Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08

[Destiny]

Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that.  Then later, it was left off the end.

And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing.  The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.

jmo

.

I'm wondering if more of the fabric was found than what we saw?

Good point Klaas.

I find it odd that the FBI would be testing the fabric found against a "sample" of fabric that was similar to what Natalee was wearing. Even if it was a match, the evidenciary value would be pretty low, legally speaking.

But the investigative value would be immense

Indeed, but I guess the big question is what material does the FBI have that they are using for the baseline comparison test? I would argue that somehow a piece of the fabric found by the ranger made it into their hands as "evidence".

IF...that were the case...then there might also be DNA evidence on said scrap of cloth...hmmmmmm

Makes me wonder even more about the DNA samples that Karin was hand delivering to forensic experts in NL...but wait...judge ordered those destroyed on some trumped up legal loophole.

[Destiny]

Anidac...Thank You so very much for the *good* news about your Dear Daughter.  She sounds so Brave and Caring...Continued Prayers for rapid recovery...

[KarmaRoundUp]

I totally remember watching the original video of this and seeing the searcher wipe his face with the peice of cloth.....as I yelled at my tv.
 

And our trusted and beloved poster 'bondia' told us that the 'searcher' holding the cloth was a Mansur. I have the post saved somewhere.

Based on bondia's track record and their complicitness in the cover up (hard to tell which psycho was actually posting, tho) I wonder who the 'searcher' really was.

Sure would like to ask the searcher a question or two.

?

I didn't know bondia was anyones"beloved"
I think,if I recall correctly,that the searcher was from the national park reserve or something like that.I don't think he was part of ALE.Wasn't that around the time they found the duct tape and hairs?

Thank you Sharon
Bondia=Glenda=renHO right?
I don't think it matters what the name of the searcher is.Besides,weren't we all told how common everybodies last name is on aruba?Did Jossy ever comment on this cloth?

[Blonde]

Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that.  Then later, it was left off the end.

And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing.  The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.

jmo

.

I'm wondering if more of the fabric was found than what we saw?

Good point Klaas.

I find it odd that the FBI would be testing the fabric found against a "sample" of fabric that was similar to what Natalee was wearing. Even if it was a match, the evidenciary value would be pretty low, legally speaking.

But the investigative value would be immense

Indeed, but I guess the big question is what material does the FBI have that they are using for the baseline comparison test? I would argue that somehow a piece of the fabric found by the ranger made it into their hands as "evidence".

That is mine also ,what material does the FBI have that they are using for the baseline comparison test?

[San]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.  

I guess I dont understand.  Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?

No, I am not saying anything except a little boat could be used for a little trap but a huge trap would require a much larger boat.  The size of the trap would likely reflect the size of the boat used for placing it.  It wouldn't fit on a really small boat.

.

In my opinion a trap that size was not in the fishermans huts.  So now where was the trap.

Steve Croes got fired from the Tatoo.  Could he have used the Tatoo boat for a trap like that.  Could a trap like that be tied to a boat and be pulled out to sea.  Just thinking here.

[Nut44x4]

Well, how abou twe study this picture. The more I look at it, the more I just realy like this little guy! Especially with that bad ass chain he's sporting.

LOL-- "SilverFox" has been using that as his Avatar for quite awhile -- deadringer for "Larry King"!!!

Dear God in Heaven...HE DOES LOOK LIKE LARRY KING!!! omggggg  . All this time seeing him as SilverFox's avy, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but THAT's IT! He needs some suspenders 

[klaasend]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.   

I guess I dont understand.  Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?

Don't remember exactly who posted it yesterday/night...but there was some buzz going on regarding the bost/ship from the Aruba-Bay video...it was I think Rob who brought it to our attention....as others have said....there is a *reason* that boat/ship is in that video...jmoo

Moringing Monkeys!

Arub-bay video "smallmovie11620051" uploaded to the aru-bay site on 6/11/2005.  This was the first of the series showing the area around the rocks. Click on the photo below to watch the video.

[blah]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.  

I guess I dont understand.  Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?

No, I am not saying anything except a little boat could be used for a little trap but a huge trap would require a much larger boat.  The size of the trap would likely reflect the size of the boat used for placing it.  It wouldn't fit on a really small boat.

.

In my opinion a trap that size was not in the fishermans huts.  So now where was the trap.

Steve Croes got fired from the Tatoo.  Could he have used the Tatoo boat for a trap like that.  Could a trap like that be tied to a boat and be pulled out to sea.  Just thinking here.

Why could it not have been at the fishermans huts?  It could have been kept outside.

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/03/01/is-vice-president-dick-cheney-in-aruba-air-force-2-lands-in-aruba-us-homeland-security-hugo-chavez/

Is Vice President Dick Cheney in Aruba? Air Force 2 Lands in Aruba … US Homeland Security & Hugo Chavez?

[texasmom]

Good Morning Everyone!

So glad to find that Anidac's daughter will be o.k., she sounds like a very brave girl, I will keep her in my prayers while she recovers.

I remember from the Hodges interview of the fisherman from the huts that the trap that was taken was actually outside of the huts, I tried to find the statements last night.  I remember them talking about the rust stains in the grass where the trap had been.

Klaas, you did VERY WELL last night, no apologies needed.  I probably shouldn't have made the one comment I did, but I could tell I was next since there were very few left here to attack. 

So many of you who responded to last nights drama made many good points! 

I never could get page 27 to load, tried everything....odd.

[private eye]

Well, how abou twe study this picture. The more I look at it, the more I just realy like this little guy! Especially with that bad ass chain he's sporting.

LOL-- "SilverFox" has been using that as his Avatar for quite awhile -- deadringer for "Larry King"!!!

Dear God in Heaven...HE DOES LOOK LIKE LARRY KING!!! omggggg  . All this time seeing him as SilverFox's avy, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but THAT's IT! He needs some suspenders 

He appears a little more attentive than Larry King

[KarmaRoundUp]

are there better pictures than the ones posted on the front page?

Yes here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.msg355959#msg355959

Does anyone know what area these pics were from?Did Tim from Eqqusearch ever scan this same area?Just wondering......

Tim was with the ocean search when these pics were taken, is my understanding.  It's about 90 feet of water.  The location is described further in the Dateline show.  Check the media thread and you can read the transcript and view the show in segments.

Thank you AZLady
I will check it out but what I meant was:
Back in 2005 did Tim check out this same area(or around the same area)with his side sonar?If anyone knows?

[San]

Right, Private Eye,

I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.

Blah just doesn't understand.  

I guess I dont understand.  Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?

No, I am not saying anything except a little boat could be used for a little trap but a huge trap would require a much larger boat.  The size of the trap would likely reflect the size of the boat used for placing it.  It wouldn't fit on a really small boat.

.

In my opinion a trap that size was not in the fishermans huts.  So now where was the trap.

Steve Croes got fired from the Tatoo.  Could he have used the Tatoo boat for a trap like that.  Could a trap like that be tied to a boat and be pulled out to sea.  Just thinking here.

Why could it not have been at the fishermans huts?  It could have been kept outside.

I was just thinking because they said the huts were broken into.  The huts are small.

{Edited to add a picture of the huts:}

Fisherman’s Huts – Area of beach just north of the Marriott called Hadicuri beach where there are several small huts with individual doors and overhanging roofs.  This is where Joran alleges he called Deepak to pick him up and where Joran claims he left Natalee.

[sharon]

Just to clarify the post---

"What did I miss -- what did a Mansur do?"  was poster 'stef'. She inadvertantly inserted her comment in the middle of Bondia's post.

Glad you have that screen capture    I remember that as if it were yesterday. 

Me, too 

[Bearlyhere]

Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that.  Then later, it was left off the end.

And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing.  The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.

jmo

.

I'm wondering if more of the fabric was found than what we saw?

Good point Klaas.

I find it odd that the FBI would be testing the fabric found against a "sample" of fabric that was similar to what Natalee was wearing. Even if it was a match, the evidenciary value would be pretty low, legally speaking.

But the investigative value would be immense

Indeed, but I guess the big question is what material does the FBI have that they are using for the baseline comparison test? I would argue that somehow a piece of the fabric found by the ranger made it into their hands as "evidence".

That is mine also ,what material does the FBI have that they are using for the baseline comparison test?

IMU (It's my understanding), Beth provided it to them.

[Tamikosmom]

Part 4 of the follow YouTube download of the Dateline program pertains to the dive.

Janet

+++++++++++++
 
DATELINE - FEBRUARY 22, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qPcVNZOp4tI&feature=related
Part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D-uzUb1SxKA&feature=related
Part 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WkQ10zKh4S0&feature=related
Part 3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5B0t2cyGzs&feature=related
Part 4

+++++++++++++++

The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/2/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/3/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

[AZSunny]

Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that.  Then later, it was left off the end.

And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing.  The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.

jmo

.

Anna,  one of things that always concerned me in that tape is the fabric flying away in the wind.  Fish netting is pretty heavy and I can not imagine it flying that effortlessly in the wind.  A lighter fabric, such as Natalees blouce would have easily flown in the breeze.

[sharon]

Dompig blamed Raytheon for the bad radar equipment and said they got new equipment from Denmark.

I remeber that too.

And I remember the radar being deemed 'non effective' for heck of alot longer than just june 07. I remember reading that the radar was unreliable for small boats -- until the Raytheon equipment was replaced.

Do you remember that too, Rob (glad you are feeling better  )

Does anyone else remember that?? I believe it was a quote from dumpig.

[San]

Dompig blamed Raytheon for the bad radar equipment and said they got new equipment from Denmark.

I remeber that too.

And I remember the radar being deemed 'non effective' for heck of alot longer than just june 07. I remember reading that the radar was unreliable for small boats -- until the Raytheon equipment was replaced.

Do you remember that too, Rob (glad you are feeling better  )

Does anyone else remember that?? I believe it was a quote from dumpig.

I believe he said that on the 48 hours special.

[private eye]

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.