Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08

[Maggie]

Anidac,
I am 25 minutes to Baltimore via the Baltimore Washington Parkway. What can I do to help? I am praying, of course.

[Maggie]

Anne Arundel County: MD 295 NORTH BTWN I-695 & I-895 
Type Location Direction Details
Incident
(Collision) Anne Arundel County
[MD 295 NORTH BTWN I-695 & I-895] North 2 vehicles involved.
2 of 2 Northbound traffic lanes closed.
2 of 2 Northbound shoulders closed.
Created: 2/29/2008 9:14:05 PM by SOC.

 http://www.chart.state.md.us/TravInfo/trafficEvents.asp

[klaasend]

I must admit that the resolution of your monitor makes a big difference. My new 21" monitor is 1680 x 1050 (analog). I see much more than I used to! How about you monkeys with digital?

21" monitor??  Geez, that's almost bigger than me    I feel insignificant now with my tiny 17" monitor. 

[klaasend]

Anidac,
I am 25 minutes to Baltimore via the Baltimore Washington Parkway. What can I do to help? I am praying, of course.

Maggie - all you can do is pray for Anidac's daughter and the others in the accident.  Anidac is on her way there now.  It's going to take her a while to get there.

[oceanexploration]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

   

[Maggie]

the accident is northbound between the baltimore beltway and the exit to the baltimore tunnel. all northbound lanes are closed, which means for someone in one of the collisions they're bringing a helicopter (they close all lanes for it to land).

the best info you can get is at http://www.chart.state.md.us/TravInfo/trafficCams.asp

[ShinkinMonk]

...reported it on Feb.26...the Persistance has found something has now been confirmed.  Human remains were found and these sent to the FBI lab in Quantico. The report came back this morning stating that the tests exclude Natalee Holloway. ...Then the thread title changed to 'fabric'...the original report does not match Tito's report... According to the OM statement, it was fabric found in the crab trap. Not human remains.

...I don't buy it.  Tim would not have called Dave for just fabric.  The pics we saw show a trap with more in it than just fabric.  The FBI are not telling Mos the results, other than the fabric is not what she wore on her last night in Aruba.  In other words, the FBI are not saying ANYTHING!  That's as it should be.


What gets me about this is that the peson reporting what they were seeing in the crab trap said they saw A HUMAN SKULL, that is a pretty specific thing to "see".  Granted, we humans have a natural pattern identification in our brains and the features of a human face is the most easily identified pattern.  So, in looking at a pattern of snow, lines, etc. it is possible someone would "see" a face (eyes, nose, mouth), but a "skull" ... I don't know, that seems very specific to me. 

[Destiny]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

Yeppers....and, a possible pair of shoes against the far end of the cage...above and to the right of skull...

[sandy leiva]

OT:  Okay friends, I need to ask for your help in calming down.  I just received one of those calls no one ever wants to get.  Some of you know one of my daughters is a firefighter/EMT.  The state police just call my husband (who is not at home with me) to say that our daughter was driving the ambulance when it flipped/rolled on the highway between DC and Baltimore.  The patiant and attendee are trapped in the back. My daughter's condition is unknown and the third EMT in the passanger side is okay but banged up.  They are anywhere from 1 - 2 hours from our home.  State police do not want us to go to the scene but will call us when they know where they will be taking her.  Said it could be an hour or more.

This trooper is standing right there.  Why is he saying her condition is unknow and insisting that we not come to the scene if they are going to be there that long?  This feels bad and I can't do a thing about it.

I hate to pour this out here and now but I have been close to some of you over time and we seem to help each other through tough times.  Please pray she is okay with me?

We are under attack!!!!

This ends here and now!

I will get on my knees for you and your daughter!

Who kneels with me?

   

praying that all will turn out ok ==sl

[wreck]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

   

Well, that is where I don't fully grasp your intentions. Why does it matter what we here "speculate" on? How are we ruining "objectivity"? We are not the "authorities". If YOU don't wish to speculate -- fine! We understand. You can tell us if we are WAY off base or say nothing.

[billb's daughter]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

   

OE,
I'll understand if you have no comment or no response to my reply:
My question for your consideration:
Is the trap in the pictures approximately 4ft X 5.5 ft X 17 in?
TIA...Your efforts and those of the Persistence are truly remarkable!

[casa]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

Yeppers....and, a possible pair of shoes against the far end of the cage...above and to the right of skull...

I thought people saw the tennis shoes in the drainage ditch with the bag that the body was in.  How are the shoes in the crab trap also? 

[Observer]

I think Janet will find this persons speculations interesting on the map she made. I have been told it is nearly impossible to launch a boat on that NE side of the island but it doesnt mean they couldnt drive in that direction. I don't put much thought into this persons speculations,just interesting is all about the location.




http://youtube.com/watch?v=yFh22feS4tY

[Bladerunner]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

   

Good point, but if everyone else takes this advice too then that means their observations would be known only to them. And who's objectivity would we be tainting I wonder??

Hmmmm...

 

No more crab cage speculation from me!!

[Destiny]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

   

Otay....will zip my widdle Monkey mouth shut...until you tell me to unzip it...K?   BTW...you really should say the same thing to all the posters on the front page. JMOO

ps,  Thank You and the rest of the crew for all your hard work.

[klaasend]

Oceanexplorer - is there anything else you'ld like to ask us not to discuss?

[Tamikosmom]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

I cannot see anything significant.  I squinted ... closed one eye and ... then the other.  I layed my head on one shoulder and ... then the other.  I put my chin in the air and looked down and ... then on my chest and looked up.  NOTHING.

However ... I do take some comfort ... I am not alone.  The Aruban and Persistance Dive Team gave the thumbs down when they reach the trap ... they did not see anything significant either.

Janet

+++++++++++

The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

<snipped>

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.
And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
 
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

<snipped>

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[bluwaters]

More accident news:
Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER

  ABC 7 News - Share Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER  ABC 7 News - Print Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER  ABC 7 News - Email Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER  ABC 7 News - RSS Feeds  ABC 7 News - Send Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER via Instant Messager
ABC 7 News - Share This Article
An ambulance overturned on I-295 Friday night, sending a total of seven people to area hospitals, including four to shock trauma.

It happened at the Baltimore/Anne Arundel County line Friday night.

Fire officials say of the seven patients taken to area hospital, four were sent to a trauma center and three were sent to the University of Maryland Emergency Department. All have non-life threatening injuries.

The crash involved a private ambulance, a car and an SUV.

It happened in the northbound lanes, shutting them down.

Maryland State Police are investigating.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0208/500334.html
There is a photo of the ambulance here as well.
Sounds OK, still praying here

[oceanexploration]

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

   

Otay....will zip my widdle Monkey mouth shut...until you tell me to unzip it...K?   BTW...you really should say the same thing to all the posters on the front page. JMOO

ps,  Thank You and the rest of the crew for all your hard work.

Please don't misunderstand me... I'm not saying be quiet.  I obviously don't care if it's discussed.  I was just trying to throw out a tip for making unbiased observation.
It's like an ink blot test.  9 different people can look at the same ink blot and see 9 different images.  The best imagination of the bunch will end up winning and the majority after discussion will see the same image in the ink blot. 

[Bladerunner]

Well, how abou twe study this picture. The more I look at it, the more I just realy like this little guy! Especially with that bad ass chain he's sporting.