do you want to have a benefit concert as well?  We have some very good friends in some very popular bands (AlterBridge,Hinder, Breaking Benjamin,etc.).

Let's do this!

Isn't Taylor Hicks from there too?

[teacat]

Good Morning Monkeys...

I have NOT...and will NOT be sending anything to anyone...sorry to have opened a can of worms...was not my intention at all.

I WON'T be making anymore phone calls to anyone...am going back into lurk mode...sorry for any bad feelings I might have caused to anyone.

Justice for Natalee.

Destiny

I've been reading this passage of conflicting ideas, opinions and determinations since yesterday...... and wish to chime in, FWIW:

Destiny, please do not lurk in the background; your optimism and goodwill and cheer is much needed NOW as there appears to a potential rift in the MonkeyBunk.

To the others who have given so much and opined so strongly, I ask of you, indeed all of you: Please do not tear this group into factions. Stay united and focused on the goal, not the shadows. The enemy is not SM or its members. The enemy is truthlessness. Those who would spread it will attempt to wreak havoc here. They will use us to break ourselves, IF WE LET THEM.

Let's not let them.  It's more fun to watch them break themselves!


that is all.....

[sb]

Hi everyone,

Having Monkey time this morning... priceless!

I think that considering the class and character of people we are up against in this case, that all caution possible should be exercised with regards to ANY potential "evidence", such as the pictures. Loose Lips Sink Ships... and help evidence to disappear, too.

I'm gonna come down on this one, on the side of those who say to NOT send anything to the Dark Side. I have dealt with people who SHOULD be able to be trusted, but CANNOT be, just about all my life. I wouldn't trust Natalee's enemies in this case in anything whatsoever. The sheer defiance and ruthlessness they have shown for 2 1/2 years tells me all I need to know about their trustworthiness. If I have one disappointment in this case, it is that Robin Holloway, whom I have met personally and happen to think very highly of, cannot grasp that fact. You only get so far in making nice with your enemies. "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer", is definitely true... but don't get so close to them that the knife behind your back can reach its target.

oceanexploration knows how it works in the real world where the big boys live.

I understand the thing of being "transparent" and "open" but we are dealing with CRIMINAL MINDS and CRIMINAL ACTS here and we can ill afford to let them see what we are holding in the tank. That would be analogous to telling Bill Belichick, for example, to turn off the cameras, we'll give you our playbook for free. Does that analogy register with our football Monkeys?

On another level, the Dark Side has taken advantage of the Prosecution and knows chapter-and-verse about the evidence collected so far. THAT'S WHY THERE HAS BEEN NO TRIAL... and likely won't be... because the bad guys have the inside scoop.

Whatever the Persistence has found, it has been won at a dear price. We shouldn't just give it away.

[Ono]

ala_gunslinger,

 I am in the B'ham area. What's Up?

I think its time we put together a plan to have a 'Fund the Search' drive for the Persistence to find Natalie.  We contact all of the readio stations, television stations, newspapers, etc. and have a Fund the Search telethon.

Do you want to have a benefit concert as well?  We have some very good friends in some very popular bands (AlterBridge,Hinder, Breaking Benjamin,etc.).

Let's do this!

I don't live up there but your idea of a benefit concert sounds great....what about contacting Taylor Hicks?  Contact Jimmy Buffet in care of his sister, Lucy Buffet, who is down at the Gulf at her popular restaurant, LuLu's?  Jimmy is around a lot.

http://www.lulusathomeport.com/main/index.php

They are good friends with Taylor's grandmother.  Surely there are celebrities from Alabama who could get involved ??

[Rob]

maybe I'm wrong and should just keep my mouth shut.

but,

It's the reverse racism here that is sometimes overlooked by just about everyone... maybe not overlooked but hardly ever commented on. We all know it exists and quite frankly, it's repulsive. It's ok for some to pin the guards and no one on Aruba seems to care. That's wrong. The reverse racism by those that excuse the savagery of the Sloots, look to anything and everyone to blame instead of where the real problem lies. Racism on Aruba.

It's almost as - if Beth and Dave would have been racists themselves and accepted the guards they would have had their trial and convictions.

As Anna pointed out so many times, racism in the south is not what it once was and those on Aruba were unaware that times have changed.

This is not a black and white issue, in my opinion, it's a criminal and justice matter - no matter what the color of someones skin.

I'll shut up now.

Just my 2 cents to add, it was a set-up plain and simple. They had nothing on the guards, their purpose was two-fold. First, they assumed the Holloway-Twittys would be racists being from Alabama and would hence gobble the arrest of two black security guards. Wrong on that count. Second, they were purposely buying Joran and Paulus an extra five days while they disposed of everything and got their stories straight. It was 10 days after the security guards were arrested that the faux search of the Van der Sloots happened, and we all know what went down there with Ben Vocking and Bob Wit. Their second strategy worked and is one of the key reasons the case is unsolved today.

Right Bro, it's extremely repulsive to anyone that the Dutch stormed in like cowboys and pulled that crap and the Dutch citizens of Aruba don't seem to care. That's wrong.

But their hopping mad that the Sloots are targeted. Remember their mad at Patrick, not Joran. It's that kind of thinking that leads to 'bad things happening' in my opinion.

It's ok if it happens to another race, as long as it isn't MY race.... that's totally twisted.

[littlebuddy598]

ala_gunslinger

 We also have Bo Bice from her as well. Just let me know what I can do. Will do just about what ever.

[ala_gunslinger]

ala_gunslinger,

 I am in the B'ham area. What's Up?

I think its time we put together a plan to have a 'Fund the Search' drive for the Persistence to find Natalie.  We contact all of the readio stations, television stations, newspapers, etc. and have a Fund the Search telethon.

Do you want to have a benefit concert as well?  We have some very good friends in some very popular bands (AlterBridge,Hinder, Breaking Benjamin,etc.).

Let's do this!

Isn't Taylor Hicks from there too?

Yes he is!

[sb]

The Dutch were racists before the first African slave ever set foot in America. We are dealing with the inventors of Apartheid here, guys. They perfected and refined racism to a fine science in South Africa as far back as the early 1700's.

Does that mean that all Dutch today are racists, OF COURSE NOT. But it makes it hard for them to call Alabamians the spawn of Hitler, etc.

I'm NOT a native Alabamian, (and they certainly have their faults at times, like during football season ) but here I stick up for them for being a tough people who refuse to take "no" for an answer.

[Keepthefaith]

I don't believe for one minute that some guy that works with ALE doesn't know about this place or any of the other sites.  Call him back and tell him to Google it.  That way you won't get in any trouble.  You wouldn't want to be accused of interfering with an investigation after all we know how hard they are working down there to solve this...in between the frosted flakes parties and the naps. 

You are right LALA, they have a room full of intell person sitting and listeting and watching..I know this for a fact.

I say do not make a move. 

I believe in my heart that the professionals are on the right track!You must throw a little bait every once and awhile and see how the pot stirs.Just like Mos.They know they can't appease us with Props anymore but sometimes you have to play along.Mos i believe is a prop just like everyone else.There is a Soul left on that island that will show us the way.With every little bait you throw you learn more and more.They are sweating and the people that are in the know,i believe are doing a great job.Everything takes time.Keepthefaith....


Geology.....Time and pressure....

[the big hammer]

Kalpoe Fingered Mickey and Abe ?

While the deepak e-mail and each Kalpoe PV indicates their implication of "a" security guard, the actual story of the Holiday Inn drop off and the particulars were cooked up, at least as we know and stated, in the car ride deepak and jvds took from hotel gambling back to sloot house on May 31, 2005 when paulus called jvds to return home, as there were people from Alabama at the sloot house looking for their missing daughter.  This is coroborated in other pv's I believe when deepak called his brother Satish, during this same car ride, to relay the details of the story, in case he was questioned.

During that same nite, an impromptu re-enactment of the drop off was role played at the entrance of the Holiday Inn, and both were involved (jvds, dk) -- including Paulus, who was reportedly coaching his son and glancing worriedly at the security cameras.  Those cameras produced the film that proved the whole drop off story was a lie.

It was Beth who reviewed the film, and she knew as of June 1 there was no drop off at all.

Yet, Mickey Johns and Abraham Jones were arrested -- based on this false story and false witness report -- 4 days later, on June 5, 2005.

The responsibility for this frame job can not be laid at the feet of the Kalpoe's alone.  Both jvds and Paulus were on scene and participated in the re-enactment of the false drop off story.  They were directly involved as well.

And a special note: the pv archive is missing the two "WITNESS" statements of jvds -- these would be the earliest statements he gave ALE.  I think most of us believe these are "missing" for a reason -- and that is to insulate jvds from his self-incriminating statements of bearing false witness and providing intentionally false testimony.  And other reasons too.

.

[ala_gunslinger]

A diamond is a piece of coal that stuck to it's job!

[wreck]

Are these the latest developments:

Persistance is out of funds and search will end in a few days?

The underwater photos were authentic but there were no remains inside the cage?

Joran is either in hiding or hospitalized?

Mos is doing nothing but PR?

No breaks in the case since PDV show?

That's about the gist of it.

1. I'm believing God will provide the funds
2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's
3. Yes
4.Yes
5. There could be,we just don't know about them,yet..

2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's

Well....now that's just not possible.  Did not the esteemed Hans Mos tell us that all killings in Aruba were solved?  Oops, on second thought, maybe you are right.  It's probably just some fool who didn't have the guts to gut himelf and set itself on fire that killed himself by crawling into a crab trap and dropping himself into the ocean.

Well, at the risk of making Ocean Explorer angry ( no disrespect intended - I GREATLY admire, respect, and appreciate this unbelievable crew, et al) -- my own opinion is that they INTENDED for this discovery to remain "under wraps" until all "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed. They shared the evidence with Dave/Robin -- and it got distributed BEFORE they were ready. I for one THINK the contents of that cage are exactly what we are all hoping for.

[Destiny]

Are these the latest developments:

Persistance is out of funds and search will end in a few days?

The underwater photos were authentic but there were no remains inside the cage?

Joran is either in hiding or hospitalized?

Mos is doing nothing but PR?

No breaks in the case since PDV show?

That's about the gist of it.

1. I'm believing God will provide the funds
2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's
3. Yes
4.Yes
5. There could be,we just don't know about them,yet..

2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's

Well....now that's just not possible.  Did not the esteemed Hans Mos tell us that all killings in Aruba were solved?  Oops, on second thought, maybe you are right.  It's probably just some fool who didn't have the guts to gut himelf and set itself on fire that killed himself by crawling into a crab trap and dropping himself into the ocean.

Well, at the risk of making Ocean Explorer angry ( no disrespect intended - I GREATLY admire, respect, and appreciate this unbelievable crew, et al) -- my own opinion is that they INTENDED for this discovery to remain "under wraps" until all "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed. They shared the evidence with Dave/Robin -- and it got distributed BEFORE they were ready. I for one THINK the contents of that cage are exactly what we are all hoping for.

I agree Wreck...

[Tamikosmom]

I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must. 

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?   

You are not helping anything by interfering with what you do not fully understand.  Please let the authorities do their jobs without interference.   

Robin should never have posted those pics because of the stir they would cause.  She trusted (mistakenly) people's ethics on a private forum.  One of the reasons (among many) that this case has taken so long to solve is because of the Internet, media, and well intended partially-informed people's ambitions and agendas.  Stay out of business you don't belong in.  You all know I am an ally both in the field and on the net.  I have done my best to both bring success to this case and to keep people informed and updated with what information should be provided.  We the search team have worked extremely hard over a long time.  Many of you have as well.  Let's not let our frustrations get the best of us.  Let us not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true, and let us not forget who we are and what jobs we have to do.  Let those who are responsible do their jobs.

oceanexploration ... I cannot comprehend the logic behind your reasonng.

On one hand ... you staunchly uphold and embrace the assistance of the ARUBAN POLICE.  Those who adhere to the contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation has denied Natalee Holloway justice in an attempt to protect their own from implication ... are asking "Why?"

On the other hand ... you not only negate but ... you place blame for the "unsolved" case on the efforts of those who have stood behind justice for Natalee Holloway and ... have taken up the task of assuring that a missing 18 year old American citizen who has been denied justice by a corrupt Aruban investigation ... does not become a faded memory.

Sincerely, Janet

+++++++++++++


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457#msg332457
 
ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help. They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning. Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

[ala_gunslinger]

ala_gunslinger

 We also have Bo Bice from her as well. Just let me know what I can do. Will do just about what ever.

Anyone else?  Good or bad?

Klass, Obs, Red - I'll give ya'll the veto power.  Want us to move this out of this thread? 

[Destiny]

ala_gunslinger

 We also have Bo Bice from her as well. Just let me know what I can do. Will do just about what ever.

Anyone else?  Good or bad?

Klass, Obs, Red - I'll give ya'll the veto power.  Want us to move this out of this thread? 

I can try for Ted Nugent...God forbid...I will have to make a few phone calls...I don't know his schedule...but I can try...

[wreck]

ala_gunslinger

 We also have Bo Bice from her as well. Just let me know what I can do. Will do just about what ever.

Anyone else?  Good or bad?

Klass, Obs, Red - I'll give ya'll the veto power.  Want us to move this out of this thread? 

I can try for Ted Nugent...God forbid...I will have to make a few phone calls...I don't know his schedule...but I can try...

"Cat Scratch Fever!!!" LOL-- it figures a "kitty" would have Ted's #!!! 

[blah]

I think Frank, or anyone else, should be able to express his opinion how the hell ever he wants.

If you dont like it, dont read it.

I skip over alot of crap on here because its annoying, should I start complaining everytime I see something I dont like?  This place would be nothing but a complaint board at that point.

[Tater]

ala_gunslinger

 We also have Bo Bice from her as well. Just let me know what I can do. Will do just about what ever.

Anyone else?  Good or bad?

Klass, Obs, Red - I'll give ya'll the veto power.  Want us to move this out of this thread? 

I can try for Ted Nugent...God forbid...I will have to make a few phone calls...I don't know his schedule...but I can try...

Tell him Hillary is going to be there and he'll be there with both guns drawn..