Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08

[wreck]

One more detail ....... the "security detail" for the occupant of the plane was granted permission to carry arms in Aruba.

[AZSunny]

Maybe the reason that the crew of Persistence isn't flying out until
tomorrow is that they were waiting for an official of the
US government to arrive to take the evidence that they have.
They just didn't expect such a high ranking official.

Persistence could not have cleared customs with the evidence.

Ocean was very clever at wording things.

ooh, didn't think about that -- "Diplomatic Pouch"

I was just thinking that very thing, Wreck.

.

and the plane is not leaving until "Monday" -- AFTER The Persistence officially leaves!! hmmmm

And if the remains have already been sent to VA for testing, what is in the diplomatic pouch that would need to be turned over to an official?? The pictures that Kyle was so upset about? 

[Destiny]

Destiny, talk more about what is on the other side of the sword!

Warning:  More speculation...gut feeling...what better way to place very sophisticated underwater radar/sonar detection system...in an area with some of the World's greatest drug trafficking...and terrorist operations...than from a very sophisticated state of the art ship...pretty much equipped for that purpose....then come back later to retrieve data...all under the guise of a great humanitarian effort...which BTW it was a search for Natalee too....putting on Kevlar undies and running....

[jackb]

For Immediate Release
Office of the Vice President
February 27, 2007

Vice President's Remarks to the Traveling Press
Aboard Air Force Two
En Route Muscat, Oman

3:19 P.M. (Local)

<snipped>

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/02/20070227.html

Careful.  The date says February "2007" which is last year.

Any one know where Condolisa Rice is?

LOL

anidac ... the point of my post was not the date ... it was the Dick Cheney/Air Force 2 connection.

Janet

LOL!  I missed that completely.  Hubby askes if we know the tail number.  I have to go back and look at the photo.  He is the one asking where Rice is right now.  I haven't had time to even read the thread let alone look for these things.  Tara has been on the phone with me from her firehouse.  Imagine that, a she feels like she has been run over by a mac truck and still wanted to go hang with her fellow firefighters at their firehouse.  LOL  Guess she is going to be just fine.  Swaping war stories and showing of the wounds like badges of honor.  They are a strange bunch, they are. LOL

Glad they are all pretty much ok.  That was rough about the paralyzed man.  That really was a bad accident.  Glad it turned out ok for you all.  j/b

[AZLady]

Maybe the reason that the crew of Persistence isn't flying out until
tomorrow is that they were waiting for an official of the
US government to arrive to take the evidence that they have.
They just didn't expect such a high ranking official.

Persistence could not have cleared customs with the evidence.

Ocean was very clever at wording things.

ooh, didn't think about that -- "Diplomatic Pouch"

I was just thinking that very thing, Wreck.

.

and the plane is not leaving until "Monday" -- AFTER The Persistence officially leaves!! hmmmm

That's what I said a while ago.  The men working on Persistence fly out tomorrow.  AF2 leaves on Monday.  And, the Persistence is leaving in a few days, as of yesterday.  I see an official escort for whatever was found in the waters around Aruba.  An official escort home--finally.

[Observer]

Maybe the reason that the crew of Persistence isn't flying out until
tomorrow is that they were waiting for an official of the
US government to arrive to take the evidence that they have.
They just didn't expect such a high ranking official.

Persistence could not have cleared customs with the evidence.

Ocean was very clever at wording things.

ooh, didn't think about that -- "Diplomatic Pouch"

I was just thinking that very thing, Wreck.

.

and the plane is not leaving until "Monday" -- AFTER The Persistence officially leaves!! hmmmm

And if the remains have already been sent to VA for testing, what is in the diplomatic pouch that would need to be turned over to an official?? The pictures that Kyle was so upset about? 

What is odd about this,was the story of Joran being in a Institution that broke almost the same time which I do not think is true. I almost get the feeling he has immunity from prosecution and they moved him to Germany for his safety.

[wreck]

Maybe the reason that the crew of Persistence isn't flying out until
tomorrow is that they were waiting for an official of the
US government to arrive to take the evidence that they have.
They just didn't expect such a high ranking official.

Persistence could not have cleared customs with the evidence.

Ocean was very clever at wording things.

ooh, didn't think about that -- "Diplomatic Pouch"

I was just thinking that very thing, Wreck.

.

and the plane is not leaving until "Monday" -- AFTER The Persistence officially leaves!! hmmmm

And if the remains have already been sent to VA for testing, what is in the diplomatic pouch that would need to be turned over to an official?? The pictures that Kyle was so upset about? 

Do we know that any "remains" have actually been sent to Quantico? I have heard about "fabric" only. Maybe that is the rub -- who gets to DNA test ? I bet Aruba doesn't want them examined. Could it be that the U.S. is finally doing a "Power Play"???

[Magnolia]

One more detail ....... the "security detail" for the occupant of the plane was granted permission to carry arms in Aruba.

I am fairly sure that part of the detail is FBI as well as the usual Secret Service.

[jackb]

Klassend: LaLa: MBOX

Klass, you may give Caps my email address now.

Not sure if you are teasing or really want me to send it?

actually it say 01.   j/b

[Tamikosmom]

NOPE!!  Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is not the reason the Dick Cheney is in Aruba.

 

Janet

+++++++++++++


http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/02/cheney-hugo-chavez-is-the-president-of-peru/

Cheney: Hugo Chavez is the President of Peru.

This morning in a speech in Dallas, a reporter asked Vice President Cheney about his views on Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Cheney responded that the people of Peru “deserve better” leadership:

MODERATOR: Our attention is focused on Iraq, Iran and the wider Middle East. However, much of the world is watching closely Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. How concerned are you about his influence?

CHENEY: We have — I’m trying to think how to state this diplomatically.

(LAUGHTER)

Diplomacy is hard sometimes.

(LAUGHTER)

We have refrained from making public pronouncements about Mr. Chavez — I think, for good and legitimate reasons. He’s a — obviously, an individual with his own agenda. And he spends a great deal of his time worrying about us and criticizing the United States.

My own personal view is that he does not represent the future of Latin America. And the people of Peru (sic), I think, deserve better in their leadership. But that’s obviously a matter they’ve got to resolve for themselves.

For the record, Peru’s current president is Alan García

[jackb]

For Immediate Release
Office of the Vice President
February 27, 2007

Vice President's Remarks to the Traveling Press
Aboard Air Force Two
En Route Muscat, Oman

3:19 P.M. (Local)

<snipped>

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/02/20070227.html

Careful.  The date says February "2007" which is last year.

Any one know where Condolisa Rice is?

LOL

anidac ... the point of my post was not the date ... it was the Dick Cheney/Air Force 2 connection.

Janet

LOL!  I missed that completely.  Hubby askes if we know the tail number.  I have to go back and look at the photo.  He is the one asking where Rice is right now.  I haven't had time to even read the thread let alone look for these things.  Tara has been on the phone with me from her firehouse.  Imagine that, a she feels like she has been run over by a mac truck and still wanted to go hang with her fellow firefighters at their firehouse.  LOL  Guess she is going to be just fine.  Swaping war stories and showing of the wounds like badges of honor.  They are a strange bunch, they are. LOL

  Tell hubby it says 01. 

[AZSunny]

Destiny, talk more about what is on the other side of the sword!

Warning:  More speculation...gut feeling...what better way to place very sophisticated underwater radar/sonar detection system...in an area with some of the World's greatest drug trafficking...and terrorist operations...than from a very sophisticated state of the art ship...pretty much equipped for that purpose....then come back later to retrieve data...all under the guise of a great humanitarian effort...which BTW it was a search for Natalee too....putting on Kevlar undies and running....

Damn, you are one good out of the box thinker!  Very feasible.  Interesting and very plausible. I think I am too focused on the obvious to have thought that far out.

[Magnolia]

Maybe the reason that the crew of Persistence isn't flying out until
tomorrow is that they were waiting for an official of the
US government to arrive to take the evidence that they have.
They just didn't expect such a high ranking official.

Persistence could not have cleared customs with the evidence.

Ocean was very clever at wording things.

ooh, didn't think about that -- "Diplomatic Pouch"

I was just thinking that very thing, Wreck.

.

and the plane is not leaving until "Monday" -- AFTER The Persistence officially leaves!! hmmmm

And if the remains have already been sent to VA for testing, what is in the diplomatic pouch that would need to be turned over to an official?? The pictures that Kyle was so upset about? 

Do we know that any "remains" have actually been sent to Quantico? I have heard about "fabric" only. Maybe that is the rub -- who gets to DNA test ? I bet Aruba doesn't want them examined. Could it be that the U.S. is finally doing a "Power Play"???

Yes!  I think that the FBI has been involved in this sea search all along.
That is why Ocean has been so tight lipped.
Persistence has always been "protected" as far as location since it left Louisiana.

[Destiny]

One more detail ....... the "security detail" for the occupant of the plane was granted permission to carry arms in Aruba.

Well Wreck...they are in Aruba...where bodies hang like ripe fruit on trees....

[Observer]

Posted by oceanexploration

It would be rotten of me to lurk and not comment about our departure.  I agree, it feels absolutely awkward leaving.  I know it seems there are more questions now than before the search even began.  The only comfort and comment I can affort is knowing that many questions will be answered in time.

As for the remaining targets:
There are between 100-200 targets yet to be explored.  Remember, we are searching for anything that could contain human remains, not just a fish trap. It's likely most of these remaining targets are simply debris or unimportant seabed features.  However, we originally set out to leave no stone unturned.  The plan is (as of today-plans do often change) to return to these targets once we've secured adequate funding with a dedicated ROV team on a different boat.  A different boat would be more efficient at running ROV operations both in terms of maneuvering and cost.

-The Aruban authorities do not know our target list, nor have the capability to investigate most of the targets.
-AF2 is on the Island.  To me this indicates Cheney is on the island, but I can't confirm this nor comment on the reason for the visit.
-The trap in question is significantly larger than Dr. Hodges reported dimensions from the fishermen huts owner.

I may not understand...but Mr. Schaeffer took on this task and he is a multimillionaire...why stop at one million?  Did he put a cap at one million?  I understand if multi means two...I can't imagine even having close to a million dollars...I feel so bad for Dave, Robin, Beth and Jug...they have been disappointed again...I hope no one takes this post as bad...but I feel that if someone takes on a task like this it should be completed...JMHO...

Imagine how the crew of the Persistence feels?.... very conflicted! But Mr. Scaeffer put in probably closer to 2 million by the time it is said and done.  The reason for this is because the search expanded once they got there.  They have now searched an area about 80% the entire size of Aruba in the ocean.  Bad weather slowed the process along with expanding the search.  Between what everyone donated as services and cuts in pay, other things, you are probably looking closer to 3 million overall.  The money has run out.  Donations may be coming in but they need a chunk to bring the ROV crew in and operate the ROV.  I am sure Kyle can tell you but the ROV is probably the most expensive piece of equipment needing to be used on a daily basis.  This way, if we raise the money, a boat and ROV can go in and look at the targets (since that part of the work is done) and in calm weather may be in and out in 3 weeks.  (This is the winter weather the Persistence has been experiencing which has hampered them).

Please do not take this as defeat.  Please continue to try and raise the funds so that another boat with an ROV can come in and look at those targets.  As of this date and time, it just cannot be the Persistence.  And trust me when I say the Persistence and crew definitely wanted to be the ones to bring Natalee home to her family. 

[texasmom]

WoW! Texasmom I am very proud of you!! Excellent!!

Thanks *******! I forgot to post this with it:

Response from President Bush:

On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence.

We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions.

Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot respond to every message.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

OK Bush Cheney and Who Else Did You Send Letters to....You Definitely Rock TM! 

I was actually trying to find Ross Perot's email address when I found the ones for the White House.  I know that the staff there would have access to Mr. Perot's among others.  My husband and I lived on and were the caretakers of a large ranch for the first 16 years of our marriage.  The owners were from Dallas originally and had retired to our area.  They have both passed on now, but we came to know many of their friends over the years that have the means to help financially.  Many have passed on also since most were in their retirement years when we came to know them but there were still a few that I mailed a similar request to (from my Christmas card list, lol).  I haven't heard anything back from them but I'm not sure that I would.  I think if they choose to help they will do it discretely and possibly anonymously.  I still have a couple that I don't have email or mailing address for that I am willing to personnally call if I need to.

You rock TexasMom!  Texans' hearts are as big and generous as the sixe of the state!  The Lone Star is a country -- not a state!

Thank you Ono!  I was away for a few hours so I'm catching up.

[jackb]

After spending hours trying to catch up, I'll just make a general comment:

Aruba is Screwed

Destiny........I agree with you about the photos

Odie is probably swearing Joran in as Vice-minister.  It is a requirement, it seems to be crazy and dirty as #@$# to be in office down there.   jackb

[Anna]

Well, it just makes no sense to continue to try to raise funds if in fact remains have been found.

I don't know what to think of any of this.  Much as we hate to do so, looks like we are in for yet more waiting.

Justice delayed is Justice denied.  I do hope the Arubans in charge understand that our mentality may be a bit different than the prevailing theories there that this will go away.  The longer we wait, the greater the demand and the more it will take to satisfy the demand for justice.

There was a time, long ago and far away, when Natalee's parents offered "just give her back" with no conditional justice but those days have long passed for most of us.  The more time that elapses and the greater the frustration that builds, the more it is going to take to ever achieve a balance.  I for one would no longer be content to just have the remains returned.  Not now, too late.

.

[AZLady]

Well, it just makes no sense to continue to try to raise funds if in fact remains have been found.

I don't know what to think of any of this.  Much as we hate to do so, looks like we are in for yet more waiting.

Justice delayed is Justice denied.  I do hope the Arubans in charge understand that our mentality may be a bit different than the prevailing theories there that this will go away.  The longer we wait, the greater the demand and the more it will take to satisfy the demand for justice.

There was a time, long ago and far away, when Natalee's parents offered "just give her back" with no conditional justice but those days have long passed for most of us.  The more time that elapses and the greater the frustration that builds, the more it is going to take to ever achieve a balance.  I for one would no longer be content to just have the remains returned.  Not now, too late.

.

I fully agree, Anna.  Justice needs to be served.  At this point, there is no turning back.  No scapegoats will be considered.  All perps must be brought to justice. 

[San]

Well, it just makes no sense to continue to try to raise funds if in fact remains have been found.

I don't know what to think of any of this.  Much as we hate to do so, looks like we are in for yet more waiting.

Justice delayed is Justice denied.  I do hope the Arubans in charge understand that our mentality may be a bit different than the prevailing theories there that this will go away.  The longer we wait, the greater the demand and the more it will take to satisfy the demand for justice.

There was a time, long ago and far away, when Natalee's parents offered "just give her back" with no conditional justice but those days have long passed for most of us.  The more time that elapses and the greater the frustration that builds, the more it is going to take to ever achieve a balance.  I for one would no longer be content to just have the remains returned.  Not now, too late.

.

I agree Anna.  Aruba has done too much damange just to ignore what happened if they turn over her body.  They tourtured Beth and Dave for almost 3 years.