Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08

[Bladerunner]

Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that.  Then later, it was left off the end.

And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing.  The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.

jmo

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I'm wondering if more of the fabric was found than what we saw?

Good point Klaas.

I find it odd that the FBI would be testing the fabric found against a "sample" of fabric that was similar to what Natalee was wearing. Even if it was a match, the evidenciary value would be pretty low, legally speaking.

[private eye]

Someone commented on the size of the trap.

I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos.  At least that is what I am doing.  The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.


jmo

I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.

Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?

There was a trap reportedly stolen from one of the Fishermen's Huts around that time.  It would have had to be considerably smaller for as you say, for a single fisherman to raise and lower.  This trap in the photos looks massive to me. 

I don't know that it has any real significance other than this trap appears to be too large to have been the one Dompig reported as stolen.

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I dont know if I buy that but thanks for explaining.

And I didnt say anything about a single fisherman either 

Some of the traps require a trwler type boat with a hoist/crane apparatus to lift the trap, and that would rule out the use of even a large recreational watercraft

[jackb]

blah, I bailed early so I wasn't here.  It appeared to be a misunderstanding over what we do here: discuss, speculate, examine, theorize, etc.  I think we were told we wouldn't solve the case right here because we weren't on the ground looking or something like that. 

I bailed early.  I'm glad I did.   I read thru it all when I got up this morning and it was confusing.  I scrolled alot.

I read all that BS but I dont see what Robin posted so it would "get out"

 

The pictures of the fish trap, blah.  Those were sent to the family and Robin posted them on another forum and then they were everywhere.

Pay attention!

Good Morning, All Other Monkeys!

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Anna,the question Blah and I have is why they would intentionally be leaked out.We are paying attention but I guess we are just not in the loop as to knowing why.Sorry...

This is a decision Robin made and it was her's and Daves to make.  If he did not help her make this, then that is between her and him.  What does it matter anyway.  For the love of Pete.  I have not slept much and I am grouchy.   Jack b
PS:  Please do not that that mouth started on us this am.  She is worse than waking up to jaws.  Maybe she will go to BFN and roar for awhile.      Jack b

Jack, it won't hurt my feelings one bit if you skip every post I ever make.

Nellie Olson

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  Purple you know you luv me, so I will have to look over you.  I try to be kind to all little animals.     jack b

[AZLady]

Someone commented on the size of the trap.

I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos.  At least that is what I am doing.  The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.


jmo

I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.

Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?

Some felt the trap was not consistent with the size of the trap stolen from the Fisherman's Hut.  That trap was about 4' x 5 1/2' x 17".  The assumption is that if Natalee's body were in the trap, that it would be the stolen trap from Fisherman's Hut.  Some have theorized that her body could have been placed in a different trap, not necessarily the stolen trap, so we would then not know the dimensions.  Others have said that the underwater view distorts size. 

Have any of these people produced a picture of the trap that was stolen?  Where did we get the dimensions from?

And I agree that Natalee doesnt necessarily have to be in a trap that was reported stolen from the fishermans huts. 

Now you're asking the hard questions.  LOL  I believe an interview on TV with a fisherman in Aruba is where we got the dimensions.  I don't have it at my fingertips, but Tamikosmom or another who is supremely organized probably has it.

[private eye]

Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that.  Then later, it was left off the end.

And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing.  The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.

jmo

.

I'm wondering if more of the fabric was found than what we saw?

Good point Klaas.

I find it odd that the FBI would be testing the fabric found against a "sample" of fabric that was similar to what Natalee was wearing. Even if it was a match, the evidenciary value would be pretty low, legally speaking.

But the investigative value would be immense

[sharon]

Just to clarify the post---

"What did I miss -- what did a Mansur do?"  was poster 'stef'. She inadvertantly inserted her comment in the middle of Bondia's post.

[Anna]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.  

[jackb]

Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that.  Then later, it was left off the end.

And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing.  The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.

jmo

.

(Trying to make you feel luved purp.)  Anyway, some of theirs must have seen this cloth (Photogs)and got a Colombian necktie.     j/b

[wreck]

Someone commented on the size of the trap.

I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos.  At least that is what I am doing.  The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.


jmo

I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.

Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?

Some felt the trap was not consistent with the size of the trap stolen from the Fisherman's Hut.  That trap was about 4' x 5 1/2' x 17".  The assumption is that if Natalee's body were in the trap, that it would be the stolen trap from Fisherman's Hut.  Some have theorized that her body could have been placed in a different trap, not necessarily the stolen trap, so we would then not know the dimensions.  Others have said that the underwater view distorts size. 

Have any of these people produced a picture of the trap that was stolen?  Where did we get the dimensions from?

And I agree that Natalee doesnt necessarily have to be in a trap that was reported stolen from the fishermans huts. 

One of my "wild theories" yesterday was that the trap WAS larger and that is why they are being mum about it. It suggests that Natalee wasn't disposed of the first night and a "bigger boat" was involved. This would indicate a "bigger" cover-up. The Persistence does not want to tip their hand just yet to the actual perps involved.

[blah]

Someone commented on the size of the trap.

I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos.  At least that is what I am doing.  The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.


jmo

I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.

Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?

There was a trap reportedly stolen from one of the Fishermen's Huts around that time.  It would have had to be considerably smaller for as you say, for a single fisherman to raise and lower.  This trap in the photos looks massive to me. 

I don't know that it has any real significance other than this trap appears to be too large to have been the one Dompig reported as stolen.

.

I dont know if I buy that but thanks for explaining.

And I didnt say anything about a single fisherman either 

Some of the traps require a trwler type boat with a hoist/crane apparatus to lift the trap, and that would rule out the use of even a large recreational watercraft

as far as I know, the type of boat required to raise a large trap redquiring a hoist/crane has never been ruled out as the vessel that took Natalee out to sea.  The actual boat/ship whatever has never been identified as far as I know

[AZLady]

As I've mentioned before, I would not expect Natalee's remains to be found with any of her clothing.  I'd be very surprised if this happened.  So, the fact that the FBI did not match the fabric found to Natalee's clothing is inconclusive.  It really means---NOTHING.  The only think I can conclude from this is that fabric was found in the trap.  That's it.

[Blue Moon]

MOO, it is encouraging that A trap was found in the waters off Aruba. Even if it does not hold anything in it linking it to Natalee it DOES have a link to SOMEONE and once they find out who that someone is then it will be exposed that this is a common practice to put a person in a crab trap and dump them in the ocean to never be seen or heard from since. My guess is this would bolster their position to keep on searching. Now Aruba will not agree but who cares.  Those Pimps got this idea (or the elders did) because it had been done before.  Only this time they have been called out on it and Joran told the world how it was done.  Dumb, Dumb, Dumb move my boy.

[Anna]

Also doesn't that Dr. Andrew Hodges give the exact dimentions from an interview he evidently did with the fisherman with the missing trap?

Dimensions might well be on his website as well.

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[blah]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.  

I guess I dont understand.  Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?

[Peaches]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.  

That is exactly it, Anna. 

[bluwaters]

is wise, IMHO   

[klaasend]

Just to clarify the post---

"What did I miss -- what did a Mansur do?"  was poster 'stef'. She inadvertantly inserted her comment in the middle of Bondia's post.

Glad you have that screen capture    I remember that as if it were yesterday. 

[AZLady]

Wreck, other statements support your theory.  Specifically, Dompig's comments that her body was moved more than once.  This implies that she was not dumped at sea on the night of May 30 or even May 31, but at a later time.

[klaasend]

Also doesn't that Dr. Andrew Hodges give the exact dimentions from an interview he evidently did with the fisherman with the missing trap?

Dimensions might well be on his website as well.

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Yes Anna and we posted that a couple times yesterday. I don't have time to go back and look but it is on Hodges site.

[Anna]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.  

I guess I dont understand.  Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?

No, I am not saying anything except a little boat could be used for a little trap but a huge trap would require a much larger boat.  The size of the trap would likely reflect the size of the boat used for placing it.  It wouldn't fit on a really small boat.

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