Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08

[Destiny]

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

...........
OK, so then why was this released or posted on a public board ?
..................
Guess you can tell I am in a mood. Feel like there is a kat and mousie game going on here. DNA, then fabric, still no real clarification, now a picture is posted where WE are ruining objectivity by discussing what we see ? This is a public place place open to anyone in the world who has an internet connection ! Ok, I won't tell a soul what I see. So there................ I will find some inkblots or tea leaves to look at ...........   

That's funny....I'd laugh...but my widdle Monkey mouth is zipped shut...may I look at tea leaves with you...we can discuss what we *see* in them...

[wreck]

I know that my opinion is worth nothing here as I  do not come up with wild theories but I think we should all wait until the people on the Persistance give us some DEFINITE information.  They are the ones in the trenches doing the dirty work, not us.  We should let them tell us when it is time and not feel entitled to know every move they make.  Yes we are here to support the family and find justice for Natalee but we should let the experts do their work and not try not to speculate.

Seems to me the people on the Persistence are getting ready to go home.  We are just wondering why all the hullabaloo. We aren't asking them for every move they make, we aren't insisting that Kyle give us answers, we're simply discussing it.  Isn't that ok?

y want

I am sure they are not heading home because they want to.  This type of operation takes money and if the money is not there they cannot continue.  Discussion is one thing but posting theories that have NO basis in truth is another.  When we come up with things that are not based on fact and others here run with it, it makes us no better than other sites not so sympathetic to the family.  I think we need to stick to the FACTS and let those who know what they are doing do their work.  None of us here are detectives, CSI, or DNA experts. 

Well casa, in all due respect -- speculating, theorizing, researching, and postulating is exactly why we are all here. Throw a million ideas against the wall and odds are -- one will stick. Putting your faith in one avenue is pure folley. The power of each of us putting our "wild theories" out there can only help. We analyze, examine, and argue -- that is how the truth comes out!

Nothing wrong with discussion and analyzing.  Yes, putting your faith in one avenue might be folley but that could also apply to those that only put their faith in the fact that Joran and the Kalpoes had something to do with the disappearance of Natalee. (I do think they did by the way) Discussion and analyzing is very different than making up theories and seeing things that might not be there.  Trust me wreck no one on this  blog or any other will be the one to solve this case.  The truth will not come out by people posting theories about what they think when they are not there searching or actually seeing what is going on.  We are here to support the family and those searching for answers not to cause problems for those working to find an answer.

I guess we will just agree to disagree then. I can only speak for myself -- but I'm not here merely to be a cheerleader or to be a "yes man." Many here are doing research and analysis that the "experts" never thought of. I don't put myself anywhere near that stature -- but I have followed this case enough to call bullshit on some of the work by the "experts." Second, this case is so bizarre -- NEVER assume we are getting the actual facts from anyone. I say: let's leave NO stone unturned no matter how "far fetched"  an idea might be.

[klaasend]

Casa - that is over and done with.  Robin made a mistake, they should never have been posted on the internet at all.  Nothing is safe on the internet.  I'm sure the Admins of BNH are aware of that.  I actually wonder if they weren't posted intentionally so they would get out.  That said they can't be retracted now.

[jackb]

I think Ocean Ex sounds like a very good man who has been working extremely long hours, away from home, in not so good working conditions, busting his ass to accomplish what all of us have been working towards, finding answers for Beth. I think he is the kind of guy who went as far as possible, maybe even took a risk, trying to share his findings only to have it backfire, just a little bit. I think he is the kind of guy that you are proud and relieved to see him standing shoulder to shoulder with you when you are engaged in a fight for your life. I think he is the kind of guy that we all should salute and say, "job well done, and we appreciate you." Like I have said many many times before, he is the kind of guy who is an actual "modern day hero."

That said, I feel like I can take those same words, and substitute Red in for Ocean, and mean the same thoughts. Both contributions reflect 100% effort and have hugely and significantly helped someone whom I am especially fond of, and as a result I will be forever in debt to both. Different contributions, but both just as important. And that same thought process applies to every SM and every supporter. People contribute what they can, based upon different skills, situations, and circumstances.

But all together, they make a damn formidable army that has the guilty shaking in their boots. Only God could have assembled this army, and it is an amazing sight to behold.

Back!

I would lay down my life for any one of you here, as I am sure you would for me.  Eagles don't flock.

You have to find them one at a time!

I think God might have brought this flock of Eagles together. That spirit is what makes this group so special. I have 2 old walnut trees that are living on the edge if prices don't go down:)

There is no doubt in my mind!

If you decide to harvest that wood, I would be more than happy to help you with it.  God will tell you what to do with it.  I wish I could share the story of this wood with you.

Did you know that walnut gets a more intense red (almost purple!) the closer you get to the roots?  Just like our blood!

O/T and I will quit after this, there was a man here who got $3000 for one tree that is when I started telling mine goodbye

Your trees love you.  Go hug one and not with a saw.   LOL  Seriously though, they do love you.    Er....that sounds a mite strange.  lol.

[klaasend]

Wreck - I agree

[jackb]

Well, how abou twe study this picture. The more I look at it, the more I just realy like this little guy! Especially with that bad ass chain he's sporting.

LOL-- "SilverFox" has been using that as his Avatar for quite awhile -- deadringer for "Larry King"!!!

Er...Is he running for President?  He sort of looks like that old time comedian George Burns.     lol   Jack b

[Kermit]

Thanks Klaasend.  That makes sense. 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong... but by my understanding, officially speaking any plane or helicopter which contains the President of the US is called Air Force One and with the Vice President... Air Force Two.  Again, I would google/wiki-it to be certain.   

~K

You have it exactly right. Any aircraft with the President  aboard is automatically "Air Force One." The Vice President's aircraft is automatically "Air Force 2". If the Vice President is not aboard -- it does not carry the designation "Air Force 2." Also, by law - the President and Vice President cannot ever travel on the same plane.

Incorrect.

The plane that carries the President or the Vice President is "Air Force One."

[texasmom]

WoW! Texasmom I am very proud of you!! Excellent!!

Thanks *******! I forgot to post this with it:

Response from President Bush:

On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence.

We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions.

Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot respond to every message.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

OK Bush Cheney and Who Else Did You Send Letters to....You Definitely Rock TM! 

I was actually trying to find Ross Perot's email address when I found the ones for the White House.  I know that the staff there would have access to Mr. Perot's among others.  My husband and I lived on and were the caretakers of a large ranch for the first 16 years of our marriage.  The owners were from Dallas originally and had retired to our area.  They have both passed on now, but we came to know many of their friends over the years that have the means to help financially.  Many have passed on also since most were in their retirement years when we came to know them but there were still a few that I mailed a similar request to (from my Christmas card list, lol).  I haven't heard anything back from them but I'm not sure that I would.  I think if they choose to help they will do it discretely and possibly anonymously.  I still have a couple that I don't have email or mailing address for that I am willing to personnally call if I need to.

[wreck]

Thanks Klaasend.  That makes sense. 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong... but by my understanding, officially speaking any plane or helicopter which contains the President of the US is called Air Force One and with the Vice President... Air Force Two.  Again, I would google/wiki-it to be certain.   

~K

You have it exactly right. Any aircraft with the President  aboard is automatically "Air Force One." The Vice President's aircraft is automatically "Air Force 2". If the Vice President is not aboard -- it does not carry the designation "Air Force 2." Also, by law - the President and Vice President cannot ever travel on the same plane.

Incorrect.

The plane that carries the President or the Vice President is "Air Force One."

Why am I arguing with everyone tonight??? LOL
From Wikipedia:

Air Force One is the air traffic control call sign of any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the President of the United States.[1] Since 1990, the presidential fleet has consisted of two specifically configured, highly customized Boeing 747-200B series aircraft - tail codes 28000 and 29000 - with Air Force designation VC-25A. While these aircraft are referred to as Air Force One only while the president is on board, the term is commonly used to describe either of the two aircraft normally used and maintained by the U.S. Air Force solely for the president.

When the president needs to fly to locations that have runways too short for the VC-25A, a Boeing C-32 is used instead; the Lockheed C-140 Jetstar was also used in this role, notably by Ronald Reagan.

An Air Force aircraft carrying the Vice President of the United States is designated as Air Force Two.

[Observer]

Thanks Klaasend.  That makes sense. 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong... but by my understanding, officially speaking any plane or helicopter which contains the President of the US is called Air Force One and with the Vice President... Air Force Two.  Again, I would google/wiki-it to be certain.   

~K

You have it exactly right. Any aircraft with the President  aboard is automatically "Air Force One." The Vice President's aircraft is automatically "Air Force 2". If the Vice President is not aboard -- it does not carry the designation "Air Force 2." Also, by law - the President and Vice President cannot ever travel on the same plane.

Incorrect.

The plane that carries the President or the Vice President is "Air Force One."

An Air Force aircraft carrying the Vice President of the United States is designated as Air Force Two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One

[klaasend]

Thanks Klaasend.  That makes sense. 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong... but by my understanding, officially speaking any plane or helicopter which contains the President of the US is called Air Force One and with the Vice President... Air Force Two.  Again, I would google/wiki-it to be certain.   

~K

You have it exactly right. Any aircraft with the President  aboard is automatically "Air Force One." The Vice President's aircraft is automatically "Air Force 2". If the Vice President is not aboard -- it does not carry the designation "Air Force 2." Also, by law - the President and Vice President cannot ever travel on the same plane.

Incorrect.

The plane that carries the President or the Vice President is "Air Force One."

Air Force Two
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
 
The Boeing C-32, a variant of the 757, is the usual transportation for the Vice President of the United States.
Vice President Dick Cheney using a Boeing VC-25 presidential aircraft for a visit to the Middle East in 2002.Air Force Two is the air traffic control call sign used by any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the Vice President. (snipped)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Two

[hotping]

WoW! Texasmom I am very proud of you!! Excellent!!

Thanks *******! I forgot to post this with it:

Response from President Bush:

On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence.

We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions.

Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot respond to every message.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

OK Bush Cheney and Who Else Did You Send Letters to....You Definitely Rock TM! 

I was actually trying to find Ross Perot's email address when I found the ones for the White House.  I know that the staff there would have access to Mr. Perot's among others.  My husband and I lived on and were the caretakers of a large ranch for the first 16 years of our marriage.  The owners were from Dallas originally and had retired to our area.  They have both passed on now, but we came to know many of their friends over the years that have the means to help financially.  Many have passed on also since most were in their retirement years when we came to know them but there were still a few that I mailed a similar request to (from my Christmas card list, lol).  I haven't heard anything back from them but I'm not sure that I would.  I think if they choose to help they will do it discretely and possibly anonymously.  I still have a couple that I don't have email or mailing address for that I am willing to personnally call if I need to.

God Bless You for Your Great Efforts.......Truly...Your letters are EXCELLENT!

[Observer]

Why am I arguing with everyone tonight??? LOL

Your arguing with some interesting people tonight wreck 

[jackb]

Um, is it dove hunting season on Aruba?
 

Yup hopefully he takes Paulus out for some Dove Hunting 

Yeap.  That Palus azz looks like a good target.  lol

[klaasend]

Found a closup pic of the plane's cockpit 

[casa]

Casa - So it's ok for us to discuss things but not certain things?  I'm not sure I understand. 

This is a discussion forum.  It is not just a forum to support the family although we do. I don't think we are going to solve the case but we have certainly helped gather data for the family to share with their investigators.

I'm not sure what you would like to see us do?  You want members to stop by once daily and say "they stand with the girl" then leave?

The only thing I would like is for all of us to be a support system for the family. What has bothered me for a long time is the wild speculations that have made many people lose respect for a place that used to have that respect.  Klaas you know that I have been here a long time.  I introduced a certain member of Natalee's family to the board.  The alienation of old members and the embracing of new members with wild theories is what bothers me. yes, new people should be accepted but the old member should not be excluded because they do not agree with the new theories.  The nasty e mails to once faithful members who have lost faith in this place because of things that have happened bother me.  The nasty remarks to some who choose to gather other places bothers me.  This should not be a place where people are bashed for disagreeing.  It should be a place for supporting the family and a discussion of the facts of the case.  When we get into wild speculations and name calling we turn into another blog that we all know of.  It should not be a place where we are insulted because the crew of the Persistance didn't tell us something.  They have a job to do and we should let them do it.  The way people have reacted to the picture posted is a prime example of why the Persistance should not give out information.  People take it and run like crazy to all sorts of crazy conclusions.

[Magnolia]

Reckon they will sleep on the plane or go check into the Holiday Inn?

[wreck]

Thanks Klaasend.  That makes sense. 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong... but by my understanding, officially speaking any plane or helicopter which contains the President of the US is called Air Force One and with the Vice President... Air Force Two.  Again, I would google/wiki-it to be certain.   

~K

You have it exactly right. Any aircraft with the President  aboard is automatically "Air Force One." The Vice President's aircraft is automatically "Air Force 2". If the Vice President is not aboard -- it does not carry the designation "Air Force 2." Also, by law - the President and Vice President cannot ever travel on the same plane.

Incorrect.

The plane that carries the President or the Vice President is "Air Force One."

Air Force Two
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
 
The Boeing C-32, a variant of the 757, is the usual transportation for the Vice President of the United States.
Vice President Dick Cheney using a Boeing VC-25 presidential aircraft for a visit to the Middle East in 2002.Air Force Two is the air traffic control call sign used by any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the Vice President. (snipped)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Two

Come to think of it -- the picture of the plane that landed in Aruba tonight looks like the OLD 707 which USED to be "Air Force One". The Vice President now flies a 757 -- so it probaly is not Cheney ther but another high ranking U.S. official.

[hotping]

Reckon they will sleep on the plane or go check into the Holiday Inn?

DA Plane Da Plane! 

[Observer]

Found a closup pic of the plane's cockpit 

Klaas you are amazing with your software..That settles it,Cheney is in Aruba!!