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Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
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Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08 (Read 541127 times)
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Shell
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #940 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:26:04 PM »
I admit, I skipped ahead and did not read some pages of this thread. Can someone tell me if it has been determined if Joran is in a mental hospital? I was thinking today, maybe he is really in a rehab facility.
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*Avatar courtesy of CBB, a very talented and sweet monkey. Peaches and 2NJ, may you rest in peace. You will never be forgotten.
bleachedblack
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #941 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:26:43 PM »
Quote from: oceanexploration on February 29, 2008, 07:24:35 PM
You mean to tell me that the Monkeys have not dug up a copy of Mos's press release about this yet? I find this hard to believe.
LOL I know Janet had to have it somewhere.....
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more than anything ...... watch the edges that blur"
WhiskeyGirl
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #942 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:27:23 PM »
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Benjamin Disraeli (popularized in the U.S. by Mark Twain)
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All my posts are just my humble opinions. Please take with a grain of salt.
It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
Observer
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #943 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:28:37 PM »
PRETZER: Jossy, TES asked about the painted rocks. Visibility Team was painting supposedly because they found a 7-year-old boy. What are the painted rocks about, and was that plastic bag ever analyzed?
Art: Don't know, have looked at painted rocks and bag video. Also natural bridge area. A 7-year-old child was found in the dunes, I believe was found prior to Natalee's disappearance. Person says he took video June 10-11 of 2005. Video could be critical piece of evidence. Have talked to Dave to talk to his FBI sources about this. Is about 50 yards from dunes where Art found the belt, also area where Dave say the Police car on June 2 where they slammed the trunk without talking to him .
Dave and Art met with the Prime Minister and the assistant prosecutor who quit the case Analyses (?) Flanagan - they were impressed with her, but she quit the case. They met with her for hours late at night (she had the permission of the attorney general). They explained that they wanted the prosecution team replaced. She told them that she saw the testimony of Koen Gottenbos who she said concocted a story that he had a tennis match with Joran at the tennis club. Was found to be a lie, she wanted re-interviewed but Police and KJ resisted him being re-interviewed
. Word by students was that they borrowed Koen family boat on May 30. Also had solid evidence from friends of the Gottenbos' , that Koen was ready to crack. He was afraid of being arrested, slept with mother as afraid. They went to Dompig to try to get interviewed. Koen's father who got a lawyer and Koen was not interviewed.
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"I lied and thats the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot
AZLady
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #944 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:29:23 PM »
I believe the fabric of Natalee's blouse washed up on shore that summer. I saw the pics up close and worked on enhancing them. I was actually puzzled by Mos' declaration that the fabric did not match Natalee's clothing. Did he expect it to match her clothing? I didn't. Frankly, I doubt Natalee had her clothing on when she was dumped at sea. She wore very little clothing when she got into that car with Joran and the Kalpoes--a sleeveless summer shirt, denim skirt, panties. That's it. Then, she was gang raped by the three, maybe more. I really do not believe she had clothing on when she was dumped and I would be surprised if a body were found with her clothing around it. So, when Mos said the fabric did not match her clothing, my thought was, "Of course it didn't." The fabric was probably something wrapped around her, like a blanket or towel, or maybe it was fabric from something like Joran's shoe. Who knows? But I didn't expect it to be her clothing and was surprised when Mos made that statement.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
Nut44x4
Maine - USA
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #945 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:29:50 PM »
Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba
To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2007
Pages 1
The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.
The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.
On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.
Logged
Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware/Of giving your heart to a dog to tear -- Rudyard Kipling
One who doesn't trust is never deceived...
'I remained too much inside my head and ended up losing my mind' -Edgar Allen Poe
klaasend
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #946 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:30:08 PM »
Quote from: oceanexploration on February 29, 2008, 07:24:35 PM
You mean to tell me that the Monkeys have not dug up a copy of Mos's press release about this yet? I find this hard to believe.
You mean about what was found? Posted a couple days ago.
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Peaches
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~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #947 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:30:11 PM »
Quote from: WhiskeyGirl on February 29, 2008, 07:25:20 PM
Quote from: Magnolia on February 29, 2008, 07:22:00 PM
Ocean,
In Mos' last new conference he said that all murders in
Aruba in the last five years had been solved.
He was not defending the Justice Dept, he was
accounting for any bodies that were/have been found.
How hard would it be to classify a death or disappearance on Aruba as a murder?
Practice seems to have made perfect.
If a death were suspicious, and there was no conviction of someone, would they call it a murder? Or a death for unknown unclassified reason?
No, that would be "natural causes".
What about those people that just disappear?
What people?
How is someone accounting for all the bodies that are found? Suicide?
Alot of people are stressed out. They commit suicide.
Why would someone put a body in a crab trap? Maybe that was someone's last wish?
Many people on the island posses the last wish to want to sleep with the fishes.
My answers in red here.
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
Lala'sMom
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Posts: 13812
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #948 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:31:52 PM »
We have been struggling with this in the Shango thread today...it concerns this particular person's statements and a request for something to be returned. By any chance, does anyone have any idea who this person is and what ALE could have taken from them that they would want returned? Could this man have been an attorney? Why would he be asking for a "suspects belongings"? Does this mean he was a suspect? Anyone have any ideas? TIA
Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description:
witness statement
Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Name/Title: Reply on request to
return suspects belongings
Date: 20 October 2005
Pa.gcs: 1
Writer/Initiator: J.M.A.M. Ponsioen
This was Caps response when asked what a request 41 was...
Art.41
This article deals with the question in how far an offence committed in the Netherlands under the influence of alcohol or other drugs can be imputed to the offender. Unlike many other countries the Dutch Penal Code does not contain specific provisions with respect to the criminal liability of addicted or intoxicated offenders. In principle, they are held responsible for their offences, even when the dolus or culpa is absent at the moment they commit their offence. Doctrine and jurisprudence found this liability on the principle of 'culpa/dolus in causa', by accepting an anterior dolus or culpa, which is situated at the moment the offender takes alcohol or other drugs. As is shown in this article, the - nondogmatic - interpretation of this culpa in causa doctrine leaves hardly any space for a claim to impunity.
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Peaches
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~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #949 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:33:24 PM »
Quote from: Shell on February 29, 2008, 07:26:04 PM
I admit, I skipped ahead and did not read some pages of this thread. Can someone tell me if it has been determined if Joran is in a mental hospital? I was thinking today, maybe he is really in a rehab facility.
As usual, Shell, depends on who you ask.
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 7754
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #950 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:33:41 PM »
From Janet -
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.520
Quote
Press release
Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba
To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2007
Pages 1
Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.
The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.
The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.
On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.
Logged
All my posts are just my humble opinions. Please take with a grain of salt.
It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
Blue Moon
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3912
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #951 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:34:00 PM »
Quote from: AZLady on February 29, 2008, 07:29:23 PM
I believe the fabric of Natalee's blouse washed up on shore that summer. I saw the pics up close and worked on enhancing them. I was actually puzzled by Mos' declaration that the fabric did not match Natalee's clothing. Did he expect it to match her clothing? I didn't. Frankly, I doubt Natalee had her clothing on when she was dumped at sea. She wore very little clothing when she got into that car with Joran and the Kalpoes--a sleeveless summer shirt, denim skirt, panties. That's it. Then, she was gang raped by the three, maybe more. I really do not believe she had clothing on when she was dumped and I would be surprised if a body were found with her clothing around it. So, when Mos said the fabric did not match her clothing, my thought was, "Of course it didn't." The fabric was probably something wrapped around her, like a blanket or towel, or maybe it was fabric from something like Joran's shoe. Who knows? But I didn't expect it to be her clothing and was surprised when Mos made that statement.
Maybe, just maybe, this was a message that they found someone's clothing or shoes
Logged
If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
oceanexploration
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 224
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #952 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:34:33 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on February 29, 2008, 07:30:08 PM
Quote from: oceanexploration on February 29, 2008, 07:24:35 PM
You mean to tell me that the Monkeys have not dug up a copy of Mos's press release about this yet? I find this hard to believe.
You mean about what was found? Posted a couple days ago.
Klaasend thank you.. I figured you had it. I was just making sure, else I would post it. It's what the media is reporting from. I like reading original statements before they're re-written by the press. But that's just me.
Logged
Personally, I prefer searching for lost shipwrecks. They're bigger and don't have living enemies.
SEARCH FOR NATALEE BLOG:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/
Peaches
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3539
~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #953 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:36:01 PM »
Quote from: AZLady on February 29, 2008, 07:29:23 PM
I believe the fabric of Natalee's blouse washed up on shore that summer. I saw the pics up close and worked on enhancing them. I was actually puzzled by Mos' declaration that the fabric did not match Natalee's clothing. Did he expect it to match her clothing? I didn't. Frankly, I doubt Natalee had her clothing on when she was dumped at sea. She wore very little clothing when she got into that car with Joran and the Kalpoes--a sleeveless summer shirt, denim skirt, panties. That's it. Then, she was gang raped by the three, maybe more. I really do not believe she had clothing on when she was dumped and I would be surprised if a body were found with her clothing around it. So, when Mos said the fabric did not match her clothing, my thought was, "Of course it didn't." The fabric was probably something wrapped around her, like a blanket or towel, or maybe it was fabric from something like Joran's shoe. Who knows? But I didn't expect it to be her clothing and was surprised when Mos made that statement.
Ever the voice of reason. I agree. I wasn't surprised for exactly the reasons you outlined so well.
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
klaasend
Administrator
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #954 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:36:25 PM »
Quote from: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 07:31:52 PM
We have been struggling with this in the Shango thread today...it concerns this particular person's statements and a request for something to be returned. By any chance, does anyone have any idea who this person is and what ALE could have taken from them that they would want returned? Could this man have been an attorney? Why would he be asking for a "suspects belongings"? Does this mean he was a suspect? Anyone have any ideas? TIA
Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description:
witness statement
Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Name/Title: Reply on request to
return suspects belongings
Date: 20 October 2005
Pa.gcs: 1
Writer/Initiator: J.M.A.M. Ponsioen
This was Caps response when asked what a request 41 was...
Art.41
This article deals with the question in how far an offence committed in the Netherlands under the influence of alcohol or other drugs can be imputed to the offender. Unlike many other countries the Dutch Penal Code does not contain specific provisions with respect to the criminal liability of addicted or intoxicated offenders. In principle, they are held responsible for their offences, even when the dolus or culpa is absent at the moment they commit their offence. Doctrine and jurisprudence found this liability on the principle of 'culpa/dolus in causa', by accepting an anterior dolus or culpa, which is situated at the moment the offender takes alcohol or other drugs. As is shown in this article, the - nondogmatic - interpretation of this culpa in causa doctrine leaves hardly any space for a claim to impunity.
Are you sure that "request 41" isn't the
request number
in the Dr. Phil motion to compel?
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AZLady
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Posts: 5214
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #955 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:38:29 PM »
What I do find strange is that Mos only references clothing or cloth in his press release. He does not mention anything else found in the trap or whether the FBI was asked to process the other contents of the trap.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5376
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #956 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:41:04 PM »
Quote from: oceanexploration on February 29, 2008, 07:24:35 PM
You mean to tell me that the Monkeys have not dug up a copy of Mos's press release about this yet? I find this hard to believe.
Mos is easy. The FBI report is difficult. If the real reports and rulings were actually posted, there would be a lot less speculation regarding truth vs. propaganda. The island always seems to give interpretations and not the real deal.
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AZLady
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5214
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #957 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:41:08 PM »
Ocean, was there something other than cloth in the trap? Was the FBI asked to process something other than cloth? If so, are the results known and can they be shared?
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BRING NATALEE HOME
Peaches
Monkey Junky
Offline
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~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #958 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:41:21 PM »
Someone posted something the other day, some government regulations or something that had "articles". I remember seeing it. It was long and complicated but I understand Article 41. It means being stoned isn't a good defense. IMO
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
Magnolia
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 6714
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
«
Reply #959 on:
February 29, 2008, 07:42:17 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on February 29, 2008, 07:36:25 PM
Quote from: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 07:31:52 PM
We have been struggling with this in the Shango thread today...it concerns this particular person's statements and a request for something to be returned. By any chance, does anyone have any idea who this person is and what ALE could have taken from them that they would want returned? Could this man have been an attorney? Why would he be asking for a "suspects belongings"? Does this mean he was a suspect? Anyone have any ideas? TIA
Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description:
witness statement
Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Name/Title: Reply on request to
return suspects belongings
Date: 20 October 2005
Pa.gcs: 1
Writer/Initiator: J.M.A.M. Ponsioen
This was Caps response when asked what a request 41 was...
Art.41
This article deals with the question in how far an offence committed in the Netherlands under the influence of alcohol or other drugs can be imputed to the offender. Unlike many other countries the Dutch Penal Code does not contain specific provisions with respect to the criminal liability of addicted or intoxicated offenders. In principle, they are held responsible for their offences, even when the dolus or culpa is absent at the moment they commit their offence. Doctrine and jurisprudence found this liability on the principle of 'culpa/dolus in causa', by accepting an anterior dolus or culpa, which is situated at the moment the offender takes alcohol or other drugs. As is shown in this article, the - nondogmatic - interpretation of this culpa in causa doctrine leaves hardly any space for a claim to impunity.
Are you sure that "request 41" isn't the
request number
in the Dr. Phil motion to compel?
I know one of the Kalpoes' attorneys filed a motion to have belongings returned.
Logged
The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
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===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
-----------------------------
Natalee Holloway
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
-----------------------------
Current Events and Musings
-----------------------------
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
===> Hugely Popular TV Shows
===> Movies and Television
===> Social Media
===> Music
===> Books
===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
=> Health and Medical Issues
=> Food and Product Recalls
=> News of the Day
=> Business News
=> Sports
=> Political Forum
=> Religion (discussion and debate)
-----------------------------
The Monkey Lounge
-----------------------------
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
===> What's Cooking? Recipes
===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
-----------------------------
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
-----------------------------
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
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